The Trinity Doctrine

[NickHassan]

Hi Martian,
Gen 2.7
7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath [5397]of life; and man became a living soul.

We know Adam was not infilled with the Spirit of God but just given life by the breath of God. If Adam was given the Spirit of God and not his human life spirit then we, as his sons, would already be reborn from above and not need to be reborn of water and the Spirit.

[martian]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 16 2008,05:50)

Hi Martian, Gen 2.7 7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath [5397]of life; and man became a living soul. We know Adam was not infilled with the Spirit of God but just given life by the breath of God. If Adam was given the Spirit of God and not his human life spirit then we, as his sons, would already be reborn from above and not need to be reborn of water and the Spirit.

Th problem is that you are interpreting that verse by virtue of your doctrine. The is a diversity of gifts but one breath. the same breath that gave Adam life is the spirit that we are filled with.

[NickHassan]

Hi Martian,
Then you need to be born again.

Rom8
9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

10And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

11But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

12Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

13For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

14For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

15For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

[martian]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 16 2008,09:32)

Hi Martian, Then you need to be born again. Rom8 9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. 12Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 15For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

So if there is one spirit that gives life to Adam and one that sustains life in Job and one that anointed Jesus and one that we become filled with are you advocating multiple spirits of God?

[martian]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 16 2008,09:32)

Hi Martian, Then you need to be born again. Rom8 9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. 12Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 15For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Can a man of the Old Testament be born again?
Can a man be filled with the Spirit without being born again?

Exodus 31:3?”I have filled him with the Spirit of God in wisdom, in understanding, in knowledge, and in all kinds of craftsmanship
Exodus 35:31?”And He has filled him with the Spirit of God, in wisdom, in understanding and in knowledge and in all craftsmanship
Micah 3:8?On the other hand I am filled with power–With the Spirit of the LORD–And with justice and courage To make known to Jacob his rebellious act, Even to Israel his sin.

There is one Spirit. That Spirit is God. That Spirit functions and reveals itself in many ways. To Adam it was the animating presence of God that gave him life. To Job it was that same Spirit of God that sustained his life. To Micah it was the anointing Spirit that filled him. To Jesus the one that anointed him and dwelled in fullness in him. To us the one that regenerates our human spirit continually and fills us.

[NickHassan]

Quote (martian @ Feb. 16 2008,08:37)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 16 2008,05:50) Hi Martian, Gen 2.7 7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath [5397]of life; and man became a living soul. We know Adam was not infilled with the Spirit of God but just given life by the breath of God. If Adam was given the Spirit of God and not his human life spirit then we, as his sons, would already be reborn from above and not need to be reborn of water and the Spirit. Th problem is that you are interpreting that verse by virtue of your doctrine. The is a diversity of gifts but one breath. the same breath that gave Adam life is the spirit that we are filled with.

Hi martian,
So your claim to be a son of God is because Adam was your dad and God was his?

The Jews tried that one and it proved dysfunctional.

Jn8
40But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.

41Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.

42Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

43Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

44Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

45And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

46Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?

47He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Our spirit came through Adam.
Christ, the second Adam, has become for us the source of eternal life.
That is through the gift of the Spirit of God to all who ask.

[GeneBalthrop]

Nick……martian gave a very good explanation of The Spirit, what do you where JESUS said your Father in Heaven Knows what you have need of, when He made that statement the apostles had not recieved the Spirit yet, but many times he told then to refer to God as their Father. You seem to have forget where God said if He were to retract His Spirit all Flesh would die. You seam to not realize all living things have there origins From one God and are sustained by Spirit in them. All the things in this world have their source from ONE GOD, and He said He creates both good and Evil. The Spirit is expressed as a force Just like the wind you see the effect but can't tell when it comes and where it goes. So is the Spirit it's invisible to our eyes to see but we see its effect in every thing. “That God may be in all and through all. God sends Spirit into all His creation it's every where. And because its His Spirit that effect all, He then is ever present.

Nick why do you wan't to disagree so much. And even if you believe in a father devil it's God who created that also by His Spirit, to bring about His will in all things.

IMO……gene

[NickHassan]

Quote (martian @ Feb. 17 2008,01:29)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 16 2008,09:32) Hi Martian, Then you need to be born again. Rom8 9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. 12Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 15For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: So if there is one spirit that gives life to Adam and one that sustains life in Job and one that anointed Jesus and one that we become filled with are you advocating multiple spirits of God?

