Satan

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 02 2009,06:39)

Hi 94,
Why do you not believe Jesus about what he said he saw?
Can anything in the natural world appear as an angel of light?

I agree that God loves men and did not create them sinners.
He knows they can again be clean vessels fir for his service.

Those who vilify men as evil by created nature cannot understand salvation.

Hi Nick:

Yes, there are those who come to us in sheep's clothing.

January 1, 2009 at 7:53 pm#116300

Participant

To the people who read this forum,

What do the scriptures say……………

Ps 38:20 They also that render evil for good are mine adversaries; because I follow the thing that good is.

Ps 71:13 Let them be confounded and consumed that are adversaries to my soul; let them be covered with reproach and dishonour that seek my hurt.

Ps 109:4 For my love they are my adversaries: but I give myself unto prayer.

Ps 109:20 Let this be the reward of mine adversaries from the LORD, and of them that speak evil against my soul.

Ps 109:29 Let mine adversaries be clothed with shame, and let them cover themselves with their own confusion, as with a mantle.

Strong's Number: 07853 Browse Lexicon
Original WordWord Origin
!tXa primitive root
Transliterated WordTDNT Entry
SatanTWOT – 2252
Phonetic SpellingParts of Speech
saw-tan' Verb
Definition

1. (Qal) to be or act as an adversary, resist, oppose

We see men, enemies of David, are directly called in Hebrew !tX (saw-tan').

We see in Job and in Zechariah God's messenger are called !tX (saw-tan').

Zec 1:8 I saw by night, and behold a man riding upon a red horse, and he stood among the myrtle trees that were in the bottom; and behind him were there red horses, speckled, and white. 9 Then said I, O my lord, what are these? And the angel that talked with me said unto me, I will shew thee what these be. 10 And the man that stood among the myrtle trees answered and said, These are they whom the LORD hath sent to walk to and fro through the earth. 11 And they answered the angel of the LORD that stood among the myrtle trees, and said, We have walked to and fro through the earth, and, behold, all the earth sitteth still, and is at rest. 12 Then the angel of the LORD answered and said, O LORD of hosts, how long wilt thou not have mercy on Jerusalem and on the cities of Judah, against which thou hast had indignation these threescore and ten years? 13 And the LORD answered the angel that talked with me with good words and comfortable words. 14 So the angel that communed with me said unto me, Cry thou, saying, Thus saith the LORD of hosts; I am jealous for Jerusalem and for Zion with a great jealousy. 15 And I am very sore displeased with the heathen that are at ease: for I was but a little displeased, and they helped forward the affliction. 16 Therefore thus saith the LORD; I am returned to Jerusalem with mercies: my house shall be built in it, saith the LORD of hosts, and a line shall be stretched forth upon Jerusalem.

Zech 3:1 And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him. 2 And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?

What is this all about, who is this adversary? My understanding is that he is the messenger who has been reeking havoc on Jerusalem, for the past three score and ten years. This messenger is standing in the way because the people have not changed their ways, he knows this because he has been roaming around watching them. But God rebukes him because He has NOW chosen at this point in time to have mercy on them.

We see the red horse rider is a messenger of God also in Revelation-

Re 6:4 Then another horse came out, a fiery red one. Its rider was given power to take peace from the earth and to make men slay each other. To him was given a large sword.

Zec 6:1 And I turned, and lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and, behold, there came four chariots out from between two mountains; and the mountains were mountains of brass. 2 In the first chariot were red horses; and in the second chariot black horses; 3 And in the third chariot white horses; and in the fourth chariot grisled and bay horses. 4 Then I answered and said unto the angel that talked with me, What are these, my lord? 5 And the angel answered and said unto me, These are the four spirits of the heavens, which go forth from standing before the Lord of all the earth. 6 The black horses which are therein go forth into the north country; and the white go forth after them; and the grisled go forth toward the south country. 7 And the bay went forth, and sought to go that they might walk to and fro through the earth: and he said, Get you hence, walk to and fro through the earth. So they walked to and fro through the earth.

Job 1:7 And the Lord said to Satan, “From where do you come?” So Satan answered the Lord and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking back and forth on it.”

Job 2:2 And the Lord said to Satan, “From where do you come?” So Satan answered the Lord and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking back and forth on it.”

