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Hi Steve,
That is not what has been said.He is from above.
But it made him no different to other ordinary men.
The abilities he demonstrated had nothing to do with his origins but the grace and anointing of his God.Quote Hi Steve,
The gnostic heresy promoted by the Whore as trinity, derives it's foundation from the presentation of Christ, not as a man, but as God or a superman. We need to abhor such dangerous falsehoods and know that Christ was just a man, of unusual origins, specially chosen and guided but that he is our Lord and the captain of our salvation, one we can folllow into rebirth by water and the Spirit.Nick;
Jesus said he was sent down from heaven from the Father God. That makes him a son at the time he was sent. That's what I believe.
Now you believe that Jesus was a mere man of “unsual origins” and you are warning me of gnosticism.
Steven
Hi Steve,
Why do you believe that he was not an ordinary man but one with a head start because of his origins?
Can you not follow him because of his origins?Quote Hi Steve,
Why do you believe that he was not an ordinary man but one with a head start because of his origins?
Can you not follow him because of his origins?When he was twelve he astonished those in the temple. That's a head start. Creaing the world is a head start. It is your presumption that he cannot be followed if he is different origin, not mine.
Steven
Hi Steve,
Was his abilities in the temple because he was not an ordinary human
or because his Father had been very active in parenting him?God was with him.[Acts 10]
Quote Hi Steve,
Was his abilities in the temple because he was not an ordinary human
or because his Father had been very active in parenting him?God was with him.[Acts 10]
Jesus performed the works that no other man did because he had been given the power from the Father to do so. God is with us, too, but we only have the earnest of the Spirit. John said God gave not the spirit by measure unto him. We see through a glass darkly, Jesus saw perfectly.
Nick;
You started by contending that Jesus was no different. Now you are shifting the argument by saying he was different because… So you must see my point.
Quote (Mr. Steve @ Feb. 12 2008,08:39) Quote Hi Steve,
Was his abilities in the temple because he was not an ordinary human
or because his Father had been very active in parenting him?God was with him.[Acts 10]
Jesus performed the works that no other man did because he had been given the power from the Father to do so. God is with us, too, but we only have the earnest of the Spirit. John said God gave not the spirit by measure unto him. We see through a glass darkly, Jesus saw perfectly.
Hi Steve,
So it is by the same Spirit of God that Christ was filled with that we also can live and work. Yes we are not the head of the body but only the branches of his vine. We only have more limited roles appointed to us but like Christ we are vessels for the use of God.Eph 3
16That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;17That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
18May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
19And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
20Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,
Quote (Mr. Steve @ Feb. 12 2008,08:44) Nick; You started by contending that Jesus was no different. Now you are shifting the argument by saying he was different because… So you must see my point.
Hi Steve,
Were the prophets just ordinary men used of God?
Chosen and empowered, yes, but ordinary men.Jer1
4Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,5Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
6Then said I, Ah, Lord GOD! behold, I cannot speak: for I am a child.
7But the LORD said unto me, Say not, I am a child: for thou shalt go to all that I shall send thee, and whatsoever I command thee thou shalt speak.
8Be not afraid of their faces: for I am with thee to deliver thee, saith the LORD.
9Then the LORD put forth his hand, and touched my mouth. And the LORD said unto me, Behold, I have put my words in thy mouth.
10See, I have this day set thee over the nations and over the kingdoms, to root out, and to pull down, and to destroy, and to throw down, to build, and to plant.
Quote Quote (Mr. Steve @ Feb. 12 2008,08:44)
Nick;You started by contending that Jesus was no different. Now you are shifting the argument by saying he was different because… So you must see my point.
Hi Steve,
Were the prophets just ordinary men used of God?
Chosen and empowered, yes, but ordinary men.Jer1
4Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,5Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
6Then said I, Ah, Lord GOD! behold, I cannot speak: for I am a child.
7But the LORD said unto me, Say not, I am a child: for thou shalt go to all that I shall send thee, and whatsoever I command thee thou shalt speak.
8Be not afraid of their faces: for I am with thee to deliver thee, saith the LORD.
9Then the LORD put forth his hand, and touched my mouth. And the LORD said unto me, Behold, I have put my words in thy mouth.
10See, I have this day set thee over the nations and over the kingdoms, to root out, and to pull down, and to destroy, and to throw down, to build, and to plant.
Yes, all of the prophets were ordinary men used by God. The difference between Jeremiah and Jesus is substantial.
Jeremiah said that God knew him when he was in the womb…
Jesus said I knew God before the foundation of the world.
Hi Steve,
Does this knowledge make him so different from us?
He is not recorded as speaking of this knowledge before he was anointed at the Jordan.
One of the roles of the Spirit is to teach and remind so I would expect he did not know all the detail of his origins till then.Quote Hi Steve,
Does this knowledge make him so different from us?
He is not recorded as speaking of this knowledge before he was anointed at the Jordan.
One of the roles of the Spirit is to teach and remind so I would expect he did not know all the detail of his origins till then.The only words that are recorded that he spoke was “why were you looking for me, I must be about my Father's business.” At age 12 he was already aware he was the Son of God and spoke of things that astonished the Jews in the temple. He uses the language “I must be…”, which indicates he was fully aware of his divine purpose as the Son of God, to destroy the works of the devil. A better argument is that he knew his destiny at age 12, not that he didn't, because he knew truths from the scriptures that many learned individuals did not know or want to accept, that he was the Son of God for starters.
