Proclaimer Mikeboll64 vs JB2U

[942767]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 02 2014,01:14)

Hi Marty, To me is seems self evident that God foreknows anything He wants to foreknow. There would be no such thing as a prophecy without foreknowledge of the future.  And we all know that the scriptures are loaded with prophesies. Pierre and Seeking Truth seem to think God doesn't “foreknow” these things, but is confident in His own power to bring about anything He says will happen in the future.  So it's not really a matter of “foreseeing”, but a matter of CAUSING things to happen. But take the case of Cyrus.  God prophesied about him 400 years before he was born.  So even if they say God used His own power to CAUSE Cyrus to come into existence 400 years later (which I'm sure He did), it doesn't negate the fact that God KNEW He was GOING TO cause Cyrus to be born 400 years later.  And that is “FORESIGHT” – no matter how you slice it. I mean, if God KNOWS what's GOING TO occur 400 years in the future, then God “FOREKNOWS” those things.  And “FOREKNOW” = “FORESIGHT” = “FORSEEING”. But that Deuteronomy passage I quoted a long time ago sums it up for me.  Because it is clear from that passage that God FOREKNEW the Israelites would break His covenant by going after other gods. So the only question that remains is:  Did God use His own power to CAUSE the Israelites to go after other gods, thereby starting a chain reaction that ended with them eating their own children to survive? I say “NO”.  God FOREKNEW these things would come about, but He DIDN'T use His own power to CAUSE them.

Hi Mike:

He does cause what He is going to do to happen, but with man, he for-sees what they will do. The gospel is preached to every man or  He can cause some tribulation that may cause a man to do what He wants them to do, and
that is that they would repent and be reconciled to Himself out of His love for humanity, but man has the freedom to obey Him or not He does not force him to serve Him.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[942767]

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 02 2014,03:08)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 01 2014,20:14) Hi Marty, To me is seems self evident that God foreknows anything He wants to foreknow. There would be no such thing as a prophecy without foreknowledge of the future.  And we all know that the scriptures are loaded with prophesies. Pierre and Seeking Truth seem to think God doesn't “foreknow” these things, but is confident in His own power to bring about anything He says will happen in the future.  So it's not really a matter of “foreseeing”, but a matter of CAUSING things to happen. But take the case of Cyrus.  God prophesied about him 400 years before he was born.  So even if they say God used His own power to CAUSE Cyrus to come into existence 400 years later (which I'm sure He did), it doesn't negate the fact that God KNEW He was GOING TO cause Cyrus to be born 400 years later.  And that is “FORESIGHT” – no matter how you slice it. I mean, if God KNOWS what's GOING TO occur 400 years in the future, then God “FOREKNOWS” those things.  And “FOREKNOW” = “FORESIGHT” = “FORSEEING”. But that Deuteronomy passage I quoted a long time ago sums it up for me.  Because it is clear from that passage that God FOREKNEW the Israelites would break His covenant by going after other gods. So the only question that remains is:  Did God use His own power to CAUSE the Israelites to go after other gods, thereby starting a chain reaction that ended with them eating their own children to survive? I say “NO”.  God FOREKNEW these things would come about, but He DIDN'T use His own power to CAUSE them. Mike Quote Pierre and Seeking Truth seem to think God doesn't “foreknow” these things, but is confident in His own power to bring about anything He says will happen in the future.  So it's not really a matter of “foreseeing”, but a matter of CAUSING things to happen. no,mike that is not what i think ,BECAUSE GOD IS THE ONE THAT KNOWS WHERE HE IS GOING “HE DOES NOT NEED FOREKNOWLEDGE  ;THERE IS NO ONE THAT CAN STOP GOD FROM GOING WERE HE WANTS TO GO ,SO HE IS THE ONLY ONE TO KNOW OF WHAT HE WILL DO ;THE FACT THAT THERE ARE PROPHECY IT CONFIRMS THAT HE KNOWS FOR HE TELLS US WHAT WILL BE IN THE FUTURE,SO THAT WE (MEN) CAN HAVE FOREKNOWLEDGE OF HIS PLAN ; does anyone need foreknowledge of his own knowledge

Isn't “if He knows where He is going” fore-knowledge?

