- This topic has 272 replies, 7 voices, and was last updated 4 years, 10 months ago by
.
- Posts
t8,
Revelation 5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
A HUMAN of the ROOT of DAVID was WORTHY BECAUSE HE PREVAILED, NOT because he pre-existed as a spirit son of God, but BECAUSE he as a man who could do nothing of himself, had been begotten by God, having God’s FULL influence upon him, receiving God’s Spirit without measure, a calling to righteousness where he would not fail in obedience. HE PREVAILED against all temptation because God was directing all his ways. He was worthy to open the book.
Hi t8,
I REALLY DON’T LIKE how you refer to certain verses I use as pets, as none of the less they ARE God’s WORD. Those are the very verses you seem to like to sweep under the rug, you never speak of them, but I in turn USE them AS APPLICABLE TO ALL SCRIPTURE.
and let’s get one thing PERFECTLY CLEAR hear, as it’s slander to say I use just certain verses, I USE ENTIRE CHAPTERS and MULTIPLE ONE’S to directly SUPPORT that which I say, NOT ONLY THAT but I use them t8 to show how my understanding of another passage is founded upon those CHAPTERS.
What you do time and time again is not address precisely the CONTENT of what I say and show how it is in error, all you do is make accusations saying I am blind, I am dishonest, I distract.
You don’t take my posts and address the scriptures given thereof, instead you revert to mere character slander. That says alot!!’
Hi t8,
It’s not a distraction but the TRUTH when I say I believe in the gospel presented,
Acts 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: 23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: 24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it. 25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved: 26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope: 27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. 28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance. 29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. 30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. 34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool. 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
t8, God made a MAN both Lord and Christ, not because he preexisted but because he received the promise of God’s Spirit. The one that sits at God’s right hand IS the Son of Man.
Luke 22:69 Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand of the power of God.
Acts 7:55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, 56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.
This is what I believe, through a man, the seed of David I have a savior, not because he pre-existed, but because God directed all this man’s ways having called him to righteousness, where God held his hand and kept him from failing against temptation, thus able to be obedient going to the cross, I have my sins forgiven.
Acts 13:22 And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will. 23 Of this man’s seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus: 24 When John had first preached before his coming the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel. 25 And as John fulfilled his course, he said, Whom think ye that I am? I am not he. But, behold, there cometh one after me, whose shoes of his feet I am not worthy to loose. 26 Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent. 27 For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him. 28 And though they found no cause of death in him, yet desired they Pilate that he should be slain. 29 And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre. 30 But God raised him from the dead: 31 And he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are his witnesses unto the people. 32 And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers, 33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. 34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David. 35 Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. 36 For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption: 37 But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption. 38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: 39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses. 40 Beware therefore, lest that come upon you, which is spoken of in the prophets;
I REALLY DON’T LIKE how you refer to certain verses I use as pets, as none of the less they ARE God’s WORD. Those are the very verses you seem to like to sweep under the rug, you never speak of them, but I in turn USE them AS APPLICABLE TO ALL SCRIPTURE.
Pet scriptures that are used to disprove other scriptures that are not pets of yours. But yes I agree, they are all scripture, but I’m not the one disproving scripture with scripture. I believe all of it and when you quote scriptures I am not the one throwing a hissy fit. I do not attack it like you guys do when we simply speak truth by saying what Jesus said, ‘before Abraham I am’. I just believe it, you and Gene react to it.
I also believe God declared the end from the beginning. I embrace all scripture. I’m not the one promoting pet scriptures and attacking others.
You need to work on yourself, not me.
You don’t take my posts and address the scriptures given thereof, instead you revert to mere character slander. That says alot!!’
I merely voice pure observation. It’s what I see you guys doing. If it is offensive, then the best thing to do would be to stop doing that thing we observe right? Otherwise if you believe it to be right, then being offended is not how you would react right? You should simply admit this is what you do and you are fine with it. If you are not fine with it, then stop and it’s fixed.
Hi t8,
Let us apply the CONTEXT given to us OF verse 56, to that OF 58. Do you really think t8 that which is said in verse 56 DOES NOT APPLY to that of 58?
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see MY DAY and he saw it, and was glad.
Abraham in his day was seeing his future seed bringing forth blessings to all nations. This verse is NOT about Jesus existing in Abraham’s day, it is about Abraham being given prophecy of the Gospel and him believing in it.
Galatians 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. 9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
Genesis 18:18 Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?
