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Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 19 2008,05:24) Hi martian,
So taking a right attitude to God is all you need to do to be saved?
Who decides if it is right enough?Proverbs 14:12
There is a way which seems right to a man,But its end is the way of death.
In the new covenant salvation is based on one simple thing. The belief that Christ died for your sins and rose from the grave. Paul made this very clear in 1 Cor 15. However salvation is not the end, it is only the beginning. Then begins the maturing process. Perfected by what we suffer ect. We are required to exercise and have faith. Faith means taking action to support and toward God’s will. In other words working with God in a covenant relationship to bring about His will in our lives. Having this type of faith operating in our lives brings about righteousness. Righteousness means staying on the path. This ties in exactly to the points I have posted before about the Commandments and keeping and breaking same.
Commandments are not orders such as from a general to his troops. The literal meaning is “directions toward Zion.” To keep the commandments means to guard and protect them. To have a proper attitude toward these directions. Breaking means to trample under foot. To have total disregard for them.When we have proper attitude toward God and His directions, we are teachable. No matter how many times we fail we return with a humble attitude willing to try again and learn God’s wisdom.
When we flaunt our own way and insist on doing things our way we show disrespect for a loving Father that only shows the best for His children. For this attitude we receive punishment.
One way keeps us on the right path (righteousness) the other puts us on our own course. Both require action and a choice of our will. One requires an action toward the will of God and the other an action toward our own wills.To all……..God (WORKS) in us to do (HIS) Will and good pleasure, and again, You are (CREATED) unto good (WORKS)> And again “For I (GOD) will take out of Them the stoney Heart and give them a Heart of Flesh (soft heart) and I (GOD) will write (MY) laws in their inward parts. It looks to me like God is the one doing the saving work in us. God saves whoever He choose to, He is the creator of true righteousness Not our Free Will Choices, as some suppose.
Jesus is an example of God's saving Work, not His saving work as some suppose. There is only one savior of Jesus and all of mankind and thats God Himself, who creates righteousness in us by His Holy Spirit, the same way He did Jesus, again Jesus' choices did not save Him, the Father who was in Him saved Him, God works all things according to the council of (HIS) own WILL. Those who provocate salvation as an act of Free Will, are simply trying to play god. Man has always wanted to be a God, so they created Jesus the man as a God or super being of preexistence origines, what behind it all is man trying to be God and choosing who and when and how He is saved . If you doint see Jesus as a ordinary man who God brought forth at the alotted time and perfected Him, then it is impossible for you to relate with Him and God the Father properly. Your view is destorted because you give Jesus to much Credit and take away or steal God's credit. Jesus plainly said it was the Father in HIM DOING THE WORKS, and He of Himself could do (NOTHING). WJ was right about one thing, you can no way say Jesus created the world and not say He was a God or deity. One problem is see hear is some are not seeing the whole picture but hold to some scriptures that could be taken to imply something when in fact many scriptures disagree with their assurtions and conclusions. We all need to try to look at the scriptures in the overall contexts.IMO……….gene
Gene;
Why did Jesus say either make the tree good or make it corrupt?
Where in the sermon on the mount does Jesus imply we are helpless to do the will of God?
Quote Jesus is an example of God's saving Work… So was he lost at one time Gene?
Quote Jesus' choices did not save Him, the Father who was in Him saved Him, God works all things according to the council of (HIS) own WILL. Didn't Jesus pray not my will but thine be done? Did he not set aside his own will?
Did not God give authority to Jesus to execute his will? To forgive sins? To heal?
Did not Jesus give authority to his disciples to do the same? His disciples cast out demons in the name of Jesus. How come they didn't cast out devils in the name of the Father?
How come the gospel was preached in the book of Acts in the name of Jesus and not the Father?
The truth is that God vested his power in Christ and Christ performed the works by the power of God given to him. The father gave all power to Christ in heaven and in earth.
Does not the scripture say that Christ was in the world and the world was made by him and the world knew him not?
Here's the difference between the Father and the Son, the Father gave authority to Christ to do what he did and made him your Lord Jesus Christ if you believe in him. Christ's lordship was given to him because he pleased the Father in all things. The Father's Lordship is eternal. Jesus referred to his Father as the only true God and his God. So the Lordship of Christ is substantially different than the Lordship of the Father.
Quote One problem is see hear is some are not seeing the whole picture but hold to some scriptures that could be taken to imply something when in fact many scriptures disagree with their assurtions and conclusions. Gene you have no scriptures to support your view that Christ was a mere man just like us. He created the world is what the gospel says. Your view contradicts the scriptures.
