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Mike
Quote Marty has said it correctly this time: God created all intelligent beings with the free will to choose either to go along with His will, or to go against His will. These are OUR choices to make each day. If we choose to go against God's will, we commit the act of “evil”. God didn't create that act. He created us with the free will to make the choice. this i do not what i argue because it is true ,and this was and is not what we arguing about ;it is foresee/n and foreknowledge of God that i question
Marty
Quote What God does have the foreknowledge of what He will do is one thing, and He does reveal to us in the scriptures what He will do at points in time in the earth, but what He will do is by His freedom to do so, and what he has for-seen that man will do is another. lets be clear I DO NOT BELIEVE GOD AS FOREKNOWLEDGE OF HIS OWN PLAN ;THIS DOES NOT MAKE SENS ;EITHER GOD KNOWS WHAT HE PLANS AND DO ,OR HE DOES NOT ,
IF HE KNOWS LIKE I THINK HE DOES WHY WOULD I CALLED IT FOREKNOWLEDGE OR FORESEE ;I WOULD CALL IT THAT IF IT IS GIVEN TO MEN ;I MEAN THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE PLAN OF GOD ,THEN FROM MEN'S POINT OF VIEW YES IT IS FOREKNOWLEDGE AND FORESEE/N ,BUT NOT FOR GOD
Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 26 2014,08:44) Marty Quote What God does have the foreknowledge of what He will do is one thing, and He does reveal to us in the scriptures what He will do at points in time in the earth, but what He will do is by His freedom to do so, and what he has for-seen that man will do is another. lets be clear I DO NOT BELIEVE GOD AS FOREKNOWLEDGE OF HIS OWN PLAN ;THIS DOES NOT MAKE SENS ;EITHER GOD KNOWS WHAT HE PLANS AND DO ,OR HE DOES NOT ,
IF HE KNOWS LIKE I THINK HE DOES WHY WOULD I CALLED IT FOREKNOWLEDGE OR FORESEE ;I WOULD CALL IT THAT IF IT IS GIVEN TO MEN ;I MEAN THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE PLAN OF GOD ,THEN FROM MEN'S POINT OF VIEW YES IT IS FOREKNOWLEDGE AND FORESEE/N ,BUT NOT FOR GOD
Ok., we were talking about the fact that God has fore-seen everything from the beginning of his creation until the end, and now, you are saying that He did not have a plan before the foundation of the world.When any builder begins to build a house he always starts with a plan, and you call God the Great Architect, of course, He had a plan.
And the building now is being built by His Son,(the final temple of God) and Jesus Christ is the foundation which has been laid, and each of us born again believers are living stones in the building, and the scriptures state that together we are builded for a habitation of God.
I believe that you need to study a little more in order to arrive at the truth, and so do I. You have a lot of bible knowledge, but neither you nor I know it all, but if the scriptures state something is true. I for one am not going to argue with the scriptures. This is God's Word that we are dealing with, and we have to be careful of what we teach.
Quote
Eph 2:20And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
Eph 2:21
In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
Eph 2:22
In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
Quote
1Cr 3:9For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
1Cr 3:10
According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
1Cr 3:11
For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1Cr 3:12
Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
1Cr 3:13
Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Cr 3:14
If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Cr 3:15
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
1Cr 3:16
Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1Cr 3:17
If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
And we build His Holy Temple by applying the Word of God to our daily living and by teaching others the Word of God.
God's plan is His Word, and so, the scriptures states: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God”.
You can teach that God has not fore-seen everything from the beginning to the end if you want, but not me. I am convinced by the scripture that says that He does.
Love in Christ,
MartyMarty
Quote Ok., we were talking about the fact that God has fore-seen everything from the beginning of his creation until the end, and now, you are saying that He did not have a plan before the foundation of the world. you have it all wrong ;please read my quotes
Marty
Quote And we build His Holy Temple by applying the Word of God to our daily living and by teaching others the Word of God. you see that : WE ” WELL TO ME THEIR IS NO “WE” BUT CHRIST BUT IF WE “DO ” WHAT HE ASK “WE” MAY BE FIND OUR SELVES BE PART IN SOME WAY TO BE USE FULL TO HIM THAT HAS ALL THE POWER AND WHO IS LOVE ,KIND,MERCIFUL ,
WE ARE NOT BUILDING ANYTHING ,ONLY THE MASON (CHRIST) PICKS HIS STONES TO BE USED FOR THE TEMPLE OF GOD
Marty
Quote You can teach that God has not fore-seen everything from the beginning to the end if you want, but not me. I am convinced by the scripture that says that He does. god as plan everything ,that means from were to were he will go ;the powers of God doe not need for God to FORESEE ANYTHING ,ONLY MEN ARE INTERESTED IN THE UNKNOWN ,GOD KNOWS WHAT HE DOES ;NOT MEN OR ANGEL WE EITHER LISTEN TO THE TRUTH OF GOD OR NOT
AND FOR YOUR INFO ::THEIR WILL BE NO END TO THE KINGDOM OF GOD ;SO HIS PLAN FROM THE BEGINNING WAS SET FOR A TIME
Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 25 2014,14:36) God KNOWS WHAT HE HIS DOING AND WERE HE IS GOING AND SO TO HIM THERE IS NO FOREKNOWLEDGE OR FORESEEING AT ALL
Isaiah 41:22-23
“Tell us, you idols, what is going to happen. Tell us what the former things were, so that we may consider them and know their final outcome.Or declare to us the things to come, tell us what the future holds, so we may know that you are gods.
