The Trinity Doctrine

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (martian @ Dec. 29 2007,03:55)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 29 2007,03:47) Quote (TimothyVI @ Dec. 27 2007,22:03) Quote (Is 1:18 @ Dec. 27 2007,17:55) Quote (martian @ Dec. 26 2007,03:00) BTW There was never a problem answering your post. Your points are simplistic, non scriptural and silly to anyone with common sense, but thanks for playing the game. You are a somewhat entertaining. What else good your stand is I do not know. He he…say what you like about WJ, but as far as I know he has not created a new Heaven.Net identity and used the second identity (AKA yourself) to pay homage to the first (AKA yourself)!! But you have Martian, you have…. Hi Is 1:18, Martian admitted to that change of identity some time ago. I fail to see how that has any bearing on the validity of present or future posts by him. I would hate to think that no one would listen to anything that I had to say because of mistakes that I have made in the past. Good Lord, I can't even remember them all. Tim Tim I think the point that Isa 1:18 is making is that martian was less than honest about his identity and did this because he was at that time implying people were “monkeys” who did not agree with his “Functional” doctrine. He had become very aggressive in personal attacks against everyone who didnt agree with him. So now he attacks my person or character with words like silly, ignorant, stupid etc. His and t8s constant patronizing rather than sincere dialogue is lacking in fruit IMO. I did not attack your person. I did attack your posts. There is a big diffeence. If your security is in your posts then you have a much bigger problem then the trinity. I said your posts were silly not you. Many people say silly things. This does not mean they are silly.

martian

Get real!

If I say my mother is a beautifull person and you say thats silly!

Thats not a personal attack on me?

You make fun of my theology by using words like silly and stupid and ignorant, and I take that personally!

[martian]

Let me make one thing clear. I believe that WJ is saved. No doctrine of the Trinity or oneness can determine that. I do not intentionally make personal attacks on him. I do believe he has a wrong doctrine but that does not effect his salvation. I attempt to keep my points directed at his posts and not him personally.
If I find any fault in WJ is that I do not believe he can see beyond his preconcieved idea of doctrine. That is a fault all of us share from time to time. Again this does not effect his doctrine. I expect that some day He and I will embrace in friendship and brotherly love on the other side. there will be no gloating over who was right only rejoicing in the blood of the lamb.

[martian]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 29 2007,04:21)

Quote (martian @ Dec. 29 2007,03:55) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 29 2007,03:47) Quote (TimothyVI @ Dec. 27 2007,22:03) Quote (Is 1:18 @ Dec. 27 2007,17:55) Quote (martian @ Dec. 26 2007,03:00) BTW There was never a problem answering your post. Your points are simplistic, non scriptural and silly to anyone with common sense, but thanks for playing the game. You are a somewhat entertaining. What else good your stand is I do not know. He he…say what you like about WJ, but as far as I know he has not created a new Heaven.Net identity and used the second identity (AKA yourself) to pay homage to the first (AKA yourself)!! But you have Martian, you have…. Hi Is 1:18, Martian admitted to that change of identity some time ago. I fail to see how that has any bearing on the validity of present or future posts by him. I would hate to think that no one would listen to anything that I had to say because of mistakes that I have made in the past. Good Lord, I can't even remember them all. Tim Tim I think the point that Isa 1:18 is making is that martian was less than honest about his identity and did this because he was at that time implying people were “monkeys” who did not agree with his “Functional” doctrine. He had become very aggressive in personal attacks against everyone who didnt agree with him. So now he attacks my person or character with words like silly, ignorant, stupid etc. His and t8s constant patronizing rather than sincere dialogue is lacking in fruit IMO. I did not attack your person. I did attack your posts. There is a big diffeence. If your security is in your posts then you have a much bigger problem then the trinity. I said your posts were silly not you. Many people say silly things. This does not mean they are silly. martian Get real! If I say my mother is a beautifull person and you say thats silly! Thats not  a personal attack on me? You make fun of my theology by using words like silly and stupid and ignorant, and I take that personally!

