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Nick………you neither understand , what a SATAN is , nor what a SPIRIT is, even though Jesus plainly showed us what it is.
peace and love………………gene
Nick……….intellect is expressed in word, thats how i know you intellect by your words, And i can judge you by your words right.
Now with that go back and reread what Jesus said His word were and bingo you have your answer. 1+1=2 now see that wasn't so hear was it.peace and love…………………..gene
GB,
Jesus said MY WORDS are spirit and life, and his words are from God.
Do you think he meant the words of any man?
God does not need your additional logic.Nick………Good at least you understand that , now, being you imply you don't think any mans words are spirit, you are under obligation to prove it , or you are just mouthing off what you believe . Why would God's (WORDS) be Spirit and no one else's is Spirit. And while you at it tell us how do we try the spirit, if not by the words a man uses. You are under obligation to explain this or you just foaming out you ignorance and lack of understanding what is written. O and by the way GOD does not need you lack of understanding to diminish any thing from his word either.
love and peace to you……………..gene
Gb,
It is not a matter of why would they not but rather why you would assume and teach that they are.Jesus Christ was filled with the fullness of the Spirit of God and that is why he is unique in this regard.
Teach what is written if you judge that you are sufficiently grounded in that sacred truth and ready.
GB,
You ask
“And while you at it tell us how do we try the spirit, if not by the words a man uses. “Certainly out of the mouth comes what the heart is full of.
We can discern the spiritual content of a man by what fruit he produces.
But the words of Jesus from God are spirit and life while those of the dead are death.Let the dead bury the dead.
It is the words God, of Spirit and life found in the mouth of Jesus we need.
Hi,
Satan is greater than natural men
We need to respect this powerful prince and take care in our work against him is done in Jesus.
Lk11
21″When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed.22″But when someone stronger than he attacks him and overpowers him, he takes away from him all his armor on which he had relied and distributes his plunder.
23″He who is not with Me is against Me; and he who does not gather with Me, scatters.
Quote (Jodi @ Jan. 01 2009,11:53) To the people who read this forum, What do the scriptures say……………
Ps 38:20 They also that render evil for good are mine adversaries; because I follow the thing that good is.
Ps 71:13 Let them be confounded and consumed that are adversaries to my soul; let them be covered with reproach and dishonour that seek my hurt.
Ps 109:4 For my love they are my adversaries: but I give myself unto prayer.
Ps 109:20 Let this be the reward of mine adversaries from the LORD, and of them that speak evil against my soul.
Ps 109:29 Let mine adversaries be clothed with shame, and let them cover themselves with their own confusion, as with a mantle.
Strong's Number: 07853 Browse Lexicon
Original WordWord Origin
!tXa primitive root
Transliterated WordTDNT Entry
SatanTWOT – 2252
Phonetic SpellingParts of Speech
saw-tan' Verb
Definition1. (Qal) to be or act as an adversary, resist, oppose
We see men, enemies of David, are directly called in Hebrew !tX (saw-tan').
We see in Job and in Zechariah God's messenger are called !tX (saw-tan').
Zec 1:8 I saw by night, and behold a man riding upon a red horse, and he stood among the myrtle trees that were in the bottom; and behind him were there red horses, speckled, and white. 9 Then said I, O my lord, what are these? And the angel that talked with me said unto me, I will shew thee what these be. 10 And the man that stood among the myrtle trees answered and said, These are they whom the LORD hath sent to walk to and fro through the earth. 11 And they answered the angel of the LORD that stood among the myrtle trees, and said, We have walked to and fro through the earth, and, behold, all the earth sitteth still, and is at rest. 12 Then the angel of the LORD answered and said, O LORD of hosts, how long wilt thou not have mercy on Jerusalem and on the cities of Judah, against which thou hast had indignation these threescore and ten years? 13 And the LORD answered the angel that talked with me with good words and comfortable words. 14 So the angel that communed with me said unto me, Cry thou, saying, Thus saith the LORD of hosts; I am jealous for Jerusalem and for Zion with a great jealousy. 15 And I am very sore displeased with the heathen that are at ease: for I was but a little displeased, and they helped forward the affliction. 16 Therefore thus saith the LORD; I am returned to Jerusalem with mercies: my house shall be built in it, saith the LORD of hosts, and a line shall be stretched forth upon Jerusalem.
Zech 3:1 And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him. 2 And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?
What is this all about, who is this adversary? My understanding is that he is the messenger who has been reeking havoc on Jerusalem, for the past three score and ten years. This messenger is standing in the way because the people have not changed their ways, he knows this because he has been roaming around watching them. But God rebukes him because He has NOW chosen at this point in time to have mercy on them.
We see the red horse rider is a messenger of God also in Revelation-
Re 6:4 Then another horse came out, a fiery red one. Its rider was given power to take peace from the earth and to make men slay each other. To him was given a large sword.