Acts 3:25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
It is TRUE that the PROPHECY of the Gospel that Abraham knew, was that of a man of his seed coming forth to be MADE perfect and BECOME our source, Jews and Gentiles alike, of eternal life (Hebrews 5:9).
THE CONTEXT of Jesus’s words in verse 58 comes DIRECTLY from that of verse 56. How anyone would read verse 58 and not think to apply verse 56 is beyond me.
According to God’s WORD, ACCORDING to PROPHECY, Abraham would see eternal life, he died believing in the Gospel, seeing his own resurrection from the dead. It is TRUE that Abraham in seeing the Gospel saw his own seed BEFORE him, that Jesus IS BEFORE Abraham, before him in eternal life and before him in rank, directly according to God’s WORD from Isaiah 7 and Psalms 8.
JESUS in speaking verse 58 was NOT IGNORANT of the Gospel concerning him that God gave to Abraham. In verse 56 Jesus spoke of Abraham knowing that very Gospel. Jesus was declaring the truth of the Gospel in verse 58, that which is OF prophecy that Abraham received, that Jesus is BEFORE Abraham, BEFORE him IN being the firstborn of the dead, and BEFORE him likewise IN being GIVEN dominion overall.
Jodi……very well put, just as expressed in our scriptures, now lets see if any of them can get it.
Peace and love to you and yours. ………gene
Good Morning All,
Isaiah 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else. 19 I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the LORD speak righteousness, I declare things that are right.
Psalms 22:23 Ye that fear the LORD, praise him; all ye the seed of Jacob, glorify him; and fear him, all ye the seed of Israel.
Isaiah 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: 2 And the Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and might, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; 3 And shall MAKE him of quick understanding IN THE FEAR OF the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: 4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
Isaiah 41:1 Keep silence before me, O islands; and let the people renew their strength: let them come near; then let them speak: let us come near together to judgment. 2 Who raised up the righteous MAN from the east, called him to his foot, gave the nations before him, and made him rule over kings? he gave them as the dust to his sword, and as driven stubble to his bow. 3 He pursued them, and passed safely; even by the way that he had not gone with his feet. 4 Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he.
Isaiah 45:12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded. 13 I have raised him up in righteousness, and I will direct all his ways: he shall build my city, and he shall let go my captives, not for price nor reward, saith the LORD of hosts.
Psalms 89:20 I have found David my servant; with my holy oil have I anointed him: 21 With whom my hand shall be established: mine arm also shall strengthen him. 22 The enemy shall not exact upon him; nor the son of wickedness afflict him. 23 And I will beat down his foes before his face, and plague them that hate him. 24 But my faithfulness and my mercy shall be with him: and in my name shall his horn be exalted. 25 I will set his hand also in the sea, and his right hand in the rivers. 26 He shall cry unto me, Thou art my father, my God, and the rock of my salvation. 27 Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. 28 My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him.
Acts 17:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. 34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David. 35 Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. 36 For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption: 37 But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption. 38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: 39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
Luke 1:30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
READ AGAIN,
Isaiah 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else. 19 I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the LORD speak righteousness, I declare things that are right.
AND, 23 I have sworn by myself, the WORD is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
Matthew 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
Matthew 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
John 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them,When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I AM he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught ME, I speak these things.
Luke 24:25 Then he said unto them,O fools, and slow of heart to believe ALL THAT THE PROPHETS HAVE SPOKEN: 26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? 27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
Mark 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and GLORY.
Psalms 8:3 When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained; 4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? 5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with GLORY and honor. 6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet: 7 All sheep and oxen, yea, and the beasts of the field; 8 The fowl of the air, and the fish of the sea, and whatsoever passeth through the paths of the seas. 9 O LORD our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth!
1 Corinthians 15:21 For since by man came death, by MAN came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every MAN in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
Revelation 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I AM the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
Acts 13:22 And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will. 23 Of this man’s seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:
John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I AM the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in ME, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Acts 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: 23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: 24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
Isaiah 46:9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, 10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: 11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.
Read Again,
Isaiah 41:1 Keep silence before me, O islands; and let the people renew their strength: let them come near; then let them speak: let us come near together to judgment. 2 Who raised up the righteous MAN from the east, called him to his foot, gave the nations before him, and made him rule over kings? he gave them as the dust to his sword, and as driven stubble to his bow. 3 He pursued them, and passed safely; even by the way that he had not gone with his feet. 4 Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he.
