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Quote I do not believe that Satan is a super-natural being cast out of heaven. I believe that you did a good job of showing this by the scriptures. 94, I'm wondering who you think “the one called Devil and Satan” is, who was cast out of heaven, if not some “super-natural being” given that has enough power to mislead the entire earth?
REVELATION 12:9
“So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him.”fact:
The word rendered “Adam” is the same word as “man.” Because Adam was the first man, he was basically called “man” (adam)
(The Hebrew word occurs as “man,” “mankind,” or “earthling man” over 560 times in the Scriptures and is applied to individuals and mankind in general…and to Adam.)Because the spirit creature who deceived Eve is the arch opposer/resister (satan) of God, he was called “Satan”
Because Adam was a man in a very special sence: first man, he was called “man” (Adam)
Because Satan was an opposer/resister (satan) in a very special sense (the chief opposer) he was called Satan.Quote (david @ Jan. 09 2009,16:59) Quote I do not believe that Satan is a super-natural being cast out of heaven. I believe that you did a good job of showing this by the scriptures. 94, I'm wondering who you think “the one called Devil and Satan” is, who was cast out of heaven, if not some “super-natural being” given that has enough power to mislead the entire earth?
REVELATION 12:9
“So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him.”
Hi David:Quote Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: This is satan:
Quote the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience The powers and principalities are those who have this spirit and are in authority in the world. The dragon is said to have seven heads and ten horns. And the Anti-Christ is to come from one of these seven horns.
And there is false religion:
Quote Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. These will cause people to be deceived through their false message, and consequently, they will not be saved. It is that lying spirit that causes people to be deceived.
Quote Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by [the means of] those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.The judgment given to the serpent by God in Genesis was:
Quote Gen 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou [art] cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.The emnity between “thee” (the lying spirit or the tempter) and thy seed those who obey you and the seed of the woman (Christ).
There are many different serpents in the earth crawling on their belly, but none can go around tempting people to disobey God. However,
Quote Pro 1:10 My son, if sinners entice thee, consent thou not Quote Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 94, I'm wondering who you think “the one called Devil and Satan” is, who was cast out of heaven, if not some “super-natural being” given that has enough power to mislead the entire earth?
REVELATION 12:9
“So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him.”94, you said: “I do not believe that Satan is a super-natural being cast out of heaven.”
It appears from this scripture that the “one” who is the original serpent (the one behind the puppetry of the snake; unless you think the snake itself was actually speaking) is hurled down to the earth (with his angels.)
I'm wondering how you interpret or understand that scripture.
Quote (david @ Jan. 10 2009,12:30) 94, I'm wondering who you think “the one called Devil and Satan” is, who was cast out of heaven, if not some “super-natural being” given that has enough power to mislead the entire earth? REVELATION 12:9
“So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him.”94, you said: “I do not believe that Satan is a super-natural being cast out of heaven.”
It appears from this scripture that the “one” who is the original serpent (the one behind the puppetry of the snake; unless you think the snake itself was actually speaking) is hurled down to the earth (with his angels.)
I'm wondering how you interpret or understand that scripture.
Hi David:I believe that I have already answered that question.
God made man with a free will and apparently, also the serpent that was in the Garden of Eden had a free will and the serpent had no extra-ordinary powers and yet he managed to deceive Eve by lying to her.
“Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
Gen 3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
Gen 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which [is] in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.”It is that same spirit that has entered into the world through Adam and Eve that is the deceiver through men who obey that spirit.
No, I don't see this dragon or serpent in Revelation 12 to be some super-natural being.
The other Spirit that is in the earth and was in the Garden of Eden also is the Spirit of truth that proceeds from God, the Father.
Quote 1Jo 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.Quote 1Jo 2:16 For all that [is] in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. God Bless
David ………What if the snake was neither , what if it was the lustful nature of man, what if it was just a propensity of Man himself. A desire to have more just a inordinate desire for things. You don't believe God's Kingdom is one you can't see , but you believe their is a super-natural being cast out of Heaven who can rule here one earth without being seen. How do you figure that David, one is only what you see and the other is what you cant see.
peace……………………….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 10 2009,13:03) David ………What if the snake was neither , what if it was the lustful nature of man, what if it was just a propensity of Man himself. A desire to have more just a inordinate desire for things. You don't believe God's Kingdom is one you can't see , but you believe their is a super-natural being cast out of Heaven who can rule here one earth without being seen. How do you figure that David, one is only what you see and the other is what you cant see. peace……………………….gene
Hi Gene:The scripture states:
Quote Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And so, this identifies the serpent as more than just Eve's imagination.