Quote WJ was right about one thing, you can no way say Jesus created the world and not say He was a God or deity. Gene; WJ does not believe that Jesus pre-existed as the Son of God, he believes that Jesus was the Word which was with God and was God. Basically, he believes the Jesus was God and became the Son of God. He does not believe that Jesus was the Son of God in heaven prior and was sent down from heaven.
Quote We all need to try to look at the scriptures in the overall contexts. Jesus said his Father's work was for us to believe in him whom he hath sent. Do you believe in him according to what he taught about himself?
Do you believe he created the world by the power of the Father?
Do you believe that Christ is the savior of the world?
Paul said he thanked God through Jesus Christ. That's the order of the New Testament. You're not taking glory away from the Father by doing so, you are glorifying his work in Christ.
Steven
Quote (Mr. Steve @ Feb. 20 2008,06:05) Gene; Why did Jesus say either make the tree good or make it corrupt?
Where in the sermon on the mount does Jesus imply we are helpless to do the will of God?
Quote Jesus is an example of God's saving Work… So was he lost at one time Gene?
Quote Jesus' choices did not save Him, the Father who was in Him saved Him, God works all things according to the council of (HIS) own WILL. Didn't Jesus pray not my will but thine be done? Did he not set aside his own will?
Did not God give authority to Jesus to execute his will? To forgive sins? To heal?
Did not Jesus give authority to his disciples to do the same? His disciples cast out demons in the name of Jesus. How come they didn't cast out devils in the name of the Father?
How come the gospel was preached in the book of Acts in the name of Jesus and not the Father?
The truth is that God vested his power in Christ and Christ performed the works by the power of God given to him. The father gave all power to Christ in heaven and in earth.
Does not the scripture say that Christ was in the world and the world was made by him and the world knew him not?
Here's the difference between the Father and the Son, the Father gave authority to Christ to do what he did and made him your Lord Jesus Christ if you believe in him. Christ's lordship was given to him because he pleased the Father in all things. The Father's Lordship is eternal. Jesus referred to his Father as the only true God and his God. So the Lordship of Christ is substantially different than the Lordship of the Father.
Quote One problem is see hear is some are not seeing the whole picture but hold to some scriptures that could be taken to imply something when in fact many scriptures disagree with their assurtions and conclusions. Gene you have no scriptures to support your view that Christ was a mere man just like us. He created the world is what the gospel says. Your view contradicts the scriptures.
Quote WJ was right about one thing, you can no way say Jesus created the world and not say He was a God or deity. Gene; WJ does not believe that Jesus pre-existed as the Son of God, he believes that Jesus was the Word which was with God and was God. Basically, he believes the Jesus was God and became the Son of God. He does not believe that Jesus was the Son of God in heaven prior and was sent down from heaven.
Quote We all need to try to look at the scriptures in the overall contexts. Jesus said his Father's work was for us to believe in him whom he hath sent. Do you believe in him according to what he taught about himself?
Do you believe he created the world by the power of the Father?
Do you believe that Christ is the savior of the world?
Paul said he thanked God through Jesus Christ. That's the order of the New Testament. You're not taking glory away from the Father by doing so, you are glorifying his work in Christ.
Steven
Mr. Steve[QUOTE]…….why did Jesus say You make the tree good or you make it evil.Again your trying to make our salvation based on our choices, and not understanding that it's God who (Works in us) to Will and do His good pleasure, Just as He worked in Jesus also.
Those choices do make the tree good or evil, But the good choice is being caused by the Holy Spirit in Us, not by our own (FREE WILL). You seem bent on trying to gloryfing the man instead of God who is causing that choice, as if the person was His own savior. Why did Jesus say why callest me good there is (ONLY ONE) who is good, and thats God.Mr. Steve…Quote..> Didn't Jesus pray not my will but thine be done? Did he not set aside his own will?
God was the one (IN HIM) driving His decesions as He is in all His childern causing them to do His Will and good pleasure.
