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In order for our discussions to go futher, it would be helpful to establish some things that we all should really know.
What is the Kingdom mentioned in the Bible?
From time to time, views have shifted. Some have said it's the Church, or heaven or something inside of each person. Since it's something we should be seeking first, something we pray for, and something spoken of so much in the Bible, it's an important question.
What is it?
Hi david,
The Kingdom of heaven began when the King came as God's servant[Is 42f] and brought the message of salvation by his blood, in Him. He builds his kingdom within us and among us [Lk 17.21] who have been born again into him[Jn 3.5]. He is the only door to the kingdom and no one can enter that kingdom except through that door[Jn10]. Those who enter die in baptism and are raised in new life[Rom 6.3f] by the work of the Spirit[Rom 8.11]. When he returns they will be raised or raptured to see their King [1Cor15]and reign with him for 1000 years[Rev20] till he restores order and destroys all authorities and submits that Kingdom to his Father[1Cor15].In answer to “What is the Kingdom mentioned in the Bible?”
The Simplicity of the Christian Message
The scriptures shows us where the saints will be!
Our Lord Jesus' magnificent obsession …
Hope the above helps!
Adam Pastor
My Personal SpaceQuote (Adam Pastor @ Sep. 04 2005,06:50) In answer to “What is the Kingdom mentioned in the Bible?” The Simplicity of the Christian Message
The scriptures shows us where the saints will be!
Our Lord Jesus' magnificent obsession …
Hope the above helps!
Adam Pastor
My Personal Space
Hi adam pastor,
1Cor 8.5f
“For even if there are so called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, yet FOR US there is but one God, the Father,from whom are all things and WE exist for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things and WE exist through him”So you're saying Nick, that the kingdom is “within us” and “among us.”
It's also something we “enter.”That last thing you said, Jesus submitting the Kingdom to his Father; what exactly is it he is submitting?
Quote (david @ Sep. 05 2005,07:13) So you're saying Nick, that the kingdom is “within us” and “among us.”
It's also something we “enter.”That last thing you said, Jesus submitting the Kingdom to his Father; what exactly is it he is submitting?
hi d,
1Cor 15.28
” When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to him, so that God may be all in all”Quote (david @ Sep. 05 2005,07:13) So you're saying Nick, that the kingdom is “within us” and “among us.”
It's also something we “enter.”That last thing you said, Jesus submitting the Kingdom to his Father; what exactly is it he is submitting?
Hi d,
Lk 17.20f
“…'The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed; nor will they say 'Look, here it is'
or
'There it is'
for behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst”The coming King, the Son of God, was already among them. The Son was to be born into them [Gal 3.19] by the Spirit of Christ after Christ returned to heaven and the Spirit was sent. We are told that the Spirit must control our lives[Gal 5.25].
That is the kingdom within us.
That submission and obedience makes us servants of God. We serve the King. The kingdom has begun in men from Pentecost till now and the servants of God are ready to reign with him.
hmmm. Much of what you say makes this “kingdom” seem like a government run by a king, Jesus.
HANDS OVER THE KINGDOM
“Next, the end, when he hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power. For he must rule as king until God has put all enemies under his feet. As the last enemy, death is to be brought to nothing. But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone.” (1 Corinthians 15:24-26, 28)
Or as The Amplified Bible renders the latter part of verse 28: “So that God may be all in all—that is, be everything to everyone, supreme, the indwelling and controlling factor of life.”TO THE PHARSEES–“THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS IN YOUR MIDST”
Pharisees asked Jesus about the arrival of the Kingdom. They believe that it will come with great pomp and ceremony, but Jesus says:
“The kingdom of God is not coming with striking observableness, neither will people be saying, ‘See here!’ or, ‘There!’ For, look! the kingdom of God is in your midst.”Jesus’ words “in your midst” have at times been translated “within you.” So some have thought that Jesus meant that the Kingdom of God reigns in the hearts of God’s servants. But, obviously, the Kingdom of God is not within the hearts of these unbelieving Pharisees to whom Jesus is speaking. Yet, it is in their midst, since the designated King of God’s Kingdom, Jesus Christ, is right among them.
