The Trinity Doctrine

Participant

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Hi Steve,
We should be in Christ being led by the Spirit and not just know him.

Nick;

That is so true. Romans 8:14

February 12, 2008 at 2:17 am#107540

NickHassan

Participant

Hi,
So if we are in Christ and led by the Spirit and worship God
how come some people say God is a trinity?

February 12, 2008 at 3:52 am#107541

Samuel

Participant

Luke 9:41 Then Jesus answered and said, “O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you and bear with you? Bring your son here.”

Jesus called the generation that he was in a faithless and perverse generation…I wonder what he would call this generation?

Mark 8:12 But He sighed deeply in His spirit, and said, “Why does this generation seek a sign? Assuredly, I say to you, no sign shall be given to this generation.”

Luke 21:32 “Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all things take place.

…I wonder

…if man will be bickering back and forth with each other when Jesus comes back for his church? What then will those men say to themselves at that hour?

The message at church this Sunday was about letting your light shine. Not your spotlight…your light…as a candle light.

No matter how dark it gets …it will never be able to overtake that little light. Light will always overcome darkness…it will never get so dark that the dark will overtake the light.

Peace be with you all…and GOD bless.

February 12, 2008 at 4:55 am#107542

GeneBalthrop

Participant

Martain….> i also believe that to what every difference a person sees Jesus different then himself, thats the degree they will never be like Him.
There are some here who just will not believe God took an ordinary man and perfected him into a perfect image of himself. They just doint grasp the power and purpose of our God.

Peace to you and yours brother……………gene

February 12, 2008 at 7:54 am#107543

Participant

Gen. You seem to not understand that Jesus was not just a mere man when God brought Him forth. He was there with the Father before the world was. And there are scriptures to prove that. What He did do for us is, that He gave up that glory and did become a mere man to be like us. But Jesus had all of God's Spirit full strength, that is how He was able to teach as a 12 year old child. I grasp very well what our Heavenly Father has done for us. He send His only begotten Son. Notice SEND, He had to be somewhere to be able to be send Him to the earth.
You know I had a problem with this belief too at first, it took me awhile to understand, but God would not let it go and the Holy Spirit brought it up to me over and over again, till I understood. Do me a favor for yourself, not for me, and read those scriptures over and over again. Col. 1:15-18, Rev. 3:14, Proverb 8:22-30.
And who was us that created the world. It was the Word by the power of the Father.
John 1:1
Peace and Love to you Gen.

February 12, 2008 at 2:45 pm#107544

Participant

Quote (Mr. Steve @ Feb. 12 2008,11:00)

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Really the scripture is the only way you can know Jesus? You do not know Christ experiancially? So you ar saying that all you know is what you have read in scripture about salvation? You have never experianced salvation?

So mentally knowing that we are supposed to be like Christ is enough? We do not actually have to be like Christ?

Mentally knowing about the plan of God is enough?
We do not need to follow the plan?

Martian;

Jesus said not every one that saith unto me, “Lord, Lord, will enter the Kingdom of Heaven but he that does the will of the Father, which is in heaven.”

With respect to the original issue of how to know Christ, the scriptures are the authority of whether or not we have a relationship with Christ. Our doctrines must be established upon the scriptures. You mentioned many of them in your prior post, which are durived from the scriptures, so must contend the same yourself; e.g., He is just, He is love, omniscient etc.

Steven

The problem with your idea is exemplified on this board. There are varieties of ways in whicj people interpret scriptures. One is right and the others are all wrong. Since no one is going to admit their interpretation is wrong, you need find another way to ascertain what is correct.
The purpose of scripture is to be a guide through the plan of ?God to become like Christ. If yur particular interpretation does not do that, then your intrpretation is wrong.

February 12, 2008 at 4:28 pm#107545

Participant

Quote (martian @ Feb. 13 2008,01:45)

Quote (Mr. Steve @ Feb. 12 2008,11:00)

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So mentally knowing that we are supposed to be like Christ is enough? We do not actually have to be like Christ?

Mentally knowing about the plan of God is enough?
We do not need to follow the plan?

