Proclaimer Mikeboll64 vs JB2U

[mikeboll64]

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 19 2014,10:07)

Hi Mike: Because he was speaking of himself as a person at that particular point in time, and he did exist in the heart of the Father before the foundation of the world, before anything was created………….

Marty,

You are making great strides lately!

First, you have come to accept that all things were created by God and through Jesus.

And now, you realize that Jesus DID in fact exist before all things were created through him.

I realize that you still have to put your own twist on it, and assume that “created THROUGH him” means something other than the most obvious an sensible meaning.

And you have your own special twist on “he EXISTED before the foundation of the world”.

But you are at least now SAYING the truthful scriptural words. And that, my friend, is a great start.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 19 2014,10:13)

Yes, Mike, I said it was a stupid question…………

Actually, it was an ingenious question, Marty.  

It was designed to make your mind go through the following process:

Q:  Marty, would it make sense to say YOU were created THROUGH your grandchild?

A.  No Mike, not at all.

Q:  And why is that, Marty?

A:  Because it's asinine to think someone could have been created THROUGH someone who hadn't yet even existed!

Q:  Why then is it NOT asinine to think that the heavens and the earth were created THROUGH someone who didn't yet exist?

A: DOH!  

Now you might not be ready yet to verbalize the above discussion with me – opting instead to just ignore my question and blow it off by calling it “stupid”. But regardless, that little bug has been planted in your ear nonetheless.

[Wakeup]

Marty/Gene.

Which one of my answers can be refuted?

The Word/Jesus is the first and the last.(first in everything).
TRUE.
He created man; Let *US* make man in *OUR* image.
His image and God's image. TRUE.
He spoke to Adam,and He spoke to the prophets.
And He spoke to the apostles.
Now is he speaking to US through the Holy Bible. TRUE.
Jesus is that bread that came *DOWN* from heaven. TRUE.
He did not started on earth. TRUE.
I proceeded *OUT* from the Father. TRUE.
I came *FORTH* from the Father. TRUE.
I go *BACK* to the Father.TRUE.
He had glory with God before the world was. TRUE.
He *ALREADY EXISTED* before the world was. TRUE.
He was not HID some where; as you say. TRUE.

Unto us a child is born and his name is everlasting Father
Mighty God,Prince of peace. TRUE.
He is the living Word of God since the beginning of creation.
Since God spoke out. TRUE

He is the FIRST king of salem. TRUE
He was FIRST in jerusalem/mt. Moriah then. TRUE.
He is the FIRST king of peace. TRUE.
He is the FIRST high priest. None before him. TRUE.
He is coming back to take back what belongs to Him.
Not what belongs to someone else. TRUE.

wakeup.

————–

[terraricca]

mARTY

Quote

God did not plan for Adam and Eve to disobey Him, he knew they would, and He knew that all men born of the sperm of man would also sin, but since He knew that this would happen, He had a solution, a future course of action, which was to offer the sacrifice, the lamb of God, His Only Begotten Son, so that anyone who wants to be forgiven can come to Him with a repentant heart, and freely be forgiven.

SO WERE IN SCRIPTURES DOES IT SAY THAT “GOD AS FORESEEN” ANYTHING I KNOW THAT HE PLAN THINGS AND MANY ARE PAST NOW , AND SOME WILL COME TO BE

IF GOD AS FORESEEN WHAT ADAM DID WRONG THEN HE ALSO SEW WHAT CAIN WILL DO WRONG ,AND THEN HE ALSO WOULD SEE THAT WHAT ALL MEN WOULD DO WRONG IN THEIR OWN WAYS  RIGHT

BUT SCRIPTURES SAYS THAT MEN DID THINGS THAT EVEN GOD HIMSELF NEVER WOULD HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT  SO WERE IS GOD “FORESEEN ” NEED,REASON FOR SEEING AHEAD ,

AND WHY DO YOU NEED TO FORESEE WHEN YOU HAVE ALREADY ESTABLISH THE ONLY TWO ROADS POSSIBLE

WE KNOW GOD AS MANY PLANS RIGHT FROM THE BEGINNING ,BUT I CANNOT SEE “FORESEE ” NEEDS DO YOU

[942767]

Hi Pierre:

Quote

Isa 46:9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

Is that good enough for you?

Love in Christ,
Marty

[GeneBalthrop]

Wakeup……..> you are a pure Trinitarian who are preexistence's also, and there is no way around it. You even believe Jesus is A Mighty GOD and He is God the FATHER. But Jesus never said that now did he?, Show us where Jesus ever said he was a GOD or that he was the FATHER. Just one scripture will do, But make sure Jesus is the one saying that himself OK?

Now, if  as you say Jesus is a MIGHTY GOD, then whose MIGHTY GOD is he , certainly not His, because He has a MIGHTY GOD, he worships, and He also Has a FATHER, and He said It's the same  AS OURS. Your statement of Faith has so many holes in it, it would take a completely year to go though all your misconceptions of what those scripture really were saying.