The Satan in Job and Zechariah are both messengers of God whose job is to watch over men and bring infliction when necessary.

Psalms 109:1 Hold not thy peace, O God of my praise; 2 For the mouth of the wicked and the mouth of the deceitful are opened against me: they have spoken against me with a lying tongue. 3 They compassed me about also with words of hatred; and fought against me without a cause. 4 For my love they are my adversaries: but I give myself unto prayer. 5 And they have rewarded me evil for good, and hatred for my love.

6 Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand. 7 When he shall be judged, let him be condemned: and let his prayer become sin. 8 Let his days be few; and let another take his office. 9 Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow.

David is specifically asking God to bring God's messenger of infliction onto his enemies. This messenger of infliction is known as the adversary, !tX (saw-tan')

Here we see once again in the bible angels of God directly referred to as Satans, !tX (saw-tan')

Nu 22:22 And God's anger was kindled because he went: and the angel of the LORD stood in the way for an adversary against him. Now he was riding upon his ass, and his two servants were with him.

Nu 22:32 And the angel of the LORD said unto him, Wherefore hast thou smitten thine ass these three times? behold, I went out to withstand thee, because thy way is perverse before me:

!tX (saw-tan'), are shown in the bible to be messengers of God, or men.

1Sa 29:4 And the princes of the Philistines were wroth with him; and the princes of the Philistines said unto him, Make this fellow return, that he may go again to his place which thou hast appointed him, and let him not go down with us to battle, lest in the battle he be an adversary to us: for wherewith should he reconcile himself unto his master? should it not be with the heads of these men?

2Sa 19:22 And David said, What have I to do with you, ye sons of Zeruiah, that ye should this day be adversaries unto me? shall there any man be put to death this day in Israel? for do not I know that I am this day king over Israel?

1Ki 5:4 But now the LORD my God hath given me rest on every side, so that there is neither adversary nor evil occurrent.

1Ki 11:14 And the LORD stirred up an adversary unto Solomon, Hadad the Edomite: he was of the king's seed in Edom.

1Ki 11:23 And God stirred him up another adversary, Rezon the son of Eliadah, which fled from his lord Hadadezer king of Zobah:

1Ki 11:25 And he was an adversary to Israel all the days of Solomon, beside the mischief that Hadad did: and he abhorred Israel, and reigned over Syria.

1 Chronicles 21:1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.

David consistently calls his enemies who want to fight him his adv
ersaries. A threatening force wanting to defeat him, would certainly drive him to number his men.

In the Old Testament THERE IS NOT ONE SCRIPTURE THAT IDENTIFIES !tX (saw-tan') AS BEING A FALLEN ANGEL, OR A SUPERNATURAL BEING WHO IS JEALOUS OF GOD OR WANTS TO BE GOD.

What we do have however are MEN AND ANGELS OF GOD, DIRECTLY CALLED tX (saw-tan')!

On top of this we have in the Old Testament 29 scriptures telling us that men have deceit, 21 that men are deceitful, 17 say that men commit falsehood, and 4 that call men to be slanderers. None of these even hint at there being any sort of influencing supernatural beings, rather on the contrary, it is said that they come from within man himself.

As well, in the Old Testament we have men being likened to as serpents, but no supernatural beings as such.

This one in particular shows great resemblance to the serpent in the garden.

Mic 7:17 They shall lick the dust like a serpent; They shall crawl from their holes like snakes of the earth. They shall be afraid of the Lord our God, And shall fear because of You.

Ge 3:14 So the Lord God said to the serpent: “Because you have done this, You are cursed more than all cattle, And more than every beast of the field; On your belly you shall go, And you shall eat dust All the days of your life.

And let's add this one, Psalms 44:25 For bowed to the dust hath our soul, Cleaved to the earth hath our belly.

What we also have in the Old Testament is the fall of man, and man wanting to be God. No scripture exists that says some supernatural being wants to be God, or falls from anywhere.

And finally let us not leave out Jeremiah where false prophets are not following influencing supernatural beings but the delusions of their own mind.

Jer 14:14 Then the Lord said to me, “The prophets are prophesying lies in my name. I have not sent them or appointed them or spoken to them. They are prophesying to you false visions, divinations, idolatries and thedelusions of their own minds.

