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Oh there is so much some people don't yet understand. God, Jesus, and the Holdy Ghost are all one in the same. Jesus wasn't fully man and fully God. Jesus was God in a man's body. He was fully God in a man's body. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily (colo. 2:9).
For in him being Jesus, what dwelleth in him was the fulness of the Godhead.
Where did it dwelleth was a body. We called the body Jesus. Also known as Emmanuel which being interpreted is, what, God with us.
Did you see that. God with us, not someone else, it was God.
They are not separate.
Is. 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The might God, The everlastin Father, The Prince of Peace.
Ok so we all know the son is Jesus. So the son is either The mighty God, The everlasting Father.
Or there are now two God(s) and two Father(s). So which is it are they one in the same or are there two gods and two fathers.
Quote (you decide @ Dec. 30 2007,07:42) Oh there is so much some people don't yet understand. God, Jesus, and the Holdy Ghost are all one in the same. Jesus wasn't fully man and fully God. Jesus was God in a man's body. He was fully God in a man's body. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily (colo. 2:9). For in him being Jesus, what dwelleth in him was the fulness of the Godhead.
Where did it dwelleth was a body. We called the body Jesus. Also known as Emmanuel which being interpreted is, what, God with us.
Did you see that. God with us, not someone else, it was God.
They are not separate.
Is. 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The might God, The everlastin Father, The Prince of Peace.
Ok so we all know the son is Jesus. So the son is either The mighty God, The everlasting Father.
Or there are now two God(s) and two Father(s). So which is it are they one in the same or are there two gods and two fathers.
Isiah 9/6 this scripture is used often to prove that Jesus is God …..For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given; And the government will be upon his shoulder. And his name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there will be no end, upon the throne of David and over his kingdom, to order it and establish it with judgment and justice from that time forward, even forever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this…..First notice that it says a child is born. Not a God comes down from heaven but a child is born. He was born, began, begotten. He had a beginning. He was not eternal. In other words a human. Let me bring your attention to the fact that it says his name will be called Mighty God and Everlasting Father. It does not say he IS the mighty God and everlasting Father. In the ancient Hebrew the term name as is translated in our modern text is not used as an identifier but rather is best translated as character trait. The fact that Jesus came in His Father’s name simple means He had the character of God.
Jesus was just a body? Not according to scripture.
Luke 23/46 …. Crying out with a loud voice, Jesus said, Father into your hands I commit my spirit. With these words he gave up his spirit……. Note it says his spirit and not Ruach HaKodesh ( Hebrew, The Holy Spirit). The literal Greek calls it…. the spirit of me…. This is not the Spirit of Yahweh but his human spirit. Did Jesus have a will of his own? John 5/30 … I (Jesus) do not seek my own will but the will of him who sent me…. This verse indicates that Jesus had a choice to seek His own will or that of the Father’s. Matthew 26/39 ….. Yet not as I will, but as Thou wilt. Again Jesus had his own will but refused to let it overshadow what God wanted and willed. Did Jesus have a soul? Matthew 26/38… My (Jesus) soul is deeply grieved, to the point of death….
So now we have proven that Jesus was made up of a human body, soul, spirit and will. Since it is clear that Jesus is made up of these parts, we have to ask ourselves, what part is God? This sounds like a complete human being to me!You say they are not separate?
So God died on the cross? God gave up his spirit. God has a soul?You say –
k so we all know the son is Jesus. So the son is either The mighty God, The everlasting Father.Or there are now two God(s) and two Father(s). So which is it are they one in the same or are there two gods and two fathers.
—-or—-
Isa 9 as accurately translated says that Jesus came in the character of the Everlasting Father and mighty God.
Quote He was fully God in a man's body. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily (colo. 2:9). Did Christ have in himself something that is his because he is God, part of a Trinity? Or is “the fullness” that dwells in him something that became his because of the decision of someone else? Colossians 1:19 (KJ, Dy) says that all fullness dwelt in Christ because it “pleased the Father” for this to be the case. NE says it was “by God’s own choice.”
Was the apostle Paul there saying that the “fulness” that was in Christ made Christ God himself? Not according to Colossians 3:1, where Christ is said to be “seated at the right hand of God.”—See KJ, Dy, TEV, NAB.