942767………Man is more subtitle or cunning then any beast God created of the field (earth) isn't he? Where is it said that its a invisible creature or being of some kind. God was merely showing the cunning nature of man at work. This whole false assumption of an invisible Satan or Devil being is all part of the False teachings of doctrines about Devils and demons, as Scriptures says, Teaching for Doctrine the doctrines of (about) Devils and demons. IMO
love and peace…………………….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 10 2009,14:53) 942767………Man is more subtitle or cunning then any beast God created of the field (earth) isn't he? Where is it said that its a invisible creature or being of some kind. God was merely showing the cunning nature of man at work. This whole false assumption of an invisible Satan or Devil being is all part of the False teachings of doctrines about Devils and demons, as Scriptures says, Teaching for Doctrine the doctrines of (about) Devils and demons. IMO love and peace…………………….gene
Gene:That spirit now works through men who obey him. A devil is a devil because that he obeys evil. Adam and Eve became the servants of the serpent when they obeyed him rather than God.
Quote Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? Mark 1:3 and he was there in the wilderness forty days, being tempted by the Adversary, and he was with the beasts, and the messengers were ministering to him.
James 1:14 but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed.
Scripture does not support an evil spirit being that draws us to serve our own flesh. It is by our very NATURE that we serve our flesh!
God created the enmity-
Genesis 3:15 and enmity I put between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; he doth bruise thee — the head, and thou dost bruise him — the heel.'
The adversary is one and the same to every human being, it is within every man and God placed it there to test us and teach us.
Ephesians 4:22 You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; 23 to be made new in the attitude of your minds; 24 and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.
The old self is not the self that gives into a celestial beings devices, but it is the self that follows the deceitful desires of its own flesh according to the ways of this world.
25 Therefore each of you must put off falsehood and speak truthfully to his neighbor, for we are all members of one body. 26 “In your anger do not sin”: Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry, 27 and do not give the devil a foothold. 28 He who has been stealing must steal no longer, but must work, doing something useful with his own hands, that he may have something to share with those in need. 29 Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. 30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31 Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice. 32 Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.
Romans 6:19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.
Our flesh is not made weak by an evil celestial being, or flesh is weak because we are the created and God made us subjected to the creation. Our minds are subjected to our weak bodies. This is the root of darkness.
Romans 13:11 And do this, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep; for now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed. 12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand. Therefore let us cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armor of light. 13 Let us walk properly, as in the day, not in revelry and drunkenness, not in lewdness and lust, not in strife and envy. 14 But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts.
Darkness is not found in follow a celestial being, darkness is found in following our flesh.
Within every person dwells the same dark force, it is WITHIN the human brain and scientists refer to it as the R complex or reptilian brain,
David Ike-“At least five human behaviors originate in the reptilian brain. These have been denoted as isopraxic, preservative, re-enactment, tropistic, and deceptive. Without defining them, I shall simply say that in human activities they find expression in:
•obsessive-compulsive behavior
•personal day-to-day rituals and superstitious acts
•slavish conformance to old ways of doing things
•ceremonial re-enactments
•obeisance to precedent, as in legal, religious, cultural, and other matters
•responding to partial representations (coloration, “strangeness,” etc.), whether alive or inanimate
•and all manner of deception”Without proper information going into our neo-cortex helping us to control our reptilian brain we would essential act no different from the animals.
Proverbs 4:1 Listen, my sons, to a father's instruction; pay attention and gain understanding. 2 I give you sound learning, so do not forsake my teaching. 3 When I was a boy in my father's house, still tender, and an only child of my mother, 4 he taught me and said, “Lay hold of my words with all your heart; keep my commands and you will live. 5 Get wisdom, get understanding; do not forget my words or swerve from them. 6 Do not forsake wisdom, and she will protect you; love her, and she will watch over you. 7 Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Though it cost all you have, get understanding. 8 Esteem her, and she will exalt you; embrace her, and she will honor you. 9 She will set a garland of grace on your head and present you with a crown of splendor.” 10 Listen, my son, accept what I say, and the years of your life will be many. 11 I guide you in the way of wisdom and lead you along straight paths. 12 When you walk, your steps will not be hampered; when you run, you will not stumble. 13 Hold on to instruction, do not let it go; guard it well, for it is your life.