Zec 6:1 And I turned, and lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and, behold, there came four chariots out from between two mountains; and the mountains were mountains of brass. 2 In the first chariot were red horses; and in the second chariot black horses; 3 And in the third chariot white horses; and in the fourth chariot grisled and bay horses. 4 Then I answered and said unto the angel that talked with me, What are these, my lord? 5 And the angel answered and said unto me, These are the four spirits of the heavens, which go forth from standing before the Lord of all the earth. 6 The black horses which are therein go forth into the north country; and the white go forth after them; and the grisled go forth toward the south country. 7 And the bay went forth, and sought to go that they might walk to and fro through the earth: and he said, Get you hence, walk to and fro through the earth. So they walked to and fro through the earth.
Job 1:7 And the Lord said to Satan, “From where do you come?” So Satan answered the Lord and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking back and forth on it.”
Job 2:2 And the Lord said to Satan, “From where do you come?” So Satan answered the Lord and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking back and forth on it.”
The Satan in Job and Zechariah are both messengers of God whose job is to watch over men and bring infliction when necessary.
Psalms 109:1 Hold not thy peace, O God of my praise; 2 For the mouth of the wicked and the mouth of the deceitful are opened against me: they have spoken against me with a lying tongue. 3 They compassed me about also with words of hatred; and fought against me without a cause. 4 For my love they are my adversaries: but I give myself unto prayer. 5 And they have rewarded me evil for good, and hatred for my love.
6 Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand. 7 When he shall be judged, let him be condemned: and let his prayer become sin. 8 Let his days be few; and let another take his office. 9 Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow.
David is specifically asking God to bring God's messenger of infliction onto his enemies. This messenger of infliction is known as the adversary, !tX (saw-tan')
Here we see once again in the bible angels of God directly referred to as Satans, !tX (saw-tan')
Nu 22:22 And God's anger was kindled because he went: and the angel of the LORD stood in the way for an adversary against him. Now he was riding upon his ass, and his two servants were with him.
Nu 22:32 And the angel of the LORD said unto him, Wherefore hast thou smitten thine ass these three times? behold, I went out to withstand thee, because thy way is perverse before me:
!tX (saw-tan'), are shown in the bible to be messengers of God, or men.
1Sa 29:4 And the princes of the Philistines were wroth with him; and the princes of the Philistines said unto him, Make this fellow return, that he may go again to his place which thou hast appointed him, and let him not go down with us to battle, lest in the battle he be an adversary to us: for wherewith should he reconcile himself unto his master? should it not be with the heads of these men?
2Sa 19:22 And David said, What have I to do with you, ye sons of Zeruiah, that ye should this day be adversaries unto me? shall there any man be put to death this day in Israel? for do not I know that I am this day king over Israel?
1Ki 5:4 But now the LORD my God hath given me rest on every side, so that there is neither adversary nor evil occurrent.
1Ki 11:14 And the LORD stirred up an adversary unto Solomon, Hadad the Edomite: he was of the king's seed in Edom.
1Ki 11:23 And God stirred him up another adversary, Rezon the son of Eliadah, which fled from his lord Hadadezer king of Zobah:
1Ki 11:25 And he was an adversary to Israel all the days of Solomon, beside the mischief that Hadad did: and he abho
rred Israel, and reigned over Syria.1 Chronicles 21:1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.
David consistently calls his enemies who want to fight him his adversaries. A threatening force wanting to defeat him, would certainly drive him to number his men.
In the Old Testament THERE IS NOT ONE SCRIPTURE THAT IDENTIFIES !tX (saw-tan') AS BEING A FALLEN ANGEL, OR A SUPERNATURAL BEING WHO IS JEALOUS OF GOD OR WANTS TO BE GOD.
What we do have however are MEN AND ANGELS OF GOD, DIRECTLY CALLED tX (saw-tan')!
On top of this we have in the Old Testament 29 scriptures telling us that men have deceit, 21 that men are deceitful, 17 say that men commit falsehood, and 4 that call men to be slanderers. None of these even hint at there being any sort of influencing supernatural beings, rather on the contrary, it is said that they come from within man himself.
As well, in the Old Testament we have men being likened to as serpents, but no supernatural beings as such.
This one in particular shows great resemblance to the serpent in the garden.
Mic 7:17 They shall lick the dust like a serpent; They shall crawl from their holes like snakes of the earth. They shall be afraid of the Lord our God, And shall fear because of You.
Ge 3:14 So the Lord God said to the serpent: “Because you have done this, You are cursed more than all cattle, And more than every beast of the field; On your belly you shall go, And you shall eat dust All the days of your life.
And let's add this one, Psalms 44:25 For bowed to the dust hath our soul, Cleaved to the earth hath our belly.
What we also have in the Old Testament is the fall of man, and man wanting to be God. No scripture exists that says some supernatural being wants to be God, or falls from anywhere.
And finally let us not leave out Jeremiah where false prophets are not following influencing supernatural beings but the delusions of their own mind.
Jer 14:14 Then the Lord said to me, “The prophets are prophesying lies in my name. I have not sent them or appointed them or spoken to them. They are prophesying to you false visions, divinations, idolatries and thedelusions of their own minds.
