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Jodi and Gen Who was it that tempted Jesus in Math. 4
In Luke 10:18 Jesus saw Satan fall like lighting from heaven. Who was that serpent that gave Eve the Apple to eat?
Acts 5:3 Peter said ” Ananias why has Satan filled your heart with Lie's………
2 Cor. 11:14 And no wonder for Satan himself has transformed himself into an angel of light….
2 Thess. 2:9 The coming of the lawless one, is according to the working of Satan…..I do see a being in all of these Scriptures. I believe that it is IMO dangerous to deny that there is no Satan, that makes it easier for him to deceive all. He only has a little time left when God is going to put him in chains along those with those evil spirits that roam the earth right now.
Jesus will teach finally all truths and peace and love will be present. The earth will finally be at rest, for a thousand years and then God will loose Satan, to test all mankind. And a multitude of mankind will follow him. God will strike them instantly, and they will be no more. The Saints will trample on their ashes. Mica.Rev. 2:9, 2:13, 2:24, 12:9, 20:7Peace and Lve Irene
Quote (Tiffany @ Sep. 19 2008,14:43) Jodi and Gen Who was it that tempted Jesus in Math. 4
In Luke 10:18 Jesus saw Satan fall like lighting from heaven. Who was that serpent that gave Eve the Apple to eat?
Acts 5:3 Peter said ” Ananias why has Satan filled your heart with Lie's………
2 Cor. 11:14 And no wonder for Satan himself has transformed himself into an angel of light….
2 Thess. 2:9 The coming of the lawless one, is according to the working of Satan…..I do see a being in all of these Scriptures. I believe that it is IMO dangerous to deny that there is no Satan, that makes it easier for him to deceive all. He only has a little time left when God is going to put him in chains along those with those evil spirits that roam the earth right now.
Jesus will teach finally all truths and peace and love will be present. The earth will finally be at rest, for a thousand years and then God will loose Satan, to test all mankind. And a multitude of mankind will follow him. God will strike them instantly, and they will be no more. The Saints will trample on their ashes. Mica.Rev. 2:9, 2:13, 2:24, 12:9, 20:7Peace and Lve Irene
Hello Irene,I would like you to give me one example as to how the fallen angel of whom you believe in COULD influence me?
You seem to believe that since I don't believe that fallen angels exist, I am more susceptible to their influence, so tell me how are they going to go about influencing me and what might be one of their influences?
As well, how might I go about getting him to not influence me?
I would appreciate it, if those who also believe that Satan represents a supernatural being if they could answer my questions as well.
Thanks, Jodi
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 19 2008,19:49) Hi Jodi,
What you will not see you cannot see.
That's a pathetic response.Really? Why am I not surprised.
Your post, only further proves my point.
You can't even give ONE example?
Think about what this says,
Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,* who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.
Notice it is not walk according to the influence of a supernatural being, or do not walk allowing a supernatural being to corrupt your flesh, IT IS do not walk according to your flesh. Romans 8 clearly defines our flesh, ALONE as being a GREAT Adversary to us.
Those who LIVE according tooooooo THEIR FLESH, SET THEIR MINDS on the flesh. This is called being carnally minded and it is death.
The law was weak through the flesh, not through the influence of a supernatural being. If you live according to the flesh does not mean that you are letting a supernatural being influence your flesh. It SAYS, those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the flesh. The message here is that just being in our own bodies, our own flesh and blood is against God. There is NO mention here of any sort of supernatural being. Just us and our flesh being the adversary.
I will ask this question again, since Jesus says that all these sins come from within man – murder, theft, fornication, adultery, lewdness, pride, evil thoughts, lying, deceit, foolishness, blasphemy, and covetousness, THEN what is left that a supernatural being can influence us to sin that we can’t already do OURSELVES. HUH?
I think that is your problem Nick, along with others, you guys can't point to a sin that can't be EASILY otherwise explained as coming from within the person themselves out of their OWN lack of self control over their OWN passions and desires.
Think about what this says,
Galatians 5:13 For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. 14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 15 But if you bite and devour one another, beware lest you be consumed by one another! 16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.
Notice it does not say opportunity for a supernatural being but rather it is the flesh that we must not give opportunity to. The flesh is the adversary because of it's own lusts.