Get real? OK – Here is a good rality check!

Your answer indicates that your self worth is tied up in your doctrine. Your self worth should only be in Jesus and not a doctrine about Jesus.

If you have an negative emotional reaction when someone disputes your doctrine or even ridicules it that should have no personal impact on you. Your worth as a person is based on the fact that Jesus loves you and not what anyone else says about your beliefs or even you personally.

Idolatry is the placing of self worth in anything other then Jesus Christ. That includes jobs, money, lools girlfriends, kids, doctrines, ministries or education.

If a person's feelings go up and down (anger, hurt ect) based on what others say then they have their self worth tied up in their reputation before man.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (martian @ Dec. 29 2007,04:23)

Let me make one thing clear. I believe that WJ is saved. No doctrine of the Trinity or oneness can determine that. I do not intentionally make personal attacks on him. I do believe he has a wrong doctrine but that does not effect his salvation. I attempt to keep my points directed at his posts and not him personally. If I find any fault in WJ is that I do not believe he can see beyond his preconcieved idea of doctrine. That is a fault all of us share from time to time. Again this does not effect his doctrine. I expect that some day He and I will embrace in friendship and brotherly love on the other side. there will be no gloating over who was right only rejoicing in the blood of the lamb.

martian

I embrace brotherly love on this side, but that brotherly love is not found in using words like silly, ignorant and stupid toward my brother and his personal beliefs.

[martian]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 29 2007,04:42)

Quote (martian @ Dec. 29 2007,04:23) Let me make one thing clear. I believe that WJ is saved. No doctrine of the Trinity or oneness can determine that. I do not intentionally make personal attacks on him. I do believe he has a wrong doctrine but that does not effect his salvation. I attempt to keep my points directed at his posts and not him personally. If I find any fault in WJ is that I do not believe he can see beyond his preconcieved idea of doctrine. That is a fault all of us share from time to time. Again this does not effect his doctrine. I expect that some day He and I will embrace in friendship and brotherly love on the other side. there will be no gloating over who was right only rejoicing in the blood of the lamb. martian I embrace brotherly love on this side, but that brotherly love is not found in using words like silly, ignorant and stupid toward my brother and his personal beliefs.

Again not against my brother, but saying your bliefs are silly is not reflection on you personally.
We none of us have all of our doctrines exactly right.

[GeneBalthrop]

Martain……> i have just read your response to WJ, Jesus is His God, It reminded me of the women who ran up to Jesus and said (Good Master) and the response was, why do you call me good, there's (ONLY ONE WHO IS GOOD),and that is GOD> why didn't He include Himself in that statement. Why didn't Jesus say, yes your right I am GOOD, I AM GOD. Instead Jesus said He could do NOTHING OF HIMSELF, doesn't sound like a DEITY to me . But try telling WJ that, He just does not get it even when He has to denie so many plain scriptures showing Him that He is wrong. Its interesting WJ believes in three as God, Mr Steve believes in two Gods, But Jesus said “HEAR O ISRAEL, THE LORD OUR GOD IS (ONE) LORD”, and again “THOU ART THE (ONLY) TRUE GOD”, but they have to make more then (ONE) even when Jesus PLAINLY showed us there is ONLY ONE GOD, this is nothing more then pure IDOLATRY and they don't realize it.

Martian, hang on to what you have, peace to to and yours….gene

Hang on to what you Have Martian…….Peace to you and yours gene.

[martian]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 29 2007,04:42)

Quote (martian @ Dec. 29 2007,04:23) Let me make one thing clear. I believe that WJ is saved. No doctrine of the Trinity or oneness can determine that. I do not intentionally make personal attacks on him. I do believe he has a wrong doctrine but that does not effect his salvation. I attempt to keep my points directed at his posts and not him personally. If I find any fault in WJ is that I do not believe he can see beyond his preconcieved idea of doctrine. That is a fault all of us share from time to time. Again this does not effect his doctrine. I expect that some day He and I will embrace in friendship and brotherly love on the other side. there will be no gloating over who was right only rejoicing in the blood of the lamb. martian I embrace brotherly love on this side, but that brotherly love is not found in using words like silly, ignorant and stupid toward my brother and his personal beliefs.

