- This topic has 18,301 replies, 269 voices, and was last updated 1 year, 5 months ago by
.
- Posts
Martian…..> the 'doctrine of the Trinity does infact hinder fruits of the spirit, if we believe in a triune God Head, we are breaking up the absoluteness of One God , were attributing God's work and power to other beings and this is called IDOLATRY, God will not hear Idolators, they are just like the ancient Israelites, there giving credit of God's work to others, its the very reason God Kicked them our of there land He gave them, it wasn't because of there many sins they had, it was because of IDOLATRY He drove them out.
While trinitarians do acknowledge Jesus death for there sins, they think that He was very God and came down from Heaven and became a man and died Himself on the cross, How little respect can they have for and all powerfull ,all knowing GOD, who said I GIVE MY GLORY TO (NO) MAN. Jesus was a MAN not a DIETY a 100% human being. In Whom God via HOLY SPIRIT indwellt Jesus said the Father was in HIM (NOT) that He was the Father, and said HE could do (NOTHING) of Himself, It was the Father the Did the works. There is only (ONE) GOD and (ONE) mediator between man and God, (THE MAN) Jesus Christ.Believe me Martin it does make a difference on fruits of the Spirit to see through the LIE of the trinity doctrine. History is a good example of fruits of the of the Trinity teaching, look at all the blood shed and torture caused by the ones holding to it's teachings, look to their great reformer John Calvin who had the Spaniard Micheal Servetus burned at the stake for writing a paper aganist the Trinity, If you want a word for word transcritpt of the trial, get the book (Out of the Flames) by Lawrence & Nancy Goldstone, . O it makes a DIFFERENCE of the Fruit of the Spirit alright. Jesus quoted, Hear O Israel the LORD OUR GOD is ONE. Notice He says (OUR GOD) that included Him also.
But you know these things anyway, but i tell you Martian the trinity teaching does affect the fruits a person is producing, because it effects there thinking.
Peace to you and yours Martian……gene
Hi WJ,
Where is this written
“You have not explained how a mere man can be Omnipotent, Omnipresent, and Omniscient.”
If Christ was not a man I agree you cannot follow him.Quote (Son of Light @ Dec. 25 2007,04:57) [IMG]http://img139.imageshack.us/img139….MG] Image Hosting
SOLModalistic for sure.
Hi WJ,
Is Jesus your God?
Why not follow him and worship his God.?
Did he tell his followers to forgive sin?Hi WJ,
So you will not yet admit Jesus is man anointed by God?
Scripture says in several places that Jesus of Nazareth was a man.
Acts 10 tells us he was anointed with the Holy Spirit and power.Which scriptures will you accept as true?
- Jesus came in the flesh
- Jesus died for humanity
- Jesus was resurrected
- Jesus is seated at the right hand of God
Now let's put on some Trinity glasses and look at the above.
- God came in the flesh
- God died
- God was resurrected
- God was seated at the right hand of God
As usual, the Trinity doctrine is absurd and ridicules scripture.
Why would anyone want to defend that silly doctrine?
Such a person would need to repent.
Quote (t8 @ Dec. 25 2007,14:59) - Jesus came in the flesh
- Jesus died for humanity
- Jesus was resurrected
- Jesus is seated at the right hand of God
Now let's put on some Trinity glasses and look at the above.
- God came in the flesh
- God died
- God was resurrected
- God was seated at the right hand of God
As usual, the Trinity doctrine is absurd and ridicules scripture.
Why would anyone want to defend that silly doctrine?
Such a person would need to repent.
WHOA – WAIT A MINUTE. Not allowed to use common sense here. Common sense is too close to functionality. Common sense would dictate that the Trinity is false. Can't have that.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 25 2007,04:16) Quote (martian @ Dec. 24 2007,03:06) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 23 2007,18:56) martian So you think this is a game?
There are many listening and watching. Souls are at stake here.
Words are powerful.
Just because no one can see us or hear us verbally dosnt mean that the words we say can not have influence on souls.
This is not a game.
Matt 12:33
Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by [his] fruit.
34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.Words are important my friend!
Talk about a contradiction. Your post scripture that prove my point.Matt 12:33
Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by [his] fruit.