John 8:56:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
58 Jesus said unto them,Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM.
WHO HAS UNDERSTANDING? WHO HEARS GOD’S WORD, the END that GOD declared FROM the beginning? THE WORD of the END is given to you, Jesus of Nazareth had God’s Spirit rest upon him, AN ANOINTING so that he could be sent out to PREACH that WORD of the END that was declared FROM the beginning to you.
GOD’S WORD PRE-EXISTED, His WORD of ETERNAL LIFE was PROMISED before the WORLD WAS. ALSO GOD’S WORD before the world was we read in Acts, “23 Of this man’s seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:
Titus 1:1 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God’s elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness; 2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began; 3 But hath in due times manifested HIS WORD through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour;
THE WORD from the beginning is GOD speaking of a MAN who HE would be mindful of and visit, CROWN him with GLORY and Honor, give HIM -THIS MAN of David’s seed DOMINION OVERALL. By this MAN we are said to have LIFE, therefore by such ALL THINGS CONSIST IN THIS MAN.
All things consist in a MAN who could do nothing of himself but did all things through God DIRECTING ALL his WAYS, having been CALLED to RIGHTEOUSNESS as was PROMISED. That PROMISE was GOD’S WORD FROM the BEGINNING.
WHEN GOD’S WORD in the beginning was, “let there be light” and “there was light”, HE KNEW of ANOTHER LIGHT, the seed of Jesse who He would CALL to righteousness for to be a LIGHT. God made all things BY REASON OF and FOR THIS LIGHT.
Genesis 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
Isaiah 9:2 The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light: they that dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined. 3 Thou hast multiplied the nation, and not increased the joy: they joy before thee according to the joy in harvest, and as men rejoice when they divide the spoil. 4 For thou hast broken the yoke of his burden, and the staff of his shoulder, the rod of his oppressor, as in the day of Midian.
Isaiah 42:6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; 7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. 8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.
Matthew 4:14 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, 15 The land of Zabulon, and the land of Nephthalim, by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles; 16 The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up. 17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say,Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
TO ALL, the LIGHT the people beheld that was sent out to preach, was not the glory of a pre-existing spirit morphed into a man, it was the glory of a man who God rested His Spirit upon without measure, AN ANOINTING, where he was SENT out for to be a LIGHT, having been called to righteousness with God holding his hand and keeping him by directing all his ways.
THE END declared from the beginning, GOD’S WORD from the beginning is the ROOT and OFFSPRING of DAVID returning in POWER and GLORY to set up an eternal kingdom and destroy the last enemy, death. This man when going to the cross ASKED GOD for this GLORY that was OF GOD from the beginning. Psalms 8 was GOD’S WORD from the beginning.
It is a FACT that the man JESUS was IN God’s WORD from the beginning. Before Abraham even existed, JESUS had been appointed by God to be a LIGHT unto the world, to be firstborn of the dead with eternal life and have dominion overall and destroy the last enemy. Psalms 8 tells you it is a MAN that RECEIVES glory and dominion, not a spirit son going back to have glory and dominion. Why when Jesus was raised from the dead he taught of himself ACCORDING to what the prophets wrote about him, why he declared in Revelation that he IS the root and offspring of David, why he is said to be the Son of Man returning in glory, why upon his resurrection we are told he RECEIVED the promised Holy Spirit and of the mercies God had promised to David. Jesus never was, nor did he go back to being a spirit son upon his resurrection, it is a biblical FACT that Jesus upon his resurrection received GOD’S WORD that GOD had declared from the beginning.
Hi Jodi,
YOU” WHO HAS UNDERSTANDING? WHO HEARS GOD’S WORD, the END that GOD declared FROM the beginning? THE WORD of the END is given to you, Jesus of Nazareth had
God’s Spirit rest upon him,
John1:26
John answered them, saying: I baptize with water:
but there hath stood one in the midst of you, whom you know not.
27The same is he that shall come after me,
who is preferred before me:
the latchet of whose shoe I am not worthy to loose.
28These things were done in Bethania, beyond the Jordan, where John was baptizing.29The next day, John saw Jesus coming to him; and he saith: Behold the Lamb of God. Behold him who taketh away the sin of the world. 30This is he of whom I said:
After me there cometh a man,
who is preferred before me:( BEFORE MY EXISTENCE)
because he was before me. (was 1510. eimi: EXISTED BEFORE ME)
31And I knew him not: ( IN HEAVEN FROM WHERE I CAME)
but that he may be made
manifest in Israel, (WHO ACTUALLY IN THE TRUTH
JESUS WAS)
therefore am I come baptizing with water.
