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Quote (Jodi @ Sep. 19 2008,10:33) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 18 2008,15:09) Jodi Jodi,Sep. wrote:Who is the one being deceptive?
Who is the one trying to plead that false gods do exist?
The Old Testament is CLEAR, there is no other supernatural being in existence that has His powers.
Yes I see you are still living in the OT with no NT revelation. Yeshua came and revealed the Old in the New.
Quote (Jodi @ Sep. 19 2008,09:01)
The bible says that YHWH is the ONLY supernatural being who can bring darkness, calamity, pain, suffering, and indignation.So let me see if I understand. When a little girl is being raped and experiences pain and suffering and calamity and darkness then YHWH did that to her?
Lies!
WJ
Jodi
Quote (Jodi @ Sep. 19 2008,10:33) [WJ, give me a break. Oh, so according to YOU WJ, the Old Testament is just a bunch of LIES?
Why don't you spend a little more time trying to understand a person's position before you say such stupid stuff like, “When a little girl is being raped and experiences pain and suffering and calamity and darkness then YHWH did that to her?”
Good, maybe we are getting some where. So then YHWH is not the author of evil?
So then it is entirely possible for men to be under the influence of an evil wicked being with supernatural powers.
Quote (Jodi @ Sep. 19 2008,10:33) I really don't know what to say to you right now. I am completely baffled!
Did I say that God is to blame for people's sins?
The Old Testament establishes that there is No other Supernatural being that can bring on darkness and create calamity. He controls the weather bringing on famines and floods, He creates diseases and inflicts them.
This is completely different from the darkness of sin, which comes from within man as Jesus tells us. A man who rapes has several problems going on inside him, one being that he cannot control his over the top desire for authority and domination.
Then if YHWH only has these supernatural powers then who is this…?And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by [the means of] those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. Rev 13:11-14
Are you saying this is YHWH? The beast and the dragon were thrown into the lake of fire. They had power to decieve with all lying signs and wonders.
Quote (Jodi @ Sep. 19 2008,10:33)
The Old Testament establishes that there is No other Supernatural being that can bring on darkness and create calamity. He controls the weather bringing on famines and floods, He creates diseases and inflicts them.This is completely different from the darkness of sin, which comes from within man as Jesus tells us. A man who rapes has several problems going on inside him, one being that he cannot control his over the top desire for authority and domination.
So there is a difference in evil spirits, satan and man.God does not with his own hands afllict men of the evils you speak of. He “allows” a supernatural being like satan to commit evil as the book of Job teaches.
The whole world is under the influence of the god of this world who has blinded their minds.
WJ
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 19 2008,10:35) Hi wJ,
Was Jesus the Son of Man?
As a son of Man did he have any advantage over us?
Was Mary perfect also so that the genes of his flesh were not contaminated and overcoming easy?
NHIf the body of Jesus was tainted with sin then the sacrifice could not be pure!
He is the pure Lamb of God without blemish!
WJ
Quote (Jodi @ Sep. 19 2008,10:33) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 18 2008,15:09) Jodi Quote (Jodi @ Sep. 19 2008,09:01)
Who is the one being deceptive?Who is the one trying to plead that false gods do exist?
The Old Testament is CLEAR, there is no other supernatural being in existence that has His powers.
Yes I see you are still living in the OT with no NT revelation. Yeshua came and revealed the Old in the New.
Quote (Jodi @ Sep. 19 2008,09:01)
The bible says that YHWH is the ONLY supernatural being who can bring darkness, calamity, pain, suffering, and indignation.So let me see if I understand. When a little girl is being raped and experiences pain and suffering and calamity and darkness then YHWH did that to her?
Lies!
WJ
WJ, give me a break.Oh, so according to YOU WJ, the Old Testament is just a bunch of LIES?
Why don't you spend a little more time trying to understand a person's position before you say such stupid stuff like, “When a little girl is being raped and experiences pain and suffering and calamity and darkness then YHWH did that to her?”
I really don't know what to say to you right now.
I am completely baffled!
Did I say that God is to blame for people's sins?
The Old Testament establishes that there is No other Supernatural being that can bring on darkness and create calamity. He controls the weather bringing on famines and floods, He creates diseases and inflicts them.
This is completely different from the darkness of sin, which comes from within man as Jesus tells us. A man who rapes has several problems going on inside him, one being that he cannot control his over the top desire for authority and domination.
actually…what WJ said is exactly what you are saying Jodi…YOu and a fews others believe that GOD is the creator of ALL evil..therefore he by your theory he would be ultimately responsible for the little girls rape…
Let me give you an example…
Say I created the worlds most addictive drug…lets call this drug JODI…If after creating this drug JODI I proceed to give JODI to people knowing that…JODI's untameable addictive qualities would cause people to do all kinds of evil things under its influence..Am I responsible? ABSOLUTELY!!!!