Lust comes FROM the flesh. We don't need a supernatural being to cause us to lust.
James 4:1 Where do wars and fights come from among you? Do they not come from your desires for pleasure that war in your members? 2 You lust and do not have. You murder and covet and cannot obtain.
Once again we see it is our flesh that is our enemy. Sinful lusts and desires come, according to scripture, through our own flesh.
These are really only a few examples from the bible that directly relate the influence of our flesh over our minds to cause us to sin.
There is not one example however or mention of a supernatural creature as being the influence to our sin.
So I ask which is obviously the more likely adversary? The one that is repeatedly mentioned and warned against in the bible, especially by Paul, or the adversary that does not exist in the bible just in the traditions and beliefs of man?
Hi Jodi,
Do you think the vessel of flesh is the problem and not the occupants?
Strange really because this old body goes back to dust.
Or is it the soul of man that is irreparable?Jodi,
Traditions run deep, sis.
Your study is hearty and convincing. I confess that since I have began studying this subject and other's I've seen how tradition has set me up with convictions nursed by fear of letting go of them.
Mandy
James 1:13-15
13 When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me .” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14 but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. 15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.
NIVEph 4:26-27
26 “In your anger do not sin”: Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry, 27 and do not give the devil a foothold .
NIVWe sin by making a conscious decision to prefer our flesh over what God wants for us. It is “our own evil desires.” If we harbour evil desires in our heart, we are “giving the devil a foothold” [all he wants to attack is our walk]
The book of Job has been spoken of, and I believe that there are some misunderstandings…
There is a legality to the Kingdom. If you desire evil, you are giving the enemy a legal right to entice you to sin. If your heart and motives are pure, he has nothing to grab onto- no foothold. Satan can only do what YHWH will let him do. That is why he had to ask permission to smite Job. YHWH let satan do this because YHWH knew Job's heart but Job did not.
Jer 17:9-10
9 The heart is deceitful above all things
and beyond cure.
Who can understand it?10 “I the LORD search the heart
and examine the mind,
to reward a man according to his conduct,
according to what his deeds deserve.”
NIVThe darkness that was in Job's heart had to be exposed for what it was. Then, he could see it and change. Our Father does this with us as well. His discipline is His love. If our darkness was never exposed, we would never change and we would never be able to fellowship with Him because light does not abide with darkness.
Eph 5:10-18
11 Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret. 13 But everything exposed by the light becomes visible, 14 for it is light that makes everything visible. This is why it is said:“Wake up, O sleeper ,
rise from the dead,
and Christ will shine on you.”15 Be very careful, then, how you live — not as unwise but as wise, 16 making the most of every opportunity, because the days are evil. 17 Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord's will is.
NIVJodi, I believe that you are right in that if there were no evil in us, we would not sin.
However, I believe that Satan exists and the only way that he can have power over anybody is through their flesh. I also believe that God uses Satan to accomplish his works.
Heb 2:17-3:1
18 Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.NIV
Heb 2:1010 In bringing many sons to glory, it was fitting that God, for whom and through whom everything exists, should make the author of their salvation perfect through suffering
NIVQuote (Jodi @ Sep. 21 2008,08:46) These are really only a few examples from the bible that directly relate the influence of our flesh over our minds to cause us to sin. There is not one example however or mention of a supernatural creature as being the influence to our sin.
This is because sin is a heart issue. The problem is not the sin, it is what is in our hearts, which the sin exposes.Sin shows us what we love. It shows us that we care more about our selfishness than pleasing our Father.
The devil cannot make us do anything. If he did, we would not be held responsible for our sin. Sin is our choice, and we are resposible for it.
The devil, however, is able to lead us to the water. We make the choice to drink.
Matt 4:3
3 The tempter came to him and said, “If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.”
NIVDoes our flesh “come to us”
or “speak” to us?Matt 4:5-6
5 Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. 6 “If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down.
NIVCan our flesh take us places and then command us to do things?
Matt 4:8-9
8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. 9 “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.”
NIVSo Jesus' flesh took him to a high mountain and offered him the kingdoms of the world? Our flesh owns kingdoms of the world?
Matt 4:1111 Then the devil left him
NIVCan our flesh leave us?
Good points Shania. But I ask you one think who is this Satan or Devil ? Is he having supernatural powers like God to be an adversary of God ? Who created this great Satan and when was he ever created ?
