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Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 25 2007,17:52) Quote (martian @ Dec. 25 2007,16:03) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 25 2007,04:16) Quote (martian @ Dec. 24 2007,03:06) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 23 2007,18:56) martian So you think this is a game?
There are many listening and watching. Souls are at stake here.
Words are powerful.
Just because no one can see us or hear us verbally dosnt mean that the words we say can not have influence on souls.
This is not a game.
Matt 12:33
Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by [his] fruit.
34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.Words are important my friend!
Talk about a contradiction. Your post scripture that prove my point.Matt 12:33
Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by [his] fruit.
34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.Talk about a scripture proving what I have said about a working doctrine.
What fruit is there from the doctrine of the Trinity. Fruit that actually changes the heart and not the mind.
Since the doctrine does nothing to change the heart, the Trinity does not build any good treasure in the heart.
Now who will stand in judgment for sidetracking people’s minds in doctrines that do nothing and produce no good fruit.It is real obvious why you choose to put down the concept of functionality. It is because the doctrine you preach has no realistic function. No fruit in the heart and no purpose toward making us like Christ. A WASTE OF TIME! A GAME —
MartianTell me, is there there any subject more important than understanding who God is?
How can you know him apart from knowing Yeshua?
If all you know about Yeshua is he is a mere man, then you cannot know God.
And since you cant know anything about God apart from Yeshua then Yeshua has to be more than a mere man.
Simple!
You have not explained how a mere man can be Omnipotent, Omnipresent, and Omniscient.
How do you follow him in those things?
Can you be like him in every way? Can you have or ever have those attributes of God?
Will you be able to share in the creation of the New Heavens and the New earth?
Can you follow him in that?
Did you share in the creation of all things?
Can you follow him in that?
Can you baptise men in the Holy Spirit?
Can you save anyone?
Can you give your blood for all of humanitys sins?
Can you forgive sins?
Can you raise yourself from the dead?
Can you be the bread of life for all men?
Is the Holy Spirit subservient to you?
Can you dwell in millions of believers and recieve their prayers and bear their burdens and be with them all at the same time?
Can you follow him in these things?
Does all things consist by you?
Can you uphold all things by the word of your power?
Can you be the light that lights every man?
Can you follow him in these things?
My Jesus is bigger than yours martian.
For apparantly your Jesus is just another man that was anointed by God!
Wow I have been on a dozen or more boards. I have debated Wiccans, witches, Moonies and atheists and yet I have never seen such a bogus pile of nonsense in my life. Every scriture you try to use is filtered through a preconcieved idea of the Trinity. You deny that Jesus as a man with a mantle from God and given all authority in heaven and Earth could do the things you state. I am dumbfounded at your willing ignorance and inability to accept plain scripture and common sense.I will reply to only one of your comments. Your perception of Jesus is bigger then mine. So big in fact that your belief in him being God denies us the posibility to be like Him. So much for the plan of God. So much for christianity.
MartianOf course you have no answers for my questions!
For that would bring you to the conclusion that Yeshua is not just a mere man!
Well you ar full of assumptions.
Actually I had taken lots of time to reply but my comp crashed and I lost it. Being my family was having christmas that night I did not see you as all that important to rewrite. You know we are allowed to quit or take time out of the game as we wish.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 25 2007,17:52) Quote (martian @ Dec. 25 2007,16:03) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 25 2007,04:16) Quote (martian @ Dec. 24 2007,03:06) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 23 2007,18:56) martian So you think this is a game?
There are many listening and watching. Souls are at stake here.
Words are powerful.
Just because no one can see us or hear us verbally dosnt mean that the words we say can not have influence on souls.
This is not a game.
Matt 12:33
Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by [his] fruit.
34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.Words are important my friend!
Talk about a contradiction. Your post scripture that prove my point.Matt 12:33
Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by [his] fruit.
34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.Talk about a scripture proving what I have said about a working doctrine.
What fruit is there from the doctrine of the Trinity. Fruit that actually changes the heart and not the mind.