When we build our foundation of understanding the New Testament with that which we are told from the Old, we can see truth from superstition.

The doctrines of the early church were created by pagan converts. These men, who were not often fond of Jews, did not use the Old Testament to understand the New, they specifically used their old pagan superstitions to understand the New and ignored the Old. I wouldn't even be surprised if we find out they were responsible for burning the original texts.

There has been a remarkable work of deception, and the key to unveiling these deceptions is to build our foundation of truth from what we are told in the Old Testament.

God Bless, Jodi

January 1, 2009 at 8:02 pm#116301

Participant

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 01 2009,11:30)

Quote (Jodi @ Jan. 01 2009,19:04)

To the people who read this forum,

WJ says, “Our flesh walks about seeking whom it may devour?
Foolishness!”

Hitler, Stalin, Nero, HMM, many many dictators MASS MURDERED people, these were all men IN THE FLESH, and through their minds following after the lusts of their flesh, were lions SEEKING OUT WHO THEY COULD DEVOUR!

So yes, man’s weak flesh roams about seeking who it may devour if it be murder, greed, or whatever.

Proverbs 30:11 There is a generation that curses its father, And does not bless its mother. 12 There is a generation that is pure in its own eyes, Yet is not washed from its filthiness. 13 There is a generation–oh, how lofty are their eyes! And their eyelids are lifted up. 14 There is a generation whose teeth are like swords, And whose fangs are like knives, To devour the poor from off the earth, And the needy from among men.

Da 7:23“Thus he said: 'The fourth beast shall be A fourth kingdom on earth, Which shall be different from all other kingdoms, And shall devour the whole earth, Trample it and break it in pieces.

Kingdoms are run by HUMAN FLESH, and those humans DEVOUR other humans.

and Irene says, “Where does evil come from? The mind of man? Sorry Jodi that makes no sense.”

Let us read the scriptures………….

Galatians 5:13 For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. 14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”15 But if you bite and devour one another, beware lest you be consumed by one another! 16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

SHALL I DARE ASK WHAT SINS ARE LEFT TO BE IDENTIFIED AS THE WORKS OF SUPERNATURAL BEINGS?

Irene had said to me, “When I read all of this, I can see how you can be deceived, but nothing begets nothing. It has to come from some where. Your mind in it self is not evil, it is the garbage you put into your mind that is evil.”

HMM, let’s see what the scriptures say…….

Ge 6:5Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Ge 8:21And the Lord smelled a soothing aroma. Then the Lord said in His heart, “I will never again curse the ground for man's sake, although the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; nor will I again destroy every living thing as I have done.

Proverbs 6:12 A worthless person, a wicked man, Walks with a perverse mouth; 13 He winks with his eyes, He shuffles his feet, He points with his fingers; 14 Perversity is in his heart, He devises evil continually, He sows discord. 15 Therefore his calamity shall come suddenly; Suddenly he shall be broken without remedy. 16 These six things the Lord hates, Yes, seven are an abomination to Him: 17 A proud look, A lying tongue, Hands that shed innocent blood, 18 A heart that devises wicked plans, Feet that are swift in running to evil, 19 A false witness who speaks lies, And one who sows discord among brethren.

MAN devises evil in HIS HEART, and it leads to such things as slander and the speaking of lies. MAN is the adversary because in his heart he’d rather serve his flesh then serve God.

I really don’t see how anyone can just write off these scriptures? God made our flesh weak, we must acquire things in order to live, like food, shelter, clothes. Bring on famine and everybody hordes their food, becoming greedy and not wanting to share what they have. Some of the Israelites in the wilderness did not follow the manna laws, they tried to save their manna when they were not suppose to, and they set out on the Sabbath to gather manna when they were not suppose to. Why did they disobey God?? Oh, because some celestial beings came down whispered in their ears and told them to? NO. Their fear for survival, which was a natural mechanism that God gave to all mammals, and their fleshly need for food, drew them away from God’s commandment.

Ps 64:6They plot injustice and say, “We have devised a perfect plan!” Surely the mind and heart of man are cunning.

