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Quote (942767 @ Dec. 25 2008,16:27) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 25 2008,14:02) Hi 94,
We are not physically dead when the word is sown.
We have the breath of God through Adam.Adam never was given the Spirit of God.
Hi Nick:No, we are not physically dead when the gospel is preached to us, but our soul is dead to God because of sin. The life of our flesh is in the blood. If we are wounded and bleed to death, our body dies, and if we are dead to God in our tespasses, the soul will be destroyed either through the seven last plagues or at the second resurrection.
God breathed the breath of life into Adam's nostrils and he became a living soul. This is the Spirit of God that was given him. His soul was alive to God through that Spirit. Just as we who are born again Christians have the Spirit of our Father dwelling within us because we are the children of God. Adam was a child of God in innocence before his fall. At our birth, we do not have the Spirit of God dwelling within us. When we are born into this world, someone spanks us on the rear and we begin breathing oxygen. This is not the breath of God that Adam received. If we are born to Christian parents, they have the Spirit of God dwelling within them, and we are alive to God because of our parents, but when we become of age we have to make the decsision whether or not we will serve God or not. “Except a man be born of Water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter the kindgom of God”.
I disagree ……..breath = H5397
נשׁמה
neshâmâh
nesh-aw-maw'
From H5395; a puff, that is, wind, angry or vital breath, divine inspiration, intellect or (concretely) an animal: – blast, (that) breath (-eth), inspiration, soul, spirit.life = H2416
חי
chay
khah'ee
From H2421; alive; hence raw (flesh); fresh (plant, water, year), strong; also (as noun, especially in the feminine singular and masculine plural) life (or living thing), whether literally or figuratively: – + age, alive, appetite, (wild) beast, company, congregation, life (-time), live (-ly), livingGen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
When Adam received the breath of life it was not spiritual life it was animated living flesh – the same as us
Adam was natural – Jesus is the quickening spirit
In Corinthians we are told first is the natural then the spiritual – not spiritual, then fall to flesh, then spiritual again.
Quote (chosenone @ Dec. 25 2008,12:19) Two scriptures that show God is the author of ALL things. Ro.11:36 … seeing that out of Him and through Him and for Him is all: to Him be the glory for the eons! Amen!
Eph.1:11 … being designated beforehand according to the purpose of the One (God) Who is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will,
All creation is subject to Gods' will, He is operating all. Likened to a play, He (God) is the author, we are the actors. All the script is predestined as to Gods directions.
He uses evil to accomplish His will, it is hard to understand at times, but His ways are not our ways, they are on a much higher plain.
At the consummation, the completed creation, God will be “ALL in all”. (1Cor.15:25) For He must be reigning until He (Jesus) should be placing all His enemies under His feet.
26 The last enemy is being abolished: death.
27 For He subjects all under His feet. Now whenever He may be saying that all is subject, it is evident that it is outside of Him Who subjects all to Him.
28 Now, whenever all may be subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also shall be subjected to Him (God), Who subjects all to Him, that God may be All in all.)Blessings.
Hi COSo according to your view God is the “author” of the rape of a little girl, or incest or murder.
Heck with this view God caused man to commit evil and then gave them ten commandments against them.
Foolishness and warped and in fact lies about YHWH.
WJ
Hi 94,
Compare these verses.
Genesis 2:7
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.Genesis 6:17
And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.Genesis 7:15
And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.Genesis 7:22
All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, diedDid all flesh receive of the Spirit of God by the breath of God?
Hi 94,
If Adam received the Spirit of God and we all derive our life through him then we are all of the Spirit.
Not so ..we must be born again.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 25 2008,15:53) Hi 94,
Why do you teach that the breath of God is the Spirit of God?
Scripture does not.
Hi Nick:Please check here:
Quote http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H5397&t=KJV I am teaching what I believe to be the truth. How about you?
