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Gene,
Quote Kerwin……….When we all die we depart to the grave> Scripture says concerning Jesus that God would not let his soul see corruption in the grave Your interpretation does not fit the words about Rachel's death as her soul departed before she was buried. She named her son Benoni as her soul was departing. We would say “with her dying breath”.
Genesis 35:16-20
King James Version (KJV)
16 And they journeyed from Bethel; and there was but a little way to come to Ephrath: and Rachel travailed, and she had hard labour.
17 And it came to pass, when she was in hard labour, that the midwife said unto her, Fear not; thou shalt have this son also.
18 And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died) that she called his name Benoni: but his father called him Benjamin.
19 And Rachel died, and was buried in the way to Ephrath, which is Bethlehem.
20 And Jacob set a pillar upon her grave: that is the pillar of Rachel's grave unto this day.
“qeburah” is the Hebrew word for burial place of the body and Sheol is where the still living soul goes to await the resurrection. The soul returns to Jehovah who places it as he chooses.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 13 2012,10:22) Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 11 2012,23:39) Hi Mike, Do you not believe that the son's of God mentioned
in Genesis 6:2 were “Angels” and “Not Human”?
Ed,Didn't I already answer that question?
YES, they were ANGELS.
Is it possible for a spirit being to impregnate a human woman without first manifesting a flesh body? (Think: God and Mary)
Is there any scriptural indication that these spirit beings manifested flesh bodies before impregnating human women?
Hi Mike,“That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair;
and they took them wives of all which they chose.” (Genesis 6:2)I believe this verse (in and of itself) is a strong indicator of a non-
celibate relationship they had taking the daughters of Adam to wife. …thus indicating them having physical bodies.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Sep. 14 2012,04:15) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 13 2012,10:22) Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 11 2012,23:39) Hi Mike, Do you not believe that the son's of God mentioned
in Genesis 6:2 were “Angels” and “Not Human”?
Ed,Didn't I already answer that question?
YES, they were ANGELS.
Is it possible for a spirit being to impregnate a human woman without first manifesting a flesh body? (Think: God and Mary)
Is there any scriptural indication that these spirit beings manifested flesh bodies before impregnating human women?
Hi Mike,“That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair;
and they took them wives of all which they chose.” (Genesis 6:2)I believe this verse (in and of itself) is a strong indicator of a non-
celibate relationship they had taking the daughters of Adam to wife. …thus indicating them having physical bodies.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
edyes it was materialized angels ,for the purpose of corruption ,
but would this be the same for Mary and Jesus
was this corruption as well To All………….Why do you try to make something very simple and clear into some kind of mystery religion.
Kerwin yes her soul left when she stopped breathing, her breathe of life was gone. she no longer was a “LIVING SOU” the word soul implies a BODY with the Breath of Life working in it. She was a dead soul. and her soul went to the grave and corrupted in it. Every bit of her DNA stopped function in her body when there breath of life went out from her. She simple no longer existed as a live being. Her Spirit returned to him who gave it in the first place, God, and that was it , no more life anymore, unless God recreates or regenerates a Body with the exact DNA of Hers and puts the Spirit back into it, so she can be a living Soul again. Unless that happens she or he is eternally dead. God must not leave us in the Grave for us to live again a resurrection of our bodies is absolutely Crucial for us to live again. IMO
The whole teaching of still alive after a person is dead is a false teaching and it causes people to believe in something that simply is not true , there is no hope after death unless God regenerates us a Body and add our Exact DNA back into it with the Spirit of Life keeping it alive.
Stop an ask yourselves, why is it so important to me to believe i still am alive after i die, where does this thought come from, it is not from scripture that is for sure. It comes from this idea of a WILL that is FREE from GOD, a perspective of not accepting your demise and your “total” reliance in God the FATHER for a resurrection from the state of the dead back to life. People fool themselves with these kinds of thoughts.
Some say when they die there going home to the Lord, but no one is jumping off clefts to get there, and they all do every thing they can to keep there bodies alive that is for sure.
Every scripture showing a resurrection shows a resurrection with a BODY and those bodes are not Spirits, as Jesus plainly said and demonstrated to all.
The word DEAD does not mean still alive in any context, the only thing that exist is spirit and it returns where it came from in the first place. You no longer exist in any form. There is no hope in the grave where we all will go unless we remain to the coming of the Lord.
When Jesus said he was DEAD he really meant it and he would have still been dead if God did not raise up his body and put the spirit back into it.
And What i “QUOTED” was not my words it is written in your bibles also. But becasue of “doctrinal biases”, people chose to disregard scriptures that show thing different then they want believe. IMO
peace and love to you all……………………………………………………..gene
Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 13 2012,21:15) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 13 2012,10:22) Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 11 2012,23:39) Hi Mike, Do you not believe that the son's of God mentioned
in Genesis 6:2 were “Angels” and “Not Human”?
