- This topic has 2,237 replies, 40 voices, and was last updated 4 years, 5 months ago by
.
- Posts
Jodi….You have correctly explained scripture. The only SATINS are men THEMSELVES. THE carnal MIND IS AN ENEMY of GOD not subject to the laws of GOD Neither CAN BE> this is the natural mind not a mind under the leadership of another god BEING. It a mind lead by its lusts and pride. John said (ALL) that in the world , the lust of the flesh , the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life , comes from the world, not some god being jumping in and out of him. Notice John said (ALL) so he wasn't leaving anything out. Man doesn't need another being to cause him to sin, man own nature is a sinful one. To try to put all this sin on another being is just a human cop out. Man is a SATAN Just as Peter was , when Jesus called him Satan. It was Peters own nature causing him to be and adversary to Christ not a unseen devil of some kind. Devils and demons and a Separate Satan is just a false pagan teaching . You have explained this whole false teaching correctly.
Love to you and yours…………..gene
GB,
So you think Jesus Christ was not the truth but he and his disciples were influenced by paganism?
So whom are you following?Nick…..You need not tell me what i think is against Jesus, because you do not understand what he meant when he spoke. Many can read His words but do they understand them (NO)> There is nothing me or Jodi or Isaac Newton have said that is against Jesus' words. You are looking through fleshly eyes and can not see the spiritual meanings in Christ words. IMO
GB,
I think we all understand that Jesus drove evil spirits out of people.
I do not think he needs your added wordsQuote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 22 2008,16:13) Hi Jodi,
“James 4:1 Where do wars and fights come from among you? Do they not come from your desires for pleasure that war in your members? 2 You lust and do not have. You murder and covet and cannot obtain. You fight and war. Yet you do not have because you do not ask. 3 You ask and do not receive, because you ask amiss, that you may spend it on your pleasures. 4 Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. 5 Or do you think that the Scripture says in vain, “The Spirit who dwells in us yearns jealously”? 6 But He gives more grace. Therefore He says: “God resists the proud, But gives grace to the humble.” 7 Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.”Flesh belongs to the world and that world's prince opposes God, using men to do his work.
Nick that is NOT what the scriptures say.Basically with your understanding and that of WJ's as well, toddlers and young children are all possessed by a supernatural beings. Hell, we might as well consider that the animals are under the spell of evil beings.
You go completely against scripture that says we sin from our OWN desires.
Scripture does NOT say that it takes a supernatural being to cause sinful desires in our flesh. Scripture does not say that it takes a supernatural being in order for us to follow those desires.
You and WJ have NO base for your doctrine.
If Jesus says that we can commit a whole list of sins all on our own accord, your doctrine falls to pieces. And sure enough Jesus does indeed tell us that such sins as evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lewdness, an evil eye, pride, foolishness, and blasphemies all come from ourselves.
The word devil does not stand for a sentient being but rather in the Greek the word was used to describe a HUMAN BEING who was a false accuser, liar, one who separates, enemy, adversary.
In order for me to define the word devil as a supernatural being who is acting as a false accusser, or liar, or enemy to man and God, I would need to see a scripture that shows such.
All I see from you and WJ's end is desperation. You take scriptural symbolism and FORCE it to fit your doctrine, and you continue to conveniently not discuss scriptures that directly refer to the devil and Satan as men by Jesus.
the world's prince or Ruler,
1Jo 2:16 For all that is in the world–the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life–is not of the Father but is of the world.
Nick and WJ, show me in scripture where it says, NOT DEVIL (because according to the Greek that was a description of one man's actions against another), but a sentient or supernatural being that causes us to follow our own fleshly desires?
Hi Jodi,
Demons conversed with the Saviour.
They are not leaderless independant agents.
A legion of them upset a herd of pigs and they tried to swim.Hi Jodi,
A rock can describe a human being as well as a lump of stone.
A building can describe a church as well as a pile of bricks.
A fountain can describe the living Spirit as well as water.
Lead can be a metal as well as taking by the hand
Bear can be to carry and also a fuzzy beastNone of these meanings denies the other possible one.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 22 2008,19:22) Hi Jodi, Demons conversed with the Saviour.
They are not leaderless independant agents.
A legion of them upset a herd of pigs and they tried to swim.
Give me one scripture that says those demons were influencing or causing the person to sin?Demons are evil spirits, in the Greek they were also called 'devine powers.”
YHWH says that he alone has the divine powers to inflict people with such things as madness, and mental confusion.
When an evil spirit speaks, it is not the ‘person’ speaking, because that person is temporary out of commission because the disease has taken over their mind and that person is no longer themselves. The mind and body has been taken over by the disease.
Hi Jodi,
The inside of the cup of the pharisees needed a springclean as they were murderous like their Dad.
What is this disease that Jesus cast into pigs making them suicidal?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 22 2008,19:47) Hi Jodi,
The inside of the cup of the pharisees needed a springclean as they were murderous like their Dad.
What is this disease that Jesus cast into pigs making them suicidal?