Psalms 140:1 To the Chief Musician. A Psalm of David. Deliver me, O Lord, from evil men; Preserve me from violent men, 2 Who plan evil things in their hearts; They continually gather together for war. 3 They sharpen their tongues like a serpent; The poison of asps is under their lips. Selah

No mention of supernatural beings, just evil from man’s heart.

Deuteronomy 8:12 Otherwise, when you eat and are satisfied, when you build fine houses and settle down, 13 and when your herds and flocks grow large and your silver and gold increase and all you have is multiplied, 14 then your heart will become proud and you will forget the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

Not a supernatural being causing men to sin against God and become proud, THINGS OF THE EARTH, OF THIS WORLD, such as possessions (herds, gold) of which the FLESH LOVES, lead to sin.
Romans 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful;

Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I deli
ght in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God–through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin

Ro 12:2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind,

Eph 2:3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

Ephesians 4:17 This I say, therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you should no longer walk as the rest of the Gentiles walk, in the futility of their mind, 18 having their understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart; 19 who, being past feeling, have given themselves over to lewdness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.

22 that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, 23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind,

Php 3:19 whose end is destruction, whose god is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame–who set their mind on earthly things…..21 who will transform our lowly body that it may be conformed to His glorious body, according to the working by which He is able even to subdue all things to Himself.

Colossians 1:20 and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross. 21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled

Colossians 2:18 Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those things which he has not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

MAN IS PUFFED UP AND VEIN BECAUSE OF HIS FLESHLY MIND!

It seems we have a warning not to worship angels, of course fearing fallen angels is a form of worship.

Colossians 3:2 Set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth. 3 For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God.

1 Peter 4:1 Therefore, since Christ suffered for us* in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same mind, for he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin, 2 that he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh for the lusts of men, but for the will of God. 3 For we have spent enough of our past lifetime in doing the will of the Gentiles–when we walked in lewdness, lusts, drunkenness, revelries, drinking parties, and abominable idolatries.

If someone wants to show me how THESE scriptures do not show that the influence to sin comes solely from our mind, due to our weak flesh, I'd really like to hear it.

It's always ABOUT THE FLESH AND THE MIND. Not even one sound scripture exists that talks about supernatural beings influencing us to do evil. Sure we have the text that say to watch out for or don't be a devil or a satan, but those are WORDS that mean adversary and slanderer, not supernatural slanderer, or supernatural adversary. They are certainly not some formal proper name for an individual. We see repeatedly that MAN following his flesh creates from HIS OWN HEART DECEIT AND SLANDER, and that man from his own mind becomes an adversary to himself and to others when he commits adultery or is greedy or murders..etc..We also see from the OT, that man puffs himself up to the heavens and God must bring him down, thus giving us the meaning of the adversary falling like lightening in the NT.

When Paul wrote Ephesians HE WAS IN PRISON UNDER NERO! Thus when he was writing obviously the slanderer of whom he was speaking of was NERO, not a supernatural being.

Ephesians 4:17 This I say, therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you should no longer walk as the rest of the F1 Gentiles walk, in the futility of their mind, 18 having their understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart; 19 who, being past feeling, have given themselves over to lewdness, to work all uncleanness with greediness. 20 But you have not so learned Christ, 21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus: 22 that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, 23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, 24 and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness. 25 Therefore, putting away lying, “Let each one of you speak truth with his neighbor,” for we are members of one another. 26 “Be angry, and do not sin”: do not let the sun go down on your wrath, 27 nor give place to the devil. 28 Let him who stole steal no longer, but rather let him labor, working with his hands what is good, that he may have something to give him who has need. 29 Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but what is good for necessary edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers.

Nor give place to the slanderer. Who would be the slanderer in this case, Nero who persecuted the followers of Jesus.

Ephesians 6:10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might. 11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, F19 against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. 13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. 14 Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness, 15 and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16 above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one.

Once again let’s think about the context here. Paul is in prison, and if anyone knows there history Nero was an evil man according to the flesh. Stand against the wiles of the devil. You don’t think the people in that age called Nero a slanderer?? Of course they did. Paul was PREPARING THEM FOR PERSECUTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The bible specifically shows that our adversaries are humans, Peter a HUMAN, is DIRECTLY CALLED A SATAN, The dragon, said to be the adversary and the slanderer, is a particular number of kings, and with the following scripture I give here, the devil is the Roman emperor and his government. Whether it be Nero or one of his successors. Re 2:10Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.