Ed,Didn't I already answer that question?
YES, they were ANGELS.
Is it possible for a spirit being to impregnate a human woman without first manifesting a flesh body? (Think: God and Mary)
Is there any scriptural indication that these spirit beings manifested flesh bodies before impregnating human women?
Hi Mike,“That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair;
and they took them wives of all which they chose.” (Genesis 6:2)I believe this verse (in and of itself) is a strong indicator of a non-
celibate relationship they had taking the daughters of Adam to wife. …thus indicating them having physical bodies.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
EdJ…Angels do have Physical Bodies Just as we do except those bodies can live forever. That should be obvious or the could not have copulated and had childern with human women. There bodies do contain DNA Just as OUR DO. Angels are not SPIRIT BEINGS no more then we are. Scripture say we are a little lower than the angels for the tasting of death That is the only difference between us and Angels. IMOpeace and love to you and yours………………………………………gene
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 13 2012,10:24) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 12 2012,10:26) Scripture says concerning Jesus that God would not let his soul see corruption in the grave Psa 16: 10….> For you will not leave my soul “in hell” (the grave) ; neither will you suffer your Holy One to see corruption.
Your scripture doesn't actually say what you claim it says, Gene.
Mike………. first it is not “MY” scripture, so you say the quoted scripture does not say what i say it does , so then show what it should say then, instead of making a statement with no explanation.peace and love to you and yours………………………………….gene
Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 13 2012,04:15) …thus indicating them having physical bodies.
I don't claim that they didn't have physical bodies, Ed. I claim that spirit beings don't have flesh bodies.Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 13 2012,09:37) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 13 2012,10:24) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 12 2012,10:26) Scripture says concerning Jesus that God would not let his soul see corruption in the grave Psa 16: 10….> For you will not leave my soul “in hell” (the grave) ; neither will you suffer your Holy One to see corruption.
Your scripture doesn't actually say what you claim it says, Gene.
Mike………. first it is not “MY” scripture, so you say the quoted scripture does not say what i say it does , so then show what it should say then, instead of making a statement with no explanation.peace and love to you and yours………………………………….gene
Gene,I thought it was self-explanatory. The words of your verse speak of TWO things, hence the semi-colon and the word “neither”.
1. You will not leave my soul in Sheol.
2. NEITHER will you let your Holy One see decay.
The soul is not the object of the verb phrase “see decay”. Souls are never said to decay, as far as I know. That part of the verse refers to the BODY/FLESH of Jesus. Peter explains as much in Acts 2:
27 because you will not abandon me to the realm of the dead,
you will not let your holy one see decay.30 But [David] was a prophet and knew that God had promised him on oath that he would place one of his descendants on his throne.
31 Seeing what was to come, he spoke of the resurrection of the Messiah, that he was not abandoned to the realm of the dead, nor did his body see decay.
See Gene? The SOUL of Jesus is what would not be abandoned in Hades (Sheol). And the BODY of Jesus is what would not see decay.
(Btw Gene, if I ever say “your scripture”, I mean “the scripture you posted”. I also thought this would have been self-explanatory.)
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 13 2012,09:08) Kerwin yes her soul left when she stopped breathing………..
Her soul left WHAT? Obviously, her dead body didn't get up and walk away, right? So what exactly did her soul leave?Answer: Her soul left her body.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 13 2012,09:08) The whole teaching of still alive after a person is dead is a false teaching……
I agree that the souls of the dead are not “living it up” in Sheol, Gene. But that is where those souls are “resting/sleeping with their fathers” – as it is commonly phrased in scripture. The spirit goes back to God who gave it. The body decays. And the soul goes to Sheol, where it is conscious of nothing at all until the resurrection. IMO.Mike …..A soul is the whole being not just part of it.
Think about this if all spirits is types and kind of intellects of life giving cognat thought to our minds, and each of us can have the exact kind or type of that spirit working in each of us similtaniousely all at the same time. What is the only thIn that could make us different from one another. Gods spirit can exist in all of us at the same time. That spirit is no different in one person or anorther person.
Now follow me here, I and you with that same spirit presences in both of us are yet different beings. That is the same with all spirit it can be in all and through all. So what could make us an individual person, it is not spirit of itself that can make us different, then what makes us different from another seeing the other person can have that exact same spirit in him to. So what would be the only thing that could make that difference, is it not a BODY with its own unique DND. That draws into it different kind and types of spirits. Spirit is spirit it is not a container of any kind it has no body and is not a body of its own.