32And John gave testimony, saying:
I saw the Spirit coming down, as a dove from heaven;
and he
(as a dove)
remained upon him. (THE DOVE FOR A WHILE, AND THEN
FLEW AWAY BACK FOR SURE)
Jodi, ANSWER:
since according to you,
WHEN THE DOVE CAME DOWN AND REMAINED ON JESUS, DEFINITELY FOR A WHILE AND THEN LEFT JESUS,
WAS THE PROOF FOR YOU THAT, PRECISELY IN THAT MOMENT IN TIME,
THE SPIRIT CAME UPON AND REMAINED ON JESUS,
DOES THAT MEANS ALSO, THAT
WHEN THE DOVE PRECISELY IN THAT MOMENT IN TIME THAT LEFT JESUS,
THE SPIRIT ALSO LEFT JESUS?
IF NOT,
HOW IN YOUR
CARNAL-MINDED INTELLIGENCE
DID YOU CONCLUDED THAT
THE SPIRIT CAME ON JESUS
PRECISELY ONLY WHEN THE DOVE CAME ON JESUS?
WHEN YOU YOURSELF DECLARED
THAT YOU BELIEVE SCRIPTURE
ONLY AS IT IS WRITTEN
SOMETHING WHICH IT IS NOT WRITTEN WITH CLARITY THAT
THE SPIRIT CAME AND REMAINED ON JESUS
ONLY IN THAT MOMENT IN TIME
THE DOVE CAME ON JESUS?
NOW READ HEREUNDER WHAT IS WRITTEN IN CLARITY!
33And I knew him not:
but he ( GOD ALMIGHTY)
who sent me to baptize with water said to me:
He upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending and remaining (DEFINITELY
AS A DOVE, AND ALSO A SIGN.)
upon him,
he it is that baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
AS CLEAR AS CRYSTAL:
THE LANDING OF THE DOVE ON JESUS IT WAS SIMPLY
A SIGN
FOR ALL THOSE PRESENT TO BE AWARE AND WITNESS
THAT JESUS IS THE ONE WHO
baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
34And I saw: and I gave
TESTIMONY
that this is the Son of God.
Matthew 3:13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to the Jordan, unto John, to be baptized by him. 14But John stayed him, saying:
I ought to be baptized by thee, ( BEFORE THE DOVE DESCENDED ON JESUS, JOHN ALREADY AWARE WHO JESUS WAS)
and comest thou to me?
15And Jesus answering, said to him:
Suffer it to be so now. (FOR THE SAKE OF TRUTH AND JUSTICE)
so it becometh us (YOU, PREEXISTED AS THE ANGEL OF MY FATHER, SENT BY MY FATHER FROM HEAVEN, AND ME THE WORD OF MY FATHER PREEXISTED AS A SPIRIT, SENT FORTH OUT OF MY FATHER, WAS MADE FLESH) to fulfill all justice.
John 17:8……and have known in very deed that ( PREEXISTED)
I CAME OUT FROM THEE: and they have believed that
THOU DIDST SEND ME.
John16:27 For the Father himself loveth you, because you have loved me and have
BELIEVED THAT I CAME OUT FROM GOD.
28 I CAME FORTH FROM MY FATHER……and am come into the world: again I leave the world and I go to the Father.
Then he suffered him.
YOU:AN ANOINTING so that he (CAME FORTH OUT FROM THE FATHER: John16:27 ) could be sent out to PREACH that WORD of the END that was declared FROM the beginning to you.
GOD’S WORD PRE-EXISTED, (JESUS, THE SON OF MAN TO BE, AS A SPIRIT)
His WORD of ETERNAL LIFE (IN JESUS, THE SON OF MAN TO BE, AS A SPIRIT)
was PROMISED before the WORLD WAS. ALSO GOD’S WORD(IN JESUS, THE SON OF MAN TO BE, AS A SPIRIT) before the world was we read in Acts, “23 Of this man’s (DAVID’S) seed ( “THE WORD” JESUS, THE SON OF MAN TO BE, PREEXISTED AS A SPIRIT) hath God according to his promise (IN ISAAC’S SEED “THE WORD” JESUS, THE SON OF MAN TO BE, PREEXISTED AS A SPIRIT) raised unto Israel a Saviour,( THE MAN)
Jesus:
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Hi Carmel,
YOU:
WHEN THE DOVE PRECISELY IN THAT MOMENT IN TIME THAT LEFT JESUS,
<h2>THE SPIRIT ALSO LEFT JESUS?ME:
Matthew 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
Mark 1:10 And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:
John 1:32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
The Spirit descended upon Jesus LIKE a dove, there was NO ACTUAL DOVE Carmel.
