The Angel of the LORD

[GeneBalthrop]

Kerwin………..an unabridged dictionary is better, becasue over time our present dictionary's have reshaped the meaning of some words over time. Like faith for instance, it appears in our present dictionaries as a form of supposition without any need of real evidence required, but we know the Bible says that Faith is the Substance of whats hoped for, the evidence of thing not seen. There is a big difference in the two meanings of the word, one requires true evidence while the other requires only a supposition or any assumption. IMO

I also agree that Paul was still referencing the Flesh Body as being “Spiritual” functioning. If Paul was trying to say “spirit body” he would have said it that way, and not used the word Spiritual.  All resurrections in scripture show a Physical flesh body even Jesus had a physical body also. And God plainly said Adam and Eve could have lived for ever and not died with the bodies they had in Genesis had they eaten of the tree of life,

IMO its not understanding what a Spirit is is the big problem here and in most all religion. This seem to be a big Key in understanding many scriptures, IMO

peace and love to you and yours…………………………………………………..gene

[kerwin]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 10 2012,19:23)

Kerwin………..an unabridged dictionary is better, becasue over time our present dictionary's have reshaped the meaning of some words over time. Like faith for instance, it appears in our present dictionaries as a form of supposition without any need of real evidence required, but we know the Bible says that Faith is the Substance of whats hoped for, the evidence of thing not seen. There is a big difference in the two meanings of the word, one requires true evidence while the other requires only a supposition or any assumption. IMO I also agree that Paul was still referencing the Flesh Body as being “Spiritual” functioning. If Paul was trying to say “spirit body” he would have said it that way, and not used the word Spiritual.  All resurrections in scripture show a Physical flesh body even Jesus had a physical body also. And God plainly said Adam and Eve could have lived for ever and not died with the bodies they had in Genesis had they eaten of the tree of life, IMO its not understanding what a Spirit is is the big problem here and in most all religion. This seem to be a big Key in understanding many scriptures, IMO peace and love to you and yours…………………………………………………..gene

Gene,

Soulish and its ancient Greek equivalent do mean just what Merriam-Websters dictionary states; though as you say some words have altered meanings. My point was to show Mike it is a recognized English word.

Flesh + Breath = soul first becomes living.

Living Body – Soul = death.

The soul is in the blood and it is the life of the body.

A body relating to, involving, or suggesting the soul is buried and a body relating to, involving, or suggesting the spirit is raised.

[mikeboll64]

Kerwin,

Doesn't your explanation imply that those raised in spiritual bodies WON'T HAVE SOULS, since the “soulish body” is dead and gone?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 10 2012,02:25)

This word doesn't usually appear in our free dictionary………….

That could be why I've never heard of the word.

Of course, it could be omitted from the free dictionary because NOBODY has ever heard of it, and NOBODY ever uses it in day to day conversation.

But thanks for the info.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (t8 @ Sep. 09 2012,15:57)

Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 10 2012,06:43) Um, a, dah, um  –  the part where they can impregnate human women, having children 50% Angelic 50% human. What about God. He impregnated Mary.

Ed? Have you considered t8's point?

What is your understanding, btw? Do you agree with Kerwin that angels have flesh bodies all the time, but it's a different kind of flesh?

Or do you agree with Istari and a few others that angels manifested human bodies when they came to earth?

[Proclaimer]

Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 11 2012,12:44)

The soul is in the blood and it is the life of the body.

Three things to consider.

• If your blood was donated, would you come to life in another persons body?
• If we can be led by the body or spirit, then obviously we are neither. No one is led by the soul perhaps because they are the soul.
• If flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom and blood is the soul, then our souls are not saved.

1 Peter 1:9
for you are receiving the end result of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 11 2012,11:15)

Quote (t8 @ Sep. 09 2012,15:57) Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 10 2012,06:43) Um, a, dah, um  –  the part where they can impregnate human women, having children 50% Angelic 50% human. What about God. He impregnated Mary. Ed?  (1)Have you considered t8's point? What is your understanding, btw?  (2)Do you agree with Kerwin that angels have flesh bodies all the time, but it's a different kind of flesh? (3)Or do you agree with Istari and a few others that angels manifested human bodies when they came to earth?

Hi Mike,

1) The Angels took them to wife.                            Mary was not God's wife. He obviously planted the seed of Jesus
    This implies Angelic intercourse.                         (or just the “Y” chromosome needed to be male) by other means.

2) No clue. Wait a minute, Jesus resurrected body may be identical to theirs?     …just a thought?

