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Hi Jodi,
You think you have firmly established anything yet?
No you have offered scriptures that have been carefully filtered to exclude the reality of Satan.
Selfserving and deceptive doctrines do not receive a hearing among the followers of Jesus Christ
Hi Jodi,
Why do you doubt that the authority Jesus Christ had over the elements
is related to his power to heal and cleanse folk from their unclean spirits?
Ummm.
Hi Jodi,
Job 1.17f
While he was still speaking, another also came and said
’Your sons and your daughters were eating and drinking wine in their oldest brother’s house, and behold a great wind came from across the wilderness and struck the four corners of the house, and it fell on the young people and they died, and I alone have escaped to tell you’
What a wonderful and safe place earth will be when Satan is imprisoned for 1000 years.
Hi Jodi,
You say
”Demonic is to rendered unclean”
Really?
All these little adjustments to scripture you make to enable your dogma to at least look valid.
But this ramshackle hut of adjusted scriptures is starting to take on an unstable look.
Be careful that it does not collapse on you.
Hi Jodi,
Superstition is involved in the traditional interpretation of the teaching of Jesus you claim.
So where is the problem? Is it in the recording or in the translation?
What Jesus said is very clear and simple.
Do we need your glasses to understand it as you do?
Hi Jodi,
Certainly the false church based on the teachings of the world does not deserve any support but your doubts have called into question the work and teachings of God through His holy servant, Jesus Christ.
Perhaps you should reconsider in view of this serious collateral damage.
Hi Jodi,
1kings 22.19f
Micaiah said
’Therefore, hear the word of the Lord. I saw the Lord sitting on His throne and all the host of heaven standing by Him on His right and on His left. The Lord said
“Who will entice Ahab to go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead?”
And one said this while another said that. Then a spirit came forward and stood before the Lord and said.
”I will entice him”
The Lord said to him
”How?”
And he said
“I will go out and be a deceiving spirit in the mouth of all his prophets”
Then He said
”You are to entice him and also prevail. Go and do so”
An interesting view of the way God works through His angelic servants to test men.
Isaiah 57: 13 When thou criest, let thy companies deliver thee; but the wind shall carry them all away; vanity shall take them: but he that putteth his trust in me shall possess the land, and shall inherit my holy mountain;
Proverbs 21: 6 The getting of treasures by a lying tongue is a vanity tossed to and fro of them that seek death.
Ecc 1: 14 I have seen all the works that are done under the sun; and, behold, all is vanity and vexation of spirit.
Matthew 20:25 But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them.
Acts 4:25 Who by the mouth of thy servant David hast said, Why did the heathen rage, and the people IMAGINE VAIN things? 26 The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ. 27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,
They IMAGINED VAIN things, vein as in vanity which is DEFINED as breath, vapor, to act empty, as without the knowledge of God. Imagination defined as invented WITHIN the OWN mind, not from an outside source.
1 Corinthians 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: 7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: 8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory…..14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
The NATURAL MAN, he relies on his CARNAL MIND which is at enmity against God, because it relies on it’s own vein imaginations, imaginations that produce lies, they are empty they have no true meaning and thus are unclean spirits against God only to bring the darkness of death.
Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; 2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
COMBINE scripture and there you will find the TRUTH.
Man in his natural form is nothing but pure vanity, acting full of emptiness, not having the truth without God’s Spirit. The wisdom of this world is according to the vein imaginations of men. The Princes, the Gentiles, the Pharisees, all those who played a role in Christ’s crucifixion were according to the power of the air, their VANITY which is DEFINED as breath, vapor and is empty leading to death. Likewise the devil in Revelation 2 was a Prince following his vanity. This is the spirit that worketh in the children of disobedience, and is said to be a conversation with the lusts of the flesh. This is the spirit that makes us by NATURE children of wrath. This is the spirit that causes youthful lusts. This is the spirit that causes us to serve mammon and not God.
Ecclesiastes 1:14 I have seen all the works that are done under the sun; and, behold, all is vanity and vexation of spirit.
Ecclesiastes 2: 11 Then I looked on all the works that my hands had wrought, and on the labour that I had laboured to do: and, behold, all was vanity and vexation of spirit, and there was no profit under the sun.
There is no profit, VANITY is empty!
Ecclesiasted 6: 9 Better is the sight of the eyes than the wandering of the desire: this is also vanity and vexation of spirit.
Above scripture confirms that vanity comes from our NATURE, the senses.
Psalms 24: 4 He that hath clean hands, and a pure heart; who hath not lifted up his soul unto vanity, nor sworn deceitfully.