Have you forgot where Jesus said He could do nothing By HIMSELF> Jesus Know it was the Father who was doing the works not him and that includeds all mircales ever done by anyone. All power Jesus has or ever will have is (SUBJECTIVE POWER) to God's WILL and will alway be, and that goes for the apostles and us also. How else could He say thy Kingdom come, thy Will be done, if that wern't the case. You seam to continuly want to not think Jesus is Subjective to God, but operates on His own authority apart from God Authority, and you do this with mankind also. Jesus said no man (CAN) come unto me unless the Father draw (DRAG) Him. You need to reevaluate the power of God in the mind of His creation. We don't choose God by our (FREE WILL) God chooses us, as scripture plainly expresses and God works in us to bring about His Will in our lives. God did give authority to Jesus to execute His (GOD”S) Will, Which was God forgives sins and God Heals also through Jesus or whom ever He (GOD) want's to.Quote…> how come the gospel was preached in the book of Acts in the name of Jesus and not the Father?
again your attempt to exclude God The Father from His work He was doing in and through Christ Jesus. The power Christ had was the Father in Him and it was the Father doing the works, again your trying to make a God-man , but scripture says God gives His Glory to no man and i believe Jesus was a man at least thats what scripture says.
Christ lord ship was given to himbecause He was destined for that purpose from the beginning of the world, He was in God's Plan and at the right time God brought Him forth, just as it say's, he was not a reincarnet being who preexisted either.
In my opinion you fall into the same error as trinitarians do by trying to make a man/god. You still can't believe God took a ordinary Human beign and perfected Him and keep Him from sin, a son He forordained and predestinated, then you cannot believe He can do the same thing in you either. Jesus was the example what God can do, not what Jesus could do by His self or His (Free Will Choices). Jesus Christ is to the Glory of God The Father.
IMO…..gene
Hi 94,
The Holy Spirit is only in those who are reborn.
then, if they live submitted lives,
that Spirit can lead them.Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 20 2008,12:43) Quote (Mr. Steve @ Feb. 20 2008,06:05) Gene; Why did Jesus say either make the tree good or make it corrupt?
Where in the sermon on the mount does Jesus imply we are helpless to do the will of God?
Quote Jesus is an example of God's saving Work… So was he lost at one time Gene?
Quote Jesus' choices did not save Him, the Father who was in Him saved Him, God works all things according to the council of (HIS) own WILL. Didn't Jesus pray not my will but thine be done? Did he not set aside his own will?
Did not God give authority to Jesus to execute his will? To forgive sins? To heal?
Did not Jesus give authority to his disciples to do the same? His disciples cast out demons in the name of Jesus. How come they didn't cast out devils in the name of the Father?
How come the gospel was preached in the book of Acts in the name of Jesus and not the Father?
The truth is that God vested his power in Christ and Christ performed the works by the power of God given to him. The father gave all power to Christ in heaven and in earth.
Does not the scripture say that Christ was in the world and the world was made by him and the world knew him not?
Here's the difference between the Father and the Son, the Father gave authority to Christ to do what he did and made him your Lord Jesus Christ if you believe in him. Christ's lordship was given to him because he pleased the Father in all things. The Father's Lordship is eternal. Jesus referred to his Father as the only true God and his God. So the Lordship of Christ is substantially different than the Lordship of the Father.
Quote One problem is see hear is some are not seeing the whole picture but hold to some scriptures that could be taken to imply something when in fact many scriptures disagree with their assurtions and conclusions. Gene you have no scriptures to support your view that Christ was a mere man just like us. He created the world is what the gospel says. Your view contradicts the scriptures.
Quote WJ was right about one thing, you can no way say Jesus created the world and not say He was a God or deity. Gene; WJ does not believe that Jesus pre-existed as the Son of God, he believes that Jesus was the Word which was with God and was God. Basically, he believes the Jesus was God and became the Son of God. He does not believe that Jesus was the Son of God in heaven prior and was sent down from heaven.
Quote We all need to try to look at the scriptures in the overall contexts. Jesus said his Father's work was for us to believe in him whom he hath sent. Do you believe in him according to what he taught about himself?
Do you believe he created the world by the power of the Father?
Do you believe that Christ is the savior of the world?
Paul said he thanked God through Jesus Christ. That's the order of the New Testament. You're not taking glory away from the Father by doing so, you are glorifying his work in Christ.
Steven
Mr. Steve[QUOTE]…….why did Jesus say You make the tree good or you make it evil.Again your trying to make our salvation based on our choices, and not understanding that it's God who (Works in us) to Will and do His good pleasure, Just as He worked in Jesus also.
Those choices do make the tree good or evil, But the good choice is being caused by the Holy Spirit in Us, not by our own (FREE WILL). You seem bent on trying to gloryfing the man instead of God who is causing that choice, as if the person was His own savior. Why did Jesus say why callest me good there is (ONLY ONE) who is good, and thats God.Mr. Steve…Quote..> Didn't Jesus pray not my will but thine be done? Did he not set aside his own will?