He intervenes in the affairs of man at specific points in time as the plan that He as for humanity progresses in each era to the coming of His Son in His ministry, and now, Jesus is the head of the church, and God responds to His and our prayers until Jesus comes for the church.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[mikeboll64]

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 01 2014,10:19)

God also knew that his son will be send 4000 years AHEAD OF TIME down to give up his live for us all……..

Then you agree that God “FOREKNEW” these things 4000 years before they happened, right?

[GeneBalthrop]

Marty……….Man will always choose what is driving him, if it is the Spirit of God then he will chose God will, if it is the flesh of Man it will always chose it's own way. Now consider this, Jesus said “no man “CAN” come unto me except the Father DRAW (drag) Him”. Also what the Apostle Paul said , That good thing he would do, he did not do, but that thing he wouldn't do that he did, and then he concludes with , O Wretched Man that I am , who can deliver me from this body of death, and he thanked God that through Jesus Christ he would be delivered.

Paul also said that he found no good thing in his flesh “why” because to “WILL” was present in him. So I conclude that our Will is not the Will of GOD, and it is what separates us from God . Therefore Jesus said “NOT MY “WILL” But thy Will be done. And again “THY KINGDOM COME “THY WILL” BE DONE. IMO

peace and love to you and your Marty………………………………………gene

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 02 2014,15:12)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 02 2014,05:52) Terricca………..God not only tells us what he will do, he also foreknows, exactly what we will do, at any give moment of time, or he couldn't be  “all knowing”, knowing the end from the beginning, he knows from the start all the way to the finish, both now, and forever, he always has. Man”s ego come from  him believing,  that his destiny is based on his so-called “freewill” choices and efforts. His desire, to posses a WILL, “FREE” FROM GOD'S WILL, IS THE WORK OF SATAN HIMSELF, and functions to produce PRIDE. Egotistical people are all about themselves and there own so-called “FREE” WILLS, controlling their lives. “Free”-willed people are “STUBBORN”, and SELF-CENTERED People, giving themselves all the credit for what ever they do.  IMO love and peace……………………………………gene g you are given men to much credit way to much credit ,

Terricca……….Show me where what i wrote give any credit to man. If you have read what i wrote you could clearly see i was not giving Man any credit at all. In fact it is you who credit man with his power to save himself by his so-called “FREEWILL” Choices not me. Again you simply blab and say things that no one is even saying. IMO

peace and love……………………………gene

[942767]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 04 2014,02:18)

Marty……….Man will always choose what is driving him, if it is  the Spirit of God then he will chose God will, if it is the flesh of Man it will always chose it's own way. Now consider this, Jesus said “no man “CAN” come unto me except the Father DRAW (drag) Him”. Also what the Apostle Paul said , That good thing he would do, he did not do, but that thing he wouldn't do that he did, and then he concludes with , O Wretched Man that I am , who can deliver me from this body of death, and he thanked God that through Jesus Christ he would be delivered. Paul also said that he found no good thing in his flesh “why”  because to “WILL” was present in him. So I  conclude that our Will is not the Will of GOD, and it is what separates us from God . Therefore Jesus said “NOT MY “WILL” But thy Will be done. And again “THY KINGDOM COME “THY WILL” BE DONE. IMO peace and love to you and your Marty………………………………………gene

I'm sorry Gene, thanks for the encouragement, but I have already discussed with you my understanding relative to “no one comes to the Father except HE drag them”, and the idea opinion that you have relative to “free will”, and I disagree with your opinions relative to these subjects, and my understanding of what the Apostle Paul statement relative to the struggle that he was having about doing the what was right had to do with his life under the Law of Moses prior to him coming to Christ not after. Certainly after we come to Christ, we will be mistakes, but no, if you are a Christian, one's desire is to obey the Lord.

