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Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 07 2012,08:20) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 07 2012,19:35) T, Jehovah is not created and so has no bloodline.
Jesus is of David's bloodline and David is not a descendant of David or Jesse.
John 1:12-13
Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)12 But to as many as did receive him, to those who put their trust in his person and power, he gave the right to become children of God, 13 not because of bloodline, physical impulse or human intention, but because of God.
Jesus was indeed conceived miraculously and so not of a physical impulse or human intention but he is of the bloodline of David.
Jesus was born of the Spirit of the Son that compelled him to cry Abba, Father.
Mark 14:36
Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)36 “Abba!” (that is, “Dear Father!”) “All things are possible for you. Take this cup away from me! Still, not what I want, but what you want.”
KerwinQuote T, Jehovah is not created and so has no bloodline.
Jesus is of David's bloodline and David is not a descendant of David or Jesse.
T,I did misspeak as what I intended to write is:
Jehovah is not created and so has no bloodline.
Jesus is of David's bloodline and David nor Jesse are a descendant of Jesus.
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 07 2012,20:07) Jesus is of David's bloodline and David nor Jesse are a descendant of Jesus.
Kerwin……….Amen Amen, This is absolutely right brother. But all those who try desperately to Separate Jesus identity with humanity will never accept it. Jesus is the root and offspring of King David and Jesse, Just as he said he was. No need to twist scriptures to mean something else as many false Trinitarians who ARE Preexistences teachers do here. IMOpeace and love to you and yours Kerwin………………………….gene
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 08 2012,03:07) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 07 2012,08:20) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 07 2012,19:35) T, Jehovah is not created and so has no bloodline.
Jesus is of David's bloodline and David is not a descendant of David or Jesse.
John 1:12-13
Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)12 But to as many as did receive him, to those who put their trust in his person and power, he gave the right to become children of God, 13 not because of bloodline, physical impulse or human intention, but because of God.
Jesus was indeed conceived miraculously and so not of a physical impulse or human intention but he is of the bloodline of David.
Jesus was born of the Spirit of the Son that compelled him to cry Abba, Father.
Mark 14:36
Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)36 “Abba!” (that is, “Dear Father!”) “All things are possible for you. Take this cup away from me! Still, not what I want, but what you want.”
KerwinQuote T, Jehovah is not created and so has no bloodline.
Jesus is of David's bloodline and David is not a descendant of David or Jesse.
T,I did misspeak as what I intended to write is:
Jehovah is not created and so has no bloodline.
Jesus is of David's bloodline and David nor Jesse are a descendant of Jesus.
Kerwinbut you are mistaken ;Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.so as you can see Christ his the ROOT of Jesse after all.
Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 06 2012,20:28) All things were created by God alone – because of Jesus' crucifixion.
Sorry Ed, but those words don't make a lick of sense to me. It sounds as if you're saying Jesus WAS crucified, and BECAUSE OF his crucifixion, God SUBSEQUENTLY created all things.Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 06 2012,20:28) Jesus was (according to you) an angel in his preexistant state,
But there are many verses of Scripture that discount this idea.
Jesus was a spirit son of God when God created him as the “first of His works”. In English, we tend to call spiritual messengers of God “angels”………… but the Hebrew and Greek words we translate as “angels” both just mean “messenger”.So you have to ask yourself:
1. Was Jesus ever a human messenger of his God?
2. Was Jesus ever a spirit messenger of his God?The answer to both is “YES”. Ed, whenever you read those verses that you think say Jesus is not an “angel”, read them with the word “messenger” instead of the English word “angel”. It may help you to see the truth of the matter.
But back to Hebrews 1:2………………
Ed, Paul says God has in these last days spoken to us through His Son Jesus, right? Now, did God actually speak to them through his LITERAL Son, Jesus? Of course He did.
Why then shouldn't we also take the teaching that God created the ages through his Son to mean that God created the ages through His LITERAL Son, Jesus?