As you said Nick, the king was already “among them,” so in their midst. But was the kingdom in the hearts of the Pharasees, who Jesus called serpants and offspring of vipers? Doesn't make sence. It makes more sence that the kingdom was in their midst, since the king was “among them,” as you said.In Gal 3:19, and 5:25, no mention is made of any kingdom. I mean, you could try to apply these to God's Kingdom if that's what Jesus meant when he was talking to the pharasees, but it doesn't seem that's what Jesus meant. The Kingdom of God was not within the Pharisees, but in their midst.
Nick, is it possible from what you've read that the heavenly Kingdom is a heavenly government run by a king, Jesus, with other holy ones, who will judge and rule as priests for a thousand years while the people on the earth reaches perfection and sin is removed. And then, when that's accomplished, Jesus will hand the kingdom over to his father. By that time, the earth will have been transformed into a paradise. And that last day, the day of rest will come to an end and all will be good.
It is often called the Kingdom of God, but it is also called Christ's kingdom since it was him by his father.
What's your thought on this verse and the verses that preceed it?
DANIEL 2:44
““And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite;”
In this verse, it seems the kingdom is a governement that will remove all earthly and ineffective human governemnts.Notice the “holy ones,” often translated, “saints,” and notice their role in this kingdom:
DANIEL 4:17
“By the decree of watchers the thing is, and [by] the saying of holy ones the request is, to the intent that people living may know that the Most High is Ruler in the kingdom of mankind and that to the one whom he wants to, he gives it and he sets up over it even the lowliest one of mankind.””Jesus, who was made the lowliest one of mankind receives the kingdom from the Most High, Jehovah.
Holy ones from among humankind will rule with Christ in this kingdom. (Revelation 14:1-4; 20:6) So the Bible also refers to it as “their kingdom.”—Daniel 7:27.DANIEL 7:18
“But the holy ones of the Supreme One will receive the kingdom, and they will take possession of the kingdom for time indefinite, even for time indefinite upon times indefinite.’”DANIEL 7:21-22
““I kept on beholding when that very horn made war upon the holy ones, and it was prevailing against them, until the Ancient of Days came and judgment itself was given in favor of the holy ones of the Supreme One, and the definite time arrived that the holy ones took possession of the kingdom itself.”DANIEL 7:27
““‘And the kingdom and the rulership and the grandeur of the kingdoms under all the heavens were given to the people who are the holy ones of the Supreme One. Their kingdom is an indefinitely lasting kingdom, and all the rulerships will serve and obey even them.’”Hi david,
I agree with much of what you say here.But the book of Galatians, as with all the letters of the apostles, were written only to the saints and not the Pharisees or those of the world. See the start of all the letters.
Scripture does not say Jesus was the lowliest of men.RIGHT NOW, I'M JUST LOOKING AT SOME SCRIPTURES THAT REFER TO THE HOLY ONES, AND THEIR ROLE.
1 CORINTHIANS 6:2
“Or do YOU not know that the holy ones will judge the world?”EPHESIANS 1:18
“the eyes of YOUR heart having been enlightened, that YOU may know what is the hope to which he called YOU, what the glorious riches are which he holds as an inheritance for the holy ones,”
COLOSSIANS 1:12
“thanking the Father who rendered YOU suitable for YOUR participation in the inheritance of the holy ones in the light.”
SO THE HOLY ONES HAVE AN INHERITANCE.EPHESIANS 2:19
“Certainly, therefore, YOU are no longer strangers and alien residents, but YOU are fellow citizens of the holy ones and are members of the household of God,” (compare Phil 3:20)
PHILIPPIANS 3:20
“As for us, our citizenship exists in the heavens, from which place also we are eagerly waiting for a savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,COLOSSIANS 1:3-4 (This scripture will come up later. It doesn't really belong here.)
“We thank God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ always when we pray for YOU, since we heard of YOUR faith in connection with Christ Jesus and the love YOU have for all the holy ones”Fist off, it's irritating that the first post on the page doesn't appear until the second one is down.