Wisdom overcomes the darkness.
Jude 1:10 Yet these men speak abusively against whatever they do not understand; and what things they do understand by instinct, like unreasoning animals–these are the very things that destroy them.
Ecclesiastes 3:18 I also thought, “As for men, God tests them so that they may see that they are like the animals. 19 Man's fate is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath; man has no advantage over the animal. Everything is meaningless.
Ro 8:6 The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace;
Ro 6:6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.
Eph 4:22 that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts,
Col 3:9 Do not lie to one another, since you have put off the old man with his deeds,
Does the old man have anything to do with being drawn away and enticed by a celestial dark kingdom? No it is his own body of sin and his own lusts that draw him.2Pe 1:4which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
Corruption is not in the world through a celestial influencing being, but through the lusts of man that come strait from our nature, our reptilian brain.
We are to renew our mind, it is information put in our neo-cortex that enables us to have control over our reptilian brain.
Col 2:8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.
It is not according to some fallen angel that there is empty deceit, it is according to traditions of men based on principles of the world, men following their serpent brain instead of the higher things of God.
1Jo 2:16 all that is in the world–the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life–is not of the Father but is of the world
The lust of our flesh and the pride of our life is not of celestial influencing beings, but is of this world, it is part of being the created, and not of being like the Creator.
Ro 12:2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
1Co 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.Galatians 4:3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world.
We are not in bondage against a celestial being, but the elements of the world, which God created for us to overcome. We are in bondage according to the creation and being the created.
James 3: 13Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show by good conduct that his works are done in the meekness of wisdom. 14 But if you have bitter envy and self-seeking in your hearts, do not boast and lie against the truth. 15 This wisdom does not descend from above, but is earthly, sensual, demonic. 16 For where envy and self-seeking exist, confusion and every evil thing are there.
Notice the problem here for man is that he is self seeking. Does it take a supernatural being to make a person selfish or vein, no this is in our nature, it is just like it says it is EARTHLY, according to our senses, and thus to be demonic, has nothing to do with some other sort of manipulating being, to be demonic is to think according to your nature and not according to God.
Wisdom, which being the right kind of information logged into your neo-cortex helps you overcome the adversary the serpent, also known as your reptilian brain.Jesus destroyed the devil because the Holy Spirit caused his neo cortex to have COMPLETE control over his reptilian brain!
Scientist have discovered more information about the human brain in the past FEW years then they have throughout all of history, and they now know what is at the center of all of mankind’s evil, and it is within man’s brain.This latest truth of which God has revealed adds up completely with what the scriptures tell us IMO. When man does evil he is acting like a beast, a lion or like a SERPENT, creatures who do not know the way of God only their natural instincts. Put off the old man, and put on the new, through your mind. Put off being like the rest of creation and become like minded with God. If God didn’t make us like the animals with the same natural instincts driving us to survive, we could never be humbled to know that we need God’s Spirit and His direction.
Quote (942767 @ Jan. 09 2009,20:45) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 10 2009,14:53) 942767………Man is more subtitle or cunning then any beast God created of the field (earth) isn't he? Where is it said that its a invisible creature or being of some kind. God was merely showing the cunning nature of man at work. This whole false assumption of an invisible Satan or Devil being is all part of the False teachings of doctrines about Devils and demons, as Scriptures says, Teaching for Doctrine the doctrines of (about) Devils and demons. IMO love and peace…………………….gene
Gene:That spirit now works through men who obey him. A devil is a devil because that he obeys evil. Adam and Eve became the servants of the serpent when they obeyed him rather than God.
Quote Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Romans 7:24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God–through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.Ro 16:18 For those who are such do not serve our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly, and by smooth words and flattering speech deceive the hearts of the simple.
Our natural instincts TELL us that we need to serve our flesh in order to live. This is the SLANDERER (DEVIL), WE NEED GOD TO LIVE!
God created this enmity to teach us, and for us to overcome it.
Oh how I love Romans it tells us so much!
Ro 6:6knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.
Ro 6:16Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?
Obey our flesh according to our nature and the elements of this world, like the other animals, OR we need to renew our minds and obey God.
Ro 6:19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.