Would the “cesar's” courts hold me responsible? ABSOLUTELY
Would GOD? YOU BET
Its the same with what you, Gene, Chosen, and a few others attribute to GOD…
If GOD planned all of this from the beginning…then GOD is ultimately responsible for EVERY action that takes place on earth..simple as that…
All and I can say to that is..exactly what WJ said……LIES!!!!
DK, how is it any different then if sin comes from a supernatural being and not strictly from man.
God created the angels as well as us, right?
I did not say that All evil comes from God. God's evil, that is seen as such by man, is discipline and it works towards a righteous purpose. Man's evil is an act of selfishness and it works to create more wickedness and injustice.
This is what I have said, that I BELIEVE these scriptures-
Deut 30: 19,” ….I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing;”
Deut 28:15 “But it shall come to pass, if you do not obey the voice of the Lord your God, to observe carefully all His commandments and His statutes which I command you today, that all these curses will come upon you and overtake you: 16 Cursed shall you be in the city, and cursed shall you be in the country. 17 Cursed shall be your basket and your kneading bowl. 18 Cursed shall be the fruit of your body and the produce of your land, the increase of your cattle and the offspring of your flocks. 19 Cursed shall you be when you come in, and cursed shall you be when you go out. 20 “The Lord will send on you cursing, confusion, and rebuke in all that you set your hand to do, until you are destroyed and until you perish quickly, because of the wickedness of your doings in which you have forsaken Me. 21 The Lord will make the plague cling to you until He has consumed you from the land which you are going to possess. 22 The Lord will strike you with consumption, with fever, with inflammation, with severe burning fever, with the sword, with scorching, and with mildew; they shall pursue you until you perish. 23 And your heavens which are over your head shall be bronze, and the earth which is under you shall be iron. 24 The Lord will change the rain of your land to powder and dust; from the heaven it shall come down on you until you are destroyed. 25 The Lord will cause you to be defeated before your enemies; you shall go out one way against them and flee seven ways before them; and you shall become troublesome to all the kingdoms of the earth. 26 Your carcasses shall be food for all the birds of the air and the beasts of the earth, and no one shall frighten them away. 27 The Lord will strike you with the boils of Egypt, with tumors, with the scab, and with the itch, from which you cannot be healed. 28 The Lord will strike you with madness and blindness and confusion of heart. 29 And you shall grope at noonday, as a blind man gropes in darkness; you shall not prosper in your ways; you shall be only oppressed and plundered continually, and no one shall save you.
Isaiah 45:6-7 “That they may know from the rising of the sun to its setting that there is none besides Me. I am the Lord, and there is no other; I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I the Lord do all these things.”
Mark 7:20 And He said, “What comes out of a man, that defiles a man. 21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22 thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lewdness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness. 23 All these evil things come from within and defile a man.”
Romans 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
James 1:4 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed.
Matthew 5:28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.
Eph 2:3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
James 4:1 Where do wars and fights come from among you? Do they not come from your desires for pleasure that war in your members?
Quote (Jodi @ Sep. 19 2008,11:54) DK, how is it any different then if sin comes from a supernatural being and not strictly from man. God created the angels as well as us, right?
I did not say that All evil comes from God. God's evil, that is seen as such by man, is discipline and it works towards a righteous purpose. Man's evil is an act of selfishness and it works to create more wickedness and injustice.
This is what I have said, that I BELIEVE these scriptures-
Deut 30: 19,” ….I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing;”
Deut 28:15 “But it shall come to pass, if you do not obey the voice of the Lord your God, to observe carefully all His commandments and His statutes which I command you today, that all these curses will come upon you and overtake you: 16 Cursed shall you be in the city, and cursed shall you be in the country. 17 Cursed shall be your basket and your kneading bowl. 18 Cursed shall be the fruit of your body and the produce of your land, the increase of your cattle and the offspring of your flocks. 19 Cursed shall you be when you come in, and cursed shall you be when you go out. 20 “The Lord will send on you cursing, confusion, and rebuke in all that you set your hand to do, until you are destroyed and until you perish quickly, because of the wickedness of your doings in which you have forsaken Me. 21 The Lord will make the plague cling to you until He has consumed you from the land which you are going to possess. 22 The Lord will strike you with consumption, with fever, with inflammation, with severe burning fever, with the sword, with scorching, and with mildew; they shall pursue you until you perish. 23 And your heavens which are over your head shall be bronze, and the earth which is under you shall be iron. 24 The Lord will change the rain of your land to powder and dust; from the heaven it shall come down on you until you are destroyed. 25 The Lord will cause you to be defeated before your enemies; you shall go out one way against them and flee seven ways before them; and you shall become troublesome to all the kingdoms of the earth. 26 Your carcasses shall be food for all the birds of the air and the beasts of the earth, and no one shall frighten them away. 27 The Lord will strike you with the boils of Egypt, with tumors, with the scab, and with the itch, from which you cannot be healed. 28 The Lord will strike you with madness and blindness and confusion of heart. 29 And you shall grope at noonday, as a blind man gropes in darkness; you shall not prosper in your ways; you shall be only oppressed and plundered continually, and no one shall save you.
