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Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 12 2008,14:46) Hi Mrs,
The Holy Spirit is a teacher.
Nick If the Holy Spirit told Him or not, but He did know that He preexisted.Peace and Love Mrs.
Hi Nick,
You asked:
Did his origins have any impact on his nature, his mission or his ministry?
If they did we cannot follow him.My response:
I do not know whether they did or not but I don't think that I would put Jesus in the “box” that one's limited understandings want to put Him in. He is who He is. We can trust that He WAS made like His brethren in ALL things, all necessary things. See below:Heb 2:17-18
17 Therefore, He had to be made like His brethren in all things, so that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. 18 For since He Himself was tempted in that which He has suffered, He is able to come to the aid of those who are tempted.
NASUWe are to follow Him, whatever the answer is to your question, yes or no. It says so in God's Word.
John 12:26
26 “If anyone serves Me, he must follow Me; and where I am, there My servant will be also; if anyone serves Me, the Father will honor him.
NASUIf you decide that the particulars of Jesus does not suit you and you cannot follow Him, then the alternative is to follow satan. You can't win that way. His team has already been defeated.
1 Tim 5:15
15 for some have already turned aside to follow Satan.
NASUDear Mrs.
The Father taught Him what He needed to know about. He grew in wisdom.
Luke 2:5252 And Jesus kept increasing in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men.
NASUJohn 8:28-30
I do nothing on My own initiative, but I speak these things as the Father taught Me. 29 “And He who sent Me is with Me; He has not left Me alone, for I always do the things that are pleasing to Him.”
NASUHi LU,
One popular modern religion is the worship of Jesus as a great god, at the expense of his Father.
It is a natural progression from the trinity heresy.But as the vine he is more like to the branch than the Gardener.
Hi LU,
It is the basis of trinity belief that Jesus is equal to his Father.
Abhor such insults to God.Hi Nick,
I agree. As I understand the Bible, the Son would never want to be thought of as equal to the Father. I am curious what religion you are talking about?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 11 2008,08:27) Hi martian,
Is it not the greeks that demand that all is rational and functional?
That is another silly cop out.
God ask us to reason with him. And the Hebrew of functionality concept is so far from the Greek thinking as to be in another realm.Quote (seek and you will find @ Mar. 12 2008,14:29) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 12 2008,11:27) Hi Nick,
I am a mere woman, correct. I am a mere woman without a past existence and history before conception Jesus was a man but He was a man with a past existence and history. That is not the same, in fact, BIG, difference. However, He was born without memory of His past.
Have a question for you, if Jesus did not have a memory of His past how could He say what He did inJohn 17:5″ And now, O Father glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
He knew where He came from and knew what was at stake if He would fail. That is why He did not. Otherwise Him just being a mere man would have sinned. In every other aspect He was just like us.
Peace and Love Mrs.
John 17:5″ And now, O Father glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.What was with God before the world was? The glory for Jesus. We also have glory set aside for us, that does not mean that we were there before the world was.
The plan for the Messiah was with God from the beginning. Glory was fortold to be his when his work was done. Jesus know this and asked for that Glory at the appropriate time.
Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 12 2008,15:58) Hi Nick, You asked:
Did his origins have any impact on his nature, his mission or his ministry?
If they did we cannot follow him.My response:
I do not know whether they did or not but I don't think that I would put Jesus in the “box” that one's limited understandings want to put Him in. He is who He is. We can trust that He WAS made like His brethren in ALL things, all necessary things. See below:Heb 2:17-18
17 Therefore, He had to be made like His brethren in all things, so that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. 18 For since He Himself was tempted in that which He has suffered, He is able to come to the aid of those who are tempted.
NASUWe are to follow Him, whatever the answer is to your question, yes or no. It says so in God's Word.
John 12:26
26 “If anyone serves Me, he must follow Me; and where I am, there My servant will be also; if anyone serves Me, the Father will honor him.
NASUIf you decide that the particulars of Jesus does not suit you and you cannot follow Him, then the alternative is to follow satan. You can't win that way. His team has already been defeated.
1 Tim 5:15
15 for some have already turned aside to follow Satan.
NASU
Yopu do not understand faith. The literal meaning of faith is to work toward the will of God. To take action toward the will of God. If the things Jesus did are left in question as to an advantage he might or might not have then how can we honestly believe a mystery to work toward?
Your doctrine confuses the issue and God is not the author of confusion. That leaves in question “Who is the author of your doctrine?”Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 12 2008,11:27) Hi Nick,
I am a mere woman, correct. I am a mere woman without a past existence and history before conception Jesus was a man but He was a man with a past existence and history. That is not the same, in fact, BIG, difference. However, He was born without memory of His past.