Quote (942767 @ Dec. 25 2008,18:05) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 25 2008,15:53) Hi 94,
Why do you teach that the breath of God is the Spirit of God?
Scripture does not.
Hi Nick:Please check here:
Quote http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H5397&t=KJV I am teaching what I believe to be the truth. How about you?
Gods Spirit is ruach – The Spirit of God is not breath (breath is for animating flesh)H7307
רוּח
rûach
roo'-akh
From H7306; wind; by resemblance breath, that is, a sensible (or even violent) exhalation; figuratively life, anger, unsubstantiality; by extension a region of the sky; by resemblance spirit, but only of a rational being (including its expression and functions): – air, anger, blast, breath, X cool, courage, mind, X quarter, X side, spirit ([-ual]), tempest, X vain, ([whirl-]) wind (-y).breath =
H5397
נשׁמה
neshâmâh
nesh-aw-maw'
From H5395; a puff, that is, wind, angry or vital breath, divine inspiration, intellect or (concretely) an animal: – blast, (that) breath (-eth), inspiration, soul, spirit.It is breath that is given to animals and humans to animate them – it is not the Spirit of God
When Adam became a living soul
living = H2416
חי
chay
khah'ee
From H2421; alive; hence raw (flesh); fresh (plant, water, year), strong; also (as noun, especially in the feminine singular and masculine plural) life (or living thing), whether literally or figuratively: – + age, alive, appetite, (wild) beast, company, congregation, life (-time), live (-ly), living (creature, thing), maintenance, + merry, multitude, + (be) old, quick, raw, running, springing, troop.soul = H5315
נפשׁ
nephesh
neh'-fesh
From H5314; properly a breathing creature, that is, animal or (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental): – any, appetite, beast, body, breath, creature, X dead (-ly), desire, X [dis-] contented, X fish, ghost, + greedy, he, heart (-y), (hath, X jeopardy of) life (X in jeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortality, one, own, person, pleasure, (her-, him-, my-, thy-) self, them (your) -selves, + slay, soul, + tablet, they, thing, (X she) will, X would have it.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 25 2008,18:26) Hi 94,
What we believe is not necessarily correct
Yes Nick – well saidQuote (Jodi @ Dec. 25 2008,12:46) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 24 2008,13:17) Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 25 2008,08:04) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 24 2008,12:51) Jodi,Dec. wrote:Throughout the book of Job it is made clear that Job's infliction came from God.
42:11 All his brothers and sisters and everyone who had known him before came and ate with him in his house. They comforted and consoled him over all the trouble the LORD had brought upon him, and each one gave him a piece of silver and a gold ring.
The adversary in Job was in alliance with God, he was a messenger of God, a Son of God, who's job was to roam the earth and watch over men.
The book of Job makes it clear that the messenger of God acting as an adversary to Job, was right, in that Job needed infliction to be refined.
Hi JodiQuote (Jodi @ Dec. 25 2008,07:16)
Throughout the book of Job it is made clear that Job's infliction came from God.This is an untrue statement!
Would you rather believe the eyewitnesses of carnal men or the words of YHWH…
And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although “THOU MOVEDST ME AGAINST HIM, TO DESTROY HIM WITHOUT CAUSE”. Job 2:3
And the LORD said unto Satan, BEHOLD, HE IS IN THINE HAND; “BUT SAVE HIS LIFE“. Job 2:6
WJ
WJ,The adversary WAS RIGHT, and God knew it. The messenger's work brought Job into repentence.
I suggest you reread Job.
Hi JodiWhat? The adversary “satan” was right in trying to move Gods hand against Job to destroy him without cause?
It seems you need to read the book again because it is satan that rains fire down and destroys his family and possesions and afllcts job with boils and almost takes his life.
Can you show us where God does this to any of his people that are walking upright and perfect before him.
You have a warped understanding of God if you believe God does these things to the righteous.
