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Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 18 2008,13:36) DK…..The word adversary simple implies and adversarial spirit or intellect , In fact an adversary at times can be a helper when used by God, for the good of a person as obviously it was used in the case of Job. At the end of the Book of Job, it says GOD had brought all these things on Job not some other being of some kind. And adversary can be God HIMSELF at times, when He is against what man is doing, He takes the form as an adversary. DK….look at good and evil as Just intellect not persons or beings People can take these good and evil intellect into themselves. And they can leave and reenter and be removed as when Jesus cast them out of a person, God simply removed there influence on the person out of there minds , but seeing that they alway existed and will always exist they are considered to go about in arid places looking for a resting place and the only place evil or good can find rest is in someone. Evil and Good are what animates all things gives it life so to speak. You are alive doing good or alive doing evil but if both were gone you would be dead.
WE are animated by them they are spirits that cause us to move and have our being. Our problem we need a guidance system, we are very much like a ship without a rudder or gyroscope and thats where GOD”S Spirit comes in it is our permanent guidance system it maintains us on course.IMO
peace to you and yours……….gene
I'm sorry Bro Gene..your explanation is way to convoluted and requires to much eisegesis….If you just read the bible for face value its clear that satan is a real being…
You ever wonder why it takes you and Jodi 10 paragraphs to explain each verse?…its because you are conceptualizing the scriptures instead letting the spirit teach you…
GB,
How many spirits animate you?
Do they spend time in dry places and then come back with their friends?GB,
Scripture teaches these things in a much simpler way.
Why not put your own ideas aside and listen to it?DK….it is clear to me that Satan is not a being but a Spirit of and adversary and can be in any one even PETER. and all the Pharisees also, it not a being it is a spirit (intellect) of a adversary. Jodi and i have both explained it clearly and gave lots of reason for our understandings and no one has proved any of them wrong so far. Show us where one place that says SATAN is a person or some kind of an actual being other then man himself.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 18 2008,14:24) DK….it is clear to me that Satan is not a being but a Spirit of and adversary and can be in any one even PETER. and all the Pharisees also, it not a being it is a spirit (intellect) of a adversary. Jodi and i have both explained it clearly and gave lots of reason for our understandings and no one has proved any of them wrong so far. Show us where one place that says SATAN is a person or some kind of an actual being other then man himself.
Gen Was Lucifer a real Angel? He was very beautiful when God created Him. Until iniquity was found in Him. Ez.28:15
Is. 14:12 “How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning, how aer thou cut to the ground, which didst weaken the nation.”
Job 8:44 “Ye are of the father the devil, and lust of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning….”
Luke 10:18 ” And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. If it only were in our minds, how can that be?
And the biggest lie that Satan ever told is, that he wants people to believe that he does not exsist.
Peace and Love IreneTiffany….if you look real close at the text you will see Lucifer was a man. The word Lucifer means rising star, and it describes the king of Babylon not some invisible creature of some king. We today use that same saying when describing some one on the way up as a rising star. it is just a metaphor describing the king of Babylon and heaven is just his high place he thought he was in, his exalted self. God cut down the king of Babylon and He did weaken the nations of the known world at that time. Notice in verse 16..> and those who see you will gaze at you and consider you saying is this the(MAN) who made the earth Trimble Who shook Kingdoms. The biggest lie it to believe in devils and Satan beings who are not simple men with and adversarial spirit in them. IMO
peace to you and yours……………Tiffany
Quote (dirtyknections @ Sep. 17 2008,19:07) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 18 2008,13:36) DK…..The word adversary simple implies and adversarial spirit or intellect , In fact an adversary at times can be a helper when used by God, for the good of a person as obviously it was used in the case of Job. At the end of the Book of Job, it says GOD had brought all these things on Job not some other being of some kind. And adversary can be God HIMSELF at times, when He is against what man is doing, He takes the form as an adversary. DK….look at good and evil as Just intellect not persons or beings People can take these good and evil intellect into themselves. And they can leave and reenter and be removed as when Jesus cast them out of a person, God simply removed there influence on the person out of there minds , but seeing that they alway existed and will always exist they are considered to go about in arid places looking for a resting place and the only place evil or good can find rest is in someone. Evil and Good are what animates all things gives it life so to speak. You are alive doing good or alive doing evil but if both were gone you would be dead.
WE are animated by them they are spirits that cause us to move and have our being. Our problem we need a guidance system, we are very much like a ship without a rudder or gyroscope and thats where GOD”S Spirit comes in it is our permanent guidance system it maintains us on course.IMO
peace to you and yours……….gene
I'm sorry Bro Gene..your explanation is way to convoluted and requires to much eisegesis….If you just read the bible for face value its clear that satan is a real being…
You ever wonder why it takes you and Jodi 10 paragraphs to explain each verse?…its because you are conceptualizing the scriptures instead letting the spirit teach you…
Hi DK,Come on now, let's be fair, not ten paragraphs!