Hi martian,
God gave life to Adam and other men by his breath.

He anointed Christ with His own Spirit which is with our spirit in us who belong to Christ.

[NickHassan]

Quote (martian @ Feb. 17 2008,02:03)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 16 2008,09:32) Hi Martian, Then you need to be born again. Rom8 9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. 12Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 15For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: Can a man of the Old Testament be born again? Can a man be filled with the Spirit without being born again? Exodus 31:3?”I have filled him with the Spirit of God in wisdom, in understanding, in knowledge, and in all kinds of craftsmanship Exodus 35:31?”And He has filled him with the Spirit of God, in wisdom, in understanding and in knowledge and in all craftsmanship Micah 3:8?On the other hand I am filled with power–With the Spirit of the LORD–And with justice and courage To make known to Jacob his rebellious act, Even to Israel his sin. There is one Spirit. That Spirit is God. That Spirit functions and reveals itself in many ways. To Adam it was the animating presence of God that gave him life. To Job it was that same Spirit of God that sustained his life. To Micah it was the anointing Spirit that filled him. To Jesus the one that anointed him and dwelled in fullness in him. To us the one that regenerates our human spirit continually and fills us.

Hi martian,
God chose men of old and anointed them with the Spirit of life unto eternity.

We need to repent and be washed inwardly, symbolised by baptism, as we have all sinned, to be made fit for the treasure of the indwelling Spirit.

[NickHassan]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 17 2008,14:51)

Nick……martian gave a very good explanation of The Spirit, what do you where JESUS said your Father  in Heaven Knows what you have need of, when He made that statement the apostles had not recieved the Spirit yet, but many times he told then to refer to God as their Father. You seem to have forget where God said if He were to retract  His Spirit all Flesh would die. You seam to not realize all living things have there origins From one God and are sustained by Spirit in them. All the things in this world have their source from ONE GOD, and He said He creates both good and Evil. The Spirit is expressed as a force Just like the wind you see the effect but can't tell when it comes and where it goes. So is the Spirit it's invisible to our eyes to see but we see its effect in every thing. “That God may be in all and through all. God sends Spirit into all His creation it's every where. And because its His Spirit that effect all, He then is ever present. Nick why do you wan't to disagree so much. And even if you believe in a father devil it's God who created that also by His Spirit, to bring about His will in all things. IMO……gene

Hi Gene,
God gave of His breath to man that he may become a living soul.
God knows our deeds and our inmost thoughts by that spirit which returns to Him at death.

Proverbs 16:2
All the ways of a man are clean in his own eyes; but the LORD weigheth the spirits.

Proverbs 20:27
The spirit of man is the candle of the LORD, searching all the inward parts of the belly.

Ecclesiastes 8:8
There is no man that hath power over the spirit to retain the spirit; neither hath he power in the day of death: and there is no discharge in that war; neither shall wickedness deliver those that are given to it.

Eccl 12
7Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

[NickHassan]

Hi,
Man has a spirit.
God has a spirit.

But some who believe in a trinity god would say that the Spirit of God is another person.
How odd.

[martian]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 17 2008,17:24)

Quote (martian @ Feb. 17 2008,02:03) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 16 2008,09:32) Hi Martian, Then you need to be born again. Rom8 9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. 12Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 15For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: Can a man of the Old Testament be born again? Can a man be filled with the Spirit without being born again? Exodus 31:3?”I have filled him with the Spirit of God in wisdom, in understanding, in knowledge, and in all kinds of craftsmanship Exodus 35:31?”And He has filled him with the Spirit of God, in wisdom, in understanding and in knowledge and in all craftsmanship Micah 3:8?On the other hand I am filled with power–With the Spirit of the LORD–And with justice and courage To make known to Jacob his rebellious act, Even to Israel his sin. There is one Spirit. That Spirit is God. That Spirit functions and reveals itself in many ways. To Adam it was the animating presence of God that gave him life. To Job it was that same Spirit of God that sustained his life. To Micah it was the anointing Spirit that filled him. To Jesus the one that anointed him and dwelled in fullness in him. To us the one that regenerates our human spirit continually and fills us. Hi martian, God chose men of old and anointed them with the Spirit of life unto eternity. We need to repent and be washed inwardly, symbolised by baptism, as we have all sinned, to be made fit for the treasure of the indwelling Spirit.

So you believe that you need to be baptized to be fit to recieve the infilling of the spirit?
And what happened to that theory at Cornellius' house.
44While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message.