Since the doctrine does nothing to change the heart, the Trinity does not build any good treasure in the heart.
Now who will stand in judgment for sidetracking people’s minds in doctrines that do nothing and produce no good fruit.It is real obvious why you choose to put down the concept of functionality. It is because the doctrine you preach has no realistic function. No fruit in the heart and no purpose toward making us like Christ. A WASTE OF TIME! A GAME —
MartianTell me, is there there any subject more important than understanding who God is?
How can you know him apart from knowing Yeshua?
If all you know about Yeshua is he is a mere man, then you cannot know God.
And since you cant know anything about God apart from Yeshua then Yeshua has to be more than a mere man.
Simple!
You have not explained how a mere man can be Omnipotent, Omnipresent, and Omniscient.
How do you follow him in those things?
Can you be like him in every way? Can you have or ever have those attributes of God?
Will you be able to share in the creation of the New Heavens and the New earth?
Can you follow him in that?
Did you share in the creation of all things?
Can you follow him in that?
Can you baptise men in the Holy Spirit?
Can you save anyone?
Can you give your blood for all of humanitys sins?
Can you forgive sins?
Can you raise yourself from the dead?
Can you be the bread of life for all men?
Is the Holy Spirit subservient to you?
Can you dwell in millions of believers and recieve their prayers and bear their burdens and be with them all at the same time?
Can you follow him in these things?
Does all things consist by you?
Can you uphold all things by the word of your power?
Can you be the light that lights every man?
Can you follow him in these things?
My Jesus is bigger than yours martian.
For apparantly your Jesus is just another man that was anointed by God!
Wow I have been on a dozen or more boards. I have debated Wiccans, witches, Moonies and atheists and yet I have never seen such a bogus pile of nonsense in my life. Every scriture you try to use is filtered through a preconcieved idea of the Trinity. You deny that Jesus as a man with a mantle from God and given all authority in heaven and Earth could do the things you state. I am dumbfounded at your willing ignorance and inability to accept plain scripture and common sense.I will reply to only one of your comments. Your perception of Jesus is bigger then mine. So big in fact that your belief in him being God denies us the posibility to be like Him. So much for the plan of God. So much for christianity.
MartianOf course you have no answers for my questions!
For that would bring you to the conclusion that Yeshua is not just a mere man!
Truthfully you are a man of assumptions. You assume the deity of Christ and you further assume I ran in fear of your awesome questions. Your questions and you concepts are perfect examples of imaginations that lift themselves up above the truth of God.Tell me, is there there any subject more important than understanding who God is?
Response –
Depends. If you are speaking of an intellectual mental ascension knowledge or a abstract philosophy about Jesus then there are many better ways to know him.
—————————
How can you know him apart from knowing Yeshua?Response-
It is true that you know Jesus through His son revealing Him to us. This does not require him being God. Others know God as we reveal him too. We are not Gods.
——————————-
If all you know about Yeshua is he is a mere man, then you cannot know God.
Response
Thank you your opinion.
—————————————And since you cant know anything about God apart from Yeshua then Yeshua has to be more than a mere man.
Response
Nice example of circular reasoning
————————————-
You have not explained how a mere man can be Omnipotent, Omnipresent, and Omniscient.How do you follow him in those things?
Response
First I would have to agree that Jesus is Omnipotent, Omnipresent, and Omniscient. You have not proven that in any way.
—————————————Will
you be able to share in the creation of the New Heavens and the New earth?Can you follow him in that?
Response –
Could be. Who knows what role we will play in Heaven. We are to be partakers of the divine nature. That includes his creative nature. If Jesus does it then so do we since we are joint heirs with Him.
————————————–
Did you share in the creation of all things?Can you follow him in that?
response –
Again you have to establish that Jesus did this. You have not.
————————————–
Can you baptise men in the Holy Spirit?Can you save anyone?
Can you give your blood for all of humanitys sins?
Can you forgive sins?
Can you raise yourself from the dead?