Man oh Man, Happy New Year everyone. I hope YHWH leads more people away from false teachings this year.

God Bless, Jodi

Hi Jodi:

From what I can see you used scripture to justify what you have said, and so if it is scriptural, I do not see that any one can argue. I do not believe that Satan is some super natural being that was cast out of heaven either.

One thing that I would like to say for your consideration, and that is when we are
born into this world as babies we are born in innocence, and that includes Jesus.

We were not born sinners, but we there were influences in our life to which we responded both and either to good or to do evil. The scriptures state that all of us have sinned and so all of us, except for Jesus, yielded to the temptation to do evil. Some of us did more evil than others. Also, some of us were oppressed by the evil that others did against us by their words or by their deeds, and this influenced us to hate and to strike back.

Also God is in the world, and jealosy of someone whom God is blessing may influence someone to do evil. Cain murdered Abel because God accepted his sacrifice and not his. Instead of trying to find out what Abel did to please God, and change his ways, he murdered him.

Thanks for your study of this subject. It has helped me through all of the scriptures that you have posted.

God Bless

Thank you 942767,

I too believe that babies are born innocent. Their flesh is weak however, and they are brought into a world drenched in sin, so there is no escaping, it is only a matter of time before they fall.

You are so right about Cain too. We should take note that he was the first born into the world that God had casted death onto, he was a murderer and a liar from that beginning. No supernatural being was present causing him to fall.

Peace and love to you, Jodi

January 1, 2009 at 8:11 pm#116304

Participant

Yes Jodi,
The dominion of Satan is indeed powerful.
Apart from the freedom and power offered in Jesus who can survive?

January 1, 2009 at 8:15 pm#116305

Participant

Hi Jodi:

Thank God that Jesus did not fall, but overcame the world, and it is through him that we also can gain the victory. Jesus has instructed us saying:

Quote

Mat 10:27 What I tell you in darkness, [that] speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, [that] preach ye upon the housetops.
Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

January 1, 2009 at 8:35 pm#116309

Participant

Jodi……I to agree with you and 942767 on this. We are all born innocent, and become sinners from the world were born into. Cain was truly the adversary of God because God told Him before he murdered his brother that sin lay at his door and he needed to master it, but sin mastered him and he lied to God about his brother saying he didn't know where he was and also murdered Him. So truly is was man who was the lier and murder in the beginning.

January 1, 2009 at 8:47 pm#116311

Participant

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 02 2009,06:51)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 02 2009,06:39)

Hi 94,
Why do you not believe Jesus about what he said he saw?
Can anything in the natural world appear as an angel of light?

I agree that God loves men and did not create them sinners.
He knows they can again be clean vessels fir for his service.

Those who vilify men as evil by created nature cannot understand salvation.

Hi Nick:

Yes, there are those who come to us in sheep's clothing.

Hi Nick:

There is this scripture:

Quote

2Cr 11:13 For such [are] false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

2Cr 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

2Cr 11:15 Therefore [it is] no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works

January 2, 2009 at 5:00 am#116353

Participant

Jodi……..the understand God has given you is very important in bringing people out of the (MYSTERY RELIGIONS) of these FALSE churches and their Doctrines about devils and demons. That has deluded them for so long. WE need to all come to understand its not some invisible creature thats the Satan its The EVIL thats in Man that is the ADVISORY TO GOD. The scriptures you are showing are backing you up and is beginning to loosen up all this fear mongering doctrines use by the fallen churches all these year, causing delusions in peoples hearts and minds. and fear phobias of all kinds. This may well be your calling, Stay strong Jodi, you are healing people Sis.

love and peace to you and yours………………………gene

January 2, 2009 at 6:53 am#116371

Participant

No GB,
We do not leave Jesus and the bible behind and follow you.
From what you say you believe that would be most unwise.

January 2, 2009 at 5:55 pm#116392

Participant

Hi Nick,

Could you give me the scriptures of which you find convincing that show the adversary to man and to God, as being a supernatural being?

Devil and Satan are words that do not stand for supernatural adversary or supernatural slanderer. So what scriptures do you find compelling to show that they are such?