WJ
Hi Jodi
Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 25 2008,12:46)
Good Evening WJ,Job 2:10
He replied, “You are talking like a foolish woman. Shall we accept good from God, and not trouble?” In all this, Job did not sin in what he said.
Job in his distress could not accuse God of wrong doing and curse God like his foolish wife suggested. But Job didn’t have the knowledge that satan had done this and not God.
For the previous conversation satan had with God was…And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, “A PERFECT AND AN UPRIGHT MAN, ONE THAT FEARETH GOD, AND ESCHEWETH EVIL? And still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.” And Satan answered the LORD, and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life. But put forth thine hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse thee to thy face. And the LORD said unto Satan, “BEHOLD, HE IS IN THINE HAND; BUT SAVE HIS LIFE”. “SO WENT SATAN forth from the presence of the LORD, AND SMOTE JOB WITH SORE BOILS FROM THE SOLE OF HIS FOOT UNTO HIS CROWN”. Job 2:3-7
Yet Jodi you believe the Lord did this evil to Job when the Lord had said Job was “A PERFECT AND AN UPRIGHT MAN, ONE THAT FEARETH GOD, AND ESCHEWETH EVIL”, and the Lord said to satan “BEHOLD, HE IS IN THINE HAND.
How clear is this? Previously to this the Lord had said to satan…
…”BEHOLD, ALL THAT HE HATH IS IN THY POWER; ONLY UPON HIMSELF PUT NOT FORTH THINE HAND”. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD. Job 1:12
Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 25 2008,12:46)
7:17 “What is man that you make so much of him, that you give him so much attention, 18 that you examine him every morning and test him every moment? 19 Will you never look away from me, or let me alone even for an instant? 20 If I have sinned, what have I done to you, O watcher of men? Why have you made me your target? Have I become a burden to you? 21 Why do you not pardon my offenses and forgive my sins? For I will soon lie down in the dust; you will search for me, but I will be no more.”
Again, when a man contradicts the Lord’s words in the scriptures whose word do you believe. The Lord had said Job was……“A PERFECT AND AN UPRIGHT MAN, ONE THAT FEARETH GOD, AND ESCHEWETH EVIL? And still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.”
Job in his distress thought he must have sinned because of the evil that had come upon him from the “hand of satan”.
Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 25 2008,12:46)
10:1 “I loathe my very life; therefore I will give free rein to my complaint and speak out in the bitterness of my soul. 2 I will say to God: Do not condemn me, but tell me what charges you have against me. 3 Does it please you to oppress me, to spurn the work of your hands, while you smile on the schemes of the wicked?
Job still has not perceived that “satan’s hand caused this and not the Lord’s“SO WENT SATAN forth from the presence of the LORD, AND SMOTE JOB WITH SORE BOILS FROM THE SOLE OF HIS FOOT UNTO HIS CROWN”
Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 25 2008,12:46)
Job 12:9 Which of all these does not know that the hand of the Lord has done this? 10 In his hand is the life of every creature and the breath of all mankind.
“BEHOLD, HE IS IN THINE HAND; BUT SAVE HIS LIFE”. “SO WENT SATAN forth from the presence of the LORD, AND SMOTE JOB WITH SORE BOILS FROM THE SOLE OF HIS FOOT UNTO HIS CROWN”.Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 25 2008,12:46)
When you read through the book of Job it is evident that God found it necessary to test Job.
Again you are misguided by your false doctrine. It is satan that sought to move the hand of the Lord against Job yet the Lord said…, “BEHOLD, HE IS IN THINE HAND; BUT SAVE HIS LIFE”. “SO WENT SATAN forth from the presence of the LORD, AND SMOTE JOB WITH SORE BOILS FROM THE SOLE OF HIS FOOT UNTO HIS CROWN”. Job 2:3-7
Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 25 2008,12:46)
WJ, you can destroy a person and not kill them, you destroy their life, as I have already mentioned. The adversary specifically said9 “Does Job fear God for nothing?” Satan replied. 10 “Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. 11 But stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face.”