Can you be the bread of life for all men?
Response –
Yes to all of the above IF I am given the mantle of Messiah and given all authority in Heaven and Earth.
———————————————
Is the Holy Spirit subservient to you?
Response
Again you start from a preconceived idea that is not proven and then try to prove something more from there. Circular reasoning. You must first establish that the special breath (Holy Spirit) is a person and can be subservient at all.
———————————-
Can you dwell in millions of believers and recieve their prayers and bear their burdens and be with them all at the same time?Can you follow him in these things?
Response –
Again after his resurection and still possesing all authority in heaven and Earth Jesus can. That does not prove diety.
—————————————Does all things consist by you?
Can you uphold all things by the word of your power?
Can you be the light that lights every man?
Can you follow him in these things?
Response –
Again I could do all those things if God gives me authority to do so. Just like Jesus.
————————————-
My Jesus is bigger than yours martian.
Response
You are right. Your Jesus is much bigger then mine. So big he cannot be a viable example for us. So big he cannot be human. So big you have him usurping the authority of God (the same sin as Satan) So big that you have placed him as another God before YHWH. So big that you make YHWH unfair in that you make God out to expect us to live up to the example of a God.
—————————————–
For apparantly your Jesus is just another man that was anointed by God!
Reply
I am so sorry that you think so little of God’s most precious creation (man) and so little about God’s ability to give power to His children that you cannot see your error. I am even more fearful for you that by denying Christ (The anointed one) you are teaching the Anti-Christ.You have not brought up one single aspect of Jesus’ life or ministry that requires Him to be a God.
BTW There was never a problem answering your post. Your points are simplistic, non scriptural and silly to anyone with common sense, but thanks for playing the game. You are a somewhat entertaining. What else good your stand is I do not know.
Quote Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 25 2007,18:58)
Yeshua was with God and was GodOK.
“God was with God?”
That is 2 Gods.
Try again.
God also refers to Christ as God, but the scripture makes it clear that it is the Father speaking to the Son.
In John 1:1 states that in the beginning the Word was with God and was God. This scripture does not describe the nature of the relationship of the Father and the Son. We have to refer the rest of the book of John to find those answers. The remainder of the gospel shows that Christ in 100% subject to the Father and can do nothing by himself. Furthermore, he operates under the authority of his Father.
John 1:1 also states “In the beginning..” When was the beginning? Jesus said that Satan was a liar from the beginning. We can reasonable conclude that the beginning points to the beginning of our age, since God is eternal. Jesus was with God the Father in the beginning. That is at the beginning of our age.
Jesus never said that he was with the Father eternally. He always implies just the opposite; he is the Son of God. He was born of God at some time before the foundation of the world. That's the gospel.
Jesus explains in many parables that the kingdom of God is like unto servants who have been given talents and the ability to use those talents for the benefit of God. Those who work with their talents faithfully are rewarded by God. Those who do not, are judged otherwise.
For all these reasons that Christ gave us about the Kingdom of God is why we know that he pre-existed. Jesus is teaching us that God the Father gradually exalts his children based upon their faithfulness to do his will. Before Christ performed any of the marvellous works that distinguished him as the Son of God, the Father already said this is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased so he must have already performed works for God prior to coming to earth.
God does not take a baby and make him Lord of heaven and earth. Christ was exalted by God before coming to earth and emptied himself and took on the form of a servant. He became poor that we might know God, too. The true riches of the kingdom of God.
Jesus said many prophets and righteous men desired to hear the truths that he unveiled about the kingdom of God but could not because it was not the time.
Take care
Steven
I would like to make clear the differences I see between Jesus and the rest of humanity.
First of all Jesus is the only begotten son of God. It is not clear how the Father impregnated Mary, however it is clear that the breath of God was involved in a major way. This ties in with the animating presence of God’s breath in giving Adam life. To the Hebrew writers of scripture, breath was analogous with life.
Matthew 1:18?[ Conception and Birth of Jesus ] Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: when His mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child by the special breath (Holy Spirit).