34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.Talk about a scripture proving what I have said about a working doctrine.
What fruit is there from the doctrine of the Trinity. Fruit that actually changes the heart and not the mind.
Since the doctrine does nothing to change the heart, the Trinity does not build any good treasure in the heart.
Now who will stand in judgment for sidetracking people’s minds in doctrines that do nothing and produce no good fruit.It is real obvious why you choose to put down the concept of functionality. It is because the doctrine you preach has no realistic function. No fruit in the heart and no purpose toward making us like Christ. A WASTE OF TIME! A GAME —
MartianTell me, is there there any subject more important than understanding who God is?
How can you know him apart from knowing Yeshua?
If all you know about Yeshua is he is a mere man, then you cannot know God.
And since you cant know anything about God apart from Yeshua then Yeshua has to be more than a mere man.
Simple!
You have not explained how a mere man can be Omnipotent, Omnipresent, and Omniscient.
How do you follow him in those things?
Can you be like him in every way? Can you have or ever have those attributes of God?
Will you be able to share in the creation of the New Heavens and the New earth?
Can you follow him in that?
Did you share in the creation of all things?
Can you follow him in that?
Can you baptise men in the Holy Spirit?
Can you save anyone?
Can you give your blood for all of humanitys sins?
Can you forgive sins?
Can you raise yourself from the dead?
Can you be the bread of life for all men?
Is the Holy Spirit subservient to you?
Can you dwell in millions of believers and recieve their prayers and bear their burdens and be with them all at the same time?
Can you follow him in these things?
Does all things consist by you?
Can you uphold all things by the word of your power?
Can you be the light that lights every man?
Can you follow him in these things?
My Jesus is bigger than yours martian.
For apparantly your Jesus is just another man that was anointed by God!
Wow I have been on a dozen or more boards. I have debated Wiccans, witches, Moonies and atheists and yet I have never seen such a bogus pile of nonsense in my life. Every scriture you try to use is filtered through a preconcieved idea of the Trinity. You deny that Jesus as a man with a mantle from God and given all authority in heaven and Earth could do the things you state. I am dumbfounded at your willing ignorance and inability to accept plain scripture and common sense.I will reply to only one of your comments. Your perception of Jesus is bigger then mine. So big in fact that your belief in him being God denies us the posibility to be like Him. So much for the plan of God. So much for christianity.
Quote (martian @ Dec. 25 2007,16:03) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 25 2007,04:16) Quote (martian @ Dec. 24 2007,03:06) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 23 2007,18:56) martian So you think this is a game?
There are many listening and watching. Souls are at stake here.
Words are powerful.
Just because no one can see us or hear us verbally dosnt mean that the words we say can not have influence on souls.
This is not a game.
Matt 12:33
Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by [his] fruit.
34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.Words are important my friend!
Talk about a contradiction. Your post scripture that prove my point.Matt 12:33
Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by [his] fruit.
34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.Talk about a scripture proving what I have said about a working doctrine.
What fruit is there from the doctrine of the Trinity. Fruit that actually changes the heart and not the mind.
Since the doctrine does nothing to change the heart, the Trinity does not build any good treasure in the heart.
Now who will stand in judgment for sidetracking people’s minds in doctrines that do nothing and produce no good fruit.It is real obvious why you choose to put down the concept of functionality. It is because the doctrine you preach has no realistic function. No fruit in the heart and no purpose toward making us like Christ. A WASTE OF TIME! A GAME —
MartianTell me, is there there any subject more important than understanding who God is?
How can you know him apart from knowing Yeshua?
If all you know about Yeshua is he is a mere man, then you cannot know God.
And since you cant know anything about God apart from Yeshua then Yeshua has to be more than a mere man.
Simple!
You have not explained how a mere man can be Omnipotent, Omnipresent, and Omniscient.
How do you follow him in those things?
Can you be like him in every way? Can you have or ever have those attributes of God?
Will you be able to share in the creation of the New Heavens and the New earth?
Can you follow him in that?
Did you share in the creation of all things?
Can you follow him in that?
Can you baptise men in the Holy Spirit?
Can you save anyone?