45All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.

46For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter answered,

47″Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?”

48And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days.

These peope were filled with the Spirit in the same manner as the apostles before they were baptized.

[kejonn]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 16 2008,12:20)

Hi martian, So your claim to be a son of God is because Adam was your dad and God was his? The Jews tried that one and it proved dysfunctional.

Odd considering that it was God who made this original arrangement according to the OT…

[martian]

In Luke 2: 41-52 we see the story of Jesus confounding the temple preasts at 12 years old. Several things are clear in this passage. (41 – 42) Jesus was raised in, and followed the Hebrew Customs of the time.
(42 – 50) Jesus had an agenda that went beyond his earthly parentage of Mary or the teaching of Joseph. He was being raised by his real father Yahweh. For this reason he not only astonished the teachers in the Temple but was there to also learn in that he asked questions of them.
When confronted by Mary and Joseph about his absence he states what was obvious to Him. He had to be in His Father’s house! Even they were perplexed by this, but Mary, understanding His herritage hid these things in her heart.
(52) Jesus grew and increased in wisdom and in favor with God and man. He grew up like any normal boy except for the fact that his father (Yahweh) was his father and teacher.
Jesus was an earthly son with a heavenly father. Even the word “begotten” means began. Jesus had a beginning upon his conception in the womb.

Did Jesus need parenting and teaching from God? Was He not perfect through all eternity from the beginning?
Hebrews 2: 9 – 11
See several points in these verses –
Jesus was made a little lower then the Angels.
Jesus was crowned with Glory and honor because of the “suffering of death”.
It was fitting for Jesus to bring many to salvation because he was perfected by what he suffered. (11) In this verse scripture shows very clearly those that are sanctified (us) and He who sanctifies (Jesus) are all from one Father and therefore Jesus calls them Brethren. This verse ties it all together as Jesus being Human but begotten by Yahweh and us being of complete human parentage and adopted as heirs and joint heirs with Jesus.

Hebrews 5:8 and 9 In the Greek there is no period between verses 8 and 9

Even though Jesus was a son, He learned obediance from the things which he suffered and being made perfect he became the source of all salvation.
Jesus the man learned obediance and was perfected by the things which He suffered. For this reason he was made the source of all salvation.

Consider this also —
Mark 12: 1 thru 9
God plants a vineyard, Israel. He builds a wall of protection around it from the rest of the world. He places vine growers to tend it, the Pharasees and teachers. When time comes for harvest from his land he sends prophets of earthly heritage who are killed. Over and over He sends them and they are ignored and driven out. Finally God sends His own begotten son saying surely they will respect and listen to my own son. The pharasees kill His son.
What will God do? He will destroy the vine growers and put new ones in charge.

God had to send His own son to the nation of Israel and it’s leaders. The Isralies might be able to justify the killing of the prophets who showed human weakness and failings, but there could be no excuse for killing God’s own begotten son who showed the perfect revealing of God’s nature to them. Yahweh, being a God of justice now had every right to uterly destroy Israel and it’s leaders. God now had every right to turn to the gentiles to harvest His world.

After the Dark Ages and man began to have access to scripture in his own language, these verses clearly depicting Christ as a man and not a God, began to cause trouble for Trinitarians. In order to salvage the tradition of the trinity, several variations of that doctrine were formulated to explain these verses. Two of these are as follows —
1. Jesus gave up his divinity and became a complete human on earth.
2. That Jesus is both fully God and fully human at the same time. (the dual – nature concept)

The first of these at first glance seems to have a very few scriptures to support it, but carefull study shows that they really do not. The great proponderance of scripture stands clearly against it.
Logic itself indicates the falicy of this stand. Consider Jesus as a God’s attributes. He is eternal, omniscient, omnipresent, never changing and a Spirit. These are the very nature of the being of God. How can a being like this become finite in abilities and knowledge, mortal, flesh and blood, and contained within one place or human body? How can God stop being God? Can God change His very nature?

The second of these premisses is equally impossible.
Not only do you have the confussion of God becoming somehow man, but must ask yourself what part of Jesus is God and what part is man? What of his triumphs was because he was a God and what was because He was a man? Which part are we capable of using as a patern? There is no clear scriptural evidence describing this dual nature.
Secondly there are hundreds of scriptures comparing Christ with the rest of humanity as being the same. If Jesus is some kind of Hybrid then these verses are false!
Certainly Jesus spoke propheticaly(in first person) from the Father. All prophets before and since have done the same thing. Certainly he walked in a way that far supersedes anything we have seen in others. This is because there was no seperation (sin) between him and God. He was the perfect example of walking with His heavenly Father.
Another point to consider is this. One of the most profound statements of God’s nature is “I AM”! This, in these two simple words incapsulates the very being of God. For Yahweh to become anything other then that invalidates His very being.

