Satan

[942767]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 21 2008,13:58)

Hi 94, Satan had been given a serpent home and ruled already here but man of earth aligned with that prince of darkness too.

Hi Nick:

I am not sure that I am understanding the first part of your comment.

God's judgment to the serpent was:

Quote

Gen 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou [art] cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

I see many serpents of various sorts in the world crawling on their belly, but I do not see any tempting men to do evil. However, he (the tempter, through the lusts of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and the pride of life) entered into the world through his new house the body of Adam and Eve.

And that same spirit dwells within men when they yield to temptation. Yes, he jumps right in if you open the door to your house and let him in.

At least this is they way that I understand this. Please give me your understanding.

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
You say
” However, he (the tempter, through the lusts of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and the pride of life) entered into the world through his new house the body of Adam and Eve.”

If Satan was IN and speaking through the serpent
then he was in the world before Adam and Eve.

They did not create the adversary.

[Shania]

Quote (Jodi @ Sep. 21 2008,12:03)

Once Jesus took control over the thoughts in his brain that were being aroused by his flesh, his desires to serve his flesh left him and he continued his walk serving God's Will.

If you say that “the devil” is ''flesh”, then you could substitute the word “flesh” for devil”, which would give you:

“his flesh left him.”

“his desires to serve his flesh” is a separate thing. If that were in scripture it would say,:

“his desire to serve the devil [flesh] left him.”

This is not in scripture. It doesn't fit.

[NickHassan]

Hi Shania,
And the flesh is not unified as the father of lies nor was it a murderer from the beginning.

[Shania]

1 Peter 5:8-9

8 Be self-controlled and alert. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.
NIV

If my enemy is my flesh [wanting to destroy me], what is it doing prowling around looking for others to devour? It's job is to attack me!

It seems that if the “devil” is our flesh, then we would all have our own personal “devils” to contend with. However, scripture talks about the “devil” as if “he” is singular, attacking everyone.

[Shania]

1 Tim 5:11-15

11 As for younger widows, do not put them on such a list. For when their sensual desires overcome their dedication to Christ, they want to marry. 12 Thus they bring judgment on themselves, because they have broken their first pledge. 13 Besides, they get into the habit of being idle and going about from house to house. And not only do they become idlers, but also gossips and busybodies, saying things they ought not to. 14 So I counsel younger widows to marry, to have children, to manage their homes and to give the enemy no opportunity for slander. 15 Some have in fact already turned away to follow Satan.
NIV

“give the enemy no opportunity for slander”

Our flesh slanders us?

The truth of the matter is that this goes back to the legality that I was talking about with the book of Job. The “enemy” is called the “accuser.” If he is able to find deciet in us, he “accuses” us before the Judge. Paul is trying to keep the young widows from bringing judgement on themselves:

“Thus they bring judgment on themselves”

[The stupid behavior that follows this will give the enemy a chance to “slander” them, and they will be judged. This could be easily avoided if they re-marry (Paul says)]

Our flesh does not accuse or slander us. Our flesh wants to be comfortable.

[Shania]

I apoligize. I misinterpreted:

1 Tim 5:5
5 The widow who is really in need and left all alone puts her hope in God and continues night and day to pray and to ask God for help.
NIV

1 Tim 5:11-13

11 As for younger widows, do not put them on such a list. For when their sensual desires overcome their dedication to Christ, they want to marry. 12 Thus they bring judgment on themselves, because they have broken their first pledge.
NIV

They bring judgement on themselves if they commit to being on a “widows list” according to the requirements in vs 5, and then go back on it.

However, the same principle of the enemy slandering and accusing us is the same.

[Shania]

Rev 12:10-11
For the accuser of our brothers,
who accuses them before our God day and night,
has been hurled down.
11 They overcame him
by the blood of the Lamb
and by the word of their testimony;
they did not love their lives so much
as to shrink from death.
NIV

[Shania]

Quote (Jodi @ Sep. 21 2008,12:03)

Shania, you said, “Can our flesh take us places and then command us to do things?” I don't know about you but whenever I go somewhere it is through the decision I have made in my brain, and when I make a decision that decision is weighed according to the information within my brain. Shania, do you think that after going days and days without food that you might go and do and say things you might not normally do?