This is getting so ridiculous as you cannot keep things straight at all, your comprehension is not sound but delusional.
John 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
HE, the one who had the Spirit descend and REMAIN upon him Is HE that baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
Carmel, Jesus says he could do nothing of himself, he did not follow his own will, he did not speak his own words.
Carmel, Jesus quotes ISAIAH 61 concerning himself,
18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
Carmel, the people beheld the glory of the man Jesus ACCORDING to Isaiah 11, 42, 45, and 61, who God said in Isaiah 42, it was glory that God would not give to any other, a man who had God Spirit descend and REMAIN upon him. This glory is received by the son of Jesse, this glory is received by one who DID NOT CREATE heaven and earth but was a man OF creation according to DIRECT SCRIPTURE.
Hi Carmel,
John is of prophecy you think he was IGNORANT to prophecy concerning him and Jesus, who would according to prophecy come after him but be before him in the resurrection and in rank?
You want to tell me there is NO WORD in John 1 that is OF prophecy?
You want to tell me that John speaks NOT OF God’s WORD???
John most certainly speaks according to God’s WORD, God’s prior word made true as John was a witness to declare it.
Jesus is the LIGHT, that is directly of Isaiah 42, God’s WORD made true in the flesh of Jesus by God’s Spirit coming to rest upon him and REMAIN. John’s words about Jesus in chapter 1 have nothing to do with pre-existing and Jesus creating the world, but have everything to do with God’s WORD of prophecy that was God’s promise before the world was, which was of a man that God would make into his own son, call him to righteousness for to be a LIGHT.
Jodi……they simply are ignorant of the truth and like all false teachers, are blind t o the real truth. They will reject any scripture that show their ignorance of the truth. This is how we know they are not of God, or they could easely see exactly what we are saying.
Peace and love to you and yours. …………gene
Hi Gene,
So true, they read passages in error as they deny the exact perspective God established for us to read passages in. They do not apply prophecy, they do not apply God’s promises to the NT, and they want us to treat the writers of the NT as if they were ignorant of God’s prophecies and promises.
To All,
Hebrews 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, through whom also he made the worlds; 3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; 4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
Hebrews 1 is of Isaiah 11, 42, 45, 53, 61, 1 Chronicles 17, Psalm 2, 8, 89.
John 3:4 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. 35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
1 Chronicles 17:11 And it shall come to pass, when thy days be expired that thou must go to be with thy fathers, that I will raise up thy seed after thee, which shall be of thy sons; and I will establish his kingdom. 12 He shall build me an house, and I will establish his throne for ever. 13 I will be his father, and he shall be my son: and I will not take my mercy away from him, as I took it from him that was before thee:
Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my Spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. 2 He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street. 3 A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth. 4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law. 5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein: 6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; 7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. 8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.
Luke 9:26 For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father’s, and of the holy angels.
Psalms 2:6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. 7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. 8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
You people cannot take God’s WORD and put simple two and two together.
JESUS being called God’s only begotten Son has NOTHING to do with him pre-existing, and everything to do with PROPHECY fulfilled in him, God’s WORD promised to David and Isaiah being made true in the man of David’s seed Jesus of Nazareth.
the ONLY man who received of God’s glory as was promised, because he is the only man called to righteousness having God direct all his ways, as was promised, because he is the only man who received of God’s Spirit not by measure to SPEAK and then fulfill God’s WORD that he spoke, as was promised.
JESUS COULD do nothing of himself, he is seen as God’s Son because of the powers of the Spirit that were given to him upon his baptism.
Matthew 4:3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
John 1:32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him. 33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost. 34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God….49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel. 50 Jesus answered and said unto him,Because I said unto thee, I saw thee under the fig tree, believest thou? thou shalt see greater things than these. 51 And he saith unto him,Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.
Prophecy was of a man who God would put angels in charge over him. Prophecy was of a man who God would make into His own Son and make him an eternal king over the throne of his father David. The people called him God’s Son because they saw him as the man of prophecy fulfilled.