Destroying everything that a person has is destroying them.
Not so because the Lord said…“BEHOLD, HE IS IN THINE HAND; BUT SAVE HIS LIFE”.
Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 25 2008,12:46)
You are forcing the text and distoring it to fit your man made tradition.
Tradition? Yes. Man made? No, it is you who has the man made doctrine that God brings evil upon the righteous. You still are yet to show one place in scripture where an upright servant of God walking after him is afflicted with evil from God.Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 25 2008,12:46)
The book of Job declares Job's suffering as coming from God, because the adversary was one of HIS messengers.
Where is the scripture that says the adversary “satan” is God’s messenger to Job?This is simply your distortions!
WJ
Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 25 2008,13:05) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 24 2008,13:17) Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 25 2008,08:04) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 24 2008,12:51) Jodi,Dec. wrote:Throughout the book of Job it is made clear that Job's infliction came from God.
42:11 All his brothers and sisters and everyone who had known him before came and ate with him in his house. They comforted and consoled him over all the trouble the LORD had brought upon him, and each one gave him a piece of silver and a gold ring.
The adversary in Job was in alliance with God, he was a messenger of God, a Son of God, who's job was to roam the earth and watch over men.
The book of Job makes it clear that the messenger of God acting as an adversary to Job, was right, in that Job needed infliction to be refined.
Hi JodiQuote (Jodi @ Dec. 25 2008,07:16)
Throughout the book of Job it is made clear that Job's infliction came from God.This is an untrue statement!
Would you rather believe the eyewitnesses of carnal men or the words of YHWH…
And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although “THOU MOVEDST ME AGAINST HIM, TO DESTROY HIM WITHOUT CAUSE”. Job 2:3
And the LORD said unto Satan, BEHOLD, HE IS IN THINE HAND; “BUT SAVE HIS LIFE“. Job 2:6
WJ
WJ,The adversary WAS RIGHT, and God knew it. The messenger's work brought Job into repentence.
I suggest you reread Job.
Hi JodiWhat? The adversary “satan” was right in trying to move Gods hand against Job to destroy him without cause?
It seems you need to read the book again because it is satan that rains fire down and destroys his family and possesions and afllcts job with boils and almost takes his life.
Can you show us where God does this to any of his people that are walking upright and perfect before him.
You have a warped understanding of God if you believe God does these things to the righteous.
WJ
Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 25 2008,13:05) Are you trying to say that Job was perfect, like Jesus without sin?
No I am just saying what the Lord says…And the LORD said unto Satan, “Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although “thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause”. Job 2:3
A man can walk perfectly before God in what he knows and obviously this is the way the Lord saw Job. But apparantly you must think that God was out to punish Job.
Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 25 2008,13:05)
Like I said before you cannot read through the book of Job and not see that God found it necessary to inflict Job.
And you plainly can't see because of the foggy glasses you have on that the Lord brings evil on the righteous. It was satan that brought the evil upon Job.And the LORD said unto Satan, BEHOLD, HE IS IN THINE HAND; “BUT SAVE HIS LIFE“. Job 2:6
Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 25 2008,13:05) You seem to claim that God allowed the adversary to inflict Job in order to show the adversary that Job would still remain faithful. However the entire book after Chapter 2 is about God and Job, and has nothing to do with the adversary.
Did he curse God? Did he remain faithful?The Lord said after satan had destroyed all that he had…
And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? “AND STILL HE HOLDETH FAST HIS INTEGRITY”, although “THOU MOVEDST ME AGAINST HIM, TO DESTROY HIM WITHOUT CAUSE”. Job 2:3
Seems pretty clear the Lord is trying to make a point to satan concerning his servant Job for he says “AND STILL HE HOLDETH FAST HIS INTEGRITY”.
Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 25 2008,13:05) With your understanding God allows the torture of someone NOT FOR THEIR OWN benifit, but just to prove something to someone esle, I ask you -what kind of fair God is that?
I have to laugh at this one.
