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Quote (martian @ Dec. 29 2007,07:34) I will add one more thing. “Christianity stands and falls with the resurrection of Jesus from the dead through God. There is in the New Testament no a priori belief that does not start with the resurrection of Jesus…..Christian belief which is not “resurrection belief” is neither Christian, nor belief.”
Quote from Moltmann within his book, 'Theology of Hope'.
There is no other belief on which salvation is based. No other belief in which souls are at stake. Beliefe that Jesus was raised from the dead insures salvation, regardless of any other belief about him.
martianThis is all true as long as you believe in the right Jesus that raised himself from the dead, wouldnt you agree?
2 Cor 11:4
For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.Gal 1:6
I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.Tit 2:13
Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;As far as I can tell there is no scripture anywhere that says the Father will appear or that the Father is coming again to the earth.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 29 2007,08:30) Quote (martian @ Dec. 29 2007,07:34) I will add one more thing. “Christianity stands and falls with the resurrection of Jesus from the dead through God. There is in the New Testament no a priori belief that does not start with the resurrection of Jesus…..Christian belief which is not “resurrection belief” is neither Christian, nor belief.”
Quote from Moltmann within his book, 'Theology of Hope'.
There is no other belief on which salvation is based. No other belief in which souls are at stake. Beliefe that Jesus was raised from the dead insures salvation, regardless of any other belief about him.
martianThis is all true as long as you believe in the right Jesus that raised himself from the dead, wouldnt you agree?
2 Cor 11:4
For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.Gal 1:6
I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.Tit 2:13
Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;As far as I can tell there is no scripture anywhere that says the Father will appear or that the Father is coming again to the earth.
Again you use scriptue to prove your point and we have not established a proper process to interpret those scriptures so they cannot be used for anything but opinion not as proof.WJ
I can no longer accept any proof from scripture as you interpret it unless we come to an agreement on a proper way to interpret them. You interpret one way and I another without any rules to guide either one.Quote Mr Steve believes in two Gods Gene; I believe the Father is the God of Christ. I believe the Father has given all power in heaven and on earth to the Son of God, who is Jesus Christ. I believe that those who believe in Christ as the Son of God have the promise of salvation.
With respect to the Holy Ghost, it is Christ intent to baptize believers in the Holy Ghost. Jesus said we would receive power after the Holy Ghost comes upon us to be his witnesses. In Acts 5 Annanias and Saphira lied to the Holy Ghost. Peter said they didn't lie unto man, but to God. God's Spirit is also known as the Holy Ghost as well as a distinct person that speaks what he hears from the Father.
I believe there is an order in the Godhead wherein the Father is over all.
Hi Mr S,
Opinion is fine.
So long as you do not teach as truth
what is never taught in the sacred Word of God.Otherwise you make your opinion greater than the revelation of God and that is unwise.
Quote (martian @ Dec. 29 2007,08:58) WJ
I can no longer accept any proof from scripture as you interpret it unless we come to an agreement on a proper way to interpret them. You interpret one way and I another without any rules to guide either one.
martianWe have the Holy Spirit to teach us, and he does that through quickening the scriptures to us.
What special rules do we need to simply believe what is written?
Hi WJ,
Seems then you are not listening.
The Spirit reminds us of what is written.
It is written in no place in the bible that the Spirit is another person.Quote Hi Mr S,
Opinion is fine.
So long as you do not teach as truth
what is never taught in the sacred Word of God.Otherwise you make your opinion greater than the revelation of God and that is unwise.
What are you referring to in my post?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 29 2007,09:31) Hi WJ,
Seems then you are not listening.
The Spirit reminds us of what is written.
It is written in no place in the bible that the Spirit is another person.
So an “it” reminds you of what is written?Why play with words then?
Why mention the Holy Spirit?
Why not just say the Father does these things and not the “it” of God?
Quote (Mr. Steve @ Dec. 29 2007,09:35) Quote Hi Mr S,
Opinion is fine.
So long as you do not teach as truth
what is never taught in the sacred Word of God.Otherwise you make your opinion greater than the revelation of God and that is unwise.
What are you referring to in my post?
steveHe is referring to what he just said to me.
You said the Spirit takes from the Father, he dosnt believe those words though they are written.
Quote Hi WJ,
Seems then you are not listening.
The Spirit reminds us of what is written.