According to Liddell and Scott’s Greek-English Lexicon, the·o′tes (the nominative form, from which the·o′te·tos is derived) means “divinity, divine nature.” (Oxford, 1968, p. 792) Being truly “divinity,” or of “divine nature,” does not make Jesus as the Son of God coequal and coeternal with the Father, any more than the fact that all humans share “humanity” or “human nature” makes them coequal or all the same age.
2 PET 1:4 says that others would “become sharers in divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world through lust.”
Obviously, these others which would have “divine nature” are not part of a trinity.
Yes, some Bible's written by trinitarians like to put the word “Godhead” in there, but really, that word just means “divine nature.”Quote For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead “because [God] saw good for all fullness to dwell in him,” (Col 1:19)
Again, a distinction.
Quote Or there are now two God(s) and two Father(s). So which is it are they one in the same or are there two gods and two fathers. The word “God” means “mighty one.” Only Jehovah (the Father) is God “Almighty.” Only he is the true God compared to all others, including Jesus.
Relatively speaking, Jehovah is the only true God. Does this mean that Jesus, and even the angel (who are called “gods”) and the Isrealite judges (who were called “gods”) and Satan the devil (who is called a “god”) are not “mighty ones”?
Clearly, they are mighty. But not almighty, a word used to describe Jehovah 43 times in the Bible.Yes, Jesus is called “Mighty God.”
But Jehovah is called “Almighty” God some 43 times.
That is the difference.Quote (david @ Dec. 30 2007,08:30) Quote He was fully God in a man's body. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily (colo. 2:9). Did Christ have in himself something that is his because he is God, part of a Trinity? Or is “the fullness” that dwells in him something that became his because of the decision of someone else? Colossians 1:19 (KJ, Dy) says that all fullness dwelt in Christ because it “pleased the Father” for this to be the case. NE says it was “by God’s own choice.”
Was the apostle Paul there saying that the “fulness” that was in Christ made Christ God himself? Not according to Colossians 3:1, where Christ is said to be “seated at the right hand of God.”—See KJ, Dy, TEV, NAB.
According to Liddell and Scott’s Greek-English Lexicon, the·o′tes (the nominative form, from which the·o′te·tos is derived) means “divinity, divine nature.” (Oxford, 1968, p. 792) Being truly “divinity,” or of “divine nature,” does not make Jesus as the Son of God coequal and coeternal with the Father, any more than the fact that all humans share “humanity” or “human nature” makes them coequal or all the same age.
2 PET 1:4 says that others would “become sharers in divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world through lust.”
Obviously, these others which would have “divine nature” are not part of a trinity.
Yes, some Bible's written by trinitarians like to put the word “Godhead” in there, but really, that word just means “divine nature.”Quote For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead “because [God] saw good for all fullness to dwell in him,” (Col 1:19)
Again, a distinction.
Quote Or there are now two God(s) and two Father(s). So which is it are they one in the same or are there two gods and two fathers. The word “God” means “mighty one.” Only Jehovah (the Father) is God “Almighty.” Only he is the true God compared to all others, including Jesus.
Relatively speaking, Jehovah is the only true God. Does this mean that Jesus, and even the angel (who are called “gods”) and the Isrealite judges (who were called “gods”) and Satan the devil (who is called a “god”) are not “mighty ones”?
Clearly, they are mighty. But not almighty, a word used to describe Jehovah 43 times in the Bible.Yes, Jesus is called “Mighty God.”
But Jehovah is called “Almighty” God some 43 times.
That is the difference.
David That makes all the diffrence in the word when you realize that there is Jesus God and the Father the Almighty God. Also in Epheasians 4:6 it says that the Father God is above all an in us all. That makes the trinity doctrine so false.Peace and Love Mrs.
I think it is much simpler then going to those distinctions. AS I posts about Isa 9 the term “name” means character or reputation in the Hebrew.
Also the understanding that the Hebrews aften treated a revealing of God in the natural realm as an apearance of God himself. That is why Moses bowd to a burning vush and related to it as if it were God Himelf. Moses was not confused about God being a burning bush. YHWH was revealed in the Bush as He was revealed and the perfect repesentation in Jesus.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 29 2007,10:15) Quote (martian @ Dec. 29 2007,09:58) WJ,
I notice you prefer to use the name Yeshua rather then Jesus. Why is that?