Martian;

Jesus said not every one that saith unto me, “Lord, Lord, will enter the Kingdom of Heaven but he that does the will of the Father, which is in heaven.”

Steven

Martian! Have you ever wondered why there are so many interpretation of the Scriptures or understanding of the scriptures? I belief it is not necessary that we are all wrong, but that we all grow in different ways. One might understand perfectly about that Jesus for instant preexisted before the world was, and another might not understand and deny it. It really takes time. God does not give us His plan and truth all at once. I have hope that He will let me know when He wants me to know a truth that I have missed. I have experienced when I read a Scripture one time and when I read it again I see more truth that I did not see before. It is like a light bulb just went on. That is how we grow to become more like Christ I believe.

Peaceand Love Mrs.

February 12, 2008 at 4:40 pm#107546

GeneBalthrop

Participant

to all…..> the problem with giving Jesus unreal advantages is this. one it seperates his exact likesness from us, which deminishes our chances of being (exactly) like Him, two, it creates an object of worship other then the one God and causes Idolatry. Jesus know who to worship and it wasn't himself, even tell a person” why call (ME) good, theres only one good ,and thats God”. The problem with prexistenest and trinitarians is they worship the messenger and are not listening to the message. Jesus who life was to show us how to have a right relationship with the Father, and plainly said He could do nothing by himself, hardly the words of a superman or a creator of all things would say. Here's what Jesus said “HEAR O ISRAEL THE LORD OUR GOD IS (ONE LORD)> not two or three trinune gods in any form or essences. He also said ” THOU ART THE (ONLY) TRUE GOD> whats so hard to understand about that. Anyone who worships anything as a God or creator is as Jesus said, ” a Liar and a thief”. God plainly said He created the world and everything in it (BY HIS SELF) . And He also said He gives His glory to No Man and i believe Jesus was a man. “For the is one God and one medeatror between God and man, the (MAN) Jesus Christ”. All the words you us to glorify Jesus you should be using to glorify the one who created him and sent him, God the Father. Jesus was not about Himself, he was about the Father.

IMO……..gene

February 12, 2008 at 4:44 pm#107547

Participant

What does it mean to be created in the image of God?
Genesis 1:27?God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
Looking at two words in the Hebrew bring a clearer understanding of this verse.
Create in this verse is the word “bara”. It does not mean to create from nothing. Creating from nothing is an abstract idea and would have been impossible for the Hebrew concrete thinkers to understand. If “bara” meant create from nothing, it would contradict other verses that say man was created (bara) from the dust of the Earth. (Gen 2:7)
The root words from which bara derive their meaning are “bar” meaning grain and also meaning fat. It is used in Gen 41:4
“The ugly and gaunt cows ate up the seven sleek and fat (bara) cows. Then Pharaoh awoke.”
From these root words comes the understanding of bara meaning full or to fill.
When Genesis is seen from this perspective it takes on a different picture. Gen 1:1
In the beginning God filled the heavens and the earth. The earth was empty and unfilled, …..
Much of the OT is written in Hebrew poetry called parallelism. A phrase is said twice in two different ways, giving a richer meaning while essentially saying the same thing. The creation story is a perfect example. The first three days describe separating of skies and land and the last three days describe the “filling up” of the skies and land.
Day 1 Separation of light and dark = day 4 filling with sun and moon
Day 2 separation of water and sky = day 5 filling with fishes and birds.
Day three separation of water and land = day 6 land filled with animals and man.
Consequintly bara (creator) means “one who fills”.

Now the word “image”
Tselem (Heb) is translated in other verses as “idol” meaning shadow or representation of their god. Just as a shadow is the representation or image of the original. Genesis also says that God “breathed” into Adam nostrils and he became a living being. This word breath is also tied to tslem. Breath has another applicable meaning which is character. Though man is formed from the dust of the Earth, he is unlike the animals in that he was filled with the shadow/breath/character of God. We were made to be a duplicate of God’s character.
The character of man is supposed to operate as a shadow or representative of the character of God.