Why would anyone understand it differently than the way it is written – if not for some personal, biased reason?
Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 07 2012,12:33) Kerwin but you are mistaken ;Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.so as you can see Christ his the ROOT of Jesse after all.
That's correct, Pierre.And like I just said to Ed, why would anyone understand Col 1:15-16 any differently than the way it is written – if not for some personal, biased reason?
Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 08 2012,00:33) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 08 2012,03:07) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 07 2012,08:20) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 07 2012,19:35) T, Jehovah is not created and so has no bloodline.
Jesus is of David's bloodline and David is not a descendant of David or Jesse.
John 1:12-13
Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)12 But to as many as did receive him, to those who put their trust in his person and power, he gave the right to become children of God, 13 not because of bloodline, physical impulse or human intention, but because of God.
Jesus was indeed conceived miraculously and so not of a physical impulse or human intention but he is of the bloodline of David.
Jesus was born of the Spirit of the Son that compelled him to cry Abba, Father.
Mark 14:36
Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)36 “Abba!” (that is, “Dear Father!”) “All things are possible for you. Take this cup away from me! Still, not what I want, but what you want.”
KerwinQuote T, Jehovah is not created and so has no bloodline.
Jesus is of David's bloodline and David is not a descendant of David or Jesse.
T,I did misspeak as what I intended to write is:
Jehovah is not created and so has no bloodline.
Jesus is of David's bloodline and David nor Jesse are a descendant of Jesus.
Kerwinbut you are mistaken ;Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.so as you can see Christ his the ROOT of Jesse after all.
T,Your claim is not that Jesse and David are decedents of Jesus but that they were created through Jesus. That idea of yours introduces a time paradox to your teaching; but that confusion does not seem to bother your soul as much as excepting that Jesus is a human with a strong and perfect faith.
As for me Jesus is the Heir of all creation for through faith in his name all things are created anew, the ages established; and through his Spirit all things were created.
Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 07 2012,08:31) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 07 2012,09:05)
Kerwin………You are right apsolutly right. The man Jesus is the one God was speaking of , he is the heir of his father king David's throne. Jesus plainly said he was the root and offspring of king David. No matter how hard these deceived separatist Try to separate Jesus' human identity with his human Father and us they Can't , without destroying the integrity of our scriptures. IMOPeace and love to you and yours……………………….gene
Hi Gene,Jesus didn't have a human father.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed J.I think Gene was speaking of David as father of Jesus' bloodline.
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 08 2012,14:40) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 08 2012,00:33) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 08 2012,03:07) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 07 2012,08:20) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 07 2012,19:35) T, Jehovah is not created and so has no bloodline.
Jesus is of David's bloodline and David is not a descendant of David or Jesse.
John 1:12-13
Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)12 But to as many as did receive him, to those who put their trust in his person and power, he gave the right to become children of God, 13 not because of bloodline, physical impulse or human intention, but because of God.
Jesus was indeed conceived miraculously and so not of a physical impulse or human intention but he is of the bloodline of David.
Jesus was born of the Spirit of the Son that compelled him to cry Abba, Father.
Mark 14:36
Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)36 “Abba!” (that is, “Dear Father!”) “All things are possible for you. Take this cup away from me! Still, not what I want, but what you want.”
KerwinQuote T, Jehovah is not created and so has no bloodline.
Jesus is of David's bloodline and David is not a descendant of David or Jesse.
T,I did misspeak as what I intended to write is:
Jehovah is not created and so has no bloodline.
Jesus is of David's bloodline and David nor Jesse are a descendant of Jesus.
Kerwinbut you are mistaken ;Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.so as you can see Christ his the ROOT of Jesse after all.
T,Your claim is not that Jesse and David are decedents of Jesus but that they were created through Jesus. That idea of yours introduces a time paradox to your teaching; but that confusion does not seem to bother your soul as much as excepting that Jesus is a human with a strong and perfect faith.
and through his SpiritAs for me Jesus is the Heir of all creation for through faith in his name all things are created anew, the ages established; all things were created.