Because the name Yeshua or Yahshua is closer to the original text.I am not hung up on it for I use both.
Martian
Quote But the English translation is Jesus. Yes, as I said I am not hung up on it. The fact is we don’t know the exact pronunciation ot Jesus name just as we do not know the Fathers.
Quote Why do you follow a translation that is closer to the original text and yet do not follow that principle with “Holy Spirit” A translation closer to the original text would be Breath set asside for a special purposr or simply special breath. So you think that all of the scriptures that uses the term Holy Spirit should be translated “Breath”?
First, you would deny hundreds of translations that use the term Holy Spirit and not breath. Secondly you are limiting the Spirit to just a “special breath”.
How would that work in the following scriptures?
Eph 4:20
And *grieve not* the (special breath) of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.Rom 11:8
(According as it is written, God hath given them the (special breath) of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.2 Cor 7:1
Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and (special breath), perfecting holiness in the fear of God.The three scriptures above is examples of the greek word “pneuma” being used in a way that is not always meaning a “special breath” of God.
The word “pneuma” means;
1) the third person of the triune God, the Holy Spirit, coequal, coeternal with the Father and the Son
a) sometimes referred to in a way which emphasises his personality and character (the “Holy” Spirit)
b) sometimes referred to in a way which emphasises his work and power (the Spirit of “Truth”)
c) never referred to as a depersonalised force
2) the spirit, i.e. the vital principal by which the body is animated
a) the rational spirit, the power by which the human being feels, thinks, decides
b) the soul
3) a spirit, i.e. a simple essence, devoid of all or at least all grosser matter, and possessed of the power of knowing, desiring, deciding, and acting
a) a life giving spirit
b) a human soul that has left the body
c) a spirit higher than man but lower than God, i.e. an angel
1) used of demons, or evil spirits, who were conceived as inhabiting the bodies of men
2) the spiritual nature of Christ, higher than the highest angels and equal to God, the divine nature of Christ
4) the disposition or influence which fills and governs the soul of any one
a) the efficient source of any power, affection, emotion, desire, etc.
5) a movement of air (a gentle blast)
a) of the wind, hence the wind itself
b) breath of nostrils or mouthBut you would limit the greek language for the spirit to have only one meaning! Breath is only one characteristic of the Spirit.
Good hermaneutics requires the reader or translators to consider the context of the word.Quote Could it be that if you were to translate it properly it would take away from your preconcieved idea that the Holy Spirit is a person? No it couldn’t be. Again, you say that because a greek word in most cases is translated a certain way then in all cases it should be. In fact you said something about me bailing out of a conversation with you because I wouldn’t discuss proper hermaneutical principles with you. Which is untrue. I wouldn’t agree with you and infact proved the word “Logos” did not always mean a saying.
Here is an example of how your idea of hermaneutics dosn’t work.
Lets look at the Greek word “aggelos” , which means…
a messenger, envoy, one who is sent, an angel, a messenger from GodAlmost exclusively the word is translated “Angels” and literally refers to Angels. 186 times you will find the word in the NT scriptures of that 179 times it is “Angels” and 7 times it is translated messenger.
Example…
Matt 1:20
But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel (aggelos) of the LORD appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.Luke 7:27,28
This is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.So by your logic the interpreters should have held to the 179 times the context for “aggelos” was speaking of Angels and interpreted Luke 7:27,28 as an Angel from God. However we know John was not an Angel for he was born of a woman. Unless you believe like the JWS that Angels can take on human flesh.
Quote You see my point. You are willing to follow the proper hermaneutical principle in the case of the name Jesus because it supports your doctrine but abandon them when it goes against your doctrine. A perfect example of your doctrine interpreting scripture rather then scripture interpreting doctrine. This is not honesty with scripture. If you agree with determining original meanings of words then carry it through in all cases. Not just the ones that benifit your doctrine. None of the major translators that I know of use “special breath” in there translation for the Holy Spirit! In fact all of the translations on biblegateway and blueletterbible use the personal pronouns “he” “him” in relation to the Holy Spirit. That’s over 600 scholars that you would say mistranslated the scriptures.
But lets look and see why they did this. Lets use Jn 16:13.