Matthew 1:20?But when he had considered this, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, ” Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife; for the Child who has been conceived in her is of the special breath (Holy Spirit).
Second – It seems reasonable that Jesus was raised and had communication with his Father (God) through his childhood. This could account for his baffling the teachers at 12 years old. This means he had wisdom taught to him that we may miss being raised by imperfect parents.
Third – Jesus had the mantle of the Messiah placed on him By God. As a requirement for this He was given all authority in heaven and Earth. This accounts for his seeming God like authority.
None of these things demands that He be anything other then completely human.
Quote (Mr. Steve @ Dec. 27 2007,07:43) Quote Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 25 2007,18:58)
Yeshua was with God and was GodOK.
“God was with God?”
That is 2 Gods.
Try again.
God also refers to Christ as God, but the scripture makes it clear that it is the Father speaking to the Son.
In John 1:1 states that in the beginning the Word was with God and was God. This scripture does not describe the nature of the relationship of the Father and the Son. We have to refer the rest of the book of John to find those answers. The remainder of the gospel shows that Christ in 100% subject to the Father and can do nothing by himself. Furthermore, he operates under the authority of his Father.
John 1:1 also states “In the beginning..” When was the beginning? Jesus said that Satan was a liar from the beginning. We can reasonable conclude that the beginning points to the beginning of our age, since God is eternal. Jesus was with God the Father in the beginning. That is at the beginning of our age.
Jesus never said that he was with the Father eternally. He always implies just the opposite; he is the Son of God. He was born of God at some time before the foundation of the world. That's the gospel.
Jesus explains in many parables that the kingdom of God is like unto servants who have been given talents and the ability to use those talents for the benefit of God. Those who work with their talents faithfully are rewarded by God. Those who do not, are judged otherwise.
For all these reasons that Christ gave us about the Kingdom of God is why we know that he pre-existed. Jesus is teaching us that God the Father gradually exalts his children based upon their faithfulness to do his will. Before Christ performed any of the marvellous works that distinguished him as the Son of God, the Father already said this is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased so he must have already performed works for God prior to coming to earth.
God does not take a baby and make him Lord of heaven and earth. Christ was exalted by God before coming to earth and emptied himself and took on the form of a servant. He became poor that we might know God, too. The true riches of the kingdom of God.
Jesus said many prophets and righteous men desired to hear the truths that he unveiled about the kingdom of God but could not because it was not the time.
Take care
Steven
Steve –
John 1:1 also states “In the beginning..” When was the beginning? Jesus said that Satan was a liar from the beginning. We can reasonable conclude that the beginning points to the beginning of our age, since God is eternal. Jesus was with God the Father in the beginning. That is at the beginning of our age.Response –
That is an interesting take on this verse. However it does not say that Jesus was with God in the beginning, it says the Word (logos) was with God. No one has proven that they are the same thing.Steve –
For all these reasons that Christ gave us about the Kingdom of God is why we know that he pre-existed. Jesus is teaching us that God the Father gradually exalts his children based upon their faithfulness to do his will. Before Christ performed any of the marvellous works that distinguished him as the Son of God, the Father already said this is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased so he must have already performed works for God prior to coming to earth.Response-
God said He was well pleased when Jesus was 30 years old. It is speculation that Jesus needed to perform tasks prior to his birth. What of the 30 years prior to his baptism? God also never said that there were any works required for Him to be pleased with Jesus.Steve
God does not take a baby and make him Lord of heaven and earth.Response –
Speculation —
Steve
Christ was exalted by God before coming to earth and emptied himself and took on the form of a servant. He became poor that we might know God, too. The true riches of the kingdom of God.Response
The use of Philippians to prove some emptying of Jesus of deity or Glory does not hold true within the context.
The context says that we should have the same ATTITUDE in us as found in Jesus, who although had all authority in heaven and Earth and could have lorded over us, he became a servant to his brethren. The context is about attitude not about glory or deity. Only a preconceived idea when reading this verse and ignoring the context can use it to say something else.If the SON of God existed before He became flesh then who was His mother?