I only mentioned we will embrace on the other side because it is very very unlikely that we will meet in person on this side.

Did I use the term stupid? I do not remember that. Could you give me the context whre I used that term?

[martian]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 29 2007,05:10)

Martain……> i have just read your response to WJ, Jesus is His God, It reminded me of the women who ran up to Jesus and said (Good Master) and the response was, why do you call me good, there's (ONLY ONE WHO IS GOOD),and that is GOD> why didn't He include Himself in that statement. Why didn't Jesus say, yes your right I am GOOD, I AM GOD. Instead Jesus said He could do NOTHING OF HIMSELF, doesn't sound like a DEITY to me . But try telling WJ that, He just does not get it even when He has to denie so many plain scriptures showing Him that He is wrong. Its interesting WJ believes in three as God, Mr Steve believes in two Gods, But Jesus said “HEAR O ISRAEL, THE LORD OUR GOD IS (ONE) LORD”, and again “THOU ART THE (ONLY) TRUE GOD”, but they have to make more then (ONE) even when Jesus PLAINLY showed us there is ONLY ONE GOD, this is nothing more then pure IDOLATRY and they don't realize it. Martian, hang on to what you have, peace to to and yours….gene Hang on to what you Have Martian…….Peace to you and yours gene.

We all have idolatry to one extant or another. We choose to not use that rm because it carries such a mantle of evil. Simply put – anytime we put our self worth in something other then Jesus, we are practising idolatry.
In much the ame way there are those that do not like my attitude about this board as a game. I am not compelled to change peoples minds on this board. I know that peoples securities are tied up in their doctines and do not expect them to chage because of someting I post on a web page.
Jesus could endure insult and redicule while being crucified by the very people he came to save. His security was not in their opinion of him or what he taught/believed. He looked into the eyes of his Father and knew he was loved and looked after.
So whay do I continue to post here?
I find the process of debate entertaining. I am hoping to sooner or later find an argument for the Trinity that I have not already dealt with 100 times.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (martian @ Dec. 29 2007,04:34)

[/quote] Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 29 2007,04:21) Quote (martian @ Dec. 29 2007,03:55) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 29 2007,03:47) Quote (TimothyVI @ Dec. 27 2007,22:03) Quote (Is 1:18 @ Dec. 27 2007,17:55) [quote=martian,Dec. 26 2007,03:00]BTW There was never a problem answering your post. Your points are simplistic, non scriptural and silly to anyone with common sense, but thanks for playing the game. You are a somewhat entertaining. What else good your stand is I do not know. He he…say what you like about WJ, but as far as I know he has not created a new Heaven.Net identity and used the second identity (AKA yourself) to pay homage to the first (AKA yourself)!! But you have Martian, you have…. Hi Is 1:18, Martian admitted to that change of identity some time ago. I fail to see how that has any bearing on the validity of present or future posts by him. I would hate to think that no one would listen to anything that I had to say because of mistakes that I have made in the past. Good Lord, I can't even remember them all. Tim Tim I think the point that Isa 1:18 is making is that martian was less than honest about his identity and did this because he was at that time implying people were “monkeys” who did not agree with his “Functional” doctrine. He had become very aggressive in personal attacks against everyone who didnt agree with him. So now he attacks my person or character with words like silly, ignorant, stupid etc. His and t8s constant patronizing rather than sincere dialogue is lacking in fruit IMO. I did not attack your person. I did attack your posts. There is a big diffeence. If your security is in your posts then you have a much bigger problem then the trinity. I said your posts were silly not you. Many people say silly things. This does not mean they are silly. martian Get real! If I say my mother is a beautifull person and you say thats silly! Thats not  a personal attack on me? You make fun of my theology by using words like silly and stupid and ignorant, and I take that personally!

