Proclaimer Mikeboll64 vs JB2U

Participant

Quote (942767 @ Feb. 24 2014,05:29)

Hi Wakeup:

I have been commenting on the scriptures about the evil that God can do, but the list was quite long, and I don't have time to sit and research all of the scriptures that you posted at one sitting.

However, I believe that they will be similar because God is either causing tribulation to his children in order to get to repent or he is rendering judgment to His enemies.

I asked you to read Deut. 28 and you would understand the type of evil that God may do. He is Holy and it is impossible for Him to sin. Again, the scriptures state that Jesus is the express image of God's person, and Jesus has stated that through his works of obedience to God's Word, we have seen God's character manifest through his life.

Did Jesus sin? Also, as I have told you before, judgment for the wicked has already occurred in the Old Testament. In the present church age, from the time of the ministry of Jesus here on earth until he comes for the church, judgment for those who were not saved at that time for those that are alive at his coming for the church, and 1000 years later, for those who have died in their sins during this era.

Is God doing evil because He punishes the wicked for their rejection of his love and instead, persist in practicing sin?

I will get to each one of your scriptures as I have time.

Love in Christ,
Marty

Marty.

What is the problem?
I have all the chapters and verses written down.
All you have to do is to quote all of them from your bible.

wakeup.

February 23, 2014 at 10:51 pm#371696

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 24 2014,04:46)

Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 23 2014,11:10)

Marty; are you still going to comment to my list of evil
God can do?

I saw Marty comment on a couple of them – just like I did, Wakeup.

Perhaps Marty is like me, and waiting for you to post ONE scripture at a time, so we can show you – ONE AT A TIME – how not one of those scriptures say God created evil.

Ready, set, GO!

Mike B.

Why dont you quote all those scriptures from your bible.
Nine scriptures out of nine chapters.So we can all see what they say. Go.

wakeup.

February 24, 2014 at 4:09 pm#371710

Participant

Quote (942767 @ Feb. 24 2014,05:38)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 24 2014,02:44)

To All……..Now you have moved this argument to, that i am saying we do not have a WILL, that is Not the Point here I perfectly well know we all have will, the question He are those WILL “FREE” Not one scripture Posted by anyone say they ARE “FREE, but every thing posted is about a driven will and that is hardly a description of a WILL being “ITSELF” FREE I have never said God does not give us Liberty to exercise our “CAPTIVATED Will'S” FREELY now have I? So anyone show me one scripture that say a WILL itself is FREE, and i mean FREE of any INFLUENCE if indeed the WILL “ITSELF is truly free.

Wakeup your decision will be made by what “influences” you the MOST, not by a “so-called” WILL that is FREE. Now if it is based on what is INFLUENCING you the MOST, it is hardly FREE now is it. Now if WILL were free from Influences , then why did Jesus say “ not MY will , but thy WILL be done. Was it not because, what was “influencing”, his decision, was greater then his WILL was?

peace and love to you and yours…………………………………………gene

Hi Gene:

Yes, Gene we are influenced to do evil or to obey God, and so, it is good that you do say that “we have a will”, but how are you not free to make the decision, just like wakeup stated, about yielding to the temptation or not, and if you are saved, it will also be your decision to have said yes, to God when he called you into a relationship with Him.

So, in what way do we not have the freedom exercise our will to do either good or evil?

Love in Christ,
Marty

Marty……..I was not talking about the fact we are given freedom or liberty to excercise our will's , I was talking about the WILL'S themselves. As being held captive by lusts and the like. Do you think a drug addict, does not will to quite at times, and if what he does was simply a matter of a will that was free, why then can't they just simply quite. Fact is they are held captive by that addiction no matter who much they will or wish they did not have . Their wills are in bondage by the addiction, ONLY God can set us truly free from those desires , as he did with my nicotine habit many years ago. He removed it from me INSTANTLY , when I got up from a prayer asking for his help, after trying on my own for a year, no matter how much I willed to quite I just couldnn't , by my own Will and desires, my will was held captive by the nicotine addiction, and so it is in one way or another with all men. IMO

Peace and love to you and yours……………….gene

February 25, 2014 at 12:46 am#371711

mikeboll64

Blocked

Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 23 2014,15:51)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 24 2014,04:46)

Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 23 2014,11:10)

Marty; are you still going to comment to my list of evil
God can do?