You talk about God being fair, yet you believe God torments the righteous and those who walk perfectly before him. What a warped understanding of God?
Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 25 2008,13:05) God brings forth blessings and cursings onto mankind and He accomplishes this through His messengers. The adversary in Job is no exception.
Again your theology has it all wrong. I am convinced that when a mans (or womans) foundation of truth is not right then the whole tower leans.Scriptures teach it is Blessings on the obedient and righteous and curses on the rebellious and wicked.
WJ
Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 25 2008,13:09) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 24 2008,12:51) Jodi,Dec. wrote:Throughout the book of Job it is made clear that Job's infliction came from God.
42:11 All his brothers and sisters and everyone who had known him before came and ate with him in his house. They comforted and consoled him over all the trouble the LORD had brought upon him, and each one gave him a piece of silver and a gold ring.
The adversary in Job was in alliance with God, he was a messenger of God, a Son of God, who's job was to roam the earth and watch over men.
The book of Job makes it clear that the messenger of God acting as an adversary to Job, was right, in that Job needed infliction to be refined.
Hi JodiQuote (Jodi @ Dec. 25 2008,07:16)
Throughout the book of Job it is made clear that Job's infliction came from God.This is an untrue statement!
Would you rather believe the eyewitnesses of carnal men or the words of YHWH…
And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although “THOU MOVEDST ME AGAINST HIM, TO DESTROY HIM WITHOUT CAUSE”. Job 2:3
And the LORD said unto Satan, BEHOLD, HE IS IN THINE HAND; “BUT SAVE HIS LIFE“. Job 2:6
WJ
Hi JodiQuote (Jodi @ Dec. 25 2008,13:09)
Oh, so according to you WJ, when it fits YOUR theology, only the quoted words of God coming from the bible are true, but the rest of the bible is carnal man speaking and is a LIE??
How desperate you must feel right now.This is not at all what I am saying or what I believe but just a cheap shot. Let me try and break it down for you.
The scriptures say as you quoted…
42:11 All his brothers and sisters and everyone who had known him before came and ate with him in his house. They comforted and consoled him over all the trouble the LORD had brought upon him, and each one gave him a piece of silver and a gold ring.
This is a “true” account of what his brothers and sisters said and did for Job. However their perception concerning the Lord bringing the evil upon him was wrong because the Lord said…
And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although “THOU MOVEDST ME AGAINST HIM, TO DESTROY HIM WITHOUT CAUSE”. Job 2:3
And the LORD said unto Satan, BEHOLD, HE IS IN THINE HAND; “BUT SAVE HIS LIFE“. Job 2:6
How hard is this to understand?
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 24 2008,23:07) Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 25 2008,13:05) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 24 2008,13:17) Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 25 2008,08:04) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 24 2008,12:51) Jodi,Dec. wrote:Throughout the book of Job it is made clear that Job's infliction came from God.
42:11 All his brothers and sisters and everyone who had known him before came and ate with him in his house. They comforted and consoled him over all the trouble the LORD had brought upon him, and each one gave him a piece of silver and a gold ring.
The adversary in Job was in alliance with God, he was a messenger of God, a Son of God, who's job was to roam the earth and watch over men.
The book of Job makes it clear that the messenger of God acting as an adversary to Job, was right, in that Job needed infliction to be refined.
Hi JodiQuote (Jodi @ Dec. 25 2008,07:16)
Throughout the book of Job it is made clear that Job's infliction came from God.This is an untrue statement!
Would you rather believe the eyewitnesses of carnal men or the words of YHWH…
And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although “THOU MOVEDST ME AGAINST HIM, TO DESTROY HIM WITHOUT CAUSE”. Job 2:3
And the LORD said unto Satan, BEHOLD, HE IS IN THINE HAND; “BUT SAVE HIS LIFE“. Job 2:6
WJ
WJ,The adversary WAS RIGHT, and God knew it. The messenger's work brought Job into repentence.