Quote

Get real?  OK – Here is a good rality check! Your answer indicates that your self worth is tied up in your doctrine. Your self worth should only be in Jesus and not a doctrine about Jesus.

And what do you know about my heart or Love for God?

That is the point. It is not just “My doctrine”. It is who I believe Yeshua is. It is what and who Yeshua is to me.

Maybe to you it is just about doctrine.

Quote

If you have an negative emotional reaction when someone disputes your doctrine or even ridicules it that should have no personal impact on you

.

Again, it is about who and what I believe Yeshua is. It is how I relate to him and what he means to me personally.

The nature of God is not a doctrine, though men would make it that.

God dosnt need my defence, however my heart is to the defence of the Gospel when I see corruption and what I believe to be another Jesus being taught.

That is personal.

Quote

Your worth as a person is based on the fact that Jesus loves you and not what anyone else says about your beliefs or even you personally.

Is it Jesus loves me or God loves me, or the Love of God shed abroad in my heart by the HolySpirit?

Without realizing it you just invoked the three in your words, unless you can show me the difference in the Love of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

Do you have this kind of Love or is it given to you by the three?

My point is if you call yourself a Christian, then you should not be calling people silly, stupid, ignorant, which is what you do when you say these things concerning someones belief in God.

Quote

Idolatry is the placing of self worth in anything other then Jesus Christ. That includes jobs, money, lools girlfriends, kids, doctrines, ministries or education.

Idolatry is the worship of false gods. I am not the one here claiming that I am a god.

Quote

If a person's feelings go up and down (anger, hurt ect) based on what others say then they have their self worth tied up in their reputation before man.

So are you saying that your relationship with God is not personal?

Would you accuse Yeshua for having passion and emotion about his relationship with his Father?

Did he not drive the money changers out? Did he not call the “Unbelievers” hypoocrites”, “Vipers” or “Children of the devil”!

Yet, we read…

Lk 9:49
And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.
50 And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.

So personal attacks by using words like “Stupid”, “Silly” and “Ignorant” in my opinion should not be used in dialogue among Christians or those who claim Yeshua as their Saviour.

Such words being used to attack someon
es Theology shows no respect for the other person, which should not be among believers.

I think it is weak and at best is a distraction from the subject being discussed.

Really such attacks to me is proving exactly what you say…

“they have their self worth tied up in their reputation before man.”

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (martian @ Dec. 29 2007,05:24)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 29 2007,04:42) Quote (martian @ Dec. 29 2007,04:23) Let me make one thing clear. I believe that WJ is saved. No doctrine of the Trinity or oneness can determine that. I do not intentionally make personal attacks on him. I do believe he has a wrong doctrine but that does not effect his salvation. I attempt to keep my points directed at his posts and not him personally. If I find any fault in WJ is that I do not believe he can see beyond his preconcieved idea of doctrine. That is a fault all of us share from time to time. Again this does not effect his doctrine. I expect that some day He and I will embrace in friendship and brotherly love on the other side. there will be no gloating over who was right only rejoicing in the blood of the lamb. martian I embrace brotherly love on this side, but that brotherly love is not found in using words like silly, ignorant and stupid toward my brother and his personal beliefs. I only mentioned we will embrace on the other side because it is very very unlikely that we will meet in person on this side. Did I use the term stupid? I do not remember that. Could you give me the context whre I used that term?

martian

But we have met, here, personally.

You act as if words being said here do not have meaning or substance or can influence someone to good or bad.

Do you think the words being said here are free from Gods judgment because they are sent out in cyber space?