Do you just make this up as you go along? What happened to his memories? Please tell me a clear scripture that states that Jesus had his memory wiped out before being born on Earth?Quote (martian @ Mar. 13 2008,02:37) Quote (seek and you will find @ Mar. 12 2008,14:29) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 12 2008,11:27) Hi Nick,
I am a mere woman, correct. I am a mere woman without a past existence and history before conception Jesus was a man but He was a man with a past existence and history. That is not the same, in fact, BIG, difference. However, He was born without memory of His past.
Have a question for you, if Jesus did not have a memory of His past how could He say what He did inJohn 17:5″ And now, O Father glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
He knew where He came from and knew what was at stake if He would fail. That is why He did not. Otherwise Him just being a mere man would have sinned. In every other aspect He was just like us.
Peace and Love Mrs.
John 17:5″ And now, O Father glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.What was with God before the world was? The glory for Jesus. We also have glory set aside for us, that does not mean that we were there before the world was.
The plan for the Messiah was with God from the beginning. Glory was fortold to be his when his work was done. Jesus know this and asked for that Glory at the appropriate time.
martian……..this is right on, these people who come up with the preexistence doctrines don't have a single verse that absolute says by Jesus or anyone else that Jesus preexisted. Jesus only existed in the plan and Will of God before he was born. He was the first completed man to image the Father a prototype of all of us when God is finished with us, He was simple the first. They have to torque the words to make it come out a different way. They do not want to see Jesus as a ordinary Human being, WHO GOD PERFECTED during his life on earth, even though scripture show that was the case. They don't want to believe that God is in total control of all His creation and man is in a creating process and the out come will be Just the same as Jesus. (the image of God).IMO……gene
Dear Gene and Martian,
Gene wrote:
martian……..this is right on, these people who come up with the preexistence doctrines don't have a single verse that absolute says by Jesus or anyone else that Jesus preexisted. Jesus only existed in the plan and Will of God before he was born.My response:
Heb 1:8-10
8 But of the Son He says,
“YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER,
AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM.
9 “YOU HAVE LOVED RIGHTEOUSNESS AND HATED LAWLESSNESS;
THEREFORE GOD, YOUR GOD, HAS ANOINTED YOU
WITH THE OIL OF GLADNESS ABOVE YOUR COMPANIONS.”10 And,
“YOU, LORD, IN THE BEGINNING LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH,
AND THE HEAVENS ARE THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS;
NASU
Perhaps you missed that last verse, here it is again:10 And,
“YOU, LORD, IN THE BEGINNING LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH,
AND THE HEAVENS ARE THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS;
NASUThat is talking about the Son of God in case you were confused.
Martian wrote:
John 17:5″ And now, O Father glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.What was with God before the world was? The glory for Jesus. We also have glory set aside for us, that does not mean that we were there before the world was.
And Gene writes:
They have to torque the words to make it come out a different way.Dear Gene and Martian,
Martian wrote:
John 17:5″ And now, O Father glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
Martian continues:
What was with God before the world was? The glory for Jesus. We also have glory set aside for us, that does not mean that we were there before the world was.And Gene writes:
They have to torque the words to make it come out a different way.Martian just torqued the words that clearly say “which I had with You” to try to mean something like “which you had for me” or “which was set aside for me”.
Martian and Gene, I just gave you an example of Gene “torquing the words to make it come out a different way.' The very thing you complain about others doing.
I like to add a couple of Scriptures that are so important and show that Jesus preexsistred before the world was.
Col. 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, THE FIRSTBORN OVER ALL CREATION.
verse 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are in earth…….
verse 17 And He is before all things and in Him all things consist.
He did not only preexisted His birth to Maria, but He also was the firstborn of the dead.
verse 18 And He is the head of the Church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the death, that in all He will have preeminence. If you don't know what preeminence means it means first in all.
Pretty clear scriptures that Jesus did preexist.
Peace and Love Mrs.
Gene and Martian,
I'm sorry,
I said:
I just gave you an example of Gene “torquing the words to make it come out a different way.' The very thing you complain about others doing.I meant to say:
I just gave you an example of Martian “torquing the words to make it come out a different way.' The very thing you complain about others doing.Dear Mrs.,
Good post!
Col 1:17 And He is before all things
That refers to the Son of God there too, Gene and Martian.Lightenup……. The Glory Jesus had with the fathers before the beginnings of the world was is the planned Glory God had for Jesus before He every came into existence. People who believe in man's self salvation by their (Free Will) choices don't like to think that God does call and cause things to work in accordance with His own Will. He predestened Jesus to the Glory He has, Churches don't want you to see or believe that they want you to think it all up to you and so they invented another God or a preexistence being instead of believing the God is in complete control of everything including their as well as Jesus' salvation.
IMO…….gene
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