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Quote When Jesus spoke of being with the Father he was speaking of his exixtence before he was born a man. Therfore he was speaking of his existence before he was a Son.
WJ;
Are you saying the God can only have a Son in the flesh. Jesus said he was with the Father prior as you know. Your contention that he can only have a son in the flesh contravenes what Jesus taught. Your denial of his pre-existence as the Son of God is apparent and results in you rejecting the gospel of John in many respects to accompany what you believe.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 04 2008,17:58) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 04 2008,11:37) Hi WJ, Numbers 23:19
God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?So scripture says God is not a man.
God is not a son of man, so not The Son of man.
So how can you say our living God is the son of Man?Christ was in the form of God.
Surely you know the form of God?Yet the Son is the same yesterday, today and forever.
NHYes the Eternal Spirit of Jesus who was and is the ressurection and the life, is the same yesterday, today and forever.
He is the Alpha and Omega, the beginning of all things and the end of all things as we presently know it.
Was not God in the flesh?
I simply believe the scriptures and you dont!
Hi WJ,
So the Spirit of Jesus is not the Holy Spirit?
So which spirit is referred to here?Romans 8:11
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 05 2008,08:43) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 04 2008,17:58) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 04 2008,11:37) Hi WJ, Numbers 23:19
God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?So scripture says God is not a man.
God is not a son of man, so not The Son of man.
So how can you say our living God is the son of Man?Christ was in the form of God.
Surely you know the form of God?Yet the Son is the same yesterday, today and forever.
NHYes the Eternal Spirit of Jesus who was and is the ressurection and the life, is the same yesterday, today and forever.
He is the Alpha and Omega, the beginning of all things and the end of all things as we presently know it.
Was not God in the flesh?
I simply believe the scriptures and you dont!
Hi WJ,
So the Spirit of Jesus is not the Holy Spirit?
So which spirit is referred to here?Romans 8:11
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
You know maybe if you ask it right you might get an answer. “You mean the breath that animates Jesus and gives him life is not the breath of God?”It is the breath of God that gives us all life. Jesus prayed that we might have life and life more abundantly. This was in fact nearly the same prayer as when He told them to recieve the special breath (Holy Spirit). The only difference between Jesus and us was that he had the fullness of that breath in him. He did not block it or reject it as we often do. He had no sin to stand in the way and no self condemnation to tell him he was not worthy of all that God had for him.
Jesus was and is the perfect Temple for God to dwell in. We too are to be Temples in which God can dwell. Our obligation is to help God build that temple in us, not of wood hay or stubble but of living stone. The only question is will we look at Jesus' temple and conclude by some doctrine that only a God could be a Temple like that and we settle for a small shack or will we see the truth that we are to be one with God (in our temple) even as Jesus in one.Hi martian,
Did God give Adam His Spirit or His breath?
Genesis
Chapter 2
7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.Number 5301
Transliteration:
naphach {naw-fakh'}
Word Origin:
a primitive root
TWOT:
1390
Part of Speech:
verb
Usage in the KJV:
blow 4, breathe 2, seething 2, blown 1, lose 1, snuffed 1, give up 1Total: 12
Definition:
to breathe, blow, sniff at, seethe, give up or lose (life)
(Qal) to breathe, blow
(Pual) to be blown
(Hiphil) to cause to breathe outAll natural life comes from the breath of God which gave us a human spirit.
But we need to be reborn of the Spirit of GodQuote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 06 2008,04:18) Hi martian,
Did God give Adam His Spirit or His breath?
Genesis
Chapter 2
7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.Number 5301
Transliteration:
naphach {naw-fakh'}
Word Origin:
a primitive root
TWOT:
1390
Part of Speech:
verb
Usage in the KJV:
blow 4, breathe 2, seething 2, blown 1, lose 1, snuffed 1, give up 1Total: 12
Definition:
to breathe, blow, sniff at, seethe, give up or lose (life)
(Qal) to breathe, blow
(Pual) to be blown
(Hiphil) to cause to breathe outAll natural life comes from the breath of God which gave us a human spirit.