Jhn 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
You would interpret it…
Jhn 16:13 Howbeit when “it”, the “special breath” of truth, is come, “it” will guide you into all truth: for “it” shall not speak of “itself”; but whatsoever “it” shall hear, that shall “it” speak: and “it” will shew you things to come.
Sounds like someth
ig from another world! Twighlight Zone!So if the Spirit is not a person then why did the translators translate Jn 16:13 and others with the personal pronouns?
Lets look at the greek words surrounding the pronouns and see if we can understand why.
The verse says the Spirit of truth will…
”Come”… erchomai, which means…
1) to come
a) of persons
1) to come from one place to another, and used both of persons arriving and of those returning
2) to appear, make one's appearance, come before the publicThis word is used AV — come 616, go 13, misc 13, vr come 1
It is used almost invariably in association with a person in the NT.
The verse says the Spirit of truth will…
“Guide”… hodēgeō, which means… 1) to be a guide, lead on one's way, to guide
2) to be a guide or a teacher
a) to give guidance toThis word is used AV — lead 3, guide 2
100 percent used in association with a person.
The verse says the Spirit of truth will…
“Speak”… laleo, which means…
1) to utter a voice or emit a sound
2) to speak
a) to use the tongue or the faculty of speech
b) to utter articulate sounds
3) to talk
4) to utter, tell
5) to use words in order to declare one's mind and disclose one's thoughts
a) to speakAV — speak 244, say 15, tell 12, talk 11, preach 6, utter 4, misc 3, vr speak 1
Almost invariably it involves a person with a tongue.
The verse says the Spirit of truth will…
“Hear”… akouō, which means…
1) to be endowed with the faculty of hearing, not deaf
2) to hear
b) to attend to, consider what is or has been said
c) to understand, perceive the sense of what is said
3) to hear something
a) to perceive by the ear what is announced in one's presence
b) to get by hearing learn
c) a thing comes to one's ears, to find out, learn
d) to give ear to a teaching or a teacher
e) to comprehend, to understandAV — hear 418, hearken 6, give audience 3, hearer 2, misc 8
Again, almost invariably associated with a person who has ears.
The verse says the Spirit of truth will…
“Shew” anaggello,
1) to announce, make known
2) to report, bring back tidings, rehearseAV — tell 6, show 6, declare 3, rehearse 1, speak 1, report 1
100% associated with a person who has a tongue.
While we are at it lets look at the 14th verse.
He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew [it] unto you.
The Spirit of truth will…
“Glorify” doxazo,
1) to think, suppose, be of opinion
2) to praise, extol, magnify, celebrate
3) to honour, do honour to, hold in honour
4) to make glorious, adorn with lustre, clothe with splendour
a) to impart glory to something, render it excellent
b) to make renowned, render illustrious
1) to cause the dignity and worth of some person or thing to become manifest and acknowledgedAV — glorify 54, honour 3, have glory 2, magnify 1, make glorious 1, full of glory 1
100% associated with a person.
The Spirit of truth will…
“Receive” lambano,1) to take
a) to take with the hand, lay hold of, any person or thing in order to use it
1) to take up a thing to be carried
2) to take upon one's self
b) to take in order to carry away
1) without the notion of violence, i,e to remove, take away
c) to take what is one's own, to take to one's self, to make one's own
1) to claim, procure, for one's self
a) to associate with one's self as companion, attendant
2) of that which when taken is not let go, to seize, to lay hold of, apprehend
3) to take by craft (our catch, used of hunters, fisherman, etc.), to circumvent one by fraud
4) to take to one's self, lay hold upon, take possession of, i.e. to appropriate to one's self
5) catch at, reach after, strive to obtain
6) to take a thing due, to collect, gather (tribute)
d) to take
1) to admit, receive
2) to receive what is offered
3) not to refuse or reject
4) to receive a person, give him access to one's self,
a) to regard any one's power, rank, external circumstances, and on that account to do some injustice or neglect something
e) to take, to choose, select
f) to take beginning, to prove anything, to make a trial of, to experience
2) to receive (what is given), to gain, get, obtain, to get backAV — receive 133, take 106, have 3, catch 3, not tr 1, misc 17
Almost invariably associated with a person.
This is only two verses spoken by Jesus and not to mention the Apostles describing the Holy Spirit with personal attributes using personal pronouns.