I saw Marty comment on a couple of them – just like I did, Wakeup.

Perhaps Marty is like me, and waiting for you to post ONE scripture at a time, so we can show you – ONE AT A TIME – how not one of those scriptures say God created evil.

Ready, set, GO!

Mike B.

Why dont you quote all those scriptures from your bible.
Nine scriptures out of nine chapters.So we can all see what they say. Go.

wakeup.

I'm not sure where the list you apparently made for Marty even is, Wakeup.

Why don't you just post the first one, and I will post twenty other English translations.

Then we can delve into the actual meanings of the Hebrew or Greek words, and compare how those same words are translated in other scriptures and contexts.

That's how we can come to an educated understanding of which translation is the best, which translations are adequate, and which translations miss the boat entirely.

I'll do most of the work for you, because I know how you enjoy that light burden. All you have to do is post the first scripture.

February 25, 2014 at 1:33 am#371713

Participant

Mike B.

Exod.4:11
Deut.32:39.
1 Sam.2:6
Job. 26:13
Lament.3:38.
Psalms.78:49
Isai.45:7.
Isai.54:16.
Amos.3:6.

Just to see what your bible says.

wakeup.

February 25, 2014 at 2:26 am#371717

mikeboll64

Blocked

Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 24 2014,18:33)

Mike B.

Exod.4:11

Just to see what your bible says.

wakeup.

Exodus 4:11

New International Version
The LORD said to him, “Who gave human beings their mouths? Who makes them deaf or mute? Who gives them sight or makes them blind? Is it not I, the LORD?

New Living Translation
Then the LORD asked Moses, “Who makes a person's mouth? Who decides whether people speak or do not speak, hear or do not hear, see or do not see? Is it not I, the LORD?

English Standard Version
Then the LORD said to him, “Who has made man’s mouth? Who makes him mute, or deaf, or seeing, or blind? Is it not I, the LORD?

New American Standard Bible
The LORD said to him, “Who has made man's mouth? Or who makes him mute or deaf, or seeing or blind? Is it not I, the LORD?

King James Bible
And the LORD said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD?

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Yahweh said to him, “Who made the human mouth? Who makes him mute or deaf, seeing or blind? Is it not I, Yahweh?

International Standard Version
Then God asked him, “Who gives a person a mouth? Who makes him unable to speak, or deaf, or able to see, or blind, or lame? Is it not I, the LORD?

NET Bible
The LORD said to him, “Who gave a mouth to man, or who makes a person mute or deaf or seeing or blind? Is it not I, the LORD?

GOD'S WORD® Translation
The LORD asked him, “Who gave humans their mouths? Who makes humans unable to talk or hear? Who gives them sight or makes them blind? It is I, the LORD!

Jubilee Bible 2000
And the LORD said unto him, Who has made man's mouth? Or who makes the dumb or the deaf or the seeing or the blind? Am not I the LORD?

King James 2000 Bible
And the LORD said unto him, Who has made man's mouth? or who makes the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD?

American King James Version
And the LORD said to him, Who has made man's mouth? or who makes the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD?

American Standard Version
And Jehovah said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? Or who maketh a man dumb, or deaf, or seeing, or blind? Is it not I, Jehovah?

Douay-Rheims Bible
The Lord said to him: Who made man's mouth? or who made the dumb and the deaf, the seeing and the blind? did not I?

Darby Bible Translation
And Jehovah said to him, Who gave man a mouth? or who maketh dumb, or deaf, or seeing, or blind? [have] not I, Jehovah?

English Revised Version
And the LORD said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh a man dumb, or deaf, or seeing, or blind? is it not I the LORD?