God was the one (IN HIM) driving His decesions as He is in all His childern causing them to do His Will and good pleasure.
Have you forgot where Jesus said He could do nothing By HIMSELF> Jesus Know it was the Father who was doing the works not him and that includeds all mircales ever done by anyone. All power Jesus has or ever will have is (SUBJECTIVE POWER) to God's WILL and will alway be, and that goes for the apostles and us also. How else could He say thy Kingdom come, thy Will be done, if that wern't the case. You seam to continuly want to not think Jesus is Subjective to God, but operates on His own authority apart from God Authority, and you do this with mankind also. Jesus said no man (CAN) come unto me unless the Father draw (DRAG) Him. You need to reevaluate the power of God in the mind of His creation. We don't choose God by our (FREE WILL) God chooses us, as scripture plainly expresses and God works in us to bring about His Will in our lives. God did give authority to Jesus to execute His (GOD”S) Will, Which was God forgives sins and God Heals also through Jesus or whom ever He (GOD) want's to.Quote…> how come the gospel was preached in the book of Acts in the name of Jesus and not the Father?
again your attempt to exclude God The Father from His work He was doing in and through Christ Jesus. The power Christ had was the Father in Him and it was the Father doing the works, again your trying to make a God-man , but scripture says God gives His Glory to no man and i believe Jesus was a man at least thats what scripture says.
Christ lord ship was given to himbecause He was destined for that purpose from the beginning of the world, He was in God's Plan and at the right time God brought Him forth, just as it say's, he was not a reincarnet being who preexisted either.
In my opinion you fall into the same error as trinitarians do by trying to make a man/god. You still can't believe God took a ordinary Human beign and perfected Him and keep Him from sin, a son He forordained and predestinated, then you cannot believe He can do the same thing in you either. Jesus was the example what God can do, not what Jesus could do by His self or His (Free Will Choices). Jesus Christ is to the Glory of God The Father.
IMO…..gene
If the choices are God's and not ours and God's will is for all to be saved, why are not all automatically saved?
Smells way to much like Cavinism to me.FALSE.
There is no Trinity. God the Father and Jesus Christ are the only two. The only two in heaven.
Quote (discipleelohim @ Feb. 21 2008,03:30) FALSE. There is no Trinity. God the Father and Jesus Christ are the only two. The only two in heaven.
Hi and welcome if you want those that belief in the trinity to belief what you are saying, you need to say more then that. I do not belief either that there is a trinity, but we have members that will argue that point with scripture. So please give some scripture to back up your belief, thank you.Peace and Love Mrs.
Quote (seek and you will find @ Feb. 21 2008,04:09) Quote (discipleelohim @ Feb. 21 2008,03:30) FALSE. There is no Trinity. God the Father and Jesus Christ are the only two. The only two in heaven.
Hi and welcome if you want those that belief in the trinity to belief what you are saying, you need to say more then that. I do not belief either that there is a trinity, but we have members that will argue that point with scripture. So please give some scripture to back up your belief, thank you.Peace and Love Mrs.
No one is going to agree on a method for interpreting scripture so eveyone is just voicing opinions. What is better is if a Trinitarian can tell you how the teaching of the Trinity helps a person become like Christ. What is the fruit of the doctrine.Quote (martian @ Feb. 21 2008,06:16) Quote (seek and you will find @ Feb. 21 2008,04:09) Quote (discipleelohim @ Feb. 21 2008,03:30) FALSE. There is no Trinity. God the Father and Jesus Christ are the only two. The only two in heaven.
Hi and welcome if you want those that belief in the trinity to belief what you are saying, you need to say more then that. I do not belief either that there is a trinity, but we have members that will argue that point with scripture. So please give some scripture to back up your belief, thank you.Peace and Love Mrs.
No one is going to agree on a method for interpreting scripture so eveyone is just voicing opinions. What is better is if a Trinitarian can tell you how the teaching of the Trinity helps a person become like Christ. What is the fruit of the doctrine.
Gentleman here is your first challenge!!!!!!!Quote (martian @ Feb. 21 2008,06:16)
The Almightly God is the Father. He is the Holy Spirit. Jesus Christ is the Son of God. There is NO THIRD.The Holy Spirit is NOT its own entity.