Peace and love to you
AdamLucifer was created beautiful, until iniquity was found in him. Jesus saw Satan fall from heaven like lightening.
IreneQuote (Shania @ Sep. 19 2008,22:22) Matt 4:3
3 The tempter came to him and said, “If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.”
NIVDoes our flesh “come to us”
or “speak” to us?Matt 4:5-6
5 Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. 6 “If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down.
NIVCan our flesh take us places and then command us to do things?
Matt 4:8-9
8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. 9 “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.”
NIVSo Jesus' flesh took him to a high mountain and offered him the kingdoms of the world? Our flesh owns kingdoms of the world?
Matt 4:1111 Then the devil left him
NIVCan our flesh leave us?
Hello Shania,Thanks so much for posting. Actually I would like to thank everyone for continuing this debate with me.
Shania you said, ” does our flesh “come to us” or “speak” to us?”
I believe that both are true. Situations make our flesh come to us, or as I'd rather put it, situations cause our flesh to rise up. On a daily bases situations turn on a fleshly reaction, how we respond to that reaction is according to our brain. Our previous experiences and knowledge stored in our brain determines how we do or do not control our flesh's reaction to the situation or stimulus.
The situation was Jesus was in the wilderness and had gone without food for many days. God's will was for Jesus not to use the powers He gave him for his own self. Through lack of food Jesus's flesh was being tested by God. This is very similar to the test that God gave the Israelites after they were freed and sent into the wilderness where food was scarce. The second that the Israelites realized how endangered they were because of lack of food they were ready to turn their backs on the God who just freed them through great signs and wonders. It did not take a fallen angel for the Israelites to have doubt and to fear their lives, thus denying God. All it took was a period of time without food. Thus it was their need to serve their flesh with food that caused them to complain to Moses about God. The LACK OF FOOD, is what caused the devil to come to Jesus. The lack of food is what aroused the temptation in Jesus to turn stone into bread. Let's stop for a minute and think about what often happens to people when they have a low blood sugar level. Man, they can be down right mean and terrible, and that's only because it's been a few hours since their last meal. People who go forty days without eating, if that is even still possible, become completely delirious. This would explain Jesus's behavior, for it was his lack of food that made his nature all the more weak, thus making within himself the adversary come out of his flesh and be draw to his mind into temptation and deception. The adversary came to its dwelling place, going from the weak flesh into the mind. Because of God's Spirit working in Jesus the mind was able to cut off the adversary, which was his weak flesh.
Shania, you said, “Can our flesh take us places and then command us to do things?”
I don't know about you but whenever I go somewhere it is through the decision I have made in my brain, and when I make a decision that decision is weighed according to the information within my brain. Shania, do you think that after going days and days without food that you might go and do and say things you might not normally do?
Jesus had a battle going on, a war in his members, for his mind had been filled with the power and knowledge of God, but yet his body was weak and suffering with starvation. First, Christ thought about food, one of our basic needs, finally he thought about power and control, instincts God gave even to the animals, such as the snake. The brief second that Christ contemplated that he could rule the kingdoms of the world was coming out of the deception of his own brain, where desire can give way to truth and reality. Jesus however did not let his weak flesh rule over his mind and actions. God's Spirit of knowledge and truth working in the brain of Jesus worked to deny his flesh , thus denying the adversary.
Instead of using God's powers to feed his fleshly desires, which were aroused through starvation, Jesus used them to deny his fleshly desires and passions.
Once Jesus took control over the thoughts in his brain that were being aroused by his flesh, his desires to serve his flesh left him and he continued his walk serving God's Will.
Quote (Tiffany @ Sep. 20 2008,00:38) Lucifer was created beautiful, until iniquity was found in him. Jesus saw Satan fall from heaven like lightening.
Irene
You mean the King of Babylon who was likened to the planet Venus was created beautiful until iniquity was found in him?Irene you might find it interesting to know that in the early days of the RCC the doctrine of the fall of Lucifer had not yet been invented, and that the name Lucifer was used by the church as another name for Jesus, of which they sang songs to Jesus under the name Lucifer. Bishops even renamed themselves Lucifer, as it stood for day star, or light bearer.
Hi,
Certainly if you ignore the teaching of Jesus Christ the reflections of Satan become dimmer.