Webster's Bible Translation
And the LORD said to him, Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD.

World English Bible
Yahweh said to him, “Who made man's mouth? Or who makes one mute, or deaf, or seeing, or blind? Isn't it I, Yahweh?

Young's Literal Translation
And Jehovah saith unto him, 'Who appointed a mouth for man? or who appointeth the dumb, or deaf, or open, or blind? is it not I, Jehovah?

NWT
At that Jehovah said to him: “Who appointed a mouth for man or who appoints the speechless or the deaf or the clear-sighted or the blind? Is it not I, Jehovah?

(Notice that FIVE of them actually put the divine name of God in there – where it should be. )

I don't see any of them, including the different KJV translations, that say “God created evil”.

Do you have any comments, before we do the next one?

February 25, 2014 at 6:18 am#371726

Participant

Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 25 2014,11:33)

Mike B.

Exod.4:11
Deut.32:39.
1 Sam.2:6
Job. 26:13
Lament.3:38.
Psalms.78:49
Isai.45:7.
Isai.54:16.
Amos.3:6.

Just to see what your bible says.

wakeup.

Hi Wakeup:

It is quite easy just to give the book and the scripture, but it is necessary to read them in context to understand what is being stated.

You accuse Pierre of doing this and then you do the same thing.

Now, do you understand the problem?

Love in Christ,
Marty

February 25, 2014 at 6:31 am#371728

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 25 2014,02:09)

Quote (942767 @ Feb. 24 2014,05:38)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 24 2014,02:44)

peace and love to you and yours…………………………………………gene

Hi Gene:

So, in what way do we not have the freedom exercise our will to do either good or evil?

Love in Christ,
Marty

Peace and love to you and yours……………….gene

Well then Gene, you do acknowledge that we have “a free will”, if you say that “we have the freedom to exercise our will”?

The addict was not born an addict, but somewhere along the way he was tempted to try the substance to which he is addicted, and he yielded to the temptation, and so, he freely became an addict, and yes, he has the freedom to quit the addiction if desires to do so, he may have to get some help to do it, but if he made a decision that he wants to quit, then “he freely decided to try to quit”. It may be very difficult to do, and sometimes, the only way to quit is to ask for God's help in quitting, but the decision has to be the addicts. God will not force him to want to quit or to serve Him or to ask for His help.

At one time in my life before I became a born again Christian, I was smoking two packs of cigarettes a day, but after I was born again in 1980, I quit smoking in 1981, and I haven't smoked at all since. But, yes, it was very difficult for me to quit. I used to throw my pack of cigarettes in the trash, and then I would have to go back and get them or if there was a butt in the ash tray, I would have to light it up to get a few puffs, but I quit. I just had to persist in doing so. The key is not to give up, and you won't if you want to do it bad enough.

Love in Christ,
Marty

February 25, 2014 at 7:35 am#371729

Participant

Hi Wakeup:

Job 26:13 states: Job 26:13
By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hand hath formed the crooked serpent.

This is part of a parable that Job was stating as he was trying to understand why he was going through all of his suffering, and trying to explain to those who were supposedly trying to comfort him, but were accusing him of suffering because of something evil that he had done, and God was punishing him for it. Job knew that he was not a wicked man, and was trying to justify his righteousness to his friends.
But yes, God created the crooked serpent, that has already been shown in my discussion with Pierre. God created all rational creatures with “a free will”.

Job 26:14 and 27:1 state:

Job 26:14
Lo, these are parts of his ways: but how little a portion is heard of him? but the thunder of his power who can understand?
Job 27:1

Moreover Job continued his parable, and said,
27:2
As God liveth, who hath taken away my judgment; and the Almighty, who hath vexed my soul;

Job 27:3
All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils;

Job 27:4
My lips shall not speak wickedness, nor my tongue utter deceit.

Job 27:5
God forbid that I should justify you: till I die I will not remove mine integrity from me.

Job 27:6
My righteousness I hold fast, and will not let it go: my heart shall not reproach me so long as I live.