Should we ignore them?
Is the Holy Spirit a person? If not then what sort of creature is he?
You said…
Quote
This is not honesty with scripture. If you agree with determining original meanings of words then carry it through in all cases. Not just the ones that benifit your doctrine.It seems that you are not being honest, for good hermaneutical principles require looking at context and surrounding words as well as intended meaning, background, culture etc, but never assuming because a word is spoken it has to always have one meaning. There is no language like that.
W.J. Why do you ignore Ephesisans 4:4-6? Ignoring that is not going to be an excuse.
Peace and Love Mrs.
WJ,
I am not going to dig through all your diatribe and get caught up in the details that lead down dead ends. Intelectual sidetracking is not my game.None of what you say here proves that the Holy Spirit or breath has a personality that is additional to that of the Father. I never denied that the Holy Spirit was God. I deny it is anything other then the Father manifesting himself in the natural realm. What I deny is the use of the term “Holy Spirit” when used to add credibility to that false belief. “Hole Spirit” carries with it an idea of a separate animated personality added to the Father. It is no surprise that it is translated that way. With the influence of the Catholic Church and 1700 years of tradition it has been justified and propagated over and over again. Most scholars are afraid to even broach the subject for fear that they will be ostracized by their peers.
Scripture says we are to be filled with the Spirit. What is it that fills us but the very presence of the Father. Just like Jesus we are to have the Father in us to do His good pleasure. Jesus prayed that we would be one with the Father as He is. The filling of the Spirit is that oneness being brought about. (not in completion, but the start)
The scriptures you quote pertaining to the Spirit being called He, ect do not prove a separate person either. The He refers to the fact that this breath/wind/spirit is the Father, but not a separate person/personality.
It is true that pneuma has been translated as other things for example the Human spirit as in John 19/30 and
Luke 8/55 – And her spirit came again, and she arose straightway: and he commanded to give her meat.
I doubt you want to start substituting “human” spirit every place you see pneuma.There are many other Greek words that are translated holy and carry meanings as to identify it with God, but none are used in most places where Holy Spirit is translated.
Example Mat 1/18
Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.Most people read the terms Holy Ghost and equate it equally with the third person of the Trinity, however here the terms Holy Ghost comes from two words meaning most holy one and breath or wind. Hagios – most holy or holy one. Pneuma – breath or wind. So Mary was found with child of the most holy one’s breath. We accept this as being the Father because that is what Jesus himself says.
Tie this in with Acts 2/4 and an interesting picture arises.
And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.Same exact words used to describe what fills us. Not another person of the Godhead, but the Father Himself. This understanding was common understanding at the time and did not need repeated time and again. For example in that very verse God uses the term pneuma alone referring to that self same Father’s breath. For this reason the term pneuma in the vast majority of cases refers to the breath of the Father. In most cases there is no justification in the Greek for adding the term “Holy” to the translation of pneuma. It is simply poor translation. Translators come across pneuma and instead of properly translating it wind or breath they add an extra word/concept to it that does not exist in the Greek. This is done to add a false personalization, other then the Father, to the word pneuma that does not exist in the Greek.
If there is any personalization due the term “Holy Spirit” in the NT, it should come from the above examples in scripture. Identifying the Holy Spirit as the breath of the Father and not some separate personality added to the one true God the Father.
This is proper hermeneutics using scripture to define scripture. Not using doctrine to define it. Not using English translations or trinitarian scholars because they lend cresence to my preconcieved ideas of doctrine.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 29 2007,10:16) Quote (Mr. Steve @ Dec. 29 2007,10:03) Quote Again you have the same problem. I say the Spirit leads me to one truth and you say the Spirit ;eads you to another. Another impass We can only say that the Spirit has lead us to a truth that is confirmed in the word. The word of God is the final authority. Growing in the knowledge of God's word takes time. Certain truths are not intended to be understood by those who are babes in Christ.
mr steveTrue!
Hi WJ,
But what is to be understood is written.
The classic superior view that we know because we are very clever and have studied a lot does not wash here or with Christ.Quote (you decide @ Dec. 30 2007,07:42) Oh there is so much some people don't yet understand. God, Jesus, and the Holdy Ghost are all one in the same. Jesus wasn't fully man and fully God. Jesus was God in a man's body. He was fully God in a man's body. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily (colo. 2:9). For in him being Jesus, what dwelleth in him was the fulness of the Godhead.