Look up perfect or perfection and perfected in your concordance. You will find scores of scriptures that state man is to be perfected. Most are even commandments! Does God command us to do something He knows we cannot do? Obviously not. So, how can it be done?

Here’s how —
Jesus is begotten by God and born a complete human being and from his birth is fathered by God. He is perfected by His life unto complete obediance even unto death. Because of His obediance and sacrifice in love He is exalted and raised from the dead and at that time, sat upon the thrown of all the creation. He is given all power in heaven and earth.

The result of what Christ did? —–

We as full human beings have opportunity to START AGAIN and be fathered by God. We have a perfect pattern and example to follow in the human being, Jesus Christ. He is the “way”. We are imputed righteousness by the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross. When we fail we have a mediator that completely understands our plight and works on our behalf. Our sins are forgiven, giving us complete access to the same process of perfection which Jesus followed. We are filled with the same Holy Spirit (the Spirit of God) as Jesus to empower us to overcome. We are children of Yahweh and joint heirs with Jesus. He is our brother.

Yahweh is called the Father. Like all good Fathers, he focusses on fathering. Raising, equiping, forgiving, teaching, and rewarding are His focus. He wants mature children that grow to become like Him in nature and action. He looks upon His other children in the same way He looks upon Jesus.

Catholic doctrine and many others including Calvinism teach that man is totally depraved. They teach it so well that many balk at the idea that man can ever be perfected, even though scripture teaches us otherwise. Even though Jesus is the patern and example. Even though all things are possible with God. Even though he who began a good work will complete it, we still say, “yeah but”. Many use the excuse that we will be perfected once we get to heaven. This is included in Calvinism’s concept of once saved always saved. We do not need to strive or work toward perfection because God will do it all and we have no part in it. Are your children active participants in their growing up and maturing or do they just lay there and let you do everything?
Some use this aproach to mask a desire to justify and excuse continued sin. We become so used to the abnormal behaviour of sinfull man that we see Jesus as super normal or supernatural to
avoid the conclussion that all men should be likewise.
Some come to a complacent state of justification and say, “Well, we are all human and this is normal.” It is not that we have a fallen nature, it is that we choose to stay in a constant state of falling. We use Christ the God as a cop out and continue to justify and excuse our behaviour, saying we can never really overcome like Jesus because He is God. This is certainly not the teaching of Christ!
Some say the death of a mere human on the cross is not big enough for the sins of the world. Firstly it is God who decides that! Second – If you had a son that somehow was really perfect in every way, how much worth would you put in him? I am sure the Father feels the same way about His son. Remember, it says “He gave His only begotten son”. The emphasis not on Jesus being a God but on Jesus being His only begotten (born of Him) son.
The most important questions on teaching always must be, “Does this teaching draw me closer to Jesus or farther away?” “Does this teaching enable me to become like Jesus or hinder me from that goal. By degrading man and elevating Jesus to the status of a God, there becomes an unavoidable difference, seperation, and gulf between them. These concepts work completely against man’s calling and goal of becoming like Christ.

Yahweh’s focus is not on sin. There is no condemnation in Christ. Many of these doctrines focus so much on forgivness that They forget there is more beyond the cross. There is the resurection into new life. A life of growth in God. A life of being perfected by walking with God. A life of becoming like our brother Jesus. A life of being Fathered by Yahweh. Repentance is not just about getting forgiven, but about turning from our faults and overcoming. If that is not a perfect example of the perfecting process then I do not know what is.

Is God soveriegn as the Calvinist teach? Of course and if an almighty God, so is His creation of superior making and calling. There is a very subtle trap of Satan included in these doctrines. Under the guise of exalting God to a high position these doctrines fall into the trap of degrading His most precious creation. Satan knows he cannot destroy God, so he works to destroy the apple of God’s eye, His children. Satan knows that the more perfect man becomes the more danger to him and the shortening of his time on earth. Look at the damage done to Satan by one perfected man. What happens when there are millions walking the earth in the same relationship with God? Then you will see the great end time revival. Then you will see the true gospel preached in all the earth. Then you will see the perfect man of Ephesians. Then you will see us all speak the same thing because we have the same father and teacher.