Mike angels have bodies also just as we do, only those bodies can live forever, because they are spiritually sustained. There would no reason for a resurrection of a body if that were not the case.
Think about it, like I told you before it not understanding what spirit is ,that the problem where all these speculation about lif after we are dead come from. Spirit never dies it always exists it is what life ” IS”….IMO
Peace and love to you and you……………………………………gene
g
Quote …..A soul is the whole being not just part of it. witch part can men kill and wich part it is only God that can destroy
?Gene,
Quote the whole teaching of still alive after a person is dead is a false teaching and it causes people to believe in something that simply is not true , there is no hope after death unless God regenerates us a Body and add our Exact DNA back into it with the Spirit of Life keeping it alive. Jehovah is not the God of the dead and yet he was at the time of Jesus the God of Abraham and Isaac he was their God even though their bodies had corrupted in “qeburah”. Since Abraham’s body decayed he is was living naked according to Jesus’ teachings. Jesus also teaches he was living on the comforting side of Sheol/Hades.
The soul is but a shade of a person and not the whole person; but it is never the less still alive.
Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 14 2012,11:48) g Quote …..A soul is the whole being not just part of it. witch part can men kill and wich part it is only God that can destroy
?
Terricca………..Man can Kill all of you , but ONLY God can restore all of you again. God alone can regenerate you by resurrecting you and He is the only one that can do that and must in order for us to become alive again after we die. You are falsely believing your Souls are still alive after you die Pierre. Our “only” hope for life again is in GOD 'alone' and NO OTHER.The whole concept of still alive after we die is a false Pagan teaching and has not scriptural support. There is no scripture that say we are still alive after we die ,otherwise we would not be “DEAD” would we, if there is a scripture please Post it.
peace and love to you and yours………………………………….gene
To all……….Lets deal with resurrections in scriptures Please show a single resurrection that did not include a body. I can show you all of them that did have bodies when they were resurected , and even where God plainly shows and describes how he is going to resurrect People. Here is just one place it shows how.
Eze 37:4-6…….> Again he said unto me Prophesy upon these “bones” and say unto them, O you “dry bones” hear the word of the LORD (5) Thus says the Lord GOD unto these “bones”; Behold, I will cause “Breath” to enter you and you shall live. (6) And I will lay “sinews” upon you and bring up “flesh” upon you, and cover you with “skin”, and put “breath” in you and you shall live; and Shall “KNOW” that “I” am the LORD.
Now please tell me how you people totally ignore these scriptures a go on as if they do not exist in you bibles. It is Simply amazing to the extent MYSTERY RELIGION” has “infected the Mind of People Here
It appears to me some people here had rather deal in falsehood and “speculations” then in reality of Solid and “SPECIFIC” written scriptures. IMO
peace and Love to you all………………………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 14 2012,08:27) Terricca………..Man can Kill all of you………..
Matthew 10:28 King James Version
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.Gene, your claim DIRECTLY contradicts the words of Jesus. Doesn't that bother you at all?
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 14 2012,13:08) Mike …..A soul is the whole being not just part of it. …………………..gene
gene. We have come to expect from you a disagreement on nearly every major part of scripture.Your view suggests that the souls under the altar around the time of the fifth seal were complete persons with bodies. Yet they are told to rest a little longer. So are there a whole lot of beds under the altar?
Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 11 2012,18:41) Hi Mike, 1) The Angels took them to wife. Mary was not God's wife. He obviously planted the seed of Jesus
This implies Angelic intercourse. (or just the “Y” chromosome needed to be male) by other means.2) No clue. Wait a minute, Jesus resurrected body may be identical to theirs? …just a thought?
3) This seems to be the case regardless of point #2.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Edj. The Book of Enoch which has the complete record for what happened says that these angels also sinned against animals in the same way. Real intercourse or genetic engineering? Or perhaps just a fiction.That book says that they sinned against birds, animals and reptiles. Perhaps that's what dinosaurs were. As their offspring are known to be giants and the purpose of the flood was to destroy these creatures of which are now fossilized by some major catastrophe.
Mike …..you again have disreguarded the words of The Lord God. Thinking Jesus would say something different then GOD did. If what you believe Jesus meant doesn't agree with the LORD our and his God words , then who are you going to believe. It sounds like you would believe your rendition of what Jesus meant, then his and our Lord GOD. If the scriptures I “quoted” are in error or mean different as you must assume they do please show us all in what way are they.
Peace and love to you and yours brother……………………………..gene
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 15 2012,14:21) Matthew 10:28 King James Version
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.Gene, your claim DIRECTLY contradicts the words of Jesus. Doesn't that bother you at all?
It should bother him. If not, then his conscience is not condemning him for putting his understanding above scriptural truth in which case this would be the result of searing the conscience.
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