I suggest you reread Job.
Hi JodiWhat? The adversary “satan” was right in trying to move Gods hand against Job to destroy him without cause?
It seems you need to read the book again because it is satan that rains fire down and destroys his family and possesions and afllcts job with boils and almost takes his life.
Can you show us where God does this to any of his people that are walking upright and perfect before him.
You have a warped understanding of God if you believe God does these things to the righteous.
WJ
Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 25 2008,13:05) Are you trying to say that Job was perfect, like Jesus without sin?
No I am just saying what the Lord says…And the LORD said unto Satan, “Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although “thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause”. Job 2:3
A man can walk perfectly before God in what he knows and obviously this is the way the Lord saw Job. But apparantly you must think that God was out to punish Job.
Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 25 2008,13:05)
Like I said before you cannot read through the book of Job and not see that God found it necessary to inflict Job.
And you plainly can't see because of the foggy glasses you have on about the Lord bringing evil on the righteous. It was satan that brought the evil upon Job.And the LORD said unto Satan, BEHOLD, HE IS IN THINE HAND; “BUT SAVE HIS LIFE“. Job 2:6
Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 25 2008,13:05) You seem to claim that God allowed the adversary to inflict Job in order to show the adversary that Job would still remain faithful. However the entire book after Chapter 2 is about God and Job, and has nothing to do with the adversary.
Did he curse God? Did he remain faithful?The Lord said after satan had destroyed all that he had…
And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? “AND STILL HE HOLDETH FAST HIS INTEGRITY”, although “THOU MOVEDST ME AGAINST HIM, TO DESTROY HIM WITHOUT CAUSE”. Job 2:3
Seems pretty clear the Lord is trying to make a point to satan concerning his servant Job for he says “AND STILL HE HOLDETH FAST HIS INTEGRITY”.
Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 25 2008,13:05) With your understanding God allows the torture of someone NOT FOR THEIR OWN benifit, but just to prove something to someone esle, I ask you -what kind of fair God is that?
I have to laugh at this one. You talk about God being fair, yet you believe God torments the righteous and those who walk perfectly before him. What a warped understanding of God?
Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 25 2008,13:05) God brings forth blessings and cursings onto mankind and He accomplishes this through His messengers. The adversary in Job is no exception.
Again your theology has it all wrong. I am convinced that when a mans (or
womans) foundation of truth is not right then the whole tower leans.Scriptures teach it is Blessings on the obedient and righteous and curses on the rebellious and wicked.
WJ
You didn't answer my question.Why would God allow this adversary to torture Job, if it would not work for Job's benefit?
Yes, Job was seen by God as an upright man, that does NOT mean however that there was no work to be done in Job. Obviously Job in the end came out a wiser and better man.
The adversary plays no part after chapter two, after that it's about the identity of man and of God, as well as the need for God to test man through trials, which He does through the use of His messengers.
In the beginning there was no need for a specific punishment because no direct sin was committed by Job. However, God obviously took into account what the messenger told Him about Job, otherwise God would not have inflicted Job.
My foggy glasses?? Your the one who basically said that verses not in quotations coming from God, are written from the carnal mind and cannot be trusted.
WJ, you need to KEEP READING passed Chapter 2, the book of Job goes into over 40 chapters dude, even my King James bible has a chapter titled, JOB REPENTS.
You said, “Scriptures teach it is Blessings on the obedient and righteous and curses on the rebellious and wicked.”
So, once again, why would God allow for Job to be cursed then?
I will tell you why, because God and His messenger, BOTH KNEW that there was work and instruction to be done with Job.
Job 42:1 Then Job replied to the Lord: 2 “I know that you can do all things; no plan of yours can be thwarted. 3 You asked, 'Who is this that obscures my counsel without knowledge?' Surely I spoke of things I did not understand, things too wonderful for me to know. 4 “You said, 'Listen now, and I will speak; I will question you, and you shall answer me.' 5 My ears had heard of you but now my eyes have seen you. 6 Therefore I despise myself and repent in dust and ashes.”