But we need to be reborn of the Spirit of God
Foolish question. Breath and Spirit are the same thing.Hi martian,
Isaiah 42:5
Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath [5397]unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:Number 5397
Transliteration:
n@shamah {nesh-aw-maw'}
Word Origin:
from 5395
TWOT:
1433a
Part of Speech:
noun feminine
Usage in the KJV:
breath 17, blast 3, spirit 2, inspiration 1, souls 1Total: 24
Definition:
breath, spirit
breath (of God)
breath (of man)
every breathing thing
spirit (of man)BREATH can mean spirit of man, but never the Spirit of God..
Hi K77,
Trinity theory is the best way satan has designed to insult God.God is made to be just as a mere puny man.
Christ is made God and not the Son of God.
God is divided from His own living Spirit.
If you fear God you will not get involved in such machinations.
WJ;
Just so I understand what you believe. Jesus was God prior but not the Son of God or the Father. Now since he came in the flesh he is the Son of God. So he went from being God to becoming the Son of God?
Now if that is true, how come when Peter said you are the Son of God, he said that the Father revealed this to Peter, indicating it was true? Why did the Father speak from heaven on every occassion and say that this was his Son, and not state that this was God or the eternal Word, which is God?
To Mods sorry for posting in the other topic.
1 Timothy 3:16
16And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Jesus Christ (The Word) was always there
Micah 5:22But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
John 1
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2The same was in the beginning with God.
3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
6There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
8He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Who was John the Baptist preparing the way for? I think we all know that. Maybe Jesus Christ our savior
Isaiah 43:11
3For I am the LORD thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour: I gave Egypt for thy ransom, Ethiopia and Seba for thee.
4Since thou wast precious in my sight, thou hast been honourable, and I have loved thee: therefore will I give men for thee, and people for thy life.
5Fear not: for I am with thee: I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west;
6I will say to the north, Give up; and to the south, Keep not back: bring my sons from far, and my daughters from the ends of the earth;
7Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.
8Bring forth the blind people that have eyes, and the deaf that have ears.
9Let all the nations be gathered together, and let the people be assembled: who among them can declare this, and shew us former things? let them bring forth their witnesses, that they may be justified: or let them hear, and say, It is truth.
10Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
11I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
1 John 5:7
7For there are threethat bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
John 1:14
14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
I have posted many scriptures on this topic both OT and NT. Either you believe what the scriptures say or you do not.
I have seen the scriptures quoted from others on the way Jesus considers Himself. But in Isaiah 43 God is telling us in verse 10 “I am he” so if God is the Father over all who are you going to listen to Jesus or the Father.
With Love and be Blessed. I hope you find what you seek
Keeper77 signing off….
Hi K77,
Do you think these scriptures prove Jesus is the God of the OT?
No he never said that but he did say he is the Son of God.In fact he told the Jews the Father was their God.
Jn8.54
54Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:It is hard to imagine that what you have been fed all your life in your church is not true.
But Christ was an anointed man who was used as a vessel by God .
God visited his chosen people in this glorious vessel.Acts 10
36The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:)37That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;
38How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
39And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:
40Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;
41Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.
2Tim2
19Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.20But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
21If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
We too should seek to be such vessels for this treasure.
Quote mr steve No my friend, you are diverting the conversation to what Trinitarians believe.
Trintitarians believe he was in the form of God as Phil 2 and Jn 1:1 clearly shows.
WJ;
Tinitarians believe the Son of God was incarnated. Jesus Christ the Son of God being filled with the fullnes of God which includes the Word, was manifest in the flesh.
God from God, True God from True God, Light from Light…
Steven
NH
No it is not hard to imagine at all. If you continue to read the rest of the verses will see what else Jesus said about Himself again:
John 8
54 Jesus replied, “If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. 55 Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and keep his word. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.”