Therefore, the baptism at Jordan marked the time of the annointing for his ministry, but not the knowledge he had prior.
There is a hint in the scriptures that reveals Christ may have performed a few miracles at home for mom prior to being baptized. Before he had performed any miracles, he was at a wedding with his mother and they were out of wine. She turns to Jesus and says Jesus there out of wine. He responds, woman what do I have to do with you my hour is not come. However, she turns to the others and says whatsoever he says to you do it. He knew what she wanted and consented. So why would she ask such a thing if hadn't done anything supernatural prior known by his mom? Oh, Joseph were out of milk, can you get some please? I'm pretty busy, where's Jesus?
Steven
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 12 2008,09:08) Hi Steve,
Does this knowledge make him so different from us?
He is not recorded as speaking of this knowledge before he was anointed at the Jordan.
One of the roles of the Spirit is to teach and remind so I would expect he did not know all the detail of his origins till then.
I don't know if I want to agree with you or not because of what John 17:5 says.
And now O Father glorify Me together with Yourself with the glory which I had with you before the world was. He was aware of that so I belief He knew that He preexisted.Peace and Love Mrs.
Mr. Steve,
I could go into a Western Thinking diatribe of scriptural proofs and dissecting Greek verbs ect and Yadi Yadi Yadi.
There are certainly things that are important to be considered part of the Christian faith.
The first is to understand that scripture is not the measuring rod or the standard by which we or our doctrines are judged. Jesus is the standard and how much we become like him is the plan and the standard by which we will be judged. Too many Christians today have a mental ascension Christianity. It is all wrapped up in abstract thought and philosophical thinking. Consequintly before anyone goes off running over scripture after scripture in attempts to prove their pet theory, they should ask a very few basic questions about it.
1.Does the doctrine contradict basic “physical” attributes of God.. ie: immutability, He is spirit,
2.Does the doctrine contradict aspects of God’s character. Ie: He is just, He is love, omniscient ect.
3.How does the doctrine help me to become more like Christ?
4.How does the doctrine make Christ a more viable example for me to follow?
5.How does the doctrine promote and strengthen the plan of God?If a person’s theory brings negative answers to any of these questions it cannot be a true doctrine. It does not matter what scriptures they use to prove it. Their end conclusions are wrong therefore their interpretation of the scriptures has a flaw.
Quote The first is to understand that scripture is not the measuring rod or the standard by which we or our doctrines are judged. Hi Martian;
I'm not sure what you may be referring to that I have presented which conflicts with your beliefs.
However, when you say that the scripture is not the measuring rod I fully disagree. Even after Peter was on the Mount of Transfiguration and heard the voice of the Father declare this is my beloved son…, he states we have a more sure word of prophecy “the scriptures” You can only know Christ by the scriptures.
Quote I don't know if I want to agree with you or not because of what John 17:5 says.
And now O Father glorify Me together with Yourself with the glory which I had with you before the world was. He was aware of that so I belief He knew that He preexisted.Peace and Love Mrs.
It's amazing how clear the truth is if read without an agenda to prove the contrary.
Steven
Quote (seek and you will find @ Feb. 12 2008,09:34) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 12 2008,09:08) Hi Steve,
Does this knowledge make him so different from us?
He is not recorded as speaking of this knowledge before he was anointed at the Jordan.
One of the roles of the Spirit is to teach and remind so I would expect he did not know all the detail of his origins till then.
I don't know if I want to agree with you or not because of what John 17:5 says.
And now O Father glorify Me together with Yourself with the glory which I had with you before the world was. He was aware of that so I belief He knew that He preexisted.Peace and Love Mrs.
What does it say was with God from the beginning? The glory was withGod not literally Jesus. So God had a plan for a Messiah and set aside glory for the one that would fulfill that minisry.Quote (Mr. Steve @ Feb. 12 2008,09:57) Quote The first is to understand that scripture is not the measuring rod or the standard by which we or our doctrines are judged. Hi Martian;
I'm not sure what you may be referring to that I have presented which conflicts with your beliefs.
However, when you say that the scripture is not the measuring rod I fully disagree. Even after Peter was on the Mount of Transfiguration and heard the voice of the Father declare this is my beloved son…, he states we have a more sure word of prophecy “the scriptures” You can only know Christ by the scriptures.
Really the scripture is the only way you can know Jesus? You do not know Christ experiancially? So you ar saying that all you know is what you have read in scripture about salvation? You have never experianced salvation?So mentally knowing that we are supposed to be like Christ is enough? We do not actually have to be like Christ?
Mentally knowing about the plan of God is enough?
We do not need to follow the plan?Quote Really the scripture is the only way you can know Jesus? You do not know Christ experiancially? So you ar saying that all you know is what you have read in scripture about salvation? You have never experianced salvation? So mentally knowing that we are supposed to be like Christ is enough? We do not actually have to be like Christ?
Mentally knowing about the plan of God is enough?
We do not need to follow the plan?Martian;
Jesus said not every one that saith unto me, “Lord, Lord, will enter the Kingdom of Heaven but he that does the will of the Father, which is in heaven.”
With respect to the original issue of how to know Christ, the scriptures are the authority of whether or not we have a relationship with Christ. Our doctrines must be established upon the scriptures. You mentioned many of them in your prior post, which are durived from the scriptures, so must contend the same yourself; e.g., He is just, He is love, omniscient etc.
Steven
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