[martian]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 29 2007,05:55)

Quote (martian @ Dec. 29 2007,05:24) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 29 2007,04:42) Quote (martian @ Dec. 29 2007,04:23) Let me make one thing clear. I believe that WJ is saved. No doctrine of the Trinity or oneness can determine that. I do not intentionally make personal attacks on him. I do believe he has a wrong doctrine but that does not effect his salvation. I attempt to keep my points directed at his posts and not him personally. If I find any fault in WJ is that I do not believe he can see beyond his preconcieved idea of doctrine. That is a fault all of us share from time to time. Again this does not effect his doctrine. I expect that some day He and I will embrace in friendship and brotherly love on the other side. there will be no gloating over who was right only rejoicing in the blood of the lamb. martian I embrace brotherly love on this side, but that brotherly love is not found in using words like silly, ignorant and stupid toward my brother and his personal beliefs. I only mentioned we will embrace on the other side because it is very very unlikely that we will meet in person on this side. Did I use the term stupid? I do not remember that. Could you give me the context whre I used that term? martian But we have met, here, personally. You act as if words being said here do not have meaning or substance or can influence someone to good or bad. Do you think the words being said here are free from Gods judgment because they are sent out in cyber space?

I do not believe that this is an effective ministry. I do not believe that this venue has much impact on peoples souls. I do not consider our meeting on a web page meeting personal. I pray you have deeper relationships then web pages.

I knew that you would deny the idolatry of which I spoke. If you could see it I know that you would probably get out of it.
You speak of the gospel, yet I dear you add things to the gospel that Paul does not. 1 cor 15 Paul says that if you believe that Jesus died for your sins and rose from the dead you are saved. Nothing is said about him being a God . Don;t you think that Paul would mention that if that was requirement to be saved?

[Worshipping Jesus]

martian

You said…

Quote

Did I use the term stupid? I do not remember that. Could you give me the context whre I used that term?

Here is the context emphasis mine…

Quote

I am dumbfounded at your willing ignorance and inability to accept plain scripture and common sense. I finally figured it out. WJ has been hired by the website to keep the argumant going.Must be a lot of money involved to make someone agree to look so silly and dumb.

Dumb
6 a: lacking intelligence : STUPID b: showing a lack of intelligence c: requiring no intelligence 7: not having the capability to process data — compare INTELLIGENT 3a
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/dumb

Really it is no big deal to me. However, I wont let you blow it off as if you didnt mean it that way or its not a big deal.

Surly it wont effect my faith or my personal theology. But like

I said, these words should not be used toward a believer in Yeshua for any reason IMO.

I think it is weak. And definatly is not a testimony to the world that may be watching or listening.

[martian]

BTW –
WJ –
Do you think the words being said here are free from Gods judgment because they are sent out in cyber space?

Response –
I do not feel any judgement from God over a web site because I know and God knows my heart in my posts. You may judge my motives if you like but that is of no importance to me.
In addition, since I know that my beliefs are correct about the nature of Jesus I expect no judgement on that account. Regardless of how much you judge them.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (martian @ Dec. 29 2007,06:19)

BTW – WJ – Do you think the words being said here are free from Gods judgment because they are sent out in cyber space? Response – I do not feel any judgement from God over a web site because I know and God knows my heart in my posts. You may judge my motives if you like but that is of no importance to me. In addition, since I know that my beliefs are correct about the nature of Jesus I expect no judgement on that account. Regardless of how much you judge them.

martian

Where have I judged you?

My words were for everyone who speaks here.

Let me repeat it…

Do you think the words being said here are free from Gods judgment because they are sent out in cyber space?

This goes for me and everyone on this sight. Words are important. If the written words here are not important then how can we claim scripture as having any importance over our lives?