3) This seems to be the case regardless of point #2.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[kerwin]

Quote (t8 @ Sep. 11 2012,07:40)

Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 11 2012,12:44) The soul is in the blood and it is the life of the body. Three things to consider. If your blood was donated, would you come to life in another persons body? If we can be led by the body or spirit, then obviously we are neither. No one is led by the soul perhaps because they are the soul. If flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom and blood is the soul, then our souls are not saved. 1 Peter 1:9 for you are receiving the end result of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

T8,

Good questions.

Lev. 17:14 literally states that the soul is in the blood but we know that the soul departs the body; even the blood at death.  The animals mentioned in Lev. 17:14 are dead and so their soul has already departed as has their life; and yet God teaches us that the soul is in the blood.

Keeping with Leviticus 17:14 and Romans 8:11 a soulish body is a body who is quickened by the soul while a spiritual body is a body who is quickened by the Spirit.

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 11 2012,06:09)

Kerwin, Doesn't your explanation imply that those raised in spiritual bodies WON'T HAVE SOULS, since the “soulish body” is dead and gone?

Mike,

As with most words it can mean several things; but I simply believe it is speaking of the soul quickened body.  In a like manner the Spiritual body is speaking of a Spirit quickened body. The soul remains but the Spirit is the one that gives life; just as before the resurrection the soul gives life even though the Spirit may be present doing its works.

[terraricca]

Quote (t8 @ Sep. 11 2012,19:40)

Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 11 2012,12:44) The soul is in the blood and it is the life of the body. Three things to consider. If your blood was donated, would you come to life in another persons body? If we can be led by the body or spirit, then obviously we are neither. No one is led by the soul perhaps because they are the soul. If flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom and blood is the soul, then our souls are not saved. 1 Peter 1:9 for you are receiving the end result of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

t8

excellent ,the soul is what God can save or destroy, because he is the one that had given it to us to do as we see fit to serve him or not.

[GeneBalthrop]

To all………….A Soul is simply a Body with Spirit (intellect) working in it. Our bodies have intellect working in the blood it maintains our bodies it can replicate cells. We know it as DNA the human code of life. Therefore it say that LIFE is (IN) the Blood and indeed it is. A man is a “living soul” as long as these processes are being carried out but when the blood can not repair because of age or the type of damage or loss of it to the body He becomes a dead Soul and his body begins to corrupt of decompose.

The whole concept of a Soul still living after death is a false concept, No scripture say our soul are still alive after death,  When a person is dead he or she is truly dead and being dead is not being alive in any state at all. We are totally dependent on a resurrection from that dead state. When Jesus said he was “DEAD” he really meant it and He was resurected with the Same Body that died and in that same body he is alive for ever more.  

Why because it say the “SOUL THAT SINS “IT” shall die. Jesus never sinned so even though he allowed his Soul/Body to Die for us, God still kept it and revived that same Soul/Body from the grave it was in , Why becasue that, Living SOUL (Jesus), never sinned. And so his Soul/Body never saw corruption in the grave. Because that is where a soul/body corrupts and returns back to the dust from which it came.

Physical bodies can live for ever and not die, as I have shown you all by what God said about Adam in Genesis , God did not created Man to ever die in the exact way he originally created him. Man Sinned and that is what brought death to him , not becasue he was a physical creation.

It say sin entered and death came with it. God limited the time of our lives after sin entered the world not before it entered. God warned Adam and Eve not to take to themselves to produce from self the knowledge of good and evil, because in the day (1000 yrs) they did they would die. Had they not did that they still would be alive even to this day in their same bodies> IMO

peace and love to you all………………………………………………..gene

[mikeboll64]

Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 11 2012,05:16)

Quote (t8 @ Sep. 11 2012,19:40) If your blood was donated, would you come to life in another persons body? If we can be led by the body or spirit, then obviously we are neither. No one is led by the soul perhaps because they are the soul. If flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom and blood is the soul, then our souls are not saved. t8 excellent…………..

Hi Pierre,

I also agree that t8 made some excellent points.  But consider the second one:

If WE can be led by the body, then WE are not the body.

If WE can be led by (or “worship in”) spirit, then WE are not spirit.

That implies that WE are souls, who are encased in a body, and HAVE a spirit.

Do you agree?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 10 2012,22:41)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 11 2012,11:15) (3)Or do you agree with Istari and a few others that angels manifested human bodies when they came to earth? 3) This seems to be the case regardless of point #2.

If they manifested human bodies, then the angels' sperm would have been human sperm, right?

Human sperm plus human egg doesn't equal 50% human, 50% angel, right?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 11 2012,01:43)

I simply believe it is speaking of the soul quickened body.  In a like manner the Spiritual body is speaking of a Spirit quickened body.  The soul remains but the Spirit is the one that gives life; just as before the resurrection the soul gives life even though the Spirit may be present doing its works.