Isaiah 45:6-7 “That they may know from the rising of the sun to its setting that there is none besides Me. I am the Lord, and there is no other; I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I the Lord do all these things.”
Mark 7:20 And He said, “What comes out of a man, that defiles a man. 21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22 thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lewdness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness. 23 All these evil things come from within and defile a man.”
Romans 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
James 1:4 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed.
Matthew 5:28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.
Eph 2:3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
James 4:1 Where do wars and fights come from among you? Do they not come from your desires for pleasure that war in your members?
Jodi..my friend…you still have not figured out what we are saying…you say the Devil does not cause you to sin…I AGREE WITH YOU…our sinful nature, carmal minds, and deceitful hearts do….but where we disagree is that although I don't think the devil CAUSES us to sin..the bible says he defintely INFLUENCES us..here is proofGenesis 3:1
[ The Fall of Man ] Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, 'You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?”Matthew 4:1
[ The Temptation of Jesus ] Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the desert to be tempted by the devil.John 13:2
The evening meal was being served, and the devil had already prompted Judas Iscariot, son of Simon, to betray Jesus.John 8:44
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.Acts 10:38
how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him.Ephesians 4:27
and do not give the devil a foothold.Ephesians 6:11
Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes.1 Timothy 3:7
He must also have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil's trap.2 Timothy 2:26
and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.James 3:14-16
14But if you harbor bitter envy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast about it or deny the truth. 15Such “wisdom” does not come down from heaven but is earthly, unspiritual, of the devil. 16For where you have envy and selfish ambition, there you find disorder and every evil practice.Luke 22:3
Then Satan entered Judas, called Iscariot, one of the Twelve.Acts 5:3
Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land?1 Corinthians 7:5
Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.2 Corinthians 2:11
in order that Satan might not outwit us. For we are not unaware of his schemes.2 Corinthians 12:7
To keep me from becoming conceited because of these surpassingly great revelations, there was given me a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me.2 Thessalonians 2:9
The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders,and for the FINALLY
Revelation 12:9
The great dragon was hurled down—
that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 19 2008,11:58) Hi JOdi,
So those scripture are to be believed ahead of the teachings from our Master?
Nick…..where did Jesus ever go against those scriptures Jodi, quoted. In your confusion now your trying to say Jesus was against what is written. Interesting!. In fact in Isa 45:6-7 the word Jodi quotes as calamity is actually (EVIL) God plainly said He created EVIL. rah, raw-aw' and is pronounced over 600 hundred times as EVIL.The tree of good and evil was created by GOD Himself, He is the (ONLY) CREATOR THERE IS. As long as life exists there will be a potential for evil to rise, Thats why we must have GOD”S SPIRIT to be In us and remain in us for ever. To keep us from sinning. Whosoever is born of the spirit (can not sin) because HIS SEED REMAINS in HIM.
Nick….i never did not accept him it you misunderstand of what he was talking about thats the problem, the question of his master ship was never a question to me or Jodi or Newton as FAR AS THAT GOES.
GM,
So your teacher saw Satan falling from heaven.
He did not see a bunch of intellects falling.
So what did he see?Nick….what Jesus saw was the adversarial spirit in man fall from his high self esteem (heavenly state) to a low earthly state. I fact, if you can recieve it, that state was even in his Carnal mind and he cast it down in himself, and overcame it.
You can see something in you mind and it not be a actual physical object, and this was case that Jesus was talking from . He foresaw the adversarial spirit in man being cast down and overcome from its self exalted high position. imo
GB,
There are millions of men.
Does each have such a tumbling spirit?
Or is there one such spirit that controls carnal men?GB,
It is amazing that you know what Jesus REALLY saw without him telling us.