[martian]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 29 2007,06:13)

martian You said… Quote Did I use the term stupid? I do not remember that. Could you give me the context whre I used that term? Here is the context emphasis mine… Quote I am dumbfounded at your willing ignorance and inability to accept plain scripture and common sense. I finally figured it out. WJ has been hired by the website to keep the argumant going.Must be a lot of money involved to make someone agree to look so silly and dumb. Dumb 6 a: lacking intelligence : STUPID b: showing a lack of intelligence c: requiring no intelligence 7: not having the capability to process data — compare INTELLIGENT 3a http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/dumb Really it is no big deal to me. However, I wont let you blow it off as if you didnt mean it that way or its not a big deal. Surly it wont effect my faith or my personal theology. But like I said, these words should not be used toward a believer in Yeshua for any reason IMO. I think it is weak. And definatly is not a testimony to the world that may be watching or listening.

OK I sagree that the use of the term “dumb” might have been a poor choice however it was used in a joking or unreal context. I did not intend for it to be taken as a real insult.
The use of the term ignorance is not related to stupid. Ignorance is the lack of education on a subject either by lack of oportunity or lack of willingness to learn differently.

You seem very concerned about what the world thnks. I am not. I know my heart in the matter. I know that there was never a personal anamousity as a motive against you. I also trust that God will ensure that those that have eyes to see will see that in my posts. Those who won;t see have to deal with God on that matter.

As to your opinion on the matter? Not relavent to me.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (martian @ Dec. 29 2007,06:29)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 29 2007,06:13) martian You said… Quote Did I use the term stupid? I do not remember that. Could you give me the context whre I used that term? Here is the context emphasis mine… Quote I am dumbfounded at your willing ignorance and inability to accept plain scripture and common sense. I finally figured it out. WJ has been hired by the website to keep the argumant going.Must be a lot of money involved to make someone agree to look so silly and dumb. Dumb 6 a: lacking intelligence : STUPID b: showing a lack of intelligence c: requiring no intelligence 7: not having the capability to process data — compare INTELLIGENT 3a http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/dumb Really it is no big deal to me. However, I wont let you blow it off as if you didnt mean it that way or its not a big deal. Surly it wont effect my faith or my personal theology. But like I said, these words should not be used toward a believer in Yeshua for any reason IMO. I think it is weak. And definatly is not a testimony to the world that may be watching or listening. OK I sagree that the use of the term “dumb” might have been a poor choice however it was used in a joking or unreal context. I did not intend for it to be taken as a real insult. The use of the term ignorance is not related to stupid. Ignorance is the lack of education on a subject either by lack of oportunity or lack of willingness to learn differently. You seem very concerned about what the world thnks. I am not. I know my heart in the matter. I know that there was never a personal anamousity as a motive against you. I also trust that God will ensure that those that have eyes to see will see that in my posts. Those who won;t see have to deal with God on that matter. As to your opinion on the matter? Not relavent to me.

martian

Quote

As to your opinion on the matter? Not relavent to me.

Really, then why do you keep defending your position?

Yes I suppose I am concerned as to what the world thinks about our God. Its souls at stake here.

[martian]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 29 2007,06:27)

Quote (martian @ Dec. 29 2007,06:19) BTW – WJ – Do you think the words being said here are free from Gods judgment because they are sent out in cyber space? Response – I do not feel any judgement from God over a web site because I know and God knows my heart in my posts. You may judge my motives if you like but that is of no importance to me. In addition, since I know that my beliefs are correct about the nature of Jesus I expect no judgement on that account. Regardless of how much you judge them. martian Where have I judged you? My words were for everyone who speaks here. Let me repeat it… Do you think the words being said here are free from Gods judgment because they are sent out in cyber space? This goes for me and everyone on this sight. Words are important. If the written words here are not important then how can we claim scripture as having any importance over our lives?

I never said you judged me.  Where did I sy that. I said you judge my beliefs.  BIG DIFFEENCE THAT YOU SEEM TO NOT GET.