Mark 1:12-13

12 At once the Spirit sent him out into the desert , 13 and he was in the desert forty days, being tempted by Satan. He was with the wild animals, and angels attended him.
NIV

The whole time that he was being tempted, he was in the desert.

It says that Satan “showed him” these things. My opinion is that he did it through a vision.

[Shania]

Quote (gollamudi @ Sep. 21 2008,10:10)

Good points Shania. But I ask you one think who is this Satan or Devil ? Is he having supernatural powers like God to be an adversary of God ? Who created this great Satan and when was he ever created ? Peace and love to you Adam

Satan can only do what God allows him to do. Satan can only influence those who “want” to be influenced. [those who desire after evil/ or those who are in sin and do not repent.] The only power he has is through our flesh. That is why if we put to death our flesh, he has nothing to grab onto- no foothold.

This is also why death had no power over Messiah. Messiah was dead to his flesh and his will and only cared about his Father's will. He had no sin, so death could not reign in his body. It was “illegal”

[Shania]

Phil 3:10-11
10 I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, 11 and so, somehow, to attain to the resurrection from the dead.
NIV

[Shania]

If we are “crucified with Christ” and we become like him in his death, satan has no power over us.

Gal 2:20-21
20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!”
NIV

Rom 6:5-13

5 If we have been united with him like this in his death, we will certainly also be united with him in his resurrection. 6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin— 7 because anyone who has died has been freed from sin.

8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. 10 The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.

11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires.
NIV

This is why I think it is good that Jodi is so concerned about the flesh. I believe that we should be more concerned about the evil that is in our own hearts than we should be about the enemy. For if we confront our evil desires and put them to death, the enemy has nothing to attack.

[GeneBalthrop]

Shania…….Good post. Its our own hearts that defile us , not some supposed other being going around jumping in and out of us. The devil is our own adversarial hearts. Jodi is right in what she said. IMO

[NickHassan]

GB,
You say
“The devil is our own adversarial hearts”
Does your heart go about like a roaring lion trying to devour you?

[Jodi]

Quote (Shania @ Sep. 20 2008,21:10)

1 Tim 5:11-15 11 As for younger widows, do not put them on such a list. For when their sensual desires overcome their dedication to Christ, they want to marry. 12 Thus they bring judgment on themselves, because they have broken their first pledge. 13 Besides, they get into the habit of being idle and going about from house to house. And not only do they become idlers, but also gossips and busybodies, saying things they ought not to. 14 So I counsel younger widows to marry, to have children, to manage their homes and to give the enemy no opportunity for slander. 15 Some have in fact already turned away to follow Satan. NIV “give the enemy no opportunity for slander” Our flesh slanders us? The truth of the matter is that this goes back to the legality that I was talking about with the book of Job. The “enemy” is called the “accuser.” If he is able to find deciet in us, he “accuses” us before the Judge. Paul is trying to keep the young widows from bringing judgement on themselves: “Thus they bring judgment on themselves” [The stupid behavior that follows this will give the enemy a chance to “slander” them, and they will be judged. This could be easily avoided if they re-marry (Paul says)] Our flesh does not accuse or slander us. Our flesh wants to be comfortable.

Thanks for your posts Shania, your view I think is really going to help with our investigation as to the identity of the adversary and the devil.

Human beings are capable of slandering other persons, thus human beings are devils.

The Greek word diabolos means the accuser, slanderer, calumniator, backbiter, enemy, one who separates.

The Greek word diabolos was a word in the Greek language to describe HUMAN behavior.

The Greek word diabolos didn't mean a supernatural being who was a liar.