Like for instance,  Jesus saying he was the Bread that came from Heaven was not referencing to his berth at all , but his service, to feed humanity something, that give them life. But you do what all trinitarians do, change it to mean something completely different them what Jesus was even talking about, you switch “subject manor”, to meet your Dogmas. But don't worry that is done commonly here. IMO

peace and love to you and yours…………………………………..gene

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 20 2014,05:11)

You are making great strides lately!   First, you have come to accept that all things were created by God and through Jesus. And now, you realize that Jesus DID in fact exist before all things were created through him.

Mike………Man!,  are you ever delusional, Marty does “NOT” see it that way, are you even reading what he wrote?

Marty is right the word “Dia”, which is translated as “THROUGH”, is better translated as for the purpose of It was God the Fathers Goal all along to, for all humanity. Jesus (A) MAN, fulfilled that Goal. He is the first   from “MANKIND” to achieve what God has in Mind for us all The first human being, from all of God's Physical Creation to enter into the Kingdom of GOD.

He was not “ Morphed from any other past existence at all, but was a Prophesied MAN to come into “existence” at the Proper time and to fulfill God's Will for all of man Kind. Just that simple, nothing complicated about it at all, no  “MORPHING” MYSTERY RELIGIOUS aspects to it at all. IMO

peace and love to you and yours………………………gene

[942767]

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 20 2014,08:36)

Marty/Gene. Which one of my answers can be refuted? The Word/Jesus is the first and the last.(first in everything). TRUE. He created man; Let *US* make man in *OUR* image. His image and God's image. TRUE. He spoke to Adam,and He spoke to the prophets. And He spoke to the apostles. Now is he speaking to US through the Holy Bible. TRUE. Jesus is that bread that came *DOWN* from heaven. TRUE. He did not started on earth. TRUE. I proceeded *OUT* from the Father. TRUE. I came *FORTH* from the Father. TRUE. I go *BACK* to the Father.TRUE. He had glory with God before the world was. TRUE. He *ALREADY EXISTED* before the world was. TRUE. He was not HID some where; as you say. TRUE. Unto us a child is born and his name is everlasting Father Mighty God,Prince of peace.  TRUE. He is the living Word of God since the beginning of creation. Since God spoke out. TRUE He is the FIRST king of salem. TRUE He was FIRST in jerusalem/mt. Moriah then.  TRUE. He is the FIRST king of peace.  TRUE. He is the FIRST high priest. None before him.  TRUE. He is coming back to take back what belongs to Him. Not what belongs to someone else.  TRUE. wakeup. ————–

Hi Wakeup:

I have aleady answered all of those questions.

Except for your statement that Jesus is the first king of Salem, please show me this by the scriptures.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[942767]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 20 2014,05:18)

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 19 2014,10:13) Yes, Mike, I said it was a stupid question………… Actually, it was an ingenious question, Marty.   It was designed to make your mind go through the following process: Q:  Marty, would it make sense to say YOU were created THROUGH your grandchild? A.  No Mike, not at all. Q:  And why is that, Marty? A:  Because it's asinine to think someone could have been created THROUGH someone who hadn't yet even existed! Q:  Why then is it NOT asinine to think that the heavens and the earth were created THROUGH someone who didn't yet exist? A: DOH!   Now you might not be ready yet to verbalize the above discussion with me – opting instead to just ignore my question and blow it off by calling it “stupid”.  But regardless, that little bug has been planted in your ear nonetheless.

Like I said, it is a stupid question, and I might add that it has nothing to do with God knowing that He would send His Only Begotten Son at a precise moment in time. He was conceived of the Holy Ghost, God's Spirit.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[942767]

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 21 2014,06:43)

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 20 2014,08:36) Marty/Gene. Which one of my answers can be refuted? The Word/Jesus is the first and the last.(first in everything). TRUE. He created man; Let *US* make man in *OUR* image. His image and God's image. TRUE. He spoke to Adam,and He spoke to the prophets. And He spoke to the apostles. Now is he speaking to US through the Holy Bible. TRUE. Jesus is that bread that came *DOWN* from heaven. TRUE. He did not started on earth. TRUE. I proceeded *OUT* from the Father. TRUE. I came *FORTH* from the Father. TRUE. I go *BACK* to the Father.TRUE. He had glory with God before the world was. TRUE. He *ALREADY EXISTED* before the world was. TRUE. He was not HID some where; as you say. TRUE. Unto us a child is born and his name is everlasting Father Mighty God,Prince of peace.  TRUE. He is the living Word of God since the beginning of creation. Since God spoke out. TRUE He is the FIRST king of salem. TRUE He was FIRST in jerusalem/mt. Moriah then.  TRUE. He is the FIRST king of peace.  TRUE. He is the FIRST high priest. None before him.  TRUE. He is coming back to take back what belongs to Him. Not what belongs to someone else.  TRUE. wakeup. ————– Hi Wakeup: I have aleady answered all of those questions. Except for your statement that Jesus is the first king of Salem, please show me this by the scriptures. Love in Christ, Marty

Hi Wakeup:

And in addition, you have already seem to know in that you answered your own questions, and some of them are your opinion.

If the scriptures, that I posted in response to many of your questions, then I am wasting my time trying to convince you.