Can you give your blood for all of humanitys sins?
Can you forgive sins?
Can you raise yourself from the dead?
Can you be the bread of life for all men?
Is the Holy Spirit subservient to you?
Can you dwell in millions of believers and recieve their prayers and bear their burdens and be with them all at the same time?
Can you follow him in these things?
Does all things consist by you?
Can you uphold all things by the word of your power?
Can you be the light that lights every man?
Can you follow him in these things?
My Jesus is bigger than yours martian.
For apparantly your Jesus is just another man that was anointed by God!
Wow I have been on a dozen or more boards. I have debated Wiccans, witches, Moonies and atheists and yet I have never seen such a bogus pile of nonsense in my life. Every scriture you try to use is filtered through a preconcieved idea of the Trinity. You deny that Jesus as a man with a mantle from God and given all authority in heaven and Earth could do the things you state. I am dumbfounded at your willing ignorance and inability to accept plain scripture and common sense.I will reply to only one of your comments. Your perception of Jesus is bigger then mine. So big in fact that your belief in him being God denies us the posibility to be like Him. So much for the plan of God. So much for christianity.
MartianOf course you have no answers for my questions!
For that would bring you to the conclusion that Yeshua is not just a mere man!
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 25 2007,09:58) Hi WJ,
Is Jesus your God?NH
Yes. Jn 1:1, Jn 20:28, Heb 1:8, Tit 2:13, 1 John 5:20, Rev 1:8, to start.
Quote Why not follow him and worship his God.? Jn 14:6, Matt 28:9, Mark 5:6
Quote Did he tell his followers to forgive sin? Can you forgive mens sins?
If you can forgive mens sins, then none you meet should be without salvation, correct?
I am surprised NH, that is a practice of the RCC and their priest!
Only God can forgive sins. We can forgive those who sin against us!
Just as Stephen did when he cried out to Yeshua at his death to lay not that sin to their charge, and then Yeshua recieved his Spirit!
Mark 2:7
“Why does this fellow talk like that? He's blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?”OK, your question is above WJ.
Now look at the answer?
Mark 2:10
But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins . . . .” He said to the paralytic,Uhuh. The son of Man has authority.
It doesn't say because he is God he can forgive sins, but because the SON OF MAN has the authority.See how your doctrine blinded you to that one?
Now look at this:
Luke 17:3
So watch yourselves. “If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him.We can forgive if there is repentance and guess what, God forgives when there is repentance too.
So God forgives when Jesus forgives.
Likewise Paul also forgave when Timothy forgave:2 Corinthians 2:9-11
9 The reason I wrote you was to see if you would stand the test and be obedient in everything.
10 If you forgive anyone, I also forgive him. And what I have forgiven—if there was anything to forgive—I have forgiven in the sight of Christ for your sake,
11 in order that Satan might not outwit us. For we are not unaware of his schemes.This whole idea that Jesus forgave sins because he is God is what some particular Jews argued. It seems that some have followed them.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 25 2007,18:26) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 25 2007,09:58) Hi WJ,
Is Jesus your God?NH
Yes. Jn 1:1, Jn 20:28, Heb 1:8, Tit 2:13, 1 John 5:20, Rev 1:8, to start.
Quote Why not follow him and worship his God.? Jn 14:6, Matt 28:9, Mark 5:6
Quote Did he tell his followers to forgive sin? Can you forgive mens sins?
If you can forgive mens sins, then none you meet should be without salvation, correct?
I am surprised NH, that is a practice of the RCC and their priest!
Only God can forgive sins. We can forgive those who sin against us!
Just as Stephen did when he cried out to Yeshua at his death to lay not that sin to their charge, and then Yeshua recieved his Spirit!
Hi WJ,
Do you not accept this one either?
Jn20
21Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.22And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
23Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.
You should follow Jesus and worship his God.
We do not make up our own plans do we?Hi WJ,
You should not work from a theology base but the bible.
All authority was given to Jesus.
That included the authority to forgive sins.
It also gave him the right to pass that role on to his followers.
Wake up.Quote (t8 @ Dec. 25 2007,18:34) Mark 2:7
“Why does this fellow talk like that? He's blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?”OK, your question is above WJ.