Also,
GALATIANS 3:19
“Why, then, the Law? It was added to make transgressions manifest, until the seed should arrive to whom the promise had been made; and it was transmitted through angels by the hand of a mediator.”GALATIANS 5:25
“If we are living by spirit, let us go on walking orderly also by spirit.”These are great scriptures, but I thought we were discussing what the kingdom of God is. Most everything can be related to the Kingdom, but I don't see why you specifically are mentioning these scriptures.
thirdly, I didn't say Galatians was written to the pharisees. why would you say that. I mentioned the pharisees because Jesus was talking to them when he said “the kingdom of God is in your midst [often translated “within you”].” He wasn't saying the Kingdom of God was within the Pharisees. He was saying that their King was in their midst. The King represents the Kingdom.
“That people living may know that the Most High is Ruler in the kingdom of mankind and that to the one whom he wants to, he gives it and he sets up over it even the lowliest one of mankind.”—Daniel 4:17.
The scriptures indicate that Jesus would be ruling over this kingdom. Here, we're told that the one set up over it would be “the lowliest one of mankind.”
Only one person came to be qualified in all respects to be called “the lowliest one of mankind.” The only-begotten Son of God proved himself to be such by willingly leaving his heavenly glory to be born as a human, as Jesus, who suffered the most humiliating and cruel death at Satan’s hand.
PHILIPPIANS 2:3
“doing nothing out of contentiousness or out of egotism, but with lowliness of mind considering that the others are superior to YOU,”
PHILIPPIANS 2:5-11
“Keep this mental attitude in YOU that was also in Christ Jesus, who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God. No, but he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and came to be in the likeness of men. More than that, when he found himself in fashion as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient as far as death, yes, death on a torture stake. For this very reason also God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every [other] name, so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground, and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.”
ZECHARIAH 9:9
““Be very joyful, O daughter of Zion. Shout in triumph, O daughter of Jerusalem. Look! Your king himself comes to you. He is righteous, yes, saved; humble, and riding upon an ass, even upon a full-grown animal the son of a she-ass.”
MATTHEW 11:29
“Take my yoke upon YOU and learn from me, for I am mild-tempered and lowly in heart, and YOU will find refreshment for YOUR souls.”right, scripture doesn't say specifically that he was the lowliest of mankind, but we are told that he was humble, mild-tempered, lowly in heart. He, a king, the Son of God, arrived on an ass. He emptied himself, humbled himself.
He being perfect, sinless, how could anyone be more humble?
We are to imitate him.
It seems this scripture refers to Christ, but nowhere are we specifically told that, no.david.
Quote (david @ Sep. 06 2005,01:47) RIGHT NOW, I'M JUST LOOKING AT SOME SCRIPTURES THAT REFER TO THE HOLY ONES, AND THEIR ROLE. 1 CORINTHIANS 6:2
“Or do YOU not know that the holy ones will judge the world?”EPHESIANS 1:18
“the eyes of YOUR heart having been enlightened, that YOU may know what is the hope to which he called YOU, what the glorious riches are which he holds as an inheritance for the holy ones,”
COLOSSIANS 1:12
“thanking the Father who rendered YOU suitable for YOUR participation in the inheritance of the holy ones in the light.”
SO THE HOLY ONES HAVE AN INHERITANCE.EPHESIANS 2:19
“Certainly, therefore, YOU are no longer strangers and alien residents, but YOU are fellow citizens of the holy ones and are members of the household of God,” (compare Phil 3:20)
PHILIPPIANS 3:20
“As for us, our citizenship exists in the heavens, from which place also we are eagerly waiting for a savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,COLOSSIANS 1:3-4 (This scripture will come up later. It doesn't really belong here.)
“We thank God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ always when we pray for YOU, since we heard of YOUR faith in connection with Christ Jesus and the love YOU have for all the holy ones”
Hi david,
Who are “the holy ones”?
Is anyone sinless?