I don't believe the Father had any “BORN” children before Jesus. All were created. Rev.3:14
I believe that's what this flesh is all about~born~children. A new creation a born creation that will be above the angels. The very children of God! Just as Jesus is NOW the Son of God.
Quote (kenrch @ Dec. 27 2007,09:44) If the SON of God existed before He became flesh then who was His mother? I don't believe the Father had any “BORN” children before Jesus. All were created. Rev.3:14
I believe that's what this flesh is all about~born~children. A new creation a born creation that will be above the angels. The very children of God! Just as Jesus is NOW the Son of God.
Right !!!
In fact, the hebrew concept of coming in the flesh carries with it the understanding of coming in th natural physical realm just like the rest of us.Quote (martian @ Dec. 26 2007,03:00) BTW There was never a problem answering your post. Your points are simplistic, non scriptural and silly to anyone with common sense, but thanks for playing the game. You are a somewhat entertaining. What else good your stand is I do not know.
He he…say what you like about WJ, but as far as I know he has not created a new Heaven.Net identity and used the second identity (AKA yourself) to pay homage to the first (AKA yourself)!! But you have Martian, you have….
Quote (Is 1:18 @ Dec. 27 2007,17:55) Quote (martian @ Dec. 26 2007,03:00) BTW There was never a problem answering your post. Your points are simplistic, non scriptural and silly to anyone with common sense, but thanks for playing the game. You are a somewhat entertaining. What else good your stand is I do not know.
He he…say what you like about WJ, but as far as I know he has not created a new Heaven.Net identity and used the second identity (AKA yourself) to pay homage to the first (AKA yourself)!! But you have Martian, you have….
Hi Is 1:18,Martian admitted to that change of identity some time ago.
I fail to see how that has any bearing on the validity of present or future posts by him.
I would hate to think that no one would listen to anything that I had to say because of mistakes that I have made in the past. Good Lord, I can't even remember them all.Tim
That has no bearing on what Martian said Is.
Nothing whatsoever.We are talking about scripture and a 3rd century doctrine in this discussion. Martian made a point regarding WJ's arguments in this discussion.
What Heaven.Net identities has to do with all this is anyone's guess, except to say it appears that you wish to give WJ some credibility by trying to make Martian look silly regarding his change in identity.
But I think that people here are mature enough to just want the truth and to see such comments as nonconstructive.
Quote (Is 1:18 @ Dec. 27 2007,17:55) Quote (martian @ Dec. 26 2007,03:00) BTW There was never a problem answering your post. Your points are simplistic, non scriptural and silly to anyone with common sense, but thanks for playing the game. You are a somewhat entertaining. What else good your stand is I do not know.
He he…say what you like about WJ, but as far as I know he has not created a new Heaven.Net identity and used the second identity (AKA yourself) to pay homage to the first (AKA yourself)!! But you have Martian, you have….
Hey Is-1
Where have you been? How's that baby?Quote (Is 1:18 @ Dec. 27 2007,17:55) Quote (martian @ Dec. 26 2007,03:00) BTW There was never a problem answering your post. Your points are simplistic, non scriptural and silly to anyone with common sense, but thanks for playing the game. You are a somewhat entertaining. What else good your stand is I do not know.
He he…say what you like about WJ, but as far as I know he has not created a new Heaven.Net identity and used the second identity (AKA yourself) to pay homage to the first (AKA yourself)!! But you have Martian, you have….
You konw what, I made that mistake a long time ago. I repented before the Lord and here. I find it curious that you feel a need to drag it up from under the blood. I thought that job was taken by the accuser of the brethren.
I made no personal attack on WJ. I said that his COMMENTS were silly, lacked common sense and non scriptural. Now unless WJ is a comment, I do not see your point.Everyoe must be enjoying the holidays with their families. Unfortunately my sons are serving their country and could not come home this year. Makes for a quite holiday.
martian I am really sorry that your Son's are not Home with you. Just be proud of them, not sad. I have not seen one of our Son's either for almost 2years and He lives in the same City were i do.