At the fall man lost this character and no one had gained it back until Jesus.

Jesus is the full expression of this truth.
Col 1:16
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
He is the exact shadow of God
John 5:19
Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner.

Hebrews 1:3?And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

While up to this time Jesus seems unique, He is not meant to be unique. He came to teach us our full potential.

February 12, 2008 at 5:06 pm#107548

Participant

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The problem with your idea is exemplified on this board.

Martian;

Upon what facts do you support your contention of the above with respect to my posts?

Steven

February 12, 2008 at 5:38 pm#107549

Participant

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Seek and You will Find;

Well done. He was in the world and the world was made by him and the world knew him not.

Let them alone, they be blind leaders of the blind. But if the blind lead the blind, both will fall into the ditch.

Proverbs says the whore is described as being a deep ditch. The leaders of today's church are leading the sheep into the ditch-The Anti-Christ, the great whore of Revelation.

Steven

February 12, 2008 at 7:29 pm#107550

Participant

Quote (Mr. Steve @ Feb. 13 2008,04:06)

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The problem with your idea is exemplified on this board.

Martian;

Upon what facts do you support your contention of the above with respect to my posts?

Steven

I was refering to the fact that reading English translations and giving opinions of what God means has little credibility for any of us.
That is the reason why I chose to use scripture to establish only the plan of God. A Plan that is generally acepted by most Christins. If our interpretation does not line up with it then the interpretation must be wrong.

February 12, 2008 at 10:10 pm#107551

Participant

Quote

Quote (Mr. Steve @ Feb. 13 2008,04:06)
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The problem with your idea is exemplified on this board.

Martian;

Upon what facts do you support your contention of the above with respect to my posts?

Steven

Martian;

You may be right in some respects. However, the Jews knew Greek and Hebrew and few of them believed.

Language is necessarily the best representation of what the scripture intends to convey. Jesus said what's easier to say, rise and walk, or thy sins be forgiven thee. He also gave many parables with the intent that those who had ears to hear would hear. I believe what Jesus was trying to tell us was that if you want to believe the truth you will seek and find it. If you don't then why cast your pearls before swine.

Take care

Steven

February 13, 2008 at 12:17 am#107552

Participant

Quote (martian @ Feb. 13 2008,06:29)

Quote (Mr. Steve @ Feb. 13 2008,04:06)

Quote

The problem with your idea is exemplified on this board.

Martian;

Upon what facts do you support your contention of the above with respect to my posts?

Steven

Martian I don't think that God cares what any dinomination's belief is. God looks at the Heart of a Person and if He or She is truly seeking God. That what I think is most important. The rest He has left to Christ. He has given us to Christ and Christ will not loose those that the Father has given to Him. Jesus word, not mine. But We need to be a willing participant. But many are called, but few are chosen. So what does all of this mean? Will the rest of mankind be lost forever? I think that He will give all a second chance in the millinium, when only the truth will be taught by Jesus and His elect and those million of believers who have washed their robes white in the Blood of the Lamb. Rev. 7:11-16
Satan was in chains during the millinium, but afterwards will be loosed to test all and millions will be deceived and will get the lake of fire with Him and Antichrist. Which is called the second death. Rev. 20
Rev. 21 brings in a new Jerusalem from Heaven . No more tears and no more sorrow. God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.
Rev. 21: 3 And I heard a voice from Heaven saying :” Behold the tabernacle of God is with men, amd He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be with them and be their God.”……..

That is my hope that one day I will be there. Like David I cry out to God saying I rather be a Doorman in the House of God, then a King here on this earth today. Singing praised to our God forever more, Glory to our God on High. Amen and Amen.

Peace and Love Mrs.

February 13, 2008 at 12:59 am#107553

Samuel

Participant

I honestly can't see how a debate such as this can be fogging up the mind of Christians.

No matter weather we believe in a Triune GOD or a Oneness GOD…

Still the only name by which we are going to be found without sin, and or be forgiven of sin and allowed to enter the kingdom of heaven is the name JESUS CHRIST.