Jesus Christ is the teacher of those in his body.
Why not listen to him?Hi Jodi,
We realise you have convinced yourself on this matter.
Do you have no interest in any other threads?Quote (Jodi @ Sep. 20 2008,20:03) Quote (Shania @ Sep. 19 2008,22:22) Matt 4:3
3 The tempter came to him and said, “If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.”
NIVDoes our flesh “come to us”
or “speak” to us?Matt 4:5-6
5 Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. 6 “If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down.
NIVCan our flesh take us places and then command us to do things?
Matt 4:8-9
8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. 9 “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.”
NIVSo Jesus' flesh took him to a high mountain and offered him the kingdoms of the world? Our flesh owns kingdoms of the world?
Matt 4:1111 Then the devil left him
NIVCan our flesh leave us?
Hello Shania,Thanks so much for posting. Actually I would like to thank everyone for continuing this debate with me.
Shania you said, ” does our flesh “come to us” or “speak” to us?”
I believe that both are true. Situations make our flesh come to us, or as I'd rather put it, situations cause our flesh to rise up. On a daily bases situations turn on a fleshly reaction, how we respond to that reaction is according to our brain. Our previous experiences and knowledge stored in our brain determines how we do or do not control our flesh's reaction to the situation or stimulus.
The situation was Jesus was in the wilderness and had gone without food for many days. God's will was for Jesus not to use the powers He gave him for his own self. Through lack of food Jesus's flesh was being tested by God. This is very similar to the test that God gave the Israelites after they were freed and sent into the wilderness where food was scarce. The second that the Israelites realized how endangered they were because of lack of food they were ready to turn their backs on the God who just freed them through great signs and wonders. It did not take a fallen angel for the Israelites to have doubt and to fear their lives, thus denying God. All it took was a period of time without food. Thus it was their need to serve their flesh with food that caused them to complain to Moses about God. The LACK OF FOOD, is what caused the devil to come to Jesus. The lack of food is what aroused the temptation in Jesus to turn stone into bread. Let's stop for a minute and think about what often happens to people when they have a low blood sugar level. Man, they can be down right mean and terrible, and that's only because it's been a few hours since their last meal. People who go forty days without eating, if that is even still possible, become completely delirious. This would explain Jesus's behavior, for it was his lack of food that made his nature all the more weak, thus making within himself the adversary come out of his flesh and be draw to his mind into temptation and deception. The adversary came to its dwelling place, going from the weak flesh into the mind. Because of God's Spirit working in Jesus the mind was able to cut off the adversary, which was his weak flesh.
Shania, you said, “Can our flesh take us places and then command us to do things?”
I don't know about you but whenever I go somewhere it is through the decision I have made in my brain, and when I make a decision that decision is weighed according to the information within my brain. Shania, do you think that after going days and days without food that you might go and do and say things you might not normally do?
Jesus had a battle going on, a war in his members, for his mind had been filled with the power and knowledge of God, but yet his body was weak and suffering with starvation. First, Christ thought about food, one of our basic needs, finally he thought about power and control, instincts God gave even to the animals, such as the snake. The brief second that Christ contemplated that he could rule the kingdoms of the world was coming out of the deception of his own brain, where desire can give way to truth and reality. Jesus however did not let his weak flesh rule over his mind and actions. God's Spirit of knowledge and truth working in the brain of Jesus worked to deny his flesh , thus denying the adversary.
Instead of using God's powers to feed his fleshly desires, which were aroused through starvation, Jesus used them to deny his fleshly desires and passions.
Once Jesus took control over the thoughts in his brain that were being aroused by his flesh, his desires to serve his flesh left him and he continued his walk serving God's Will.
Jodi….Amen, Amen, sister you certainly have nailed it. If only these people could understand it.How plain the SPIRIT OF GOD makes things.Love and peace and continued revelation of the truth to you SIS>
gene
Quote (Tiffany @ Sep. 20 2008,19:38) Lucifer was created beautiful, until iniquity was found in him. Jesus saw Satan fall from heaven like lightening.