A disease that affected their brain, just like it did in the man.Yes, the Pharisees were of the serpent seed, the first one being Cain, born into the service of the flesh under death. Cain was a murder and a liar from the beginning.
Hi Jodi,
So the serpent has seed?
How did the Pharisees follow Cain in this?
Werte they blood descendants or how is this seed passed on?
If they were born into this problem to what extent can they be blamed for it?Hi Jodi,
You say
“Demons are evil spirits, in the Greek they were also called 'devine powers.”YHWH says that he alone has the divine powers to inflict people with such things as madness, and mental confusion.”
Do you think what the GREEKS THINK bears any relationship to scriptural truth?
“When an evil spirit speaks, it is not the ‘person’ speaking, because that person is temporary out of commission because the disease has taken over their mind and that person is no longer themselves. The mind and body has been taken over by the disease. “
So what is this GOING OUT OF COMMISSION?
Is that a form of death or of life?
If they are not themselves, who are they?
You mean other stronger beings CONTROL them from within?
Quote (Jodi @ Sep. 20 2008,13:32) Quote (Tiffany @ Sep. 19 2008,14:43) Jodi and Gen Who was it that tempted Jesus in Math. 4
In Luke 10:18 Jesus saw Satan fall like lighting from heaven. Who was that serpent that gave Eve the Apple to eat?
Acts 5:3 Peter said ” Ananias why has Satan filled your heart with Lie's………
2 Cor. 11:14 And no wonder for Satan himself has transformed himself into an angel of light….
2 Thess. 2:9 The coming of the lawless one, is according to the working of Satan…..I do see a being in all of these Scriptures. I believe that it is IMO dangerous to deny that there is no Satan, that makes it easier for him to deceive all. He only has a little time left when God is going to put him in chains along those with those evil spirits that roam the earth right now.
Jesus will teach finally all truths and peace and love will be present. The earth will finally be at rest, for a thousand years and then God will loose Satan, to test all mankind. And a multitude of mankind will follow him. God will strike them instantly, and they will be no more. The Saints will trample on their ashes. Mica.Rev. 2:9, 2:13, 2:24, 12:9, 20:7Peace and Lve Irene
Hello Irene,I would like you to give me one example as to how the fallen angel of whom you believe in COULD influence me?
You seem to believe that since I don't believe that fallen angels exist, I am more susceptible to their influence, so tell me how are they going to go about influencing me and what might be one of their influences?
As well, how might I go about getting him to not influence me?
I would appreciate it, if those who also believe that Satan represents a supernatural being if they could answer my questions as well.
Thanks, Jodi
Greetings Jodi…..I might be able to answer your question “How the fallen angel in which you believe Could influence me”…..I would have to say ” your steadfast,unyeilding argument as to the non existance of a fallen angel is a good start…Your arguments are pointed and concise and for the most part correct,with respect to scripture,however somewhat selective….The essense of true education would involve an effort to disprove your convictions equal to that exerted to justify them….A good understanding of the awsome power of evil would have to show one how diabolicly clever and appealing satan can be..And in closing….His crowning achievment is always to fein his own existance….Quote (theodorej @ Sep. 22 2008,22:05) Quote (Jodi @ Sep. 20 2008,13:32) Quote (Tiffany @ Sep. 19 2008,14:43) Jodi and Gen Who was it that tempted Jesus in Math. 4
In Luke 10:18 Jesus saw Satan fall like lighting from heaven. Who was that serpent that gave Eve the Apple to eat?
Acts 5:3 Peter said ” Ananias why has Satan filled your heart with Lie's………
2 Cor. 11:14 And no wonder for Satan himself has transformed himself into an angel of light….
2 Thess. 2:9 The coming of the lawless one, is according to the working of Satan…..I do see a being in all of these Scriptures. I believe that it is IMO dangerous to deny that there is no Satan, that makes it easier for him to deceive all. He only has a little time left when God is going to put him in chains along those with those evil spirits that roam the earth right now.
Jesus will teach finally all truths and peace and love will be present. The earth will finally be at rest, for a thousand years and then God will loose Satan, to test all mankind. And a multitude of mankind will follow him. God will strike them instantly, and they will be no more. The Saints will trample on their ashes. Mica.Rev. 2:9, 2:13, 2:24, 12:9, 20:7Peace and Lve Irene
Hello Irene,I would like you to give me one example as to how the fallen angel of whom you believe in COULD influence me?
You seem to believe that since I don't believe that fallen angels exist, I am more susceptible to their influence, so tell me how are they going to go about influencing me and what might be one of their influences?
As well, how might I go about getting him to not influence me?
I would appreciate it, if those who also believe that Satan represents a supernatural being if they could answer my questions as well.
Thanks, Jodi
Greetings Jodi…..I might be able to answer your question “How the fallen angel in which you believe Could influence me”…..I would have to say ” your steadfast,unyeilding argument as to the non existance of a fallen angel is a good start…Your arguments are pointed and concise and for the most part correct,with respect to scripture,however somewhat selective….The essense of true education would involve an effort to disprove your convictions equal to that exerted to justify them….A good understanding of the awsome power of evil would have to show one how diabolicly clever and appealing satan can be..And in closing….His crowning achievment is always to fein his own existance….