Brethren, please listen, our flesh is weak like all the rest of creation, our natural instincts draw us to serve our flesh so we do not taste death. But man IS SPECIAL, YHWH separated us from the rest of creation, and has made us with a brain capacity that we can take on His Spirit and overcome this weakness so that we could become like Him.
Quote I don't see this dragon or serpent in Revelation 12 to be some super-natural being. REVELATION 12:9
“So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him.”“He” has angels who were hurled down with him.
This “one” is called Devil (slanderer) and Satan (apposer)
“He” used to be in heaven, but was restricted access to heaven (was hurled to earth.)
He is misleading people.94, you don't see the serpent of this verse as being a “super-natural being.”
Do you see the “one” called Satan in Rev 12:9 as a being at all?Quote and the serpent had no extra-ordinary powers and yet he managed to deceive Eve
A talking serpent that has no extra- ordinary powers?
?Quote You don't believe God's Kingdom is one you can't see , but you believe their is a super-natural being cast out of Heaven who can rule here one earth without being seen. Yes, Gene. Let me introduce you to this SCRIPTURE, from the Bible:
REVELATION 12:9
“So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him.”Quote God was merely showing the cunning nature of man at work. –gene
Just as Satan used the serpant as a puppet, so he sometimes seems to speak through people. One of his greatest deceptions was convincing the world he doesn't exist.
gene, I wonder who you think is being spoken of at 2 cor 4:4?
Quote (david @ Jan. 09 2009,21:48) Quote I don't see this dragon or serpent in Revelation 12 to be some super-natural being. REVELATION 12:9
“So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him.”“He” has angels who were hurled down with him.
This “one” is called Devil (slanderer) and Satan (apposer)
“He” used to be in heaven, but was restricted access to heaven (was hurled to earth.)
He is misleading people.94, you don't see the serpent of this verse as being a “super-natural being.”
Do you see the “one” called Satan in Rev 12:9 as a being at all?Quote and the serpent had no extra-ordinary powers and yet he managed to deceive Eve
A talking serpent that has no extra- ordinary powers??
Hi David,Why are you picking and choosing what is literal and what is not in Revelation 12?
A DRAGON doth draw a third of the stars?
The dragon is specifically said to be kings, satan is a WORD meaning adversary, devil a WORD meaning slanderer. How EXACTLY do KINGS and kingdoms fight IN heaven and draw stars?
Angel MEANS messenger NOT as a given for supernatural being.
Stars are also represented as people.
The kings are the old serpent, the slanderer, the adversary, they are MEN following the ways of man……..following after their own flesh like a BEAST-hence why they are called a dragon because they are acting like a wild creature of creation INSTEAD OF ACTING LIKE THEIR CREATOR, AFTER THE HIGHER THINGS OF YHWH!
To all on this forum,
Jesus saw the adversary fall like lightening, and we see in Revelation that the dragon and his messengers are cast out of heaven.
Let’s put these scriptures into the CONTEXT of the rest of the bible and not man’s traditions.
So what do the scriptures SAY-
Isa 14:13 “But you said in your heart, 'I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God, And I will sit on the mount of assembly In the recesses of the north.
Pr 11:5 The righteousness of the blameless will direct his way aright, But the wicked will fall by his own wickedness.
We see throughout scripture that it is MAN who wants to be a god. We see through ancient history and the bible that man builds towers and temples that are to symbolically represent man’s position in heaven. We see in the bible that God cast out man and makes him fall. We also see that God makes Israel as the STARS OF HEAVEN, and that He establishes a ‘heavenly’ place on earth for them to be symbolically in His presence.
Notice Proverbs says that man falls due to HIS OWN wickedness not the influence of another creatures influence.
Notice how Isaiah 14 is about a MAN wanting to be a god and rising his throne to heaven, not a supernatural being who is in heaven wanting to be a god and then being kicked out of heaven.