Irene
Actually…lucifer and satan are two different things…lucifer is referring to the babylonian dynasty….That the description “shining one” is given to a man and not to a spirit creature is further seen by the statement: “Down to Sheol you will be brought.”Sheol is the common grave of mankind—not a place occupied by Satan the Devil. Moreover, those seeing Lucifer brought into this condition ask: “Is this the man that was agitating the earth?” Clearly, “Lucifer” refers to a human, not to a spirit creature…
You can thank the KJV and a misinterpretation of the latin vulgate for your misunderstanding Irene
Quote (Jodi @ Sep. 20 2008,20:03) Quote (Shania @ Sep. 19 2008,22:22) Matt 4:3
3 The tempter came to him and said, “If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.”
NIVDoes our flesh “come to us”
or “speak” to us?Matt 4:5-6
5 Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. 6 “If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down.
NIVCan our flesh take us places and then command us to do things?
Matt 4:8-9
8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. 9 “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.”
NIVSo Jesus' flesh took him to a high mountain and offered him the kingdoms of the world? Our flesh owns kingdoms of the world?
Matt 4:1111 Then the devil left him
NIVCan our flesh leave us?
Hello Shania,Thanks so much for posting. Actually I would like to thank everyone for continuing this debate with me.
Shania you said, ” does our flesh “come to us” or “speak” to us?”
I believe that both are true. Situations make our flesh come to us, or as I'd rather put it, situations cause our flesh to rise up. On a daily bases situations turn on a fleshly reaction, how we respond to that reaction is according to our brain. Our previous experiences and knowledge stored in our brain determines how we do or do not control our flesh's reaction to the situation or stimulus.
The situation was Jesus was in the wilderness and had gone without food for many days. God's will was for Jesus not to use the powers He gave him for his own self. Through lack of food Jesus's flesh was being tested by God. This is very similar to the test that God gave the Israelites after they were freed and sent into the wilderness where food was scarce. The second that the Israelites realized how endangered they were because of lack of food they were ready to turn their backs on the God who just freed them through great signs and wonders. It did not take a fallen angel for the Israelites to have doubt and to fear their lives, thus denying God. All it took was a period of time without food. Thus it was their need to serve their flesh with food that caused them to complain to Moses about God. The LACK OF FOOD, is what caused the devil to come to Jesus. The lack of food is what aroused the temptation in Jesus to turn stone into bread. Let's stop for a minute and think about what often happens to people when they have a low blood sugar level. Man, they can be down right mean and terrible, and that's only because it's been a few hours since their last meal. People who go forty days without eating, if that is even still possible, become completely delirious. This would explain Jesus's behavior, for it was his lack of food that made his nature all the more weak, thus making within himself the adversary come out of his flesh and be draw to his mind into temptation and deception. The adversary came to its dwelling place, going from the weak flesh into the mind. Because of God's Spirit working in Jesus the mind was able to cut off the adversary, which was his weak flesh.
Shania, you said, “Can our flesh take us places and then command us to do things?”
I don't know about you but whenever I go somewhere it is through the decision I have made in my brain, and when I make a decision that decision is weighed according to the information within my brain. Shania, do you think that after going days and days without food that you might go and do and say things you might not normally do?
Jesus had a battle going on, a war in his members, for his mind had been filled with the power and knowledge of God, but yet his body was weak and suffering with starvation. First, Christ thought about food, one of our basic needs, finally he thought about power and control, instincts God gave even to the animals, such as the snake. The brief second that Christ contemplated that he could rule the kingdoms of the world was coming out of the deception of his own brain, where desire can give way to truth and reality. Jesus however did not let his weak flesh rule over his mind and actions. God's Spirit of knowledge and truth working in the brain of Jesus worked to deny his flesh , thus denying the adversary.
Instead of using God's powers to feed his fleshly desires, which were aroused through starvation, Jesus used them to deny his fleshly desires and passions.
Once Jesus took control over the thoughts in his brain that were being aroused by his flesh, his desires to serve his flesh left him and he continued his walk serving God's Will.
…Hi:
Quote 1Jo 2:15 ¶ Love not the world, neither the things [that are] in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
1Jo 2:16 For all that [is] in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.Quote Mat 4:1 ¶ Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil. Mat 4:2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.
Mat 4:3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread. (lust of the flesh)
Mat 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Mat 4:5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,
Mat 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in [their] hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone. (Pride of life)
Mat 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; (lust of the eyes)
Mat 4:9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
Mat 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve
Again, this spirit entered into the world through Eve and Adam.
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