It is written in no place in the bible that the Spirit is another person.In John 14, 15, and 16, the Holy Spirit is referred to as a person 17 times; i.e, “he” “him” “himself”
Jesus said the Father would send the Holy Spirit in his name. Jesus did not say I will send the Father's Spirit or that the Father will come himself.
So who is not listening Nick?
Quote steve He is referring to what he just said to me.
You said the Spirit takes from the Father, he dosnt believe those words though they are written.
I see. Thank you Keith
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 29 2007,09:28) Quote (martian @ Dec. 29 2007,08:58) WJ
I can no longer accept any proof from scripture as you interpret it unless we come to an agreement on a proper way to interpret them. You interpret one way and I another without any rules to guide either one.
martianWe have the Holy Spirit to teach us, and he does that through quickening the scriptures to us.
What special rules do we need to simply believe what is written?
Again you have the same problem. I say the Spirit leads me to one truth and you say the Spirit ;eads you to another. Another impassQuote Again you have the same problem. I say the Spirit leads me to one truth and you say the Spirit ;eads you to another. Another impass We can only say that the Spirit has lead us to a truth that is confirmed in the word. The word of God is the final authority. Growing in the knowledge of God's word takes time. Certain truths are not intended to be understood by those who are babes in Christ.
Quote (martian @ Dec. 29 2007,09:56) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 29 2007,09:28) Quote (martian @ Dec. 29 2007,08:58) WJ
I can no longer accept any proof from scripture as you interpret it unless we come to an agreement on a proper way to interpret them. You interpret one way and I another without any rules to guide either one.
martianWe have the Holy Spirit to teach us, and he does that through quickening the scriptures to us.
What special rules do we need to simply believe what is written?
Again you have the same problem. I say the Spirit leads me to one truth and you say the Spirit ;eads you to another. Another impass
martianNo it seems you have the problem not me.
I have the Holy Spirit to guide and lead me into all truth. The scriptures are written for instruction in righteousness that the man of God might become complete and mature and grow up into him who is the head.
That is funtional.
I believe what the scriptures say without having to have a special formula for interpreting them.
Quote (martian @ Dec. 29 2007,09:58) WJ,
I notice you prefer to use the name Yeshua rather then Jesus. Why is that?
Because the name Yeshua or Yahshua is closer to the original text.I am not hung up on it for I use both.
Quote (Mr. Steve @ Dec. 29 2007,10:03) Quote Again you have the same problem. I say the Spirit leads me to one truth and you say the Spirit ;eads you to another. Another impass We can only say that the Spirit has lead us to a truth that is confirmed in the word. The word of God is the final authority. Growing in the knowledge of God's word takes time. Certain truths are not intended to be understood by those who are babes in Christ.
mr steveTrue!
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 29 2007,10:15) Quote (martian @ Dec. 29 2007,09:58) WJ,
I notice you prefer to use the name Yeshua rather then Jesus. Why is that?
Because the name Yeshua or Yahshua is closer to the original text.I am not hung up on it for I use both.
But the English translation is Jesus. Why do you follow a translation that is closer to the original text and yet do not follow that principle with “Holy Spirit” A translation closer to the original text would be Breath set asside for a special purposr or simply special breath.Could it be that if you were to translate it properly it would take away from your preconcieved idea that the Holy Spirit is a person?
You see my point. You are willing to follow the proper hermaneutical principle in the case of the name Jesus because it supports your doctrine but abandon them when it goes against your doctrine. A perfect example of your doctrine interpreting scripture rather then scripture interpreting doctrine. This is not honesty with scripture. If you agree with determining original meanings of words then carry it through in all cases. Not just the ones that benifit your doctrine.
Quote (Mr. Steve @ Dec. 29 2007,10:03) Quote Again you have the same problem. I say the Spirit leads me to one truth and you say the Spirit ;eads you to another. Another impass We can only say that the Spirit has lead us to a truth that is confirmed in the word. The word of God is the final authority. Growing in the knowledge of God's word takes time. Certain truths are not intended to be understood by those who are babes in Christ.
So you assume that those that do not agree with yur take on doctrine are “babes in Christ:? Pretty arrogant isn't it?
You have no idea what my history is or my depth of rlationship with God or my training in the word.All you cab say is we ae right and if you do not agree there must be some problem with you.
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