Jer 14:14 Then the Lord said to me, “The prophets are prophesying lies in my name. I have not sent them or appointed them or spoken to them. They are prophesying to you false visions, divinations, idolatries and thedelusions of their own minds.
When we build our foundation of understanding the New Testament with that which we are told from the Old, we can see truth from superstition.
The doctrines of the early church were created by pagan converts. These men, who were not often fond of Jews, did not use the Old Testament to understand the New, they specifically used their old pagan superstitions to understand the New and ignored the Old. I wouldn't even be surprised if we find out they were responsible for burning the original texts.
There has been a remarkable work of deception, and the key to unveiling these deceptions is to build our foundation of truth from what we are told in the Old Testament.
God Bless, Jodi
I am STILL waiting for someone to PROPERLY refute what I have shown in this post as well as the one I posted right at the turn of the New Year.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 07 2009,09:13) Hi Jodi,
Scripture does.
Hi Nick,IMPROPER RESPONSE
I guess you FAILED to notice that I USED scriptures, so your statement is quite VERY IDIOTIC, for how can scripture refute other scriptures? Rather if you keep the scriptures in line with each other you see clearly that the word adversary -!tX (saw-tan') in the Old Testament is specifically used to speak of either men or God's messengers.
Hi Jodi,
It is very easy to tie scripture in knots if that is your desire.
But a patients respectful pondering in search of truth is preferred by our Father.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 07 2009,13:58) Hi Jodi,
It is very easy to tie scripture in knots if that is your desire.
But a patients respectful pondering in search of truth is preferred by our Father.
So Nick why don't you ADDRESS the scriptures of which I gave and show how I'm incorrect and stop being a jerk.Quote (Jodi @ Jan. 08 2009,08:54) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 07 2009,09:13) Hi Jodi,
Scripture does.
Hi Nick,IMPROPER RESPONSE
I guess you FAILED to notice that I USED scriptures, so your statement is quite VERY IDIOTIC, for how can scripture refute other scriptures? Rather if you keep the scriptures in line with each other you see clearly that the word adversary -!tX (saw-tan') in the Old Testament is specifically used to speak of either men or God's messengers.
Hi Jodi:I believe we need to qualify what is meant when Satan is used as God's messengers.
An example of this, was that he allowed Nebuchadnezzar as king of Babylonia to punish the Nation of Israel for their disobedience. In this sense, Nebuchadnezzar was His messenger.
I do not believe that Satan is a super-natural being cast out of heaven. I believe that you did a good job of showing this by the scriptures.
Quote (Jodi @ Jan. 08 2009,09:01) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 07 2009,13:58) Hi Jodi,
It is very easy to tie scripture in knots if that is your desire.
But a patients respectful pondering in search of truth is preferred by our Father.
So Nick why don't you ADDRESS the scriptures of which I gave and show how I'm incorrect and stop being a jerk.
Hi Jodi,
You do not fully accept scripture as truth and are interested in teaching and not learning so how could it benefit anyone to argue with you?To all,
FACT-
In the Old Testament the Hebrew word for adversary !tX (saw-tan') is directly used in conjunction with man and with God's messengers, but it is NEVER once written directly in conjunction with any other sort of 'being'.
Fact, the coin phrase 'fallen angel' does NOT EXIST in the bible.
God Bless, Jodi
Quote (942767 @ Jan. 08 2009,11:12) Quote (Jodi @ Jan. 08 2009,08:54) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 07 2009,09:13) Hi Jodi,
Scripture does.
Hi Nick,IMPROPER RESPONSE
I guess you FAILED to notice that I USED scriptures, so your statement is quite VERY IDIOTIC, for how can scripture refute other scriptures? Rather if you keep the scriptures in line with each other you see clearly that the word adversary -!tX (saw-tan') in the Old Testament is specifically used to speak of either men or God's messengers.
Hi Jodi:I believe we need to qualify what is meant when Satan is used as God's messengers.
An example of this, was that he allowed Nebuchadnezzar as king of Babylonia to punish the Nation of Israel for their disobedience. In this sense, Nebuchadnezzar was His messenger.
I do not believe that Satan is a super-natural being cast out of heaven. I believe that you did a good job of showing this by the scriptures.
I agree.No where does it say that “Satan” was angel that was kicked out of heaven.
To get that you have to piece together scripture taken out of context.
Hi MK,
It does not say that.
It does say Jesus saw him falling and it does describe his future casting out in Revelation.Quote In the Old Testament THERE IS NOT ONE SCRIPTURE THAT IDENTIFIES !tX (saw-tan') AS BEING A FALLEN ANGEL, OR A SUPERNATURAL BEING WHO IS JEALOUS OF GOD OR WANTS TO BE GOD. Dividing scripture off into “old” and “new” testaments isn't really scriptural for “all scripture is inspired of God and beneficial.” (2 tim 3:16,17)
What do you make of this scripture?
REVELATION 12:9
“So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him.”
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