2 Peter 2: 18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
Jeremiah 13:25 This is thy lot, the portion of thy measures from me, saith the LORD; because thou hast forgotten me, and trusted in falsehood. 26 Therefore will I discover thy skirts upon thy face, that thy shame may appear. 27 I have seen thine adulteries, and thy neighings, the lewdness of thy whoredom, and thine abominations on the hills in the fields. Woe unto thee, O Jerusalem! wilt thou not be made clean? when shall it once be?
James 3: 15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
Devilish/demonic/UNCLEAN.
The words of Paul, 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
There is NO wicked rebellious supernatural spirit entity that is to be cast down that brings darkness. There is man and his own vein imagination that produces unclean spirits, such as the spirit of falsehood, and it is these men along with their spirits that will be cast down, as they produce NO PROFIT.
Hi Jodi,
1Sam 16.14f
Now the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the Lord terrorised him.
No question that God is in charge of all things.
Hi Jodi,
Indeed the sons of God must work with the Spirit to reclaim their minds and imaginations and bring every thought into submission to the Lord. We must be transformed by a renewal of our minds. But the creation of God was very good and did not include the loss of this vital territory. Walk in the Spirit and you will not walk in the darkness that covers the earth.
Yes scripture uses demon and unclean spirit interchangeably this is a fact, can you comprehend it Nick?
27 And when He came out onto the land, He was met by a man from the city who was possessed with demons; and who had not put on any clothing for a long time, and was not living in a house, but in the tombs…. 29 For He had commanded the unclean spirit to come out of the man.
Luke 11: 14 And he was casting out a devil, and it was dumb. And it came to pass, when the devil was gone out, the dumb spake; and the people wondered.
Exodus 4:11 And the LORD said unto him, Who hath made man’s mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD?
Dumb here also translated as a mute.
Deuteronomy 30:19 I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live;
Deuteronomy 28:22 The LORD shall smite thee with a consumption, and with a fever, and with an inflammation, and with an extreme burning, and with the sword, and with blasting, and with mildew; and they shall pursue thee until thou perish….28 The LORD shall smite thee with madness, and blindness, and astonishment of heart:
Isaiah 35:4 Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you. 5 Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped. 6 Then shall the lame man leap as an hart, and the tongue of the dumb sing: for in the wilderness shall waters break out, and streams in the desert.
Micah 7:16 The nations shall see and be confounded at all their might: they shall lay their hand upon their mouth, their ears shall be deaf. 17 They shall lick the dust like a serpent, they shall move out of their holes like worms of the earth: they shall be afraid of the LORD our God, and shall fear because of thee. 18 Who is a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retaineth not his anger for ever, because he delighteth in mercy. 19 He will turn again, he will have compassion upon us; he will subdue our iniquities; and thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea.
A demon or devil IS an UNCLEAN SPIRIT, the demon is said to be a MUTE SPIRIT. God is said to cast mute spirits, and He likewise said he would have mercy and heal.
Isaiah 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: 6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else. 7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Is it difficult Nick for you to understand plain scripture, that not only is demon or devil used interchangeably with unclean spirit, that a demon is directly called a dumb spirit, and that it is God who casts dumb spirits? Why is it difficult for you to comprehend the fact that God says there is NONE ELSE who creates such darkness, and that your belief makes you a whore, under God’s own WORDS?
God is “in charge” of all things, indeed!
The FACT is that the scripture says that the the evil spirit COMES FROM GOD. This is not saying that God has “allowed” a rebellious spirit to bring an evil spirit onto Saul, it CLEARLY states that it comes FROM THE LORD. This is an argument I have heard before, first hand from JW ladies, where our final meeting ended with me telling them there was nothing further to discuss if they could not admit the simple truth that the plagues of Deuteronmy 28 actually came by the HAND of God, as they tried to argue that it wasn’t from God, but God “allowed” the fallen angel Satan to bring the cursing. Blasphemous!
and you want to talk about “MY” SPECIAL GLASSES? I stick to the WORD I do not ADD what is not there to try and make it fit my belief. I COMBINE scripture to produce an understanding.
Hi Jodi,
Scripture is very malleable and can be made to support many doctrines of demons.
It is not advised to patch verses together to make your doctrine,
Rather find it written and witnessing verses.
2cor 13.1
The creation of God was good, but it was NOT perfect. If it was perfect He wouldn’t have needed to place a commandment on Adam and Eve, now would He? But He did, and it is said that sin entered by man!
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
If God’s creation was perfect would He have had the plan of the Messiah? Was God’s creation GOOD because Jesus was in His plan from the beginning to make it perfect?
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.Adam and Eve SINNED for breaking God’s commandment and they were in the FLESH and they had 1 commandment given to keep. Eating of the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil represented eating the fruit of their OWN way. God new from the beginning that man would WALK after his flesh and after the imagination of his own mind, that to build righteousness in man would be a longsuffering process.
Proverbs 1:31 Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, and be filled with their OWN devices.