57 “You are not yet fifty years old,” the Jews said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!”
58 “I tell you the truth,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!” 59 At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.
I think 58 really says it all
Have to go now, be blessed
Hi K77,
Did you not realise the monogenes Son of God was before Abraham?
His origins are from the beginning, before time.Lets look at light for an example of the trinity our how it can work clearly science has proven the basis of light and we see it it both particles and waves separate but one in the same
When scientists were trying to understand the essence of light (to which Jesus compares Himself) they did some tests to reveal whether light was waves or particles. Much to their dismay, some tests proved beyond the shadow of a doubt that light was waves, while other tests proved beyond the shadow of a doubt that light was particles. Battles were waged and many spent their breath trying to convince others of something that didn't exist. Light was both particle and wave, and that's why it was neither; it was a completely new class and comparable to nothing. On top of that, it was discovered that light always travels with the same speed; you can't slow it down or make it hurry. And if that wasn't weird enough, it appeared that at that light speed, all distances became zero and time froze to a stand still. That means that at light speed, there are no meters and no second and certainly no meters-per-second and the speed of light is not a speed! In fact, if we define space as that place where all things that have a size live, and time as that process that makes sure that not everything happens at once, then we can say that light sits on the edge of space time and is both part of it and not!
Good night and be blessed.
Hi K77,
So if we are to discover the nature of God we should seek the answers written in the bible.But God never teaches He is[or as you might surmise they are] any form of a trinity.
You see what a powerful disturbance is created by such an addition to scripture?
How can you worship and pray to a trinity?
Relationship? impossible.Quote (keeper77 @ Mar. 07 2008,02:32) To Mods sorry for posting in the other topic. 1 Timothy 3:16
16And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Jesus Christ (The Word) was always there
Micah 5:22But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
John 1
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2The same was in the beginning with God.
3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
6There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
8He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Who was John the Baptist preparing the way for? I think we all know that. Maybe Jesus Christ our savior
Isaiah 43:11
3For I am the LORD thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour: I gave Egypt for thy ransom, Ethiopia and Seba for thee.
4Since thou wast precious in my sight, thou hast been honourable, and I have loved thee: therefore will I give men for thee, and people for thy life.
5Fear not: for I am with thee: I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west;
6I will say to the north, Give up; and to the south, Keep not back: bring my sons from far, and my daughters from the ends of the earth;
7Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.
8Bring forth the blind people that have eyes, and the deaf that have ears.
9Let all the nations be gathered together, and let the people be assembled: who among them can declare this, and shew us former things? let them bring forth their witnesses, that they may be justified: or let them hear, and say, It is truth.
10Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
11I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
1 John 5:7
7For there are threethat bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
John 1:14
14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
I have posted many scriptures on this topic both OT and NT. Either you believe what the scriptures say or you do not.
I have seen the scriptures quoted from others on the way Jesus considers Himself. But in Isaiah 43 God is telling us in verse 10 “I am he” so if God is the Father over all who are you going to listen to Jesus or the Father.
With Love and be Blessed. I hope you find what you seek
Keeper77 signing off….
Hey Keeper77.You are obviously saying that Jesus is God because he is referred to as theos.
But men and angels are also called theos. Why not make the same argument for men and angels?
To keeper77.
Try out the Trinity Test.
https://heavennet.net/writings/trinitytest.htmAnd then try and reconcile these 100 scriptures with the Trinity Doctrine:
https://heavennet.net/writings/trinity-11.htmLet me know how you got on.
Matthew 26:42 “Again, for the second time, he (Jesus) went off and prayed, saying: 'My Father, if it is not possible for this to pass away except I drink it, let your will take place.'” Jesus begged God to will what Jesus wanted to happen. Jesus couldn't will it by himself. Therefore, the Father and the Son are separate.
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