My five year old daughter's brain lies to her all the time, she will constantly declare that she is something that she is not, this is not because some supernatural being has put ideas in her head, it is simply because that which she desires to be is so strong it get's in the way of her reality. Not only do people lie about other people they lie about themselves in their own vanity, thus they are devils to themselves and to others.

John 6:70 Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!”

Jesus calls man a devil!

Ac 10:38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him.

Remember the Greek word for devil is diablos and it stands for liar, slanderer, enemy, one who separates.

So who is the devil here in Acts 10:38 in which people are suffering from? Let's see it could be powerful Jews or the Roman government that oppressed people, leaving them starved and malnourished. Jesus could also be healing people from the devil within, people facing horrible internal struggles where desires have given way to uncontrollable addictions.

[NickHassan]

Hi Jodi,
You would not have to seek for other meanings if you could grasp the simple one.
Flesh and blood are not the primary enemy of God or His people.

[NickHassan]

Hi Jodi,
Ephesians 6:12
For our struggle is not against flesh and blood,

NOT

but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.

HEAVENLY PLACES

[Jodi]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 21 2008,15:34)

Hi Jodi, Ephesians 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, NOT but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places. HEAVENLY PLACES

How does your interpretation make any sense given, the words of Jesus?

Matthew 5:28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.

There are many scriptures that warn us against following our flesh.

Ro 6:19 In the manner of men I speak, because of the weakness of your flesh, for even as ye did present your members servants to the uncleanness and to the lawlessness — to the lawlessness, so now present your members servants to the righteousness — to sanctification,

Ro 7:5 for when we were in the flesh, the passions of the sins, that [are] through the law, were working in our members, to bear fruit to the death;

Ro 7:25 I thank God — through Jesus Christ our Lord; so then, I myself indeed with the mind do serve the law of God, and with the flesh, the law of sin.

Ro 8:3 or what the law was not able to do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God, His own Son having sent in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, did condemn the sin in the flesh,

Ro 8:4 that the righteousness of the law may be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

Ro 8:5 For those who are according to the flesh, the things of the flesh do mind; and those according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit;

Ro 8:6 for the mind of the flesh [is] death, and the mind of the Spirit — life and peace;

Ro 8:7 because the mind of the flesh [is] enmity to God, for to the law of God it doth not subject itself,

Ro 8:8 for neither is it able; and those who are in the flesh are not able to please God.

Ro 9:8 that is, the children of the flesh — these [are] not children of God; but the children of the promise are reckoned for seed;

Romans 13:12 the night did advance, and the day came nigh; let us lay aside, therefore, the works of the darkness, and let us put on the armour of the light; 13 as in day-time, let us walk becomingly; not in revellings and drunkennesses, not in chamberings and lasciviousnesses, not in strife and emulation; 14 but put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and for the flesh take no forethought — for desires.

2 Corinthians 7:1 Having, then, these promises, beloved, may we cleanse ourselves from every pollution of flesh and spirit, perfecting sanctification in the fear of God;

Ga 5:16 And I say: In the Spirit walk ye, and the desire of the flesh ye may not complete;

Ga 5:17 for the flesh doth desire contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit contrary to the flesh, and these are opposed one to another, that the things that ye may will — these ye may not do;

Ga 5:19 And manifest also are the works of the flesh, which are: Adultery, whoredom, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

Ga 5:24 and those who are Christ's, the flesh did crucify with the affections, and the desires;

Ga 6:8 because he who is sowing to his own flesh, of the flesh shall reap corruption; and he who is sowing to the Spirit, of the Spirit shall reap life age-during;

Eph 2:3 among whom also we all did walk once in the desires of our flesh, doing the wishes of the flesh and of the thoughts, and were by nature children of wrath — as also the others,

Eph 2:15 the enmity in his flesh, the law of the commands in ordinances having done away, that the two he might create in himself into one new man, making peace,

Col 2:13 – Show And you — being dead in the trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh — He made alive together with him, having forgiven you all the trespasses,

Col 2:18 let no one beguile you of your prize, delighting in humble-mindedness and [in] worship of the messengers, intruding into the things he hath not seen, being vainly puffed up by the mind of his flesh,

Col 2:23 which are, indeed, having a matter of wisdom in will-worship, and humble-mindedness, and neglecting of body — not in any honour, unto a satisfying of the flesh.