This Truth will be revealed to mankind soon enough.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened (The books of the Bible are now opened for all to be able to understand—by God’s spirit): and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of
Quote (discipleelohim @ Feb. 21 2008,06:39) [quote=martian,Feb. 21 2008,06:16][/quote]
The Almightly God is the Father. He is the Holy Spirit. Jesus Christ is the Son of God. There is NO THIRD.The Holy Spirit is NOT its own entity.
This Truth will be revealed to mankind soon enough.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened (The books of the Bible are now opened for all to be able to understand—by God’s spirit): and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of
Hi and welcome DE,
If God was in Christ [as the Holy Spirit] why did Jesus tell men to pray to the Father in Heaven?
I say God manifests as His Spirit in His creation.Gene;
The reason that you do not see that we have freewill is due to what Martian said I would suppose-Calvinism. Calvin ministered a gospel that attributed even our very choices to God. What he didn't realize was that even though God gives the power to men to repent he does not abolish their will to accept or to reject. He did not see that truth for some reason. The result being a doctrine where man is helpless to do the will of God and if he does it was only because God let the man do the will of God. Jesus did not preach this doctrine.
Jesus placed the burden on man to obey as does the rest of the scripture.
The entire Bible is written with this truth in mind. Paul talks about the Gentiles that have not the law but do by nature the things contained in the law, they having not the law are a law unto themselves, their conscience the meanwhile either accusing or excusing them before God.
Therefore, there is a general capacity within man to obey God, not perfectly, thus we all under sin before forgiven by Christ.
You have a very extreme view of the necessity of additional divine intervention to please God that I do not believe is substantiated in scripture. It's your choice to hold that view.
Under grace, sin does not have dominion over us because we have the power of Christ to overcome sin. But that doesn't mean that before Christ we were absolutely powerless to make conscious choices between right and wrong.
What I see in scripture is Jesus teaching reliance on him to bring forth fruit in him since he is the vine and we are the branches. Paul speaks at length about yielding yourself to righteousness, putting the old man, and putting the new man on in Christ Jesus. Most of these statements express that we have a substantial part in God working in us.
Under your view we have no part of God working in us and the resulting decisions we make. Actually, under your view we are not making the decisions, God is making them for us. I don't see this view in scripture.
Moreover, if God is making all of our decisions for us then why does he say in every parable that he will hold us accountable in the day of judgment. In Revelation, Jesus spoke the same four words to every church, “I know thy works” According to Jesus the works are attributed to us and he will judge us accordingly. Under your view the works are not ours but God's works and you are yet to explain why he will judge us for his work in us.
I'm sorry Gene. I believe that you must take the whole counsel of God in the entire bible and learn accordingly. All scripture is given by inspiration of God. What scripture is Paul referring to? The entire old testament. There was no new testament at the time.
So did God ever send his prophets and tell Israel that all their choices were made by God and they are not accountable? When you read the Bible in any place Old or New Testament, you'll find that God will judge us all according to our works, without mention of the divine intervention of God making choices for us.
Steven
Hello all been along time (but I have been quietly reading along for about 40 or so pages and finally have some time to wade in.) Like martian mentioned earlier this is just a board of opinions and like others I enjoy testing my opinions just like everyone else. With that out of the way here we go again.
The reason that “I” believe in the trinity is because it makes so much since. (I hear the groaning in the background and expect the boards to light up.)
I have tried many times to compare the tabernacle/tri-une nature of man/tri-une nature of God with no takers. So maybe You and I could have a go martian.(If I could keep your interest) got to go now but will log in later at home and see if you responeded. God Bless allHi CW,
There may be some fascinating parallels you can find in scripture
but the truth remains that trinity is never taught by God there.
Speculations do not form a useful basis for anything much.Quote (chipwhite @ Feb. 21 2008,08:01) Hello all been along time (but I have been quietly reading along for about 40 or so pages and finally have some time to wade in.) Like martian mentioned earlier this is just a board of opinions and like others I enjoy testing my opinions just like everyone else. With that out of the way here we go again. The reason that “I” believe in the trinity is because it makes so much since. (I hear the groaning in the background and expect the boards to light up.)
I have tried many times to compare the tabernacle/tri-une nature of man/tri-une nature of God with no takers. So maybe You and I could have a go martian.(If I could keep your interest) got to go now but will log in later at home and see if you responeded. God Bless all
I wuld be happy to discuss the subject with you and welcome to the board.If I understand you post correctly you compare the Body Soul and Spirit of man to the Trinity. The analogy falls completely apart when you consider that the primary tennant of the Trinity is that ther are three “Persons” of the Trinity. Each with their own personality. The Body soul and spirit comprise one person. No part of that person can be seperate from the other as an animated seperate intity.