Now look at the answer?
Mark 2:10
But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins . . . .” He said to the paralytic,Uhuh. The son of Man has authority.
See how your doctrine blinded you to that one?
Now look at this:
Luke 17:3
So watch yourselves. “If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him.We can forgive if there is repentance and guess what, God forgives when there is repentance too.
t8
Well. like I said. God only can forgive sins.
Quote Mark 2:7
“Why does this fellow talk like that? He's blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?”OK, your question is above WJ.
Now look at the answer?
Mark 2:10
But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins . . . .” He said to the paralytic,He had authority because he is the creator, the Lord of the Sabbath. And because he is “The Son of Man”. Are you the “Son of Man”?
So you must also believe like the RCC priest?
Quote Uhuh. The son of Man has authority. See how your doctrine blinded you to that one?
Not at all t8. My doctrine says Yeshua was with God and was God when the creation was made by him and for him.
One God that made all things. Shall we mention those unanswered questions again?
Quote Luke 17:3
So watch yourselves. “If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him.We can forgive if there is repentance and guess what, God forgives when there is repentance too.
Luke 17:1
He said to His disciples, “It is inevitable that stumbling blocks come, but woe to him through whom they come!
Luk 17:2 “It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck and he were thrown into the sea, than that he would cause one of these little ones to stumble.
Luk 17:3 “Be on your guard! If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him.
Luk 17:4 “And if he sins against you seven times a day, and returns to you seven times, saying, 'I repent,' forgive him.”Context t8. But of course this is your way. Anything to deny the truth.
Only God can forgive sins or Yeshua wouldnt have had to die.
We could all just run around forgiving every one that repents!
I am surprised you believe you can forgive mens sins, who have not sinned against you?
Are you an RCC priest?
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 25 2007,18:58) t8 Well. like I said. God only can forgive sins.
So some Jews thought that Jesus was claiming to be God because he forgave sins and also because he said that he and the Father were one.Then Jesus defended each accusation by saying that as the SON OF MAN he had authority to forgive sins, and also said that he was the son of God and not God as the accusation insinuated.
So WJ, believes these particular Jews even over Jesus himself.
So that pretty much sums up where you are coming from WJ.
For others who read here, I will give you the scriptures so you can see that WJ indeed follows these Jews and disregards what Jesus said to defend himself.
Luke 5:20-24
20 When Jesus saw their faith, he said, “Friend, your sins are forgiven.”21 The Pharisees and the teachers of the law began thinking to themselves, “Who is this fellow who speaks blasphemy? Who can forgive sins but God alone?”
22 Jesus knew what they were thinking and asked, “Why are you thinking these things in your hearts? 23 Which is easier: to say, 'Your sins are forgiven,' or to say, 'Get up and walk'? 24 But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins….” He said to the paralyzed man, “I tell you, get up, take your mat and go home.”
John 10:30-36
30 I and the Father are one.”31 Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, 32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”
33 “We are not stoning you for any of these,” replied the Jews, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”
34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods'? 35 If he called them 'gods,' to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken— 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, 'I am God's Son'?
Wake up WJ.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 25 2007,18:58) Yeshua was with God and was God
OK.“God was with God?”
That is 2 Gods.
Try again.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 25 2007,18:58) Only God can forgive sins or Yeshua wouldnt have had to die.
Only God can forgive sins.
Only God is good.
Only God is the true authority.But in all things, God uses vessels to represent him and his will.
He made Jesus both Lord and Christ. He told Jesus what to say and do. He gives his authority to his his son.
In turn the son gives this authority to his Church.
WJ, doesn't understand that God is invisible and eternal and that he uses vessels/mediator/prophets/angels to communicate to his creation.
God does all things, but he uses things of him to represent him.
Often Jesus, angels, prophets, & men come to do the will of God.
WJ, is again blinded by a 3rd century doctrine.
All that Jesus has is because God gave it to him. This is what Jesus taught himself. He even said that no one is good but God alone. Obviously all the good that is in the son, was given to him by the Father.
Wake up WJ.
Please pray for WJ.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