Did he see such a spirit falling from heaven or just within himself?nick….show me one place where any human being ever carried on a conversation with SATAN external of himself. The only place i know of is when Jesus said Peter was SATAN, and that alone should tell you what a SATAN is. It is the state of the carnal mind as Jesus identified in PETER.
GB,
Does it bother you that walking so far away from what is written in scripture takes you into your own doctrines?Nick…..what bothers me is people like you who have no idea what they are talking about and can only see things through carnal eyes , who are unable to see the spiritual symbolisms in scriptures , but Jesus said that seeing they see not hearing they hear not, this to me would apply in your case, you Just can;t understand spiritual things, but only physical things. imo
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 18 2008,16:03) Quote (Jodi @ Sep. 19 2008,10:33) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 18 2008,15:09) Jodi Jodi,Sep. wrote:Who is the one being deceptive?
Who is the one trying to plead that false gods do exist?
The Old Testament is CLEAR, there is no other supernatural being in existence that has His powers.
Yes I see you are still living in the OT with no NT revelation. Yeshua came and revealed the Old in the New.
Quote (Jodi @ Sep. 19 2008,09:01)
The bible says that YHWH is the ONLY supernatural being who can bring darkness, calamity, pain, suffering, and indignation.So let me see if I understand. When a little girl is being raped and experiences pain and suffering and calamity and darkness then YHWH did that to her?
Lies!
WJ
Jodi
Quote (Jodi @ Sep. 19 2008,10:33) [WJ, give me a break. Oh, so according to YOU WJ, the Old Testament is just a bunch of LIES?
Why don't you spend a little more time trying to understand a person's position before you say such stupid stuff like, “When a little girl is being raped and experiences pain and suffering and calamity and darkness then YHWH did that to her?”
Good, maybe we are getting some where. So then YHWH is not the author of evil?
So then it is entirely possible for men to be under the influence of an evil wicked being with supernatural powers.
Quote (Jodi @ Sep. 19 2008,10:33) I really don't know what to say to you right now. I am completely baffled!
Did I say that God is to blame for people's sins?
The Old Testament establishes that there is No other Supernatural being that can bring on darkness and create calamity. He controls the weather bringing on famines and floods, He creates diseases and inflicts them.
This is completely different from the darkness of sin, which comes from within man as Jesus tells us. A man who rapes has several problems going on inside him, one being that he cannot control his over the top desire for authority and domination.
Then if YHWH only has these supernatural powers then who is this…?And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by [the means of] those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. Rev 13:11-14
Are you saying this is YHWH? The beast and the dragon were thrown into the lake of fire. They had power to decieve with all lying signs and wonders.
Quote (Jodi @ Sep. 19 2008,10:33)
The Old Testament establishes that there is No other Supernatural being that can bring on darkness and create calamity. He controls the weather bringing on famines and floods, He creates diseases and inflicts them.This is completely different from the darkness of sin, which comes from within man as Jesus tells us. A man who rapes has several problems going on inside him, one being that he cannot control his over the top desire for authority and domination.
So there is a difference in evil spirits, satan and man.God does not with his own hands afllict men of the evils you speak of. He “allows” a supernatural being like satan to commit evil as the book of Job teaches.
The whole world is under the influence of the god of this world who has blinded their minds.
WJ
The 'god' of this world is specifically said to be our own nature.Jesus said people do not follow God, but their OWN BELLIES they serve.
Do you understand what that means?
Php 3:19 whose end is destruction, whose god is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame–who set their mind on earthly things.
Earthly things, are the things according to our nature, hence we serve our bellies, the things from our very nature.
All is vanity if you think you are different from the animals. We have the same instincts as they do, these instincts if we serve them create all the evil in the world, this is why our adversary is repeatedly in the bible shown to be from man's flesh.
The influence of evil comes from within our own nature. This is why without God's Spirit and His knowledge working in us we are nothing but brute beasts.
How weak your argument is WJ, and everyone else, who have to keep using Revelation to try and prove your position, taking what is a sign with great symbols and interpreting what you choose to as literal so it fits into a made up story that does not exist in the bible.
God is not the author of sin, neither is some supernatural being.
Ro 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death.
A supernatural being does not arouse our sinful passions. The knowledge of good and evil (the law) arouses the flesh.
WJ, you are confused, and you plain out deny the simple scriptures.
You said, “God does not with his own hands afllict men of the evils you speak of. He “allows” a supernatural being like satan to commit evil as the book of Job teaches.”
First of all, not only does Job attribute his affliction to coming from God, Satan attributes the affliction coming from God as well.