Beyond all of that there is always the question of function and purpose. God does not give teaching that in itself is idle philosophy and intelectual data.
Our purpose for being created is to become mature sons and daughters of God. For this purpose God gave us a perfect example.If Jesus is any part God and that part effected or gave Him any advantage over the rest of humanity, that example is made invalid.
The writers of scripture were Hebrew and wrote and thought from a Hebrew perspective.For example —
Abstract versus concrete thought.
A Western thinker views the world through the mind. A Hebrew views the world through the 5 senses.
The word anger as in Psalms 103:8 is an abstract word. This word was translated from the original words – the flaring of the nose or nostrils. The Hebrews saw anger by the physical aspects of what happens when a person Gets angry. They begin to breathe hard and the nostrild flair.
Appearance bersus functional descriptions.
Greek thinkers describe objects in rlation to their appearance while a Hebrew thinker desribes the sme objects by their function. A greek describes a pencil as yellow and 12 inches long and a Hebrew sinply says I write with it. This way of thinking seems very foriegn to us, but to truly understand what the scriptue says we must see it from the Hebrew perspective.
Some say the Trinity is an example of unity. Let me suggest that the relationship between a Father (God) and sons (us) is a much better example.Quote The reason that “I” believe in the trinity is because it makes so much since. CW;
Does it make sense to you that “God” is spoken of by Jesus hundreds of times and he never includes himself.
Even when deceivers came to Christ and said there is but one God, Jesus agreed.
Jesus never said he was God.
Jesus said the Father is his God.
Jesus keeps the commandments of God.
Jesus worships God.
Jesus said his message was not his but God's.
The trinity holds that Jesus is equally God as the Father is God. Considering the above, does that make sense to you?
Steven
Quote (Mr. Steve @ Feb. 21 2008,07:07) The entire Bible is written with this truth in mind. Paul talks about the Gentiles that have not the law but do by nature the things contained in the law, they having not the law are a law unto themselves, their conscience the meanwhile either accusing or excusing them before God. Therefore, there is a general capacity within man to obey God, not perfectly, thus we all under sin before forgiven by Christ.
Mr. Steve……> You did not quote Paul accurately concerning the gentiles, you left out the part that disagrees with you Idea of (Free Will) salvation, so i will add it back, to show you your error. Paul..> ” The gentiles who have not the law, but do the things contained in the law, Show the law written in their heart, (BY THE HAND OF GOD) ……No were does it say it was by their (FREE WILL CHOICE), that your inference not the scriptures.Secondly, does it not say It Is GOD who works in us to both (WILL) and do His good pleasure.
So my point is Its God that drives our Decisions via His HOLY SPIRIT which causes us to make the right choices.
You seem to want to deal God completely out of the picture by saying You so called (Free Will) is the result of you salvation.
I follow God because His Spirit is in me is guiding my thoughts which causes me to act in accordance with His will.
you are saying you follow God because it (YOUR OWN) Choice to, well congradulations you are able to save yourself and have no need of Grace.And about your and martian's claim that I am Calivnestic, is wrong for a lot of reasons, One I do not believe in the Trinity, two don't believe Christmas, Three don't believe in sunday as the lord's day of worship, Four don't believe in Easter, Five I believe John Calvin was a cold blooded murder of Michael Servetus as history show's because Servetus wrote a Paper on the errors of the trinity.
IMO………..gene
Gene;
The scripture in Romans does not say “by the hand of God” that is your insertion.
With respect to Calvinism, your beliefs are harmonious with his view of salvation. With respect to the other aspects of Calvin I made no comment.
The fact remains that man has a “duty” to keep the commandments of God. The duty belongs to us. We do not have to be concerned with God performing his duty in gracing us to perform his will, he is always faithful.
Steven
The primary problem with the Calvinistic concept is that it makes God foolish. It is not functional within the plan or attributes of God. God has a plan to have children that will love Him and honor Him.
God knows that only love and honor that is given from a free will has merit. What value is there in having a robot that is programmed to come to you and love you. A robot that speak the words and plays the part but makes no decision of it’s own to be intimate with God is not rally a lover of God.
God sets out the directions and calls us with a still small voice to come to Him. Our choice is to respond to that voice or not. When we respond to God it is God’s grace that places us as sons in the Kingdom.
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