Job 27:7
Let mine enemy be as the wicked, and he that riseth up against me as the unrighteous.

Job 27:8
For what is the hope of the hypocrite, though he hath gained, when God taketh away his soul?

But this is what God spoke to Job when these trials came to their conclusion:

Job 38
King James Version (KJV)

Quote

38 Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,

2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?

3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.

4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

8 Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?

9 When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it,

10 And brake up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors,

11 And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed?

12 Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days; and caused the dayspring to know his place;

13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?

14 It is turned as clay to the seal; and they stand as a garment.

15 And from the wicked their light is withholden, and the high arm shall be broken.

16 Hast thou entered into the springs of the sea? or hast thou walked in the search of the depth?

17 Have the gates of death been opened unto thee? or hast thou seen the doors of the shadow of death?

18 Hast thou perceived the breadth of the earth? declare if thou knowest it all.

19 Where is the way where light dwelleth? and as for darkness, where is the place thereof,

20 That thou shouldest take it to the bound thereof, and that thou shouldest know the paths to the house thereof?

21 Knowest thou it, because thou wast then born? or because the number of thy days is great?

22 Hast thou entered into the treasures of the snow? or hast thou seen the treasures of the hail,

23 Which I have reserved against the time of trouble, against the day of battle and war?

24 By what way is the light parted, which scattereth the east wind upon the earth?

25 Who hath divided a watercourse for the overflowing of waters, or a way for the lightning of thunder;

26 To cause it to rain on the earth, where no man is; on the wilderness, wherein there is no man;

27 To satisfy the desolate and waste ground; and to cause the bud of the tender herb to spring forth?

28 Hath the rain a father? or who hath begotten the drops of dew?

29 Out of whose womb came the ice? and the hoary frost of heaven, who hath gendered it?

30 The waters are hid as with a stone, and the face of the deep is frozen.

31 Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion?

32 Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons?

33 Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set the dominion thereof in the earth?