Jehovah is saying that if the idols of the nations were truly gods, they too would be able to foresee the future.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 26 2014,21:46) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 25 2014,14:36) God KNOWS WHAT HE HIS DOING AND WERE HE IS GOING AND SO TO HIM THERE IS NO FOREKNOWLEDGE OR FORESEEING AT ALL
Isaiah 41:22-23
“Tell us, you idols, what is going to happen. Tell us what the former things were, so that we may consider them and know their final outcome.Or declare to us the things to come, tell us what the future holds, so we may know that you are gods.
Jehovah is saying that if the idols of the nations were truly gods, they too would be able to foresee the future.
Mikeit seems that i do not see that in that scripture,what i understand is that God says ;if they are gods why can they not tell what going to happen ;
but God almighty knows his own plan ,and so he can tell to us what will come and no one can stop him ,now with the other gods what ever they say God almighty can change what they say and they cannot do anything about it ,
I DO NOT SEE FORESEE IN THOSE SCRIPTURES
BUT IT IS MORE THE TRYING OF THE IDOLS TRYING TO BE LIKE GOD ALMIGHTY ,
Pierre,
Follow along with me here:
If God is in control, and can shape the future anyway He wants it to be, and no one can stop His plans, then God already KNOWS what WILL BE – because He is the one who is going to cause it to be that way, right?
And since He already KNOWS, ahead of time, what He is going to cause to happen, then He already KNOWS, ahead of time, what will be.
And that is called “FOREKNOWLEDGE”. And another word for “foreknowledge” is “FORESIGHT”.
Saying that God has “FOREKNOWLEDGE” of the future is the same exact thing as saying God can “FORESEE” the future.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 26 2014,23:33) Pierre, Follow along with me here:
If God is in control, and can shape the future anyway He wants it to be, and no one can stop His plans, then God already KNOWS what WILL BE – because He is the one who is going to cause it to be that way, right?
And since He already KNOWS, ahead of time, what He is going to cause to happen, then He already KNOWS, ahead of time, what will be.
And that is called “FOREKNOWLEDGE”. And another word for “foreknowledge” is “FORESIGHT”.
Saying that God has “FOREKNOWLEDGE” of the future is the same exact thing as saying God can “FORESEE” the future.
Mikeyeah i follow you and in a way you right ,but to my understanding their is a slide difference of knowing your own plan and the ability of foreseen or foreknowledge of things ;
let say i have the powers to go from A to D and that is the way my plan will be ,
now the fact that on the road to D let say at C there is a murder ,would this affect my road
was this part of my road did i plan this to happen could i know that it will happen why would i be influence by it to my final destination now sins it is per mean of the ground roads that i chose to go I could understand the possibilities of what could or could not happen but to whatever happen can I not deal with it ,as it show up Yes Pierre,
There is a big difference between YOU planning out the route you want to take from A to D – and GOD planning His route.
YOU can't control the variables that might cause you to be stopped in your tracks.
On the other hand, God CAN control those variable.
And if there happens to be a murder on C, rest assured that God already knew ahead of time about that murder.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 27 2014,01:32) Yes Pierre, There is a big difference between YOU planning out the route you want to take from A to D – and GOD planning His route.
YOU can't control the variables that might cause you to be stopped in your tracks.
On the other hand, God CAN control those variable.
And if there happens to be a murder on C, rest assured that God already knew ahead of time about that murder.
Quote There is a big difference between YOU planning out the route you want to take from A to D – and GOD planning His route.