John says that the Son is he who God had said would have the Spirit abode upon him. Jesus being God’s Son has everything to do with prophecy NOTHING to do with pre-existing.
The people beheld the glory of the man performing signs and miracles and speaking God’s word with authority, he is seen as God’s Son because of the Spirit that came to abode upon him, not because he pre-existed.
Jesus is full of grace and truth ACCORDING to God’s WORD of Isaiah 11, Jesus is God’s only begotten Son ACCORDING to God’s WORD of Psalms 2.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Acts 10:37 That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached; 38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
THE WORD that we are to believe is NOT that Jesus pre-existed as the WORD, but that the man JESUS IS God’s WORD fulfilled.
Hi Carmel,
I am waiting to hear your response to the fact that the Spirit descended and remained upon Jesus. There was NO DOVE, the Spirit descended like a dove.
I am waiting to hear your response to the fact that in Genesis Abram was being told that his heir was not going to be the current steward of his house Eliezer, God promised him that he would indeed have a son and that son would be his heir.
YOU: The Spirit descended upon Jesus LIKE a dove, there was NO ACTUAL DOVE Carmel.
DRB VERSION:
John1:1And I knew him not: but that he may be made manifest in Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water. 32And John gave testimony, saying:
I saw the Spirit coming down,
as a dove from heaven;
and he remained upon him.
Matthew 3:16And Jesus being baptized, forthwith came out of the water: and lo, the heavens were opened to him:
and he saw the Spirit of God descending
as a dove,
and coming upon him. 17And behold a voice from heaven saying: This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Jodi where the hell ARE YOU GOING WITH YOUR CARNAL-MINDED REASONING?
AS FAR AS I KNOW IN RELATION TO SCRIPTURE
YOU BELIEVE AND EXERCISE ONLY WHAT IS WRITTEN!
WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO YOU? IF I AM UNDERSTANDING WELL,
YOU ARE NOT READY TO ACCEPT,
what you’ve been screaming THROUGHOUT your posts.And that is
THE PRESENCE OF THE DOVE ON JESUS BAPTISM!Something that ACTUALLY IS WRITTEN ON
BLACK AND WHITE?ALSO, YOU ARE COMPLETELY REJECTING WHAT JESUS HIMSELF ASSERTED THAT
THE JEWS BELIEVE AND ACCEPT AS TRUTH ONLY WHAT IS ASSERTED
THROUGH SIGNS? READ:
Matthew 16:4 And there came to him the Pharisees and Sadducees tempting: and they asked him
to shew them a sign from heaven.
2But he answered and said to them: When it is evening, you say, It will be fair weather, for the sky is red. 3And in the morning: Today there will be a storm, for the sky is red and lowering. You know then how to discern the face of the sky: andcan you not know the signs of the times? 4A wicked and adulterous generation
seeketh after a sign: and a sign shall not be given it,
but the sign of Jonas the prophet.
And he left them, and went away.
In Hebrew, Jonah (יוֹנָה) means dove. The “sign of Jonas” in Matthew 16:1–4 is related to the “sign of the dove”.
Jodi, It would be very interesting TO HEAR FROM YOU
WHAT ACTUALLY IS THE SIGNIFICANCE OF
JESUS’ BAPTISM.
Considering the fact that Jesus never required baptism as such!
The fact that John confirmed this in his words precisely before he baptized Jesus in
Matthew 3:14 : But John stayed him, saying:
I ought to be baptized by thee, and comest thou to me?
Jodi, Jesus baptism was the introduction of the redeemer particularly to
THE JEWS. But most important the presence of
“THE WORD” Jesus, the Son of Man
A DIVINE being in Israel. (LUCIFER’S SPIRIT, the lost sheep)
THE BEGINNING.
WHO REJECTED PRECISELY GOD IN
“THE WORD” Jesus to be, PREEXISTED as a spirit, ETERNAL LIFE, his life source IN HIS HEART, who believed in his autonomy and rebelled. Pinpointed out in
John 8:23 And he said to them: You are from beneath: I am from above. You are of this world:
I am not of this world.