They ate their own way and it profited them unto death.
Dude, the serpent WALKS AFTER the FLESH!
The man in his sensual/fleshly desires thought the tree looked attractive and would taste good, and in his own imagination he thought the tree would magically make him wise. God makes man wise, they turned the fruit into a false god, thinking it would make them like a god.
The serpent’s seed is anyone who walks after the flesh and stays born in the flesh, just as a SERPENT DOES. The woman’s seed is anyone born of the promise and becomes born of the Spirit.
The serpent seed, the carnal mind that is vein, profiting nothing but death like a snake, is at enmity against the Spirit.
Galatians 4:23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
God indeed created them in ignorance, He indeed gave them desires, He indeed gave them their OWN imagination, and He is longsuffering towards us that we will turn from our OWN dysfunctional devices and trust and be led by His Spirit, so that we can live fulfilling our senses in a clean and holy manner, that we can use our imaginations in a way that is pleasing and honors Him. If our minds can be perfected by faith in Christ, then God will change our bodies to immortality, making us perfected in both mind and body.
Hi Jodi,
The seed of the serpent are the sons of the devil.
Your building is tottering because the foundations are of man.
Nick yes I have reviewed through many doctrines and they all use scripture in an attempt to prove.
They take a scripture to prove a point, or maybe a handful, and when they are in error it is because they denied the context, they denied the original meaning to a word, they denied other scriptures that clearly contradict their faulty interpretation.
That’s all you have in your response?
Demons are the same as unclean spirits
Demon is called a dumb spirit
God says that He makes the dumb, and He casts plagues of unclean spirits
God says that there is NO OTHER, that HE brings darkness, plagues, calamity
God alone you shall fear as creating any other being to have His powers is to be an idolater.
Saying the dumb spirit came from a supernatural rebellious entity is to be an idolater.
Hi Jodi,
Doctrines of demons are popular because they elevate the importance of man and his imaginations.
Find it written and find supporting verses.
Calling people names?
Hi Jodi,
Your narrow view excludes the way God allows spirits to entice and test men.
You love to blame God for the mischief caused by Satan.
Yes sin in the flesh defends itself.
Doctrines of demons?
Hi Jodi,
Rom 7.17 f
So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. For the very good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it , but sin which dwells in me…
Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death?
Rom 6.7
; for he who has died is freed from sin.
Nick if you cannot comprehend what OWN IMAGINATION, OWN HEART, or FROM WITHIN means, there is no need to further discuss anything, we will just go in more circles.
Likewise if you cannot comprehend why God said that He alone shall man fear and that there are NONE besides Him, that it is He that DOES these “things,” we will just go in circles.
The OT many authors, many books does not contain your doctrine. The word saw-tawn is found 23 times in scripture. With 11 of those times representing an adversary to Job, who cursed Job in unity with God and brought him to be more righteous. Mind you that Job said his affliction came from God. The first 8 times the word is used is in reference to either an Angel of God, or God bringing a human adversary to another human, or human adversaries against humans. Then we see before Job an adversary that causes David to number his men. Hardly a verse to create a whole doctrine on of REBELLIOUS supernatural entities out to corrupt all of mankind. Then we have a man accusing another man in Psalms and last but not least we have an accuser against the high priest Joshua.
Numbers 2
1 Samuel 1
2 Samuel 1
1 Kings 4
1 Chronicles 1
Job 11
Psalms 1
Zechariah 2In the entirety of the OT many authors, many books, and many many years we have many many scriptures talking about man’s OWN HEART, his OWN IMAGINATION, his OWN devices. We have cities and men said to be in heaven and being cast down from heaven. We do not have rebellious spirits being cast down from heaven. We have many scriptures talking about men oppressing men. We have so many scriptures talking about sin, and not ONE of them mention some rebellious supernatural entity. We have so many scriptures talking about clean and unclean, and man making himself unclean, not one mention to prove your doctrine. We have so many scriptures that talk about man breaking God’s laws, nothing about supernatural rebellious forces influencing them. We have many scriptures that speak of men being blind, being fools, not one where they are corrupted by supernatural rebellious entities. We see warnings for Israel to stay away from pagans, no warning about fleeing the ways or enticement of supernatural rebellious entities. We have David pleading to God on many occasions, NOTHING about keeping him from supernatural rebellious entities, but his OWN sin, and other men. We have God casting plagues of fever, leprosy, blindness, dumbness, madness, bringing pestilence, famine… NOT ONE scripture of supernatural rebellious entities casting plagues.
Your doctrine is unheard of in the entirety of the OT!! You disregard all that it teaches and don’t use it to understand the NT, you follow the doctrine of the pagan converts who translated words to fit their doctrine that was based on philosophies of men, and not the WORD given to us from the OT.
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