Je
yes you are right ;and for good reasons ;YOU can't control the variables that might cause you to be stopped in your tracks.AND THIS IS TRUE.Quote On the other hand, God CAN control those variable. BUT DOES GOD AS TO CONTROL OR INTERVENE IN ALL WHAT THE WICKED DOES
NO,ONLY THE THINGS THAT MAY JEOPARDIZE HIS PLAN ,AND MOST OF THAT PLAN WE DO NOT KNOW AT LEAST NOT YET , Quote And if there happens to be a murder on C, rest assured that God already knew ahead of time about that murder. SO I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT THE MURDER WAS GOING TO INTERFERE WITH THE TRIP SO IT WOULD NOT MATTER IF IT HAPPEN OR NOT ;I UNDERSTAND THAT IT IS THE GLORY OF GOD THAT IS AT STAKE NOT MEN 'S
THINK THIS WAY ;WHILE CHRIST WAS PREACHING THE GOSPEL AND GIVE UP HIS LIFE FOR US ;THE REST OF THE WORLD ,I MEAN ,CHINA,EUROPE,AMERICAS ,WAS NOT A CONVERTED PEOPLE AND CRIMES WERE COMMITTED,
SOME NATION WERE WIPED OUT LONG BEFORE WE EVER HEARD OF THEM AND AD NOTHING TO DO WITH CHRIST ,
THEIR WERE ALSO MANY SICK PEOPLE IN THE MIDDLE EAST BUT NOT ALL WERE HEALED ,
AND YET SCRIPTURES SAYS THAT ALL MEN BELONG TO HIM NOT ONLY THE Israelite 'S ,
SO DOES GOD FOREKNOWS OR SHOULD WE SAY ;KNOWS or HIS KNOWING THE SAME AS FOREKNOWING
Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 26 2014,15:48) SO DOES GOD FOREKNOWS OR SHOULD WE SAY ;KNOWS HIS KNOWING THE SAME AS FOREKNOWING
I don't understand the last part of what you said, but I believe that “foresee” and “foreknow” are the right words in this case.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 27 2014,04:43) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 26 2014,15:48) SO DOES GOD FOREKNOWS OR SHOULD WE SAY ;KNOWS HIS KNOWING THE SAME AS FOREKNOWING
I don't understand the last part of what you said, but I believe that “foresee” and “foreknow” are the right words in this case.
MikeI corrected that Last sentence advint the Word , or,
DOES IT make more sens nowHi Mike:
I hope that you can get him to see the truth which is plainly stated by the scripture. It does require someone one to interpret it. He states clearly that “He declares (tells us) the end from the beginning.
I give up trying, and so, I hope that you, or someone else can help him.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ Jan. 27 2014,07:11) Hi Mike: I hope that you can get him to see the truth which is plainly stated by the scripture. It does require someone one to interpret it. He states clearly that “He declares (tells us) the end from the beginning.
I give up trying, and so, I hope that you, or someone else can help him.
Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyI do understand that God knows and that because he his the source of his own plan he know all about it , so he can tell it from A to Z what it will be,
This ls my dilemma , can we say that God as fore knowledge even though we know he knows everything of his plan
Can we say that God as foreseen anything when we know that he his the source of all things ,I believe that someone that knows everything does not need foreknowledge or to foresee things,
but men who does not know , when he as received prophecy this give them foreknowledge and when it is explain to them they now can foresee what it is to come in the future
Is this view false
Mike /Marty
please read this Psalm very slowly ;
Psalm 107
Ps 107:1 Give thanks to the LORD, for he is good;
his love endures forever.
Ps 107:2 Let the redeemed of the LORD say this—
those he redeemed from the hand of the foe,
Ps 107:3 those he gathered from the lands,
from east and west, from north and south.Ps 107:4 Some wandered in desert wastelands,
finding no way to a city where they could settle.
Ps 107:5 They were hungry and thirsty,
and their lives ebbed away.
Ps 107:6 Then they cried out to the LORD in their trouble,
and he delivered them from their distress.
Ps 107:7 He led them by a straight way
to a city where they could settle.
Ps 107:8 Let them give thanks to the LORD for his unfailing love
and his wonderful deeds for men,
Ps 107:9 for he satisfies the thirsty
and fills the hungry with good things.Ps 107:10 Some sat in darkness and the deepest gloom,
prisoners suffering in iron chains,
Ps 107:11 for they had rebelled against the words of God
and despised the counsel of the Most High.
Ps 107:12 So he subjected them to bitter labor;
they stumbled, and there was no one to help.
Ps 107:13 Then they cried to the LORD in their trouble,
and he saved them from their distress.
Ps 107:14 He brought them out of darkness and the deepest gloom
and broke away their chains.