I know that God judges what is said here. My point is that God judges me by my heart and not by your opinion. It does not matter if you think what I said was a personal attack on you or not. What matters is what God thinks. That is between me and God and has nothing to do with you. If God chooses to convict me He certainly knows how. So far I feel nothing on that account concerning my posts to you. (regardless of your opinions)

Believe me the words that are said here are not scripture. Even the scriptural quotes we say are being interpreted right or wrong. The whole point of this type of venue is to discuss the scriptural proofs of particular doctrines. Since no one agrees on a sysyem for interpretation it will always be simple opinions. That is why little is accomplished in this process.

Do you agree that a person can have a good heart toward God and still have very messed up ideas in their heads?
If so, and God judges by the heart and not or head, then he does not judge by the doctrines.

You comment that you do not believe the nature of Jesus is a doctrine baffles me. There are two camps on here that supposedly get their doctrine/teaching from the scriptures. Both camps have differeng views on the nature of Jesus. What is that is not a dispute over teaching/doctrine?
Months ago I tried to get you to agree on a system of hermaneutics by which we could discuss the scriptures in question. You were all for it till it began to refute your doctrine then you abandoned them. Again without an honest and agreed upon system to interpret the scriptures it is all speculation and opinion.
You can even say the Holy Spirit leads you into all truth and therefore you are right. I can say the same thing.
There is no other way to objectively prove that nature other then functionality which you will not accept. So we are back to personal opinions on scriptures. If you knew me well and in person you might get some indication of fruits of my doctrine, but this venue does not allow that much personal interaction.

So really this board is just a place to post your opinions on doctrine. No one agrees on how to prove who is right so it is an impass at best.

[martian]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 29 2007,06:36)

Quote (martian @ Dec. 29 2007,06:29) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 29 2007,06:13) martian You said… Quote Did I use the term stupid? I do not remember that. Could you give me the context whre I used that term? Here is the context emphasis mine… Quote I am dumbfounded at your willing ignorance and inability to accept plain scripture and common sense. I finally figured it out. WJ has been hired by the website to keep the argumant going.Must be a lot of money involved to make someone agree to look so silly and dumb. Dumb 6 a: lacking intelligence : STUPID b: showing a lack of intelligence c: requiring no intelligence 7: not having the capability to process data — compare INTELLIGENT 3a http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/dumb Really it is no big deal to me. However, I wont let you blow it off as if you didnt mean it that way or its not a big deal. Surly it wont effect my faith or my personal theology. But like I said, these words should not be used toward a believer in Yeshua for any reason IMO. I think it is weak. And definatly is not a testimony to the world that may be watching or listening. OK I sagree that the use of the term “dumb” might have been a poor choice however it was used in a joking or unreal context. I did not intend for it to be taken as a real insult. The use of the term ignorance is not related to stupid. Ignorance is the lack of education on a subject either by lack of oportunity or lack of willingness to learn differently. You seem very concerned about what the world thnks. I am not. I know my heart in the matter. I know that there was never a personal anamousity as a motive against you. I also trust that God will ensure that those that have eyes to see will see that in my posts. Those who won;t see have to deal with God on that matter. As to your opinion on the matter? Not relavent to me. martian Quote As to your opinion on the matter? Not relavent to me. Really, then why do you keep defending your position? Yes I suppose I am concerned as to what the world thinks about our God. Its souls at stake here.

I am not dfending a position. I am being polite to you and answering your posts.

As to souls being at stake? Do you believe that a persons salvation is based on whether they agree with you on the nature of Jesus? Funny thing is, that Paul n 1 Cor 15 is very specific on what is required for salvation and mentions nothing about the nature of Jesus.

[martian]

I need to go for a while. I will continue at another time

[martian]

I will add one more thing.

“Christianity stands and falls with the resurrection of Jesus from the dead through God. There is in the New Testament no a priori belief that does not start with the resurrection of Jesus…..Christian belief which is not “resurrection belief” is neither Christian, nor belief.”

Quote from Moltmann within his book, 'Theology of Hope'.

There is no other belief on which salvation is based. No other belief in which souls are at stake. Beliefe that Jesus was raised from the dead insures salvation, regardless of any other belief about him.

[Author]

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