Isaiah 34:1 Come near, you nations, to hear; And heed, you people! Let the earth hear, and all that is in it, The world and all things that come forth from it. 2 For the indignation of the Lord is against all nations, And His fury against all their armies; He has utterly destroyed them, He has given them over to the slaughter. 3 Also their slain shall be thrown out; Their stench shall rise from their corpses, And the mountains shall be melted with their blood. 4 All the host of heaven shall be dissolved, And the heavens shall be rolled up like a scroll; All their host shall fall down As the leaf falls from the vine, And as fruit falling from a fig tree. 5 “For My sword shall be bathed in heaven; Indeed it shall come down on Edom, And on the people of My curse, for judgment. 6 The sword of the Lord is filled with blood, It is made overflowing with fatness, With the blood of lambs and goats, With the fat of the kidneys of rams. For the Lord has a sacrifice in Bozrah, And a great slaughter in the land of Edom. 7 The wild oxen shall come down with them, And the young bulls with the mighty bulls; Their land shall be soaked with blood, And their dust saturated with fatness.” 8 For it is the day of the Lord's vengeance, The year of recompense for the cause of Zion.
Revelation 12:1 And a great sign was seen in the heaven, a woman arrayed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars, 2 and being with child she doth cry out, travailing and pained to bring forth. 3 And there was seen another sign in the heaven, and, lo, a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his head seven diadems, 4 and his tail doth draw the third of the stars of the heaven, and he did cast them to the earth; and the dragon did stand before the woman who is about to bring forth, that when she may bring forth, her child he may devour; 5 and she brought forth a male child, who is about to rule all the nations with a rod of iron, and caught away was her child unto God and His throne, 6 and the woman did flee to the wilderness, where she hath a place made ready from God, that there they may nourish her — days a thousand, two hundred, sixty. 7 And there came war in the heaven; Michael and his messengers did war against the dragon, and the dragon did war, and his messengers, 8 and they did not prevail, nor was their place found any more in the heaven; 9 and the great dragon was cast forth — the old serpent, who is called `Devil,' and `the Adversary,' who is leading astray the whole world — he was cast forth to the earth, and his messengers were cast forth with him. 10 And I heard a great voice saying in the heaven, `Now did come the salvation, and the power, and the reign, of our God, and the authority of His Christ, because cast down was the accuser of our brethren, who is accusing them before our God day and night; 11 and they did overcome him because of the blood of the Lamb, and because of the word of their testimony, and they did not love their life — unto death;
The dragon represents kings and kingdoms, these kings aren’t in THE LITERAL SKY DRAWING LITERAL STARS FROM HEAVEN, and literally fighting in heaven. Kings are NOT going to draw angels of God down from heaven to follow after them. The stars are human beings.
Ge 22:17 indeed I will greatly bless you, and I will greatly multiply your seed as the stars of the heavens, and as the sand which is on the seashore; and your seed shall possess the gate of their enemies.
Ge 26:4 “And I will multiply your descendants as the stars of heaven, and will give your descendants all these lands; and by your descendants all the nations of the earth shall be blessed;
Ge 37:9Now he had still another dream, and related it to his brothers, and said, “Lo, I have had still another dream; and behold, the sun and the moon and eleven stars were bowing down to me.”
Ex 32:13 “Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, Thy servants to whom Thou didst swear by Thyself, and didst say to them, 'I will multiply your descendants as the stars of the heavens, and all this land of which I have spoken I will give to your descendants, and they shall inherit it forever.'” Brutal
Nu 24:17 “I see him, but not now; I behold him, but not near; A star shall come forth from Jacob, And a scepter shall rise from Israel, And shall crush through the forehead of Moab, And tear down all the sons of Sheth.
De 1:10 'The Lord your God has multiplied you, and behold, you are this day as the stars of heaven for multitude.
Once again the great dragon specifically is said to represent MEN, these men are indeed following after THEIR OWN WICKEDNESS, they are being adversaries (satan), and slanderers (devil). They are as Peter was, an adversary to God for following THE WAYS OF MAN.
Man falls, not supernatural beings fall.
Jer 8:12 Were they ashamed when they had committed abomination? No! They were not at all ashamed, Nor did they know how to blush. Therefore they shall fall among those who fall; In the time of their punishment They shall be cast down,” says the Lord.
Jer 50:32 The most proud shall stumble and fall, And no one will raise him up; I will kindle a fire in his cities, And it will devour all around him.”
Eze 30:6 'Thus says the Lord: “Those who uphold Egypt shall fall, And the pride of her power shall come down. From Migdol to Syene Those within her shall fall by the sword,” Says the Lord God.
Am 8:14 Those who swear by the sin of Samaria, Who say, 'As your god lives, O Dan!' And, 'As the way of Beersheba lives!' They shall fall and never rise again.”
Re 16:19Now the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell. And great Babylon was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath.