Kerwinhow many scriptures do you have to deny to put forward your lie???
kerwin
Quote T, Your claim is not that Jesse and David are decedents of Jesus but that they were created through Jesus. That idea of yours introduces a time paradox to your teaching; but that confusion does not seem to bother your soul as much as excepting that Jesus is a human with a strong and perfect faith.
As for me Jesus is the Heir of all creation for through faith in his name all things are created anew, the ages established; and through his Spirit all things were created.
Quote Your claim is not that Jesse and David are decedents of Jesus first I did not claim this ; scriptures says that Christ his the root of Jesse who his the father of David,and so scriptures are true in saying that Christ comes before Jesse because he existed before Jesse,
the fact that you do not believe in the pre existence of Christ has the son of God and as God first creation does not make untrue,scriptures shows that he did pre existed his coming as a human,
also Jesus Christ his a real person and being ,his soul is true and righteous and comes from the father ,in heaven he his a spirit being just like all who lives there,
you are confusing the idea and the person of Christ
T,
I believe you missed the “not” in my statement that “Your claim is not that Jesse and David are decedents of Jesus…”.
You claim that Jesus is the root(means through whom specified individuals are created) of Jesse and David and without him they would not have been created.
You believe Mary is a surrogate mother for Jesus, an angel, who manifested the body of a conceptus, entered her womb, and was born of her.
This does take care of the time paradox by denying Jesus is the offspring of David; but only introduce another contradiction.
Contradictory you believe Jesus is a offspring of David.
I am claiming that Jesus is a human being, the chief descendant of both David and Adam, that has been given the Spirit of the Son; by and through which all things were made. In addition Jesus is the chief inheritor of all things in heaven and on earth and the way by which they are all perfected.
David faith is revealed to be his root as he believes God's promise of the Christ.
There are no contradictions in what I believe.
kerwin
Quote an angel, who manifested the body of a conceptus, entered her womb, and was born of her. no kerwin that is not what I said or beleive ,why do you think that God holy spirit (Gods power) as been part of making Christ
Quote I am claiming that Jesus is a human being, the chief descendant of both David and Adam, that has been given the Spirit of the Son; by and through which all things were made. In addition Jesus is the chief inheritor of all things in heaven and on earth and the way by which they are all perfected. what you are saying is that all thing were created through an idea ,the idea to be Christ
this is folly NO SCRIPTURES ARE SAYING THIS .you say Christ his a normal man but how could he be his father his God ,and God did not make a new creation ,one more thing NO MAN BORN OF MAN CAN SAVE MEN FROM HIS SINS,
Quote This does take care of the time paradox by denying Jesus is the offspring of David; but only introduce another contradiction there is no contradiction ,because through Mary and Joseph his step father Christ is the offspring of David,read the scriptures,
Quote David faith is revealed to be his root as he believes God's promise of the Christ not his faith but his heart ,but David was a sinner Christ was not
To All………….Saying Jesus is the root from which Jesse and David came is a total LIE and corruption of scriptures. Jesus is (the Root), “OF” or (FROM) Jesse and King David, He is also the Offspring of them both. Any half intelligent person can understand that. Trinitarians and preexistences have to twist up that understanding in order to deny Jesus' complete Humanity.
They can not believe GOD took a Purely Human Being and Perfected Him, and raised him from the grave, which shows God's work in Humanity, they by this deny God's Glory for his work in Christ Jesus. These Trinitarians and Preexistences are totally corrupted in their false teachings of the word of God, and they never stop twisting up and corrupting his word. They are the Blind leading the Blind and are both in a ditch grouping at the walls falsehood.