Can we make ourselves holy?Quote (david @ Sep. 06 2005,02:04) “That people living may know that the Most High is Ruler in the kingdom of mankind and that to the one whom he wants to, he gives it and he sets up over it even the lowliest one of mankind.”—Daniel 4:17. The scriptures indicate that Jesus would be ruling over this kingdom. Here, we're told that the one set up over it would be “the lowliest one of mankind.”
Only one person came to be qualified in all respects to be called “the lowliest one of mankind.” The only-begotten Son of God proved himself to be such by willingly leaving his heavenly glory to be born as a human, as Jesus, who suffered the most humiliating and cruel death at Satan’s hand.
PHILIPPIANS 2:3
“doing nothing out of contentiousness or out of egotism, but with lowliness of mind considering that the others are superior to YOU,”
PHILIPPIANS 2:5-11
“Keep this mental attitude in YOU that was also in Christ Jesus, who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God. No, but he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and came to be in the likeness of men. More than that, when he found himself in fashion as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient as far as death, yes, death on a torture stake. For this very reason also God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every [other] name, so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground, and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.”
ZECHARIAH 9:9
““Be very joyful, O daughter of Zion. Shout in triumph, O daughter of Jerusalem. Look! Your king himself comes to you. He is righteous, yes, saved; humble, and riding upon an ass, even upon a full-grown animal the son of a she-ass.”
MATTHEW 11:29
“Take my yoke upon YOU and learn from me, for I am mild-tempered and lowly in heart, and YOU will find refreshment for YOUR souls.”
Yes david,
But the holy ones will rule with Jesus. That will include the poor and those taken from the highways and byways.Quote (david @ Sep. 06 2005,01:47) RIGHT NOW, I'M JUST LOOKING AT SOME SCRIPTURES THAT REFER TO THE HOLY ONES, AND THEIR ROLE. 1 CORINTHIANS 6:2
“Or do YOU not know that the holy ones will judge the world?”EPHESIANS 1:18
“the eyes of YOUR heart having been enlightened, that YOU may know what is the hope to which he called YOU, what the glorious riches are which he holds as an inheritance for the holy ones,”
COLOSSIANS 1:12
“thanking the Father who rendered YOU suitable for YOUR participation in the inheritance of the holy ones in the light.”
SO THE HOLY ONES HAVE AN INHERITANCE.EPHESIANS 2:19
“Certainly, therefore, YOU are no longer strangers and alien residents, but YOU are fellow citizens of the holy ones and are members of the household of God,” (compare Phil 3:20)
PHILIPPIANS 3:20
“As for us, our citizenship exists in the heavens, from which place also we are eagerly waiting for a savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,COLOSSIANS 1:3-4 (This scripture will come up later. It doesn't really belong here.)
“We thank God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ always when we pray for YOU, since we heard of YOUR faith in connection with Christ Jesus and the love YOU have for all the holy ones”
Hi david,
All these were written to the holy ones who have their names written in the book of the living. All who can must join their throng before the door closes.Hi david,
Sorry should be Gal 4.19
” My children, with whom I am again in labor until Christ is formed in you”
Coll 1.27
” ..Christ in you, the hope of glory”
Eph 3.17
” so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith..”
Gal 2.20
“… it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me.”Right, so the kingdom of God isn't in people, but as All 4 scriptures you just quoted, “Christ” is.
Christ is Different than “kingdom”
Jesus is not the kingdom that we pray for.If memory serves me, we are talking about the kingdom of God, not Jesus.
Yes, those scriptures were written for the holy ones, the ones that would receive the kingdom. That's why I mentioned them. Remember, we're talking about the kingdom.
No Nick, no one is sinless. I know what you're thinking, “holy ones,”…”saints,” and saints are often thought of as sinless, but that's not what the Bible says, and neither of us believe it.
We are all to try to be holy (which basically means clean) because Jehovah is holy.
YES, EXACTLY, THE HOLY ONES WILL RULE WITH JESUS. and yes, they were taken from the highways and biways.
So, we have holy ones ruling with Jesus and these make up the kingdom.
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