Now for a moment I would like you to as much as possible set aside you Triune God thinking and consider this.

Can God change His very nature and stop being God?

Would God give us a commandment to be perfect if we cannot do it?

Would God gives us a pattern or example to follow to this perfection that starts out from the beginning being of a different nature then us?

Which makes more sense to you, that God would give us a patern of a completely different nature then our fully human makeup or that of a full human being just like us.

From a simple undertanding of God’s heart does the following make sense or not? That He could create a human seed to implant in Mary’s womb, that this child would be His only begotten son, that He would teach and raise him because He is the father and the end result be so very magnificent, that he is the example for all men. That this example would open the door for all of His brothers to enjoy the same blessings of their mutual father. That God, a loving and fair Father, would give us an example of the life, death of the flesh, and resurection of a fellow human being for our hope and vision.

[GeneBalthrop]

martian…….Amen brother, what you wrote is the truth, may God continue to bless you with understanding and continue to give you the ability to share it.

Peace to you and yours………..gene

[NickHassan]

Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 18 2008,02:20)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 16 2008,12:20) Hi martian, So your claim to be a son of God is because Adam was your dad and God was his? The Jews tried that one and it proved dysfunctional. Odd considering that it was God who made this original arrangement according to the OT…

Hi KJ,
Men are prodigal.
Lk 3 tells us we are sons of God.
But God no longer recognises the relationship.
Prodigal sons have to come to their senses and start walking in faith.

[NickHassan]

Quote (martian @ Feb. 18 2008,01:31)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 17 2008,17:24) Quote (martian @ Feb. 17 2008,02:03) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 16 2008,09:32) Hi Martian, Then you need to be born again. Rom8 9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. 12Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 15For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: Can a man of the Old Testament be born again? Can a man be filled with the Spirit without being born again? Exodus 31:3?”I have filled him with the Spirit of God in wisdom, in understanding, in knowledge, and in all kinds of craftsmanship Exodus 35:31?”And He has filled him with the Spirit of God, in wisdom, in understanding and in knowledge and in all craftsmanship Micah 3:8?On the other hand I am filled with power–With the Spirit of the LORD–And with justice and courage To make known to Jacob his rebellious act, Even to Israel his sin. There is one Spirit. That Spirit is God. That Spirit functions and reveals itself in many ways. To Adam it was the animating presence of God that gave him life. To Job it was that same Spirit of God that sustained his life. To Micah it was the anointing Spirit that filled him. To Jesus the one that anointed him and dwelled in fullness in him. To us the one that regenerates our human spirit continually and fills us. Hi martian, God chose men of old and anointed them with the Spirit of life unto eternity. We need to repent and be washed inwardly, symbolised by baptism, as we have all sinned, to be made fit for the treasure of the indwelling Spirit. So you believe that you need to be baptized to be fit to recieve the infilling of the spirit? And what happened to that theory at Cornellius' house. 44While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message. 45All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter answered, 47″Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?” 48And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days. These peope were filled with the Spirit in the same manner as the apostles before they were baptized.

Hi Martian,
Not at all.
God can do things in whichever way He chooses.
Does scripture say Cornelius and his friends were baptised in water?

[NickHassan]

Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 18 2008,02:20)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 16 2008,12:20) Hi martian, So your claim to be a son of God is because Adam was your dad and God was his? The Jews tried that one and it proved dysfunctional. Odd considering that it was God who made this original arrangement according to the OT…

Hi KJ,
Why do you show so much anger against God?

[NickHassan]

Hi martian,
You say
“To us the one that regenerates our human spirit continually and fills us.”

Where is the regeneration of the human spirit shown in scripture?
By US do you mean all men are filled with the Spirit of God?

[NickHassan]

Hi martian,
You say
“We as full human beings have opportunity to START AGAIN and be fathered by God. We have a perfect pattern and example to follow in the human being, Jesus Christ. He is the “way”. We are imputed righteousness by the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross. When we fail we have a mediator that completely understands our plight and works on our behalf. Our sins are forgiven, giving us complete access to the same process of perfection which Jesus followed. We are filled with the same Holy Spirit (the Spirit of God) as Jesus to empower us to overcome. We are  children of Yahweh and joint heirs with Jesus. He is our brother.”:

By OUR do you mean ALL MEN?
Do we not have to be reborn from above but all are saved?

[Author]

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