That man is the only way we are getting to what ever way we choose to believe in the ONE GOD.

That son, that man, that name…

JESUS CHRIST

Is there really any more explanation needed?
I mean come on people, it is rather silly actually. What do you think Jesus Christ would say to us if he were here right now?

Look at us. Is this the work he sent us out to do?

To bicker back and forth with one another, and create confusion? Some times its best to just turn the other check. And have faith and rejoice with one another that we have indeed heard the truth. Thus, sharing it with the world. Not condemn them.

I have to suck my pride up and submit this flesh daily.

DAILY

Its a task that we all must do. What if there is an unsaved person listening to all of this? What would they think? What of all this confusion? I certainly don't want to stand before GOD one day and answer as to way I started all this confusion and turned people away from GOD.

Our pride has to go people. We really need to lay down some things here and just step away.

February 13, 2008 at 2:40 pm#107554

Participant

Quote (seek and you will find @ Feb. 13 2008,11:17)

Quote (martian @ Feb. 13 2008,06:29)

Quote (Mr. Steve @ Feb. 13 2008,04:06)

Quote

The problem with your idea is exemplified on this board.

Martian;

Upon what facts do you support your contention of the above with respect to my posts?

Steven

Peace and Love Mrs.

In so far as salvation goes I can agree with you that most doctrines are non esential. But the fact is that many Christians have camped at salvation and never progressed onward to maturity. Jesus is not returning for a bride that is still botle fed or playing with Barbies. He is coming for a bride that has made herself ready and is with out spot or wrinkle. For this, teachings that mature the saints are very important.
Teachings that hinder growth are not of God. All teachings must work to bring about the maturing of God's children.
When ask to accept a doctrine, that is the first question I ask….. What does it do to help me become like Christ?

February 13, 2008 at 3:29 pm#107555

Participant

Quote (Samuel @ Feb. 13 2008,11:59)

I honestly can't see how a debate such as this can be fogging up the mind of Christians.

No matter weather we believe in a Triune GOD or a Oneness GOD…

Still the only name by which we are going to be found without sin, and or be forgiven of sin and allowed to enter the kingdom of heaven is the name JESUS CHRIST.

That man is the only way we are getting to what ever way we choose to believe in the ONE GOD.

That son, that man, that name…

JESUS CHRIST

Is there really any more explanation needed?
I mean come on people, it is rather silly actually. What do you think Jesus Christ would say to us if he were here right now?

Look at us. Is this the work he sent us out to do?

I have to suck my pride up and submit this flesh daily.

DAILY

Our pride has to go people. We really need to lay down some things here and just step away.

I agree, but then this board would go out of business. This is an entertainment venue for me. I do not take it very seriously. I am still working on a book on this subject and use these boards to cross check my conclussions.

February 13, 2008 at 4:51 pm#107556

GeneBalthrop

Participant

martian…….> would like to get a copy of your book when completed. And contrary to Samuels assesment i believe these descussions bring up true evaluations of teachings that i believe are important to Christian development. The topics of Trinity, Prexistence, Free Will, eternal Hell fire, all tie together and are critical in proper understanding of God's word and a wrong understanding of these destort a persons preception of the ONE AND ONLY GOD, as well as the absolute SOVEREIGNTY OF GOD.
Trinity, Prexistence, Free Will, doctrines all go against the Savoriness of our God, and need to be exposed for what they are. These false teachings have presented God the Father and Jesus in a untrue light and have for centuries caused great abuses and suffering in the minds and hearts of people all over the world and still do. They are against not only Christ but God the Father also. I have read your posts and believe they are over all sound and express a deeper understanding of these truths written in the word of God. Keep up the good work.

peace to you and yours…………gene

February 13, 2008 at 5:18 pm#107557

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 14 2008,03:51)

peace to you and yours…………gene

Gen. Why does preexsisting of Jesus go against the Soveirnty of God? You are wrong when you say that Jesus did not exist before the world was. Scipture tell me that He was.
Col.1:15-18 Rec. 3:14 Proverbs 8:22-30

February 13, 2008 at 6:28 pm#107558