But what I have learned about men when they have formed an opinion based on their understanding of the scriptures, they have a difficult time admitting that they have misunderstood the scriptures when it is plainly shown to them. Why? I can only say that it has to do with pride.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[terraricca]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 02 2014,21:35)

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 01 2014,10:19) God also knew that his son will be send 4000 years AHEAD OF TIME down to give up his live for us all…….. Then you agree that God “FOREKNEW” these things 4000 years before they happened, right?

Mike

God “KNOWNS ” BECAUSE THAT WAS HIS PLAN ” MY QUESTION WAS :IS KNOWING = TO FORESEEN IF YES THEN THEN YES GOD FORESEES ,

TO ME GOD KNOWS WHAT HE GOING TO DO AT ALL TIME AND HAS MANY PLANS BUT THEY WILL BECOME FULFILLED IN THEIR OWN GOD WILLING TIME ,

HE KNOWS WHEN ,WE DO NOT KNOW, I DO UNDERSTAND THAT GOD SEES HIS PLANS LIKE ALREADY DONE ,BECAUSE HE AS NO ONE TO REALY OPPOSE THEM,

TO ME THE WORD FORESEEN ;MEAN TO SEE IN THE UNKNOWN FUTURE,

SAME THE WORD ;FOREKNOWLEDGE MEANS; TO HAVE KNOWLEDGE OF THE UNKNOWN FURTURE ,

I also do see God intervention in men”s live just the way he intervene with Cain before he killed his brother ,but many do not listen to him for their own reasons ,
IF THAT IS NOT SO ,PLEASE CORRECT ME ,

[terraricca]

Marty

Quote

Isn't “if He knows where He is going” fore-knowledge? He intervenes in the affairs of man at specific points in time as the plan that He as for humanity progresses in each era to the coming of His Son in His ministry, and now, Jesus is the head of the church, and God responds to His and our prayers until Jesus comes for the church. Love in Christ, Marty

you do not answer the question and my concern ,you just void what does not fit in your understanding .

[Wakeup]

Marty.

The fox has been sucking on wolves breasts.
So dont take him too seriously.

wakeup.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 03 2014,10:02)

MY QUESTION WAS :IS KNOWING = TO FORESEEN IF YES THEN THEN YES GOD FORESEES

Yes Pierre,

“Foreknowledge” is the ability to have knowledge about something that hasn't yet happened.  It means to know something AHEAD OF TIME.

And a synonym of “foreknowledge” is “foresight”.  And “foresight” means “the ability to foresee”.

So whether God can foresee things because He has a crystal ball and can look at future events today, or because He knows what He's going to cause to happen – it is still a matter of “foreknowledge/foresight/foreseeing”.

From Dictionary.com:
fore·sight

noun  

1. care or provision for the future; provident care; prudence.

2. the act or power of foreseeing; prevision; prescience.

3. an act of looking forward.

4. knowledge or insight gained by or as by looking forward; a view of the future.

Synonyms
prudence, foreknowledge

[942767]

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 04 2014,03:12)

Marty Quote Isn't “if He knows where He is going” fore-knowledge? He intervenes in the affairs of man at specific points in time as the plan that He as for humanity progresses in each era to the coming of His Son in His ministry, and now, Jesus is the head of the church, and God responds to His and our prayers until Jesus comes for the church. Love in Christ, Marty you do not answer the question and my concern ,you just void what does not fit in your understanding .