34 Canst thou lift up thy voice to the clouds, that abundance of waters may cover thee?

35 Canst thou send lightnings, that they may go and say unto thee, Here we are?

36 Who hath put wisdom in the inward parts? or who hath given understanding to the heart?

37 Who can number the clouds in wisdom? or who can stay the bottles of heaven,

38 When the dust groweth into hardness, and the clods cleave fast together?

39 Wilt thou hunt the prey for the lion? or fill the appetite of the young lions,

40 When they couch in their dens, and abide in the covert to lie in wait?

41 Who provideth for the raven his food? when his young ones cry unto God, they wander for lack of meat

39 Knowest thou the time when the wild goats of the rock bring forth? or canst thou mark when the hinds do calve?

2 Canst thou number the months that they fulfil? or knowest thou the time when they bring forth?

3 They bow themselves, they bring forth their young ones, they cast out their sorrows.

4 Their young ones are in good liking, they grow up with corn; they go forth, and return not unto them.

5 Who hath sent out the wild ass free? or who hath loosed the bands of the wild ass?

6 Whose house I have made the wilderness, and the barren land his dwellings.

7 He scorneth the multitude of the city, neither regardeth he the crying of the driver.

8 The range of the mountains is his pasture, and he searcheth after every green thing.

9 Will the unicorn be willing to serve thee, or abide by thy crib?

10 Canst thou bind the unicorn with his band in the furrow? or will he harrow the valleys after thee?

11 Wilt thou trust him, because his strength is great? or wilt thou leave thy labour to him?

12 Wilt thou believe him, that he will bring home thy seed, and gather it into thy barn?

13 Gavest thou the goodly wings unto the peacocks? or wings and feathers unto the ostrich?

14 Which leaveth her eggs in the earth, and warmeth them in dust,

15 And forgetteth that the foot may crush them, or that the wild beast may break them.

16 She is hardened against her young ones, as though they were not her's: her labour is in vain without fear;

17 Because God hath deprived her of wisdom, neither hath he imparted to her understanding.

18 What time she lifteth up herself on high, she scorneth the horse and his rider.

19 Hast thou given the horse strength? hast thou clothed his neck with thunder?

20 Canst thou make him afraid as a grasshopper? the glory of his nostrils is terrible.

21 He paweth in the valley, and rejoiceth in his strength: he goeth on to meet the armed men.

22 He mocketh at fear, and is not affrighted; neither turneth he back from the sword.

23 The quiver rattleth against him, the glittering spear and the shield.

24 He swalloweth the ground with fierceness and rage: neither believe
th he that it is the sound of the trumpet.

25 He saith among the trumpets, Ha, ha; and he smelleth the battle afar off, the thunder of the captains, and the shouting.

26 Doth the hawk fly by thy wisdom, and stretch her wings toward the south?

27 Doth the eagle mount up at thy command, and make her nest on high?

28 She dwelleth and abideth on the rock, upon the crag of the rock, and the strong place.

29 From thence she seeketh the prey, and her eyes behold afar off.

30 Her young ones also suck up blood: and where the slain are, there is she.

40 Moreover the Lord answered Job, and said,

2 Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him? he that reproveth God, let him answer it.

And Job answered God

Quote

40:3 Then Job answered the Lord, and said,
4 Behold, I am vile; what shall I answer thee? I will lay mine hand upon my mouth.

5 Once have I spoken; but I will not answer: yea, twice; but I will proceed no further.

Do you see how easy it was for you just to post the scriptures?

I will answer these one at a time, as I have the time.

Love in Christ,
Marty

February 25, 2014 at 7:52 am#371730

Participant

Here is another one, Wakeup:

Lamentations

Quote

38 Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good?

39 Wherefore doth a living man complain, a man for the punishment of his sins?

These verses are about God punishing Israel for their unrighteousness, and God told them what would happen if they disobeyed His commandments in Deut. 38, but God is about bringing them back to repentance through this.

Love in Christ,
Marty

February 25, 2014 at 8:27 am#371731

Participant

Psalm 78 is about the nation of Israel's rebellion against God although He had shown many miracles to them in bringing them out of the Egyptian bondage, and did not spare their Egyptian enemies, but spared not the “firstborn” of Egypt by sending the death angel.

Quote

43 How he had wrought his signs in Egypt, and his wonders in the field of Zoan.

44 And had turned their rivers into blood; and their floods, that they could not drink.

45 He sent divers sorts of flies among them, which devoured them; and frogs, which destroyed them.

46 He gave also their increase unto the caterpiller, and their labour unto the locust.

47 He destroyed their vines with hail, and their sycomore trees with frost.

48 He gave up their cattle also to the hail, and their flocks to hot thunderbolts.

49 He cast upon them the fierceness of his anger, wrath, and indignation, and trouble, by sending evil angels among them.

50 He made a way to his anger; he spared not their soul from death, but gave their life over to the pestilence;

51 And smote all the firstborn in Egypt; the chief of their strength in the tabernacles of Ham

And this what the children of the nation Israel did, although he had done all of the miracles, and judged their enemies with death, and he had led them out safely

Quote

56 Yet they tempted and provoked the most high God, and kept not his testimonies:

57 But turned back, and dealt unfaithfully like their fathers: they were turned aside like a deceitful bow.

Love in Christ,
Marty

February 25, 2014 at 8:38 am#371732

Participant

Wakeup: Isaiah 45:7 has already been explained to you by both me and Mike.

February 25, 2014 at 9:07 am#371733

Participant

Wakeup: Relative to Isaiah 54:16: God created all rational creatures including the “wasters” in that He allowed them to continue in this world because in doing so, He would use them to accomplish His purposes, the salvation of His Children. The examples of “the waster” are men like the Pharaoh and Nebuchadnezzar. God did various miracles in Pharaoh's presence, and although he was stubborn and would not let God's children go, God was able to convince the Pharaoh to let them go. The purpose then was to show His people that He could deliver them out Pharaoh's hand in spite of his objections. And through these miracles and through their deliverance, God had hoped that their faith would remain stedfast.