John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Romans 8:11
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

These scriptures speak of mortal bodies, before the resurrection, being quickened by spirit.

I know of no scripture that speaks of a “soul quickened body”.  Do you?

Kerwin, it seems that as usual, you are going WAY out of your way to prohibit the scriptures from teaching the most likely and obvious lesson.

The latter part of 1 Cor 15 answers the question: With what kind of body will the dead be raised?

Paul explains:
42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

He also says in verse 37 that you don't sow what will be.

All these things (along with the rest of the passage) speak about being raised with an entirely different BODY. They don't imply it will be the same kind of body, but “quickened” by a different source. Instead, they teach of an entirely different BODY.

[terraricca]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 12 2012,09:01)

Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 11 2012,05:16) Quote (t8 @ Sep. 11 2012,19:40) If your blood was donated, would you come to life in another persons body? If we can be led by the body or spirit, then obviously we are neither. No one is led by the soul perhaps because they are the soul. If flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom and blood is the soul, then our souls are not saved. t8 excellent………….. Hi Pierre, I also agree that t8 made some excellent points.  But consider the second one: If WE can be led by the body, then WE are not the body. If WE can be led by (or “worship in”) spirit, then WE are not spirit. That implies that WE are souls, who are encased in a body, and HAVE a spirit. Do you agree?

hi Mike

I saw that ,and I thing that the soul his spirit ,because this is what we use to worship our God with IN SPIRIT ,

Jn 3:3 In reply Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.’”

see born again make sens because this is what now Christ at made available to us,but before we still ad the same soul ,but no place to go,no one teach it ,so many did even do not knew that they had one ,

to me what God as given us all is a SOUL this means a live person at the start of his journey ,the composition of a Soul I did not know ,but all beings has one soul ,angel ,men,and even God ,so to me this his our creation as beings ,and it is also the soul that will be judged ,men,angels,

the spirit in witch we communicate and form our soul to be either approve or rejected by God ,is related to our emotion ,our loves,and desires in our heart,THIS IS NOT THE SPIRIT THAT GOD GIVE US ,I believe like Paul says ,that God is always close to all of us through his angel that are spread all over in creation ,Gods angel save us ,guide us ,and protect us ,

so we have a soul ,if we are in the flesh ,but without flesh we are a soul ,

know the men inside ,the out side is only a cover for the soul ,

that is what I come to believe ,from my scriptures understanding .

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 12 2012,02:08)

Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 10 2012,22:41) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 11 2012,11:15) (3)Or do you agree with Istari and a few others that angels manifested human bodies when they came to earth? 3) This seems to be the case regardless of point #2. If they manifested human bodies, then the angels' sperm would have been human sperm, right? Human sperm plus human egg doesn't equal 50% human, 50% angel, right?

Hi Mike,

Do you not believe that the son's of God mentioned
in Genesis 6:2 were “Angels” and “Not Human”?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[kerwin]

Gene,

Quote

A Soul is simply a Body with Spirit (intellect) working in it

It does not work as Rachael died when her soul departed. How can a soul depart from a soul?

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 12 2012,16:39)

Gene, Quote A Soul is simply a Body with Spirit (intellect) working in it It does not work as Rachael died when her soul departed.  How can a soul depart from a soul?

Kerwin……….When we all die we depart to the grave>  Scripture says concerning Jesus that God would not let his soul see corruption   in the grave

Psa 16: 10….> For you will not leave my soul “in hell” (the grave) ; neither will you suffer your Holy One to see corruption.

Now notice the scripture above that Kerwin,

Psa 16:9…> Therefore my heart is glad and my glory rejoice: “my flesh” also shall rest in hope.

question for all why would his “FLESH” rest in hope if he does not need it. becasue he has a “SPIRIT BODY”, why worry about the “FLESH” ?

I maintain the Soul is the “complete Person” including his FLESH BODY. There is not one resurrection in scripture without a body> IMO

Peace and love to you and yours………………………..gene

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 11 2012,23:39)

Hi Mike, Do you not believe that the son's of God mentioned in Genesis 6:2 were “Angels” and “Not Human”?

Ed,

Didn't I already answer that question?  

YES, they were ANGELS.

Is it possible for a spirit being to impregnate a human woman without first manifesting a flesh body?  (Think: God and Mary)

Is there any scriptural indication that these spirit beings manifested flesh bodies before impregnating human women?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 12 2012,10:26)

Scripture says concerning Jesus that God would not let his soul see corruption in the grave Psa 16: 10….> For you will not leave my soul “in hell” (the grave) ; neither will you suffer your Holy One to see corruption.

Your scripture doesn't actually say what you claim it says, Gene.

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