Ps 107:15 Let them give thanks to the LORD for his unfailing love
and his wonderful deeds for men,
Ps 107:16 for he breaks down gates of bronze
and cuts through bars of iron.Ps 107:17 Some became fools through their rebellious ways
and suffered affliction because of their iniquities.
Ps 107:18 They loathed all food
and drew near the gates of death.
Ps 107:19 Then they cried to the LORD in their trouble,
and he saved them from their distress.
Ps 107:20 He sent forth his word and healed them;
he rescued them from the grave.
Ps 107:21 Let them give thanks to the LORD for his unfailing love
and his wonderful deeds for men.
Ps 107:22 Let them sacrifice thank offerings
and tell of his works with songs of joy.Ps 107:23 Others went out on the sea in ships;
they were merchants on the mighty waters.
Ps 107:24 They saw the works of the LORD,
his wonderful deeds in the deep.
Ps 107:25 For he spoke and stirred up a tempest
that lifted high the waves.
Ps 107:26 They mounted up to the heavens and went down to the depths;
in their peril their courage melted away.
Ps 107:27 They reeled and staggered like drunken men;
they were at their wits’ end.
Ps 107:28 Then they cried out to the LORD in their trouble,
and he brought them out of their distress.
Ps 107:29 He stilled the storm to a whisper;
the waves of the sea were hushed.
Ps 107:30 They were glad when it grew calm,
and he guided them to their desired haven.
Ps 107:31 Let them give thanks to the LORD for his unfailing love
and his wonderful deeds for men.
Ps 107:32 Let them exalt him in the assembly of the people
and praise him in the council of the elders.Ps 107:33 He turned rivers into a desert,
flowing springs into thirsty ground,
Ps 107:34 and fruitful land into a salt waste,
because of the wickedness of those who lived there.
Ps 107:35 He turned the desert into pools of water
and the parched ground into flowing springs;
Ps 107:36 there he brought the hungry to live,
and they founded a city where they could settle.
Ps 107:37 They sowed fields and planted vineyards
that yielded a fruitful harvest;
Ps 107:38 he blessed them, and their numbers greatly increased,
and he did not let their herds diminish.Ps 107:39 Then their numbers decreased, and they were humbled
by oppression, calamity and sorrow;
Ps 107:40 he who pours contempt on nobles
made them wander in a trackless waste.
Ps 107:41 But he lifted the needy out of their affliction
and increased their families like flocks.
Ps 107:42 The upright see and rejoice,
but all the wicked shut their mouths.Ps 107:43 Whoever is wise, let him heed these things
and consider the great love of the LORD.T.
There is no need to post all those scriptures.
You are just planning your get away.God is yeasterday;today;and tomorrow, and forever.
He is not in our time Zone. A thousand years is AS one day
to God. He sees everything,He can forsee everything.
Six thousand years is AS six days to Him.
He can see everything from his habitation above,looking down.wakeup.
Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 27 2014,15:09) Quote (942767 @ Jan. 27 2014,07:11) Hi Mike: I hope that you can get him to see the truth which is plainly stated by the scripture. It does require someone one to interpret it. He states clearly that “He declares (tells us) the end from the beginning.
I give up trying, and so, I hope that you, or someone else can help him.
Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyI do understand that God knows and that because he his the source of his own plan he know all about it , so he can tell it from A to Z what it will be,
This ls my dilemma , can we say that God as fore knowledge even though we know he knows everything of his plan
Can we say that God as foreseen anything when we know that he his the source of all things ,I believe that someone that knows everything does not need foreknowledge or to foresee things,
but men who does not know , when he as received prophecy this give them foreknowledge and when it is explain to them they now can foresee what it is to come in the future
Is this view false
Hi Pierre:Yes, you are correct in stating that HE has all the knowledge of what will happen prior to it happening, but that is because he has already seen it happening that way from the beginning to the end, and that is to for-see, before it happened he knew that it would happen, and so he tells us by the scriptures those things that will come to pass in the future so that we, His children will be prepared for what is ahead.
But some things He did not tells such as the day and the Hour that He will send Jesus to reconcile the church unto himself in the rapture. This He did not even tell Jesus.
Love in Christ,
MartyTerricca…….God the Father is all knowing, scripture ,clearly says he knows the end from the beginning, so to me that says it all. I have wondered though, why does he then TEST, our faith then, as in the case of Abraham , where it says as I recall, “now I know” , that Abraham would withhold nothing from him , after he was going sacrifice his son Isaac. I have thought about that before , was it because, God did not truly know what he would do, or was it for Abraham's benefit. I believe it was for Abraham's denefit, to encrease his faith and complete reliance on God, we are told that the trying of our faith is more precious then Gold. lMO
Peace and love to you and yours…………,,…………gene
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