He allowed Nebuchadnezzar to continue so that he could allow him to destroy Jerusalem and take His people captive because of their disobedience. He then punished Nebuchadnezzar for doing this, and so in essence, God took away His protection from Jerusalem and the people, and allowed Nebuchadnezzar overcome them.

I hope that explains this scripture, but I have got to quit here for now. I am at work and at 4AM I am about to fall asleep.

I believe that there is “One more”

Love in Christ,
Marty

February 25, 2014 at 12:04 pm#371737

Participant

Hi Wakeup:

Unless I have missed one, this is the last of the scriptures that you posted, and the answer follows:

Quote

Amos 3:6 states: Amo 3:6
Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?

The answer is in these two scriptures:

Amo 3:2
You only have I known of all the families of the earth: therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities.
Amo 3:3
Can two walk together, except they be agreed?

In other words the evil that this is speaking of, is the judgement that God will bring upon His people because of their disobedience. Specifically, the evil that of which this is speaking is the captivity of the Northern Kingdom, Israel due to their continued disobedience.

Love in Christ,
Marty

February 25, 2014 at 3:25 pm#371738

Participant

To all…….All the Evil, scripture says God brings on people, is still Evil, no matter what the reason, Right. So to say God does not, create Evil in some circumstances is false, because he truly does. Tell us who made the Tree of Good “AND” EVIL, was it not God?, and who placed it in the Garden of Eden was it not God? Now if you are going to say God did not create Evil, then you must also say God did not create Good either right, did not God tell Adam, not to eat of the Tree of “GOOD” as WELL as “EVIL”. So Both things, they were told not to eat of,(take to themselves, to produce from self) , now if we believe God created Good then he also created Evil, neither of them just “happened” to come into existence , they “BOTH” are what Life consists of. IMO

The reason God puts Evil in a “Bottomless” Pit, is because there is NO END OF EVIL, therefore a “BOTTOMLESS” PIT, another words EVIL goes Downward forever, While GOOD goes upward FOREVER . There is no end to either of them, they are OPPOSITE of ONE ANOTHER They are what Life consists off. By one of then we come to “know” the other, the understanding of these two give us wisdom in life, they are both part of life, both now and forever. Life was created By God, and therefore it is right to say, God created BOTH GOOD and EVIL. He not only Created them both, he uses them Both as attested in scriptures. IMO

peace and love to you all…………………………..gene

February 25, 2014 at 4:40 pm#371739

Participant

Marty……..Your examples of God “USING” Evil to bring judgement on people is true , but to say God did not Create EVIL, would be the same as saying He did not created GOOD either. God Created Both of them that is, if you believe God created Life at all, because both are aspects of what LIFE consists of. Answer this one question OK, did God CREATE the TREE of the Knowledge of GOOD “AND” EVIL? If you answer yes< then consider that the word "KNOWLEDGE" in Genesis, means more, then just a "casual" Knowledge about something, it means an intimate relationship with something. God did not want man to take to them selves "EXPERIENCE" them both, but man wanted his OWN WILL to be "FREE", From GOD'S WILL, and disobeyed GOD'S "COMMANDS, as he still does to this day. Mans own will "freed" from God's Will, is what destroys him, it never has or can saves him. Man prides himself in his so-called freewill choices , and ascribes a righteousness of self from it, but God say "our" righteousness, a righteousness that come from our own "INFLUENCED" WILL'S, is as "filthy rage to him.