Where did it dwelleth was a body. We called the body Jesus. Also known as Emmanuel which being interpreted is, what, God with us.
Did you see that. God with us, not someone else, it was God.
They are not separate.
Is. 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The might God, The everlastin Father, The Prince of Peace.
Ok so we all know the son is Jesus. So the son is either The mighty God, The everlasting Father.
Or there are now two God(s) and two Father(s). So which is it are they one in the same or are there two gods and two fathers.
So you preach oneness doctrine.Try this link:
https://heavennet.net/answers/answer09.htmHere is a discussion specifically about Oneness Doctrine:
https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….;t=1671BTW, you last comment about Father.
Add Abraham to the list too.
Jesus is not the Heavenly Father, but he is greater than Abraham.You could also add your dad to the list.
You see there are many fathers. But there is one Father of all.
Quote (IM4Truth @ Dec. 30 2007,20:12) martian Ignorance does get somebody nowhere. Peace and Love Mrs.
You will need to explain that comment. Should I be offended? LOLWJ and you martin ignore Ephesisans 4:4-6 which states there is one Spirit one Jesus one Baptizm, one Father of all WHO IS ABOVE ALL AND IN US ALL. ThaT MEANS THAT THEY ARE NOT CO-EQUAL. Not according to these scripture. Also Jesus said many times that the Father is greater then I. In my younger years i taught the trinity doctrine to our Children and I am sorry I did. It is so wrong.
Peace and Love Mrs.
Quote (IM4Truth @ Dec. 31 2007,02:29) WJ and you martin ignore Ephesisans 4:4-6 which states there is one Spirit one Jesus one Baptizm, one Father of all WHO IS ABOVE ALL AND IN US ALL. ThaT MEANS THAT THEY ARE NOT CO-EQUAL. Not according to these scripture. Also Jesus said many times that the Father is greater then I. In my younger years i taught the trinity doctrine to our Children and I am sorry I did. It is so wrong. Peace and Love Mrs.
I do not ignor Eoh 4. I am in complete agreement with it.
What part of that scripture do you thin I am ignoring?I do not believe in co-equal persons. Jesus was not equal with God. As a man he cannot be. Everything He has was given him by his Father.
I do not understand why you keep tying me in with WJ's beliefs. I do not believ in the Trinity in any way.
I believe in one God YHWH, the Father who has one only begotten human son Jesus. Jesus had the pesence of His Father in him and so do we. The Holy Spirit as it is called in the NT is the presence of the Father.Martain…. You are right the Father was in Jesus, just as He said, ” the son of man can do (NOTHING) of HIMSELF, the FATHER in me HE does the work. Jesus said GOD is SPIRIT and that SPIRIT who is GOD was (IN) Jesus, and all who Have His Spirit in them Have GOD in them.
“For He (GOD) works in Us both to WILL and DO His pleasure.Rom 4:24….> But For Us (ALSO) to whom it shall be imputed, if we Believe in HIM (GOD) that (RAISED) up Jesus our lord from the dead.
Rom 8:11….> But (IF) the Spirit of HIM (GOD) that RAISED up Jesus from the dead (DWELL) in you, HE (GOD) that raised up Christ from the dead shall (ALSO) quicken your Mortal bodies, by His (GOD”S) Spirit that (DWELLETH) in you.
and again “Let this MIND be in you, which was (ALSO) in Christ Jesus.
That mind that was in Jesus was God the Father and if we have this same mind in us it will produce the same friuts as it did in Jesus.
ONE GOD IN ALL AND THROUGH ALL< not two or three Gods in different essences or forms, as some are trying to have us believe. HEAR O ISRAEL THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD.Peace to you Martain hold onto what you have………gene
Quote (martian @ Dec. 31 2007,03:32) Quote (IM4Truth @ Dec. 31 2007,02:29) WJ and you martin ignore Ephesisans 4:4-6 which states there is one Spirit one Jesus one Baptizm, one Father of all WHO IS ABOVE ALL AND IN US ALL. ThaT MEANS THAT THEY ARE NOT CO-EQUAL. Not according to these scripture. Also Jesus said many times that the Father is greater then I. In my younger years i taught the trinity doctrine to our Children and I am sorry I did. It is so wrong. Peace and Love Mrs.