God Bless you and your Family.Peace and Love Mrs.
Quote (martian @ Dec. 26 2007,03:00) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 25 2007,17:52) Quote (martian @ Dec. 25 2007,16:03) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 25 2007,04:16) Quote (martian @ Dec. 24 2007,03:06) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 23 2007,18:56) martian So you think this is a game?
There are many listening and watching. Souls are at stake here.
Words are powerful.
Just because no one can see us or hear us verbally dosnt mean that the words we say can not have influence on souls.
This is not a game.
Matt 12:33
Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by [his] fruit.
34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.Words are important my friend!
Talk about a contradiction. Your post scripture that prove my point.Matt 12:33
Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by [his] fruit.
34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.Talk about a scripture proving what I have said about a working doctrine.
What fruit is there from the doctrine of the Trinity. Fruit that actually changes the heart and not the mind.
Since the doctrine does nothing to change the heart, the Trinity does not build any good treasure in the heart.
Now who will stand in judgment for sidetracking people’s minds in doctrines that do nothing and produce no good fruit.It is real obvious why you choose to put down the concept of functionality. It is because the doctrine you preach has no realistic function. No fruit in the heart and no purpose toward making us like Christ. A WASTE OF TIME! A GAME —
MartianTell me, is there there any subject more important than understanding who God is?
How can you know him apart from knowing Yeshua?
If all you know about Yeshua is he is a mere man, then you cannot know God.
And since you cant know anything about God apart from Yeshua then Yeshua has to be more than a mere man.
Simple!
You have not explained how a mere man can be Omnipotent, Omnipresent, and Omniscient.
How do you follow him in those things?
Can you be like him in every way? Can you have or ever have those attributes of God?
Will you be able to share in the creation of the New Heavens and the New earth?
Can you follow him in that?
Did you share in the creation of all things?
Can you follow him in that?
Can you baptise men in the Holy Spirit?
Can you save anyone?
Can you give your blood for all of humanitys sins?
Can you forgive sins?
Can you raise yourself from the dead?
Can you be the bread of life for all men?
Is the Holy Spirit subservient to you?
Can you dwell in millions of believers and recieve their prayers and bear their burdens and be with them all at the same time?
Can you follow him in these things?
Does all things consist by you?
Can you uphold all things by the word of your power?
Can you be the light that lights every man?
Can you follow him in these things?
My Jesus is bigger than yours martian.
For apparantly your Jesus is just another man that was anointed by God!
Wow I have been on a dozen or more boards. I have debated Wiccans, witches, Moonies and atheists and yet I have never seen such a bogus pile of nonsense in my life. Every scriture you try to use is filtered through a preconcieved idea of the Trinity. You deny that Jesus as a man with a mantle from God and given all authority in heaven and Earth could do the things you state. I am dumbfounded at your willing ignorance and inability to accept plain scripture and common sense.I will reply to only one of your comments. Your perception of Jesus is bigger then mine. So big in fact that your belief in him being God denies us the posibility to be like Him. So much for the plan of God. So much for christianity.
MartianOf course you have no answers for my questions!
For that would bring you to the conclusion that Yeshua is not just a mere man!
Truthfully you are a man of assumptions. You assume the deity of Christ and you further assume I ran in fear of your awesome questions. Your questions and you concepts are perfect examples of imaginations that lift themselves up above the truth of God.Tell me, is there there any subject more important than understanding who God is?
Response –
Depends. If you are speaking of an intellectual mental ascension knowledge or a abstract philosophy about Jesus then there are many better ways to know him.
—————————
How can you know him apart from knowing Yeshua?Response-
It is true that you know Jesus through His son revealing Him to us. This does not require him being God. Others know God as we reveal him too. We are not Gods.
——————————-
If all you know about Yeshua is he is a mere man, then you cannot know God.