Hi Theodorej,Thanks for your response, except you did not answer the question.
Rev 20:2-3
2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.So, our “flesh nature” is bound and not allowed to influence us.
3 He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.
NIVWhy must satan [flesh] be set free again?
Rev 20:4
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge.
NIVHOLD UP!!! Why are their judges if there is no satan[flesh] to cause people to sin?
Rev 20:4-5
They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
NIVYou will find other scripture alluding to this reign- — “with a rod of iron” Iron doesn't bend. That means that is His way and His alone. Question: why is such authority needed to reign if everyone's “flesh nature” is bound? This would make them perfect people, walking only in the Spirit… Why do they need to be ruled with a rod of iron?
[The truth is that their flesh is still present and they are able to sin. However, righteousness is ruling them with a rod of iron. There is still rebellion in some hearts, which need to be exposed. That is why the enemy must come back; so that they will rebel and be judged and unable to enter the kingdom. There is NO rebellion in the kingdom, and if you will rebel here, you will rebel there.]
Rev 20:7-8
7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth — Gog and Magog — to gather them for battle.
NIVJodi, you asked how satan could influence you? It is if there is anything that is against God and Messiah in it. Anyone who loves the world is in rebellion toward YHWH and His righteousness. That is “giving the devil a foothold.” When you love darkness, you are easily decieved.
Jodi, as I said before, you are right in saying that we can sin on our own because of the evil in our hearts. That is why we are soley responsible for our sin… because it was our choice, and no one made us. We can, however be drawn and enticed by the enemy, but this is because of the evil that is in us in the first place.
Shania…Satan is only the adversarial influences of evil (spirits) intellects , this is what causes this beast in humanity to rise up, it even says in Revelations that this beast rises up out of the SEA (humanity) and causes wars and etc. During the Thousand year reign of Christ and the Saints this adversarial influence will be taken away and bound so it can not influence man kind for a thousand years. But is released and immediately causes man to do evil again, Why because man is a receptor of good and evil and when present they effect him in either good or evil ways, thats why it takes GOD'S SPIRIT to remain in a person to keep him from sinning.
That point is why there is a thousand year period, to prove that even with the evil influence removed and only good influence remaining , that when evil influence is again introduced it will begin to effect the minds of man and therefore man must have the Spirit of GOD (IN) him to Keep him from sinning for ever. It's all to prove the point that without God Man can never maintain righteousness by himself.
Quote (Jodi @ Sep. 24 2008,02:08) Quote (theodorej @ Sep. 22 2008,22:05) Quote (Jodi @ Sep. 20 2008,13:32) Quote (Tiffany @ Sep. 19 2008,14:43) Jodi and Gen Who was it that tempted Jesus in Math. 4
In Luke 10:18 Jesus saw Satan fall like lighting from heaven. Who was that serpent that gave Eve the Apple to eat?
Acts 5:3 Peter said ” Ananias why has Satan filled your heart with Lie's………
2 Cor. 11:14 And no wonder for Satan himself has transformed himself into an angel of light….
2 Thess. 2:9 The coming of the lawless one, is according to the working of Satan…..I do see a being in all of these Scriptures. I believe that it is IMO dangerous to deny that there is no Satan, that makes it easier for him to deceive all. He only has a little time left when God is going to put him in chains along those with those evil spirits that roam the earth right now.
Jesus will teach finally all truths and peace and love will be present. The earth will finally be at rest, for a thousand years and then God will loose Satan, to test all mankind. And a multitude of mankind will follow him. God will strike them instantly, and they will be no more. The Saints will trample on their ashes. Mica.Rev. 2:9, 2:13, 2:24, 12:9, 20:7Peace and Lve Irene
Hello Irene,I would like you to give me one example as to how the fallen angel of whom you believe in COULD influence me?
You seem to believe that since I don't believe that fallen angels exist, I am more susceptible to their influence, so tell me how are they going to go about influencing me and what might be one of their influences?
As well, how might I go about getting him to not influence me?
I would appreciate it, if those who also believe that Satan represents a supernatural being if they could answer my questions as well.
Thanks, Jodi
Greetings Jodi…..I might be able to answer your question “How the fallen angel in which you believe Could influence me”…..I would have to say ” your steadfast,unyeilding argument as to the non existance of a fallen angel is a good start…Your arguments are pointed and concise and for the most part correct,with respect to scripture,however somewhat selective….The essense of true education would involve an effort to disprove your convictions equal to that exerted to justify them….A good understanding of the awsome power of evil would have to show one how diabolicly clever and appealing satan can be..And in closing….His crowning achievment is always to fein his own existance….
Hi Theodorej,Thanks for your response, except you did not answer the question.
Greetings Jodi…..Oh ! but i did answer the question….The fact that you question his very existance indicates you are willing to accept the fact that he does not exist…..Which is exactly his objective…
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