24Therefore I said to you that you shall die
IN YOUR SINS.( PLURAL IN THEIR PRESENT SINS AS MEN)
For if you believe not that
I am he,
( “THE WORD” Jesus preexisted as a spirit, ORIGINALLY IN THEIR HEART and in LUCIFER’S AS ANGELS WHOM THEY IGNORED AND REBELLED, THE FACT THAT HE SAID:)
you shall die
IN YOUR SIN. ( SINGULAR, WHEN THEY REBELLED)
25They said therefore to him:
Who art thou? Jesus said to them:
The beginning, (IN LUCIFER and eventually in his angels)
who also speak unto you.( FOR NO USE EVEN AS MEN, WITH A HEART OF STONE)
Thus It was vital for God to demonstrate
the truth
not in Jesus only as the Messiah, but also in the divinity as a whole in order to manifest and proclaim that redemption is an entirely
DIVINE INTERVENTION. Nothing of earth,
SOMETHING THAT SATAN TOOK FOR GRANTED THAT IT’S NOT POSSIBLE FOR GOD
TO BECOME MAN IN FLESH AND BLOOD once it is contaminated with Satan’s spirit,
AND IN THE SAME TIME
ALL HEAVENLY!
FURNISHED BY THE FATHER! WELL CLEAR AGAIN IN
John 8:23 And he said to them: You are from beneath:
I am from above.
You are of this world:
I am not of this world.
Despite Jesus became in all things
LIKE
His brethren except sin,
( nothing authentic, but Jesus on his resurrection made humanity AUTHENTIC WITH HIM, DIVINE!)
The Jews required signs especially regarding the Messiah.
Since the Messiah was the carrier of the fullness of the Godhead . Thus He had to be introduced and proclaimed on earth definitely by the fullness of the deity itself, AS SOLID PROOF THAT
Jesus was the embodiment of the deity in FLESH.
“THE WORD” MADE FLESH.
ORIGINALLY IN LUCIFER, ISRAEL IN THE REDEMPTION PROCESS!
Now as soon as Jesus came out of the water,
It was vital for the Holy Ghost to appear
PHYSICALLY in a dove,
since both the Father in His voice, and “THE WORD” Jesus, the Son of Man in His presence were present physically.
It showed all three ASPECTS of the Christian Trinity precisely unified as
ONE GOD in action: God the Father (the voice speaking from heaven), “THE WORD” Jesus the Son of Man (the person rising up out of the water), and the Holy Spirit (the dove).
1John 5:7-8
Jesus coming out of the water,
It’s not only demonstrates the loving union of the three distinct aspects of God, but also
the LOVING JUSTICE and PEACE between God and Humanity,
OFFICIALLY MANIFESTED ALL in
JESUS’ COMING OUT OF THE WATER
JUSTIFIED AS TRUTH.
THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE BAPTISED AND PURIFIED
BY THE HOLY GHOST AND FIRE OFFICIALLY IN
THE EMBODIMENT OF
THE SON OF MAN JESUS.
Mentioned by John in
Luke 3:16 John answered, saying unto all: I indeed baptize you with water: but there shall come one mightier than I, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to loose.
He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire;
SOMETHING WHICH JESUS ACCOMPLISHED
ON HIS BAPTISM!
SATAN IN THAT MOMENT IN TIME JESUS GOING DOWN INTO THE WATER, WAS CAST DOWN AND LOCKED INTO HELLFIRE. mentioned hereunder
17Whose fan is in his hand: and he will purge his floor and will gather the wheat into his barn: but the chaff (SATAN) he will burn with unquenchable fire.
Time ran out!
More to come
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Carmel…..Do you actually believe the Spirit of God is a actual Dove? Why do no one mention seeing a Dove sitting on Jesus’ head?
John never said the spirit was an actual dove, he said he saw the “spirit” decent “like” or as , a Dove. Another words it slowed and lighted on him and remained on him. Man how can you believe the Spirit is an actual DOVE?
Peace and love to you and yours. ………gene
Hi Carmel,
Gene said it right, and as I said before things just getting more bizarre with you.
The Spirit descended upon Jesus “LIKE” a dove, so now imagine a dove descending from the sky, and now think about how the Spirit of God descended upon Jesus in a SIMILAR FASHION to that of a dove descending. There is NO actual DOVE.
Then it seems at this point pertinent for you to know that the Spirit of God that descended upon Jesus that it then did REMAIN UPON him for a reason, as where by it he is said to be ANOINTED, where by it he was then SENT for to be a LIGHT, where by it he was able to PREACH, where by it he was able to DELIVER CAPTIVES, and yes where by it he is the fulfillment of God’s word unto David, as he became God’s Son on that day. The very reason why on that day God declared him, Jesus of Nazareth, to be His Son.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