Teach what you want. Both you and I are responsible to God for what we teach.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[terraricca]

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 20 2014,18:51)

Hi Pierre: Quote Isa 46:9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: Is that good enough for you? Love in Christ, Marty

Marty

Isa 46:8 “Remember this, fix it in mind,
take it to heart, you rebels.
Isa 46:9 Remember the former things, those of long ago;
I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and there is none like me.
Isa 46:10 I make known the end from the beginning,
from ancient times, what is still to come.
I say: My purpose will stand,
and I will do all that I please.

those scriptures do not say that God foresee ,WHAT THEY SAYS IS THAT HE TELLS WHAT HE'S GOING TO DO FROM THE BEGINNING AND THAT NO ONE CAN STOP HIM OF DOING IT ,

SO MY QUESTIONS STAND UNANSWERED

[mikeboll64]

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 20 2014,13:51)

Like I said, it is a stupid question……….

But you can't deny that it got you thinking, “Hmmmm…….. I guess it IS a little weird to think one person could have been created THROUGH another person who has yet to even exist.”

You KNOW it would be ludicrous to say YOU were created THROUGH your own grandchild……. because your grandchild didn't yet exist when you were created – and it would be crazy to think something was created THROUGH an entity that didn't yet exist.

You KNOW these things, Marty. Yet, for your own personal reasons, you ignore them and trick yourself into believing that it makes perfect sense that the universe WAS created through an entity that didn't yet exist.

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 21 2014,08:57)

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 20 2014,18:51) Hi Pierre: Quote Isa 46:9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: Is that good enough for you? Love in Christ, Marty Marty Isa 46:8 “Remember this, fix it in mind, take it to heart, you rebels. Isa 46:9 Remember the former things, those of long ago; I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me. Isa 46:10 I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say: My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please. those scriptures do not say that God foresee ,WHAT THEY  SAYS IS THAT HE TELLS WHAT HE'S  GOING TO DO FROM THE BEGINNING AND THAT NO ONE CAN STOP HIM OF DOING IT , SO MY QUESTIONS STAND UNANSWERED

Terricca……… Are you serious?, how could God MAKE KNOWN if he did not “ALREADY KNOW” it?  common sense 101

Peace and love……………………………gene

[Wakeup]

Gene b.

Here is a scripture to support your claim.

John 6:64 But there are some of you that believe not.
***For Jesus knew from the beginning***
who they were that believed not, and who should betray
him.

wakeup.

[terraricca]

Marty

Quote

Terricca……… Are you serious?, how could God MAKE KNOWN if he did not “ALREADY KNOW” it? common sense 101

well in that case we all can foresee of foreseen ,including God , but this is not what we talking about ; common 101 or 1001 no matter

[GeneBalthrop]

Terricca……….That was me that said that not Marty, and Your response makes no sense at all Pierre. While we can foresee a Storm coming because of  satellite imagery, we can not tell it's  end from it's beginning, we can only speculate, or we would all be MILLIONAIRES if we absolute knew the end from the beginning of things. God can because He causes the beginning, and therefore he knows the end before it ever happens.

The reason you don't want to believe that is because you want your salvation to be based on you and not God. you want it to be by your own “so-called” FREEWILL Choices, that saves you, which leaves God out of your salvation process. You simply do not see the “SOVEREIGNTY” of God the FATHER in “ALL” things, God calls his elect and draws them to him, by his spirit and brings them to Christ Jesus. IMO

peace and love to you and yours…………………………gene

[terraricca]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 22 2014,21:10)

Terricca……….That was me that said that not Marty, and Your response makes no sense at all Pierre. While we can foresee a Storm coming because of  satellite imagery, we can not tell it's  end from it's beginning, we can only speculate, or we would all be MILLIONAIRES if we absolute knew the end from the beginning of things. God can because He causes the beginning, and therefore he knows the end before it ever happens. The reason you don't want to believe that is because you want your salvation to be based on you and not God. you want it to be by your own “so-called” FREEWILL Choices, that saves you, which leaves God out of your salvation process. You simply do not see the “SOVEREIGNTY” of God the FATHER in “ALL” things, God calls his elect and draws them to him, by his spirit and brings them to Christ Jesus. IMO peace and love to you and yours…………………………gene

g

God does not need to foreseen anything HE AS THE POWERS TO GO LEFT RIGHT,DOWN,OR UP,WITH NO ONE TO STOP HIM 'THIS IS SAID THROUGHOUT THE SCRIPTURES

BUT WE NEVER READ THAT GOD FORESEE (N) YOU MAKE IT SOUND LIKE MEN ARE RULING ANYTHING ,ALL MEN ARE BUT GRASS A GRAIN OF SAND ,IN OTHER WORDS NOTHING BUT WIND

[Wakeup]

The fact that God can make things happen according to his plan. He can also see the end.

wakeup.

[terraricca]

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 23 2014,01:59)

The fact that God can make things happen according to his plan. He can also see the end. wakeup.

w

agreed,but not through foreseen things THROUGH HIS POWER

[mikeboll64]

Pierre,

You have lost me on this one. If God can tell the end from the beginning, then God must be able to FORESEE that end – in order to tell it to us, right?

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