Job 1:9 So Satan answered the Lord and said, “Does Job fear God for nothing? 10 Have You not made a hedge around him, around his household, and around all that he has on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land. 11 But now, stretch out Your hand and touch all that he has, and he will surely curse You to Your face!” 12 And the Lord said to Satan, “Behold, all that he has is in your power; only do not lay a
hand on his person.” So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord.Why does Satan say stretch out YOUR hand?? The answer is simple because this Satan, this adversary of Job, is one of God's angels who has no powers of his own, only those of the Holy Spirit. This Satan is only going to act upon the authority of God.
Notice how Satan is in the presence of God, the bible says ONLY the righteous do dwell in God's presence. A sinful angel cannot be in the presence of the Lord.
Notice how Satan is communicating with God and they are agreeing with one another on behalf of Job.
This Satan in Job is not sinning against God, he is not against God. This Satan was calling things how they are, its easy to follow something or praise something when everything has been easily handed to you.
WJ, your not even reading the scripture and the words for what they say, your TOO darn busy plugging YOUR doctrine into the scriptures.
Satan in Job was an angel on earth doing God's will watching over the people. God asked this angel what he thought of Job, and he called it how it was.
Notice how God TRUSTS Satan to do to Job what THEY AGREED upon, and that Satan KEPT that TRUST.
To try and fit the actual behavior of Satan in the book of Job to the story of a jealous fallen angel who hates God is creating nothing but a pure lie.
So according to you WJ, God finds it necessary to have some sinful being do His work for Him? Talk about portraying God with a serious lack of honor and integrity. According to you, God with his own hands does not afflict us, He just ALLOWS someone else to do so? Lies!
So the affliction that Job receives must have come from a sinful angel because according to you God would never do such things with His own hands. You IMO have a very warped understanding of who God is.
Let's see what Job is afflicted with,
–The oxen were plowing and the donkeys feeding beside them, 15 when the Sabeans raided them and took them away–indeed they have killed the servants with the edge of the sword; and I alone have escaped to tell you!”
–“The fire of God fell from heaven and burned up the sheep and the servants, and consumed them; and I alone have escaped to tell you!”
Oh WAIT A MINUTE, Satan had fire FROM GOD come down to burn up the sheep. Say what?? This only makes sense if Satan is an angel of God, which makes sense given the bible tells us that only YHWH has the powers to inflict. If the Satan in Job has any powers, it would have to be from the Holy Spirit.
–17 While he was still speaking, another also came and said, “The Chaldeans formed three bands, raided the camels and took them away, yes, and killed the servants with the edge of the sword; and I alone have escaped to tell you!”
—7 So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord, and struck Job with painful boils from the sole of his foot to the crown of his head.
Let's look at what God directly tells us that He does by His hands to people, and see if it relates in a similar manner to the same kind of infliction that Job received.
35 The Lord will strike you in the knees and on the legs with severe boils which cannot be healed, and from the sole of your foot to the top of your head.
22 The Lord will strike you with consumption, with fever, with inflammation, with severe burning fever, with the sword, with scorching, and with mildew; they shall pursue you until you perish.
25 The Lord will cause you to be defeated before your enemies; you shall go out one way against them and flee seven ways before them; and you shall become troublesome to all the kingdoms of the earth.
29 And you shall grope at noonday, as a blind man gropes in darkness; you shall not prosper in your ways; you shall be only oppressed and plundered continually, and no one shall save you.
31 Your ox shall be slaughtered before your eyes, but you shall not eat of it; your donkey shall be violently taken away from before you, and shall not be restored to you; your sheep shall be given to your enemies, and you shall have no one to rescue them.
The Adversary in the book of Job is NOT a fallen angel, or any other sort of supernatural being that is against God.
Isaiah 45:6-7 “That they may know from the rising of the sun to its setting that there is none besides Me. I am the Lord, and there is no other; I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I the Lord do all these things.”
If there is NO OTHER that has the powers to create darkness and calamity as we see God create in Deuteronomy 28, and if we see according to the words of Jesus that such sins as murder, adultery, fornication, lying, stealing, evil thoughts, pride, blasphemy, covetousness, deceit, foolishness, lewdness come from man alone, then I ask what sort of darkness is left for this supposed supernatural being to bring on this earth? God certainly does not need Him to do His own work. Man we see certainly does not need him to cause him to commit the worst of sins.
Taking a man made story and plugging it into the bible as the definition for the Devil and Satan, is NOT truth.
I am going to determine the identity of our adversary according to the undisputable facts given to us in the bible.
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