Response
Thank you your opinion.
—————————————And since you cant know anything about God apart from Yeshua then Yeshua has to be more than a mere man.
Response
Nice example of circular reasoning
————————————-
You have not explained how a mere man can be Omnipotent, Omnipresent, and Omniscient.How do you follow him in those things?
Response
First I would have to agree that Jesus is Omnipotent, Omnipresent, and Omniscient. You have not proven that in any way.
—————————————Will you be able to share in the creation of the New Heavens and the New earth?
Can you follow him in that?
Response –
Could be. Who knows what role we will play in Heaven. We are to be partakers of the divine nature. That includes his creative nature. If Jesus does it then so do we since we are joint heirs with Him.
————————————–
Did you share in the creation of all things?Can you follow him in that?
response –
Again you have to establish that Jesus did this. You have not.
————————————–
Can you baptise men in the Holy Spirit?Can you save anyone?
Can you give your blood for all of humanitys sins?
Can you forgive sins?
Can you raise yourself from the dead?
Can you be the bread of life for all men?
Response –
Yes to all of the above IF I am given the mantle of Messiah and given all authority in Heaven and Earth.
———————————————
Is the Holy Spirit subservient to you?
Response
Again you start from a preconceived idea that is not proven and then try to prove something more from there. Circular reasoning. You must first establish that the special breath (Holy Spirit) is a person and can be subservient at all.
———————————-
Can you dwell in millions of believers and recieve their prayers and bear their burdens and be with them all at the same time?Can you follow him in these things?
Response –
Again after his resurection and still possesing all authority in heaven and Earth Jesus can. That does not prove diety.
—————————————Does all things consist by you?
Can you uphold all things by the word of your power?
Can you be the light that lights every man?
Can you follow him in these things?
Response –
Again I could do all those things if God gives me authority to do so. Just like Jesus.
————————————-
My Jesus is bigger than yours martian.
Response
You are right. Your Jesus is much bigger then mine. So big he cannot be a viable example for us. So big he cannot be human. So big you have him usurping the authority of God (the same sin as Satan) So big that you have placed him as another God before YHWH. So big that you make YHWH unfair in that you make God out to expect us to live up to the example of a God.
—————————————–
For apparantly your Jesus is just another man that was anointed by God!
Reply
I am so sorry that you think so little of God’s most precious creation (man) and so little about God’s ability to give power to His children that you cannot see your error. I am even more fearful for you that by denying Christ (The anointed one) you are teaching the Anti-Christ.You have not brought up one single aspect of Jesus’ life or ministry that requires Him to be a God.
BTW There was never a problem answering your post. Your points are simplistic, non scriptural and silly to anyone with common sense, but thanks for playing the game. You are a somewhat entertaining. What else good your stand is I do not know.
martianI read your post today and thought it was typical.
You simply once again made Yeshua out to be just a mere man.
I will address your points individually later.
Quote (IM4Truth @ Dec. 28 2007,13:18) martian I am really sorry that your Son's are not Home with you. Just be proud of them, not sad. I have not seen one of our Son's either for almost 2years and He lives in the same City were i do.
God Bless you and your Family.Peace and Love Mrs.
I am very proud of my boys. They both chose to serve first before a career in the world. My oldest said that before he can honestly have the blessings of this country he must first insure it's continual protection.
Good kid. Very smart. My most important ministry aftr my wife left, I raised them alone for 15 years.
When I questioned my yungest about serving he said. “Don't worry dad, if something happens I will see you again on the other side. Another smart kid.Quote (TimothyVI @ Dec. 27 2007,22:03) Quote (Is 1:18 @ Dec. 27 2007,17:55) Quote (martian @ Dec. 26 2007,03:00) BTW There was never a problem answering your post. Your points are simplistic, non scriptural and silly to anyone with common sense, but thanks for playing the game. You are a somewhat entertaining. What else good your stand is I do not know.
He he…say what you like about WJ, but as far as I know he has not created a new Heaven.Net identity and used the second identity (AKA yourself) to pay homage to the first (AKA yourself)!! But you have Martian, you have….