Genesis 11: 4 And they said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city, and a tower whose top is in the heavens; let us make a name for ourselves, lest we be scattered abroad over the face of the whole earth.”
Judges 5:18 Zebulun is a people who jeopardized their lives to the point of death, Naphtali also, on the heights of the battlefield. 19 “The kings came and fought, Then the kings of Canaan fought In Taanach, by the waters of Megiddo; They took no spoils of silver. 20 They fought from the heavens; The stars from their courses fought against Sisera.
Ne 1:9 but if you return to Me, and keep My commandments and do them, though some of you were cast out to the farthest part of the heavens, yet I will gather them from there, and bring them to the place which I have chosen as a dwelling for My name.'
Job 20:6Though his haughtiness mounts up to the heavens, And his head reaches to the clouds,
The Old Testament establishes that people or nations in authority are often referred to as being in heaven, and that they are cast out from there. The bible shows us that man through his own heart tries to establish for himself a rulership from the heavens as if he is a god. Even from the beginning in Genesis we see a great symbol of which man created to represent a heavenly position, the Tower of Babel.
World Civilizations Washington State University website-
The Sumerians seem to have developed one of the world's first systems of monarchy; the early states they formed needed a new form of government in order to govern larger areas and diverse peoples. The very first states in human history, the states of Sumer, seemed to have been ruled by a type of priest-king, called in Sumerian, a ; among their duties were leading the military, administering trade, judging disputes, and engaging in the most important religious ceremonies. The priest-king ruled through a series of bureaucrats, many of them priests, that carefully surveyed land, assigned fields, and distributed crops after harvest. This new institution of monarchy required the invention of a new legitimation of authority beyond the tribal justification of chieftainship based on concepts of kinship and responsibility. So the Sumerians seemed to have at first justified the monarch's authority based on some sort of divine selection, but later began to assert that the monarch himself was divine and worthy of worship. This legitimation of monarchical authority would serve all the later peoples who settled or imitated Mesopotamian city-states; the only exception were the Hebrews who imitated Mesopotamian kingship but construed the monarchy not as a divine election but as disobedience to Yahweh, the Hebrew god.
LIVIUS , Articles on Ancient History website-
Our word ziggurat is derived from ziqqurratu, which can be translated as “rising building” (Akkadian zaqâru, “to rise high”). Some of them rose very high indeed. The temple tower known as Etemenanki (the 'House of the foundation of heaven on earth') in Babylon was 92 meters high. Even larger was the shrine of the god Anu at Uruk, built in the third or second century BCE. The best preserved temple tower is at Chogha Zanbil in Elam, modern Khuzestan in Iran.
Le 26:30 I will destroy your high places, cut down your incense altars, and cast your carcasses on the lifeless forms of your idols; and My soul shall abhor you.
Nu 22:41 So it was the next day, that Balak took Balaam and brought him up to the high places of Baal, that from there he might observe the extent of the people.
Nu 33:52 then you shall drive out all the inhabitants of the land from before you, destroy all their engraved stones, destroy all their molded images, and demolish all their high places;
De 28:1“Now it shall come to pass, if you diligently obey the voice of the Lord your God, to observe carefully all His commandments which I command you today, that the Lord your God will set you high above all nations of the earth.
De 33:29 Happy are you, O Israel! Who is like you, a people saved by the Lord, The shield of your help And the sword of your majesty! Your enemies shall submit to you, And you shall tread down their high places.”
1Ki 11:7 Then Solomon built a high place for Chemosh the abomination of Moab, on the hill that is east of Jerusalem, and for Molech the abomination of the people of Ammon.
2Ki 17:9 Also the children of Israel secretly did against the Lord their God things that were not right, and they built for themselves high places in all their cities, from watchtower to fortified city.
2Ki 17:11 There they burned incense on all the high places, like the nations whom the Lord had carried away before them; and they did wicked things to provoke the Lord to anger,
2Ki 17:29 However every nation continued to make gods of its own, and put them in the shrines on the high places which the Samaritans had made, every nation in the cities where they dwelt.
Isa 10:33 Behold, the Lord, The Lord of hosts, Will lop off the bough with terror; Those of high stature will be hewn down, And the haughty will be humbled.