Thanks, Jodi

January 2, 2009 at 6:18 pm#116394

Participant

For instance Nick we see in the Old Testament the text for Satan being directly used for men and to God's messengers. Where do we see it then become representative as a proper name for one specific individual?

January 2, 2009 at 6:26 pm#116395

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 02 2009,17:53)

No GB,
We do not leave Jesus and the bible behind and follow you.
From what you say you believe that would be most unwise.

Nick……….have you totally lost your mind, who ever told you too, leave Jesus and the bible behind. Your sounding more like an idiot every day. Look if i cant, backup what i say with scriptures then you or no one should believe it. But you falling to address the quoted or posted scriptures is the problem here not me preaching another Gospel. You use of condescending words to divert from subject matter it the real problem here. Your lack of knowledge and understanding is hindering growth Nick.

love and peace………………..gene

January 2, 2009 at 6:37 pm#116396

Participant

Jiodi……….You are right Satan is an adjective describing ADVERSITY and anyone can be a SATAN , even PETER> Is it amazing how some wont absorb that into their thinking. You have explained it well those who have ears to hear and eyes to see will, the other simply don't have the capacity to understand what you are saying at this time. Remember where it say about the servant who gives meat in due season. Continue to do so as God gives you understanding Jodi.

love and peace to you and yours…………………………gene

January 2, 2009 at 7:35 pm#116403

Participant

GB,
Meat is of the whole word, not pieces that suit man's doctrines.

January 2, 2009 at 10:16 pm#116415

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 03 2009,05:26)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 02 2009,17:53)

No GB,
We do not leave Jesus and the bible behind and follow you.
From what you say you believe that would be most unwise.

love and peace………………..gene

Quote

Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

January 2, 2009 at 10:19 pm#116416

Participant

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 03 2009,09:16)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 03 2009,05:26)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 02 2009,17:53)

No GB,
We do not leave Jesus and the bible behind and follow you.
From what you say you believe that would be most unwise.

love and peace………………..gene

Quote

God leads us to repentance, but it is up to us to repent. We have a choice.

January 3, 2009 at 12:39 am#116427

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 01 2009,21:00)

love and peace to you and yours………………………gene

Thanks Brother Gene,

As far is Nick is concerned, he accomplished exactly what he was trying to do, which was provoke you to anger. A true brother does not carry on the way he does, you had every right to say what you did.

God is the only one that can remove his blindness and the blindness of many others on this forum. You have strengthened me a great deal, and we both need to carry on with our understanding of truth.

I think we should be thankful for their opposition. God works in mysterious ways and I believe He has used them to drive us back time and time again to the scriptures, exposing further, each one of those times, the error of their beliefs.

January 3, 2009 at 12:46 am#116428

Participant

942767………but i have a cause, and that is Nick constant misquoting and miss representing what i and others are saying I have plenty (CAUSE) to be ANGRY with HIM> IF you brother brother transgress against you, go to him and confront him face to face. O and by the way even Jesus called people Fools and Hypocrites, lairs, vipers and snakes. Don't think i hate Nick because i Don't. but i do hate the false accusations and misrepresenting of the truth he does. Jesus said he hated the deeds of the some, but he didn't say he hated them did he.

You say God leads us to repentance, but you don't believe God (CAUSES) to Repentance then right. Its kind of like leading a horse to water but you can't make him drink . Only problem with that approach is its not scriptural at all. Please show us where is says any where our salvation or repents is up to us . WE decide decide to go to Christ ourselves. by our so-called “FREE WILLS”. In fact show me the word (FREE WILL) anywhere in any BIBLE that written. You would think just because it isn't even in scripture that in itself would cause some concern. Remember the Sum of Scripture is truth, no just some little snap shot here and there. Scripture doesn't use the word (FREE WILL) because there is no such thing in existence. WE have influenced WILLS ONLY, and nothing more. And God controls our Will by controlling our reasonings in our minds. If he is in you He both defends you and accuses you. That is if he is truly in you.

love and peace………….gene

January 3, 2009 at 1:17 am#116436

Participant

GB,
So, as you say, God does not influence every will.
So why do you say all will be saved?

January 3, 2009 at 1:34 am#116437