Colossians 2:11 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ,

1Pe 3:21 also to which an antitype doth now save us — baptism, (not a putting away of the filth of flesh, but the question of a good conscience in regard to God,) through the rising again of Jesus Christ,

1Jo 2:16 because all that [is] in the world — the desire of the flesh, and the desire of the eyes, and the ostentation of the life — is not of the Father, but of the world,

Ro 6:6 this knowing, that our old man was crucified with [him], that the body of the sin may be made useless, for our no longer serving the sin;

Ro 6:12 Let not then the sin reign in your mortal body, to obey it in its desires;

Ro 8:10 and if Christ [is] in you, the body, indeed, [is] dead because of sin, and the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness,

You have to look at this chapter in context and not from your false doctrine.

Paul was not worried that the people would fall into sexual immorality or that they would become thieves, or that they would murder. Paul was not worried about his brethren falling into the lusts of their own flesh. He was worried about them facing upcoming persecution.

Ephesians 6:10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. 11 Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. 12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. 13 Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. 14 Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, 15 and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. 16 In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one.

Nick what does heavenly places mean? In the Old Testament it means the position of authority of a human being as well as the prideful mindset of a human being. We also know that Jewish priests are known as heavenly priests and the temple represents God's place of heaven on earth. We are told to 'test the spirits', investigate the false prophets. Spirits represent humans.

Nick Paul tells the people to stand firm in the Lord when the DAY of evil comes. We have gone through this before. Who beat Paul up and put him in prison? Who was the devil about ready to murder or throw Christians into prison? The wicked spirits in the heavenly places represented the Jews who were out to persecute the Christians.

I would not have to seek for other meanings if I would grasp the simple one?

Just what is
the simple understanding to these scriptures according to you Nick?

How is it that WE TODAY wrestle with supernatural beings who are up in heaven?

And for those in the DAY that the evil came, what day was that and what happened on that day?

What happens if the person doesn't even know if the day came and went, since the devil can influence without anyone even knowing it?

If this scripture is specifically speaking to Christians today that we don't wrestle with flesh and blood, then why do we have all those scriptures warning us about our flesh and our desires?

Nick, Jesus gives us a list of sins that come from ourselves, without any outside influence. If your supernatural devil is put to death, we still have a huge problem. So if you think about it your supernatural being is NOT the primary enemy, he is just an influence to the enemy.

[942767]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 21 2008,15:41)

Hi 94, You say ” However, he (the tempter, through the lusts of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and the pride of life) entered into the world through his new house the body of Adam and Eve.” If Satan was IN and speaking through the serpent then he was in the world before Adam and Eve.   They did not create the adversary.

Hi Nick:

Quote

Gen 3:1 ¶ Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

It appears based on this verse that God created the serpent with a “free will” just as he created man with a “free will”.

God did not cause the serpent to tempt Eve that was something that the serpent chose to do. When Adam and Eve obeyed him, they became his servants, and so doesn't the serpent (than spirit operating through men), still come to us saying, “God did not say that” or “that isn't what God meant” or God is a myth etc. But Eve obeyed him when she saw that the tree of knowledge of good and evil, was good for food, pleasant to the eyes, and good to make one wise, and so the serpent can tempt you to sin through the lusts of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and the pride of life.

The serpent wasn't the adversary or satan until he chose to exercise his “free will” and act in opposition to God.

[942767]

Hi:

It appears that anyone who has a “free will” can become an adversary of God by choice yeilding to evil thoughts.  Sometimes that individual my not know that he is acting in opposition to God.  But we as born again Christians know that the serpent is in the garden, and that his purpose is to cause us to lose our relationship with God.

Quote

1Pe 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour

[Author]

Posts