Yes, if you actually read the Book of Job it isn't hard to understand, it is clear.
IN PART, THANKS TO GOD'S WATCHFUL MESSENGER, JOB BECAME A BETTER MAN!
Hi,
God allows Satan to destroy the flesh of unfaithful servants for the sake of their soul.
Death is better than suffering the loss of the soul.
Salvation of the soul is the hope.WJ…….what do you do with this scripture, that says GOD did it to JOB. JOB 42:11…> Then came there unto him all his brethren, and all his sisters, and all they that had been of acquaintance before and did eat bread with him in his house: and they bemoaned him, and comforted him over (ALL) THE( EVIL) THAT THE (LORD) HAD (BROUGHT) UPON HIM:
THIS SCRIPTURE SHOWS GOD DID IT ALL, it was not a bet between God and a Satan being that caused what happened to Job but a deliberate intervention into his life by God himself. But the question is why would God do that to a (PERFECT AND UPRIGHT MAN) who shunned evil an only done good. In order to find out we need to look at what was going on with Job, Job was not being infected with sin as the rest of humanity was, because God had built a hedge around him or shield and Evil could not penetrate it and get to His mind as it does other men. But you see there is a problem with that one in time can become (self righteous) as Job words showed he was becoming and in order to save Job God had to readjust His thinking and show Him his righteousness was about nothing, and that was the lesson Job learned.
However there is some similarities that we can see in the 1000 year reign of Christ and the Saints in this example. One Evil is removed and can not influence the people any longer and righteousness flourishes in all the earth, and the inhabitance of the earth become more and more self righteous , they don't have Gods spirit in them to keep them humble and at the end God releases Evil influence back on the earth and they all turn on the Saints and Jesus, question WHY? because God must be (IN YOU) in order for you to maintain doing right if not no matter How much God puts evil away from you when it reappears you will fail again, So He must remain in Us in order to maintain righteousness. Job is a good example of what happens to people at the end of the 1000 year Millennium Reign of Christ and the Saints. It also says they shall ware out the saints of the most High. How do you tell the self righteous the need to be saved and they are still in need of salvation. We are all like a ship without a rudder and will go which ever way the wind blows in our lives, we (NEED) a rudder to guide Us always and for ever , and that rudder is our GOD Guiding by HIS Spirit.
Peace and love to you and yours……………..gene
The lesson of Job is a great lesson if understood It shows us how (Self) righteousness will draw God discipline on us and how even though we are kept in a right way we should never get puffed up about it.
GB,
Do you think God did not allow Satan to do his evil work?
God discussed with Satan what form this testing could take.Go back to Jb 1-2
Life without Satan's influence is easier.
We need to resist this powerful being with the armour of the Lord.
GB,
Job had no righteousness but we have the robe of Righteousness of Christ.
Jesus overcame Satan and cannot be accused of any sin.
Those who are baptised into him can be protected.Eph6
10Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.11Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
13Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
14Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
15And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
17And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
18Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;
Nick…..No He caused Evil to come on Job, Just as He causes Evil to come on all man kind, This may at first seem wrong to think that and attach Evil to Gods doing. But God uses Evil to teach all of us , to love good and hate evil. Nick a Key is to understand GOOD (AND) EVIL is to understand Thats what LIFE consists of (good and evil) We are receptors and don't have the ability to maintain righteousness, we will go to which ever has the greatest influence in us, good or evil. Thats why it say the LORD BLESS (AND) KEEP YOU> why because we cannot now or never KEEP ourselves. Job is a great lesson and so is the Millennial reign of Jesus and the Saints. God shows by example why he had to do what he does with us. It's all for all of our good in the long run. IMO
love and peace to you and yours…………………gene
So GB,
We need to remove chapter one and two of Job to make it fit your doctrine?
Why do you kick at the goad of God's teachings?
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