peace and love to you all…………………………………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 09 2012,07:50) To All………….Saying Jesus is the root from which Jesse and David came is a total LIE and corruption of scriptures. Jesus is (the Root), “OF” or (FROM) Jesse and King David, He is also the Offspring of them both. Any half intelligent person can understand that. Trinitarians and preexistences have to twist up that understanding in order to deny Jesus' complete Humanity. They can not believe GOD took a Purely Human Being and Perfected Him, and raised him from the grave, which shows God's work in Humanity, they by this deny God's Glory for his work in Christ Jesus. These Trinitarians and Preexistences are totally corrupted in their false teachings of the word of God, and they never stop twisting up and corrupting his word. They are the Blind leading the Blind and are both in a ditch grouping at the walls falsehood.
peace and love to you all…………………………………………..gene
gplease explain how can a man born of man be pure IN THE EYES OF GOD???
please do not be a religeous liar and say IT IS A MYSTERY
Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 08 2012,08:37) kerwin Quote an angel, who manifested the body of a conceptus, entered her womb, and was born of her. no kerwin that is not what I said or believe ,why do you think that God holy spirit (Gods power) as been part of making Christ
Quote I am claiming that Jesus is a human being, the chief descendant of both David and Adam, that has been given the Spirit of the Son; by and through which all things were made. In addition Jesus is the chief inheritor of all things in heaven and on earth and the way by which they are all perfected. what you are saying is that all thing were created through an idea ,the idea to be Christ
this is folly NO SCRIPTURES ARE SAYING THIS .you say Christ his a normal man but how could he be his father his God ,and God did not make a new creation ,one more thing NO MAN BORN OF MAN CAN SAVE MEN FROM HIS SINS,
Quote This does take care of the time paradox by denying Jesus is the offspring of David; but only introduce another contradiction there is no contradiction ,because through Mary and Joseph his step father Christ is the offspring of David,read the scriptures,
Quote David faith is revealed to be his root as he believes God's promise of the Christ not his faith but his heart ,but David was a sinner Christ was not
T,Please correct my misunderstandings about your beliefs.
I may have used words that are rarely used, therefore hard to understand. If so then please let me know.
I believe one aspect of God's Spirit is Jehovah's creative force; which is why it moved upon the face of the waters in Genesis 1:2.
Therefore Jesus was conceived in Mary by God's creative force.
The Spirit of the Son is the Spirit of the Christ is the Spirit of the God is the the Holy Spirit as there is only one Spirit in the unity of the Spirit.
A man born of humanity is the only one who can save humanity from sin which is why it is necessary that the Christ share in his siblings humanity.
* With his death Jesus revealed this world is unjust as he earned the wages of sin though he did not sin.
* With his life Jesus revealed that a human being can overcome sin by the power of Jehovah through faith; even though tempted as is common to man.
* With his resurrection he revealed that God would not leave his holy humans in Sheol.
* With his ascension he revealed that Jehovah rewards those humans that seek him.You claim is that adoption qualifies as being born of the seed of David. It is possible though that is not the impression I received upon hearing Jehovah's promise to David.
k
Quote The Spirit of the Son is the Spirit of the Christ is the Spirit of the God is the the Holy Spirit as there is only one Spirit in the unity of the Spirit. how can anyone understand this
?k
Quote You claim is that adoption qualifies as being born of the seed of David. It is possible though that is not the impression I received upon hearing Jehovah's promise to David. yes adoption in Israel was just as right as a legitim child
k
Quote * With his life Jesus revealed that a human being can overcome sin by the power of Jehovah through faith; even though tempted as is common to man. you do not believe in scriptures right
that is why you do not beleive in them ,NO MAN BORN OF MAN CAN CLAIM THAT HE DOES NOT SIN OR HE IS WITHOUT SIN ,EVEN IF HE HIS A ;PROPHET,A SAINT,OR MOSES HIMSELF
K
Quote I believe one aspect of God's Spirit is Jehovah's creative force; which is why it moved upon the face of the waters in Genesis 1:2. DO ,I CARE OF WHAT YOU BELIEVE ? NO,;;SHOW ME IN SCRIPTURES ;;;IS GOD DIVIDED
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