Hi Is 1:18,Martian admitted to that change of identity some time ago.
I fail to see how that has any bearing on the validity of present or future posts by him.
I would hate to think that no one would listen to anything that I had to say because of mistakes that I have made in the past. Good Lord, I can't even remember them all.Tim
TimI think the point that Isa 1:18 is making is that martian was less than honest about his identity and did this because he was at that time implying people were “monkeys” who did not agree with his “Functional” doctrine. He had become very aggressive in personal attacks against everyone who didnt agree with him.
So now he attacks my person or character with words like silly, ignorant, stupid etc.
His and t8s constant patronizing rather than sincere dialogue is lacking in fruit IMO.
Quote (martian @ Dec. 28 2007,13:33) Quote (IM4Truth @ Dec. 28 2007,13:18) martian I am really sorry that your Son's are not Home with you. Just be proud of them, not sad. I have not seen one of our Son's either for almost 2years and He lives in the same City were i do.
God Bless you and your Family.Peace and Love Mrs.
I am very proud of my boys. They both chose to serve first before a career in the world. My oldest said that before he can honestly have the blessings of this country he must first insure it's continual protection.
Good kid. Very smart. My most important ministry aftr my wife left, I raised them alone for 15 years.
When I questioned my yungest about serving he said. “Don't worry dad, if something happens I will see you again on the other side. Another smart kid.
martianMy prayers go out to your sons.
Thank you for raising sons willing to fight for our freedoms.
Thank them for theirs and your sacrifice.
Blessings!
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 29 2007,03:47) Quote (TimothyVI @ Dec. 27 2007,22:03) Quote (Is 1:18 @ Dec. 27 2007,17:55) Quote (martian @ Dec. 26 2007,03:00) BTW There was never a problem answering your post. Your points are simplistic, non scriptural and silly to anyone with common sense, but thanks for playing the game. You are a somewhat entertaining. What else good your stand is I do not know.
He he…say what you like about WJ, but as far as I know he has not created a new Heaven.Net identity and used the second identity (AKA yourself) to pay homage to the first (AKA yourself)!! But you have Martian, you have….
Hi Is 1:18,Martian admitted to that change of identity some time ago.
I fail to see how that has any bearing on the validity of present or future posts by him.
I would hate to think that no one would listen to anything that I had to say because of mistakes that I have made in the past. Good Lord, I can't even remember them all.Tim
TimI think the point that Isa 1:18 is making is that martian was less than honest about his identity and did this because he was at that time implying people were “monkeys” who did not agree with his “Functional” doctrine. He had become very aggressive in personal attacks against everyone who didnt agree with him.
So now he attacks my person or character with words like silly, ignorant, stupid etc.
His and t8s constant patronizing rather than sincere dialogue is lacking in fruit IMO.
I did not attack your person. I did attack your posts. There is a big diffeence. If your security is in your posts then you have a much bigger problem then the trinity.
I said your posts were silly not you. Many people say silly things. This does not mean they are silly.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 29 2007,03:50) Quote (martian @ Dec. 28 2007,13:33) Quote (IM4Truth @ Dec. 28 2007,13:18) martian I am really sorry that your Son's are not Home with you. Just be proud of them, not sad. I have not seen one of our Son's either for almost 2years and He lives in the same City were i do.
God Bless you and your Family.Peace and Love Mrs.
I am very proud of my boys. They both chose to serve first before a career in the world. My oldest said that before he can honestly have the blessings of this country he must first insure it's continual protection.
Good kid. Very smart. My most important ministry aftr my wife left, I raised them alone for 15 years.
When I questioned my yungest about serving he said. “Don't worry dad, if something happens I will see you again on the other side. Another smart kid.
martianMy prayers go out to your sons.
Thank you for raising sons willing to fight for our freedoms.
Thank them for theirs and your sacrifice.
Blessings!
Thank you. I appreciate your words.
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