True righteousness is a CREATION from GOD ALONE and has nothing to do with OUR own SELF WILLS> All those who are of God have GOD'S WILL working in them , and are putting their wills to death, Like Jesus Did. For it is God that works in them “BOTH” to WILL and do of “HIS” GOOD PLEASURE It is not their so-called “FREEWILL”S working “IN” them doing “IT”S GOOD PLEASURE> IMO People cant even come to JESUS unless the FATHER DRAW them, if you believe Jesus' own words that is. Mans OWN, PRIDE will hang on to HIS OWN Righteousness< Just a s JOB DID, until he came to truly see God from what God is and who He was. All the righteousness that Job had, was altogether given hi m by God, in the First place and God even built a hedge around Job so no evil could get to him , until God allowed it to, and had that of not happened to Job, He would have been lost for ever. His own self willed righteousness would have completely destroyed him, so God had to do to Job what he did in order to save him. Sometime God uses EVIL even to kill the innocent to bring about His purposes, consider the Child born to King David and Bathsheba , or causing such a distress that Israelite's ate there own innocent Babies. Lets not kid ourselves here God is COMPLETELY "SOVEREIGN" in "ALL" things.

You put God in a BOX that fit your renditions of Him, you see the goodness but neglect the SEVERITY, by saying God can not do or create Evil, if he can bring it about he certainly can Do it. Even though his reasons for it may be righteous. IMO

peace and love to you and yours…………………………………gene

February 26, 2014 at 1:45 pm#371761

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 26 2014,01:25)

peace and love to you all…………………………..gene

GeneB.

If you can see that; why can't others?
They can not see nor will they see that good and evil
is under God's command.
God is the ceo in charge,therefore what ever happened in the world is under his control.

All those efforts trying to explain away the basic CORE
of evil,is worthless.***Evil was put there by God***;and none else. For it is His plan and no one else.

God is good, and want us to be like him by putting us through good and evil.He is putting us through the mould.
With no evil there can be no good.
If all is just good; what is evil?
If all is evil;what is good?

If all is darkness;what is light?
If all is light;what is darkness?

God created good and evil as a tool,to mould us to be like Him,knowing good and evil.

wakeup.

February 26, 2014 at 1:47 pm#371762

Participant

Gene:

If you have children and they do wrong and you have to discipline them because you know that if they continue in what they are doing, it will hurtful to them somewhere in their life at some point, do you see that discipline as evil?

When God disciplines or punishes us for our disobedience, it may seem evil to us and the scriptures translate it as evil, but God is using this so called evil to bring us to repentance so that we can learn from our mistakes and live a better life.

This scripture, I believe, may help explain what I have stated above:

Quote

Hebrews 12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.

11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

And God told the nation of Israel when he brought them out of bondage in Deuteronomy 28 what would happen both if they obeyed or disobeyed his commandments, and so, God is faithful to do what he said that he would. He was quite patient with the nation of Israel, and he is quite patient with us, but there comes a time when He has to say, enough is enough, and that is what He did and does.

And when God renders judgment on unbelievers it is because we will all be accountable to God for the life that we lived, either as his children or as children of the devil. Judgment is coming. We are accountable to God. He is not accountable to us. This world is His house, and He has already stated that if you want to live with Him in His house for an eternity, then we will do so according to His standards.

Judgment for unbelievers of the OT has already occurred. There will be no further judgment for them. They are dead forever. But in the New Testament era, judgment for unbelievers is being with-held until the church is taken out of this world.

Quote

25.Ezra 9:15
O Lord God of Israel, thou art righteous: for we remain yet escaped, as it is this day: behold, we are before thee in our trespasses: for we cannot stand before thee because of this.

And God says this:

Quote

7.Ezekiel 33:11
Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

God is righteous in all that He does, He is Holy, and cannot bear to see us destroy our lives through sin, and he wants the best for each of us, but some of just do not seem to understand this. It is our choice whether we choose to live or die, God has made a way for us to be reconciled to Him and live.

Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty

February 26, 2014 at 2:19 pm#371765

Participant

Marty.

I agree regarding us having our own choice.

I believe God created evil: You dont: Gene does.
I believe that we have our own choices to make:
You believe: Gene does not.
But we are very close to the truth.

I still dont know Your's and Gene's stand regarding the Word.
I would be nice to know.

wakeup.

February 26, 2014 at 4:40 pm#371769