I do not ignor Eoh 4. I am in complete agreement with it.
What part of that scripture do you thin I am ignoring?I do not believe in co-equal persons. Jesus was not equal with God. As a man he cannot be. Everything He has was given him by his Father.
I do not understand why you keep tying me in with WJ's beliefs. I do not believ in the Trinity in any way.
I believe in one God YHWH, the Father who has one only begotten human son Jesus. Jesus had the pesence of His Father in him and so do we. The Holy Spirit as it is called in the NT is the presence of the Father.
MARTIAN I am sorry I must have confused you with somebody else that believes in the trinity. Good that we agree.Peace and Love Mrs.
To All……> Jesus said , many would come to Him and say (IN YOUR NAME) WE HAVE DONE ALL THESE GOOD WORKS, and what was the response (DEPART FROM ME YOU WORKERS OF INIQUITY), notice he did not deny the did those good works did he, and went on to say in others places I never know you. What was the (INIQUITY) and Iniquity is a sin that someones thinking He or She is doing is right, when infact its a sin. So what could be the Iniquity they were doing, was it the good works?, NO, it was in making Jesus the reason they were doing them, that was the iniquity they were doing.
Jesus, Moses, the Apostles, you or me, or anyone else who accredits anything God's Doing to a man (IS) a LIAR and a THEIF, Man has always tried to rob God of His Glory by applying God has done to a man. That why God Spoke through Jesus mouth and said all who ever came before me were liars and thevies. Jesus never robbed God by trying to still His Glory, Jesus was (ALL) about what God was doing and always gave God the credit for what He was doing. GO to any chruch today and see if the Father's name is even mentioned, No it's all about Jesus, while they worship Jesus they neglect to worship He who seek's worship, the Father, Is it any wonder so many prayers go unanswered. They have made Jesus the object of worship and have commited IDOLATRY, we are called to come alongside Jesus and worship and pray to who He worshiped and prayed to.
GOD THE FATHER IS SOVERIGN, He ONLY IS GOD. NO OTHER DIETY EXISTS or ever did. If we Give Him the glory and respect He deserves we will see our lives change and our burdens will lighten.
Peace to all the ISRAEL (overcommers) of GOD.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 31 2007,08:59) To All……> Jesus said , many would come to Him and say (IN YOUR NAME) WE HAVE DONE ALL THESE GOOD WORKS, and what was the response (DEPART FROM ME YOU WORKERS OF INIQUITY), notice he did not deny the did those good works did he, and went on to say in others places I never know you. What was the (INIQUITY) and Iniquity is a sin that someones thinking He or She is doing is right, when infact its a sin. So what could be the Iniquity they were doing, was it the good works?, NO, it was in making Jesus the reason they were doing them, that was the iniquity they were doing. Jesus, Moses, the Apostles, you or me, or anyone else who accredits anything God's Doing to a man (IS) a LIAR and a THEIF, Man has always tried to rob God of His Glory by applying God has done to a man. That why God Spoke through Jesus mouth and said all who ever came before me were liars and thevies. Jesus never robbed God by trying to still His Glory, Jesus was (ALL) about what God was doing and always gave God the credit for what He was doing. GO to any chruch today and see if the Father's name is even mentioned, No it's all about Jesus, while they worship Jesus they neglect to worship He who seek's worship, the Father, Is it any wonder so many prayers go unanswered. They have made Jesus the object of worship and have commited IDOLATRY, we are called to come alongside Jesus and worship and pray to who He worshiped and prayed to.
GOD THE FATHER IS SOVERIGN, He ONLY IS GOD. NO OTHER DIETY EXISTS or ever did. If we Give Him the glory and respect He deserves we will see our lives change and our burdens will lighten.
Peace to all the ISRAEL (overcommers) of GOD.
I agree with some resrvation. We cannot fail to honor our brother Jesus who made a way for us. He is the door. Without his willing sacrifice we would all be lost. Scripture says that when we honor him we also honor the Father.
There is one throne in heaven and sitting on that thrown is Jesus. When we look at him we will see our mutual Father shining through his face.Hail the lanb of God and glory be given to him as befitting his magnificent accomplishments.
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