Isaiah 24:20 Stagger greatly doth the land as a drunkard, And it hath been moved as a lodge, And heavy on it hath been its transgression, And it hath fallen, and addeth not to rise. 21 And it hath come to pass, in that day, Jehovah layeth a charge on the host of the high place in the high place, And on the kings of the land on the land. 22 And they have been gathered — A gathering of bound ones in a pit, And shut up they have been in a prison, And after a multitude of days are inspected.
Jer 32:35 And they built the high places of Baal which are in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire to Molech, which I did not command them, nor did it come into My mind that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.'
Jer 49:16 Your fierceness has deceived you, The pride of your heart, O you who dwell in the clefts of the rock, Who hold the height of the hill! Though you make your nest as high as the eagle, I will bring you down from there,” says the Lord.
Eze 6:6 In all your dwelling places the cities shall be laid waste, and the high places shall be desolate, so that your altars may be laid waste and made desolate, your idols may be broken and made to cease, your incense altars may be cut down, and your works may be abolished.
Eze 16:25 You built your high places at the head of every road, and made your beauty to be abhorred. You offered yourself to everyone who passed by, and multiplied your acts of harlotry.
Eze 43:7 And He said to me, “Son of man, this is the place of My throne and the place of the soles of My feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel forever. No more shall the house of Israel defile My holy name, they nor their kings, by their harlotry or with the carcasses of their kings on their high places.
Who were these kings? They were men who tried to make themselves gods, and their high places represented their dwelling place in heaven. These kings had authority over people and the people believed their king/god was the most high.
However David makes the claim that YHWH is the most high God.
Ps 97:9 For You, Lord, are most high above all the earth; You are exalted far above all gods.
Ps 113:5 Who is like the Lord our God, Who dwells on high,
Ps 102:19 For He looked down from His holy height; From heaven the Lord gazed upon the earth,
Ps 144:7 Stretch forth Thy hand from on high; Rescue me and deliver me out of great waters, Out of the hand of aliens
Ps 148:1 Praise the Lord! Praise the Lord from the heavens; Praise Him in the heights!
Scripture tells us that men declare themselves as gods having great authority in the high places.
Isa 24:21 So it will happen in that day, That the Lord will punish the host of heaven, on high, And the kings of the earth, on earth.
Isa 26:5 “For He has brought low those who dwell on high, the unassailable city; He lays it low, He lays it low to the ground, He casts it to the dust.
Isa 37:23“Whom have you reproached and blasphemed? And against whom have you raised your voice, And haughtily lifted up your eyes? Against the Holy One of Israel!
Jer 49:16“As for the terror of you, The arrogance of your
heart has deceived you, O you who live in the clefts of the rock, Who occupy the height of the hill. Though you make your nest as high as an eagle's, I will bring you down from there,” declares the Lord.Jer 51:53“Though Babylon should ascend to the heavens, And though she should fortify her lofty stronghold, From Me destroyers will come to her,” declares the Lord.
Ob 1:3“The arrogance of your heart has deceived you, You who live in the clefts of the rock, In the loftiness of your dwelling place, Who say in your heart, 'Who will bring me down to earth?
God also says that false gods HAVE NO POWERS, thus false gods are not supernatural beings in disguise. THE ONLY SUPERNATURAL POWER, whether it be blessing, cursing, or bringing life or death comes from YHWH!!!
Jeremiah 10:5 They are upright, like a palm tree, And they cannot speak; They must be carried, Because they cannot go by themselves. Do not be afraid of them, For they cannot do evil, Nor can they do any good.” 6 Inasmuch as there is none like You, O Lord (You are great, and Your name is great in might), 7 Who would not fear You, O King of the nations? For this is Your rightful due. For among all the wise men of the nations, And in all their kingdoms, There is none like You.
To fear another supernatural being is to create a false god. We are warned in the bible not to serve false gods, not because they are secret supernatural beings who have possessing powers and can curse us, but because they are a product of man’s inventions and they distort the truth.
God Bless, Jodi
Hi Jodi,
In Christ you should not fear Satan.
If you can accept the truth of scripture Rom16 says“17Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
18For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
19For your obedience is come abroad unto all men. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil.
20And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.
We will crush him.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 09 2009,22:46) Hi Jodi,
Do you fear Satan?
Ro 8:13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.Sometimes I do fear the evil in man, like when I am alone at night walking to my car. I have to remind myself that God will protect me.
As to fearing my flesh, No because Christ died for my sins and I know through him I have eternal life, thus I try my best to put to death the deeds of my body and live for the Spirit.
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