Pierre:

I answered your questions.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[terraricca]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 04 2014,01:45)

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 03 2014,10:02) MY QUESTION WAS :IS KNOWING = TO FORESEEN IF YES THEN THEN YES GOD FORESEES Yes Pierre, “Foreknowledge” is the ability to have knowledge about something that hasn't yet happened.  It means to know something AHEAD OF TIME. And a synonym of “foreknowledge” is “foresight”.  And “foresight” means “the ability to foresee”. So whether God can foresee things because He has a crystal ball and can look at future events today, or because He knows what He's going to cause to happen – it is still a matter of “foreknowledge/foresight/foreseeing”. From Dictionary.com: fore·sight noun   1. care or provision for the future; provident care; prudence. 2. the act or power of foreseeing; prevision; prescience. 3. an act of looking forward. 4. knowledge or insight gained by or as by looking forward; a view of the future. Synonyms prudence, foreknowledge

Mike

it does not say that the foreknowledge is obtained by being KNOWN OR NOT KNOWN

AND THAT IS MY POINT ;

as the dictionary explain it it seem to find out some thing in the future we don not know now ;

while in God case God knows all things because he cause his plans to succeed with no one to stop him ,so why would he use FOREKNOWLEDGE OF THE THINGS HE KNOW FORE WELL THAT WILL HAPPEN

[terraricca]

Quote (942767 @ Feb. 04 2014,02:04)

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 04 2014,03:12) Marty Quote Isn't “if He knows where He is going” fore-knowledge? He intervenes in the affairs of man at specific points in time as the plan that He as for humanity progresses in each era to the coming of His Son in His ministry, and now, Jesus is the head of the church, and God responds to His and our prayers until Jesus comes for the church. Love in Christ, Marty you do not answer the question and my concern ,you just void what does not fit in your understanding . Pierre: I answered your questions. Love in Christ, Marty

Marty

how did you

[mikeboll64]

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 03 2014,15:01)

in God case God knows all things because he cause his plans to succeed with no one to stop him……..

So then you think God CAUSED the Israelites to sin against Him by going after other gods?

[terraricca]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 04 2014,03:10)

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 03 2014,15:01) in God case God knows all things because he cause his plans to succeed with no one to stop him…….. So then you think God CAUSED the Israelites to sin against Him by going after other gods?

Mike

was the plan of God to cause Israel to sin I do not say that because God as no such a plan ,

is it not the heart of men that is wicked and have wicked plans ,???

the plans of God are well known through his creation ,meaning all creation was made for the benefit of men ,

when men separated himself from God his creator he start to demolish his own house ,physically and spiritually ,

[Wakeup]

T.

How can God keep His plan together in tact by depending on every mans choice? By the will of every man/nation?
please explain.

wakeup.

[mikeboll64]

This is a useless argument, IMO.

Because even if Pierre and Wm are correct, and God can only foretell what's going to happen because He knows ahead of time what He's going to CAUSE to happen, it is STILL a matter of God “foreknowing” something.

And to “foreknow” something is to have “foresight”. And to have “foresight” is to have the ability to “foresee”.

So no matter which side of the coin you are on, the bottom line is that God CAN “foresee” the future.

I mean, how could God have painted such a detailed picture of future events for John in Revelation if God Himself cannot foresee all those same details in His own mind?

[terraricca]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 05 2014,00:03)

This is a useless argument, IMO. Because even if Pierre and Wm are correct, and God can only foretell what's going to happen because He knows ahead of time what He's going to CAUSE to happen, it is STILL a matter of God “foreknowing” something. And to “foreknow” something is to have “foresight”.  And to have “foresight” is to have the ability to “foresee”. So no matter which side of the coin you are on, the bottom line is that God CAN “foresee” the future. I mean, how could God have painted such a detailed picture of future events for John in Revelation if God Himself cannot foresee all those same details in His own mind?

Mike

so what you telling me is the knowing what you do and have the ability to do all what you have plan with no one to stop you ,IS THE SAME AS FORESEEN AND FOREKNOWLEDGE , PRIOR TO THE END OF THE PLAN

[mikeboll64]

Yes Pierre.

[terraricca]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 05 2014,01:45)

Yes Pierre.

well in that case i agree ,but it seems the dictionary does not come out that way ,

and it seems that it is not the way people understand it ,

so clear the blurs for me

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