Dk, you must realize that Gene and I are working against a LONG held Christian understanding of which we believe is a false one.
The story of which Irene speaks of is not founded in the bible.
You and so many others, as I once did, identify Satan as to the story we were told. That story plain and simple does not exist in the bible. That story is one poor interpretation added to another IMO.
I believe I have asked some very good questions and they have gone unanswered.
You see the thing is, I was already once where you were, I know where you are coming from in your understanding of scripture, but I don't think that you or Nick have really taken the time to see where we are coming from.
It would be great if you could go back and actually try and see what I see, and respond directly to my so called 'conceptualizing' and show what is false?
Thanks and peace to you bro, Jodi
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 18 2008,15:24) Hi Irene,
Does scripture identify him as satan?
Luke 10:18 And He said to them ” I SAW SATAN FALL LIKE LIGHTENING FROM HEAVEN.” Out of my King James Bible.
Satisfied.Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 18 2008,15:38) Tiffany….if you look real close at the text you will see Lucifer was a man. The word Lucifer means rising star, and it describes the king of Babylon not some invisible creature of some king. We today use that same saying when describing some one on the way up as a rising star. it is just a metaphor describing the king of Babylon and heaven is just his high place he thought he was in, his exalted self. God cut down the king of Babylon and He did weaken the nations of the known world at that time. Notice in verse 16..> and those who see you will gaze at you and consider you saying is this the(MAN) who made the earth Trimble Who shook Kingdoms. The biggest lie it to believe in devils and Satan beings who are not simple men with and adversarial spirit in them. IMO peace to you and yours……………Tiffany
Look at the Scriptire in Luke, to me Satan is a real being who fell from Heaven. And how could Satan test Jesus. Look what was said then. Satan is the God of this world and He was going to offer it to Jesus if Jesus would bow down to Him. I have to find that Scripture for you. I have 16 different Scriptures taking about Satan.
Tell you what I will make a study tomorrow or today later since it is already past midnight.
IreneQuote (Jodi @ Sep. 18 2008,16:22) Quote (dirtyknections @ Sep. 17 2008,19:07) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 18 2008,13:36) DK…..The word adversary simple implies and adversarial spirit or intellect , In fact an adversary at times can be a helper when used by God, for the good of a person as obviously it was used in the case of Job. At the end of the Book of Job, it says GOD had brought all these things on Job not some other being of some kind. And adversary can be God HIMSELF at times, when He is against what man is doing, He takes the form as an adversary. DK….look at good and evil as Just intellect not persons or beings People can take these good and evil intellect into themselves. And they can leave and reenter and be removed as when Jesus cast them out of a person, God simply removed there influence on the person out of there minds , but seeing that they alway existed and will always exist they are considered to go about in arid places looking for a resting place and the only place evil or good can find rest is in someone. Evil and Good are what animates all things gives it life so to speak. You are alive doing good or alive doing evil but if both were gone you would be dead.
WE are animated by them they are spirits that cause us to move and have our being. Our problem we need a guidance system, we are very much like a ship without a rudder or gyroscope and thats where GOD”S Spirit comes in it is our permanent guidance system it maintains us on course.IMO
peace to you and yours……….gene
I'm sorry Bro Gene..your explanation is way to convoluted and requires to much eisegesis….If you just read the bible for face value its clear that satan is a real being…
You ever wonder why it takes you and Jodi 10 paragraphs to explain each verse?…its because you are conceptualizing the scriptures instead letting the spirit teach you…
Hi DK,Come on now, let's be fair, not ten paragraphs!
Dk, you must realize that Gene and I are working against a LONG held Christian understanding of which we believe is a false one.
The story of which Irene speaks of is not founded in the bible.
You and so many others, as I once did, identify Satan as to the story we were told. That story plain and simple does not exist in the bible. That story is one poor interpretation added to another IMO.
I believe I have asked some very good questions and they have gone unanswered.
You see the thing is, I was already once where you were, I know where you are coming from in your understanding of scripture, but I don't think that you or Nick have really taken the time to see where we are coming from.
It would be great if you could go back and actually try and see what I see, and respond directly to my so called 'conceptualizing' and show what is false?
Thanks and peace to you bro, Jodi
Hi Jodi,
Are you in agreement with Gene's ideas about “free intellects”?
Or is you unity only by way of opposition?Quote How can this “one” the one called Satan and devil mislead the “entire inhabited earth”? –rev 12:9
Anyone?
REVELATION 12:9
“So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him.”Quote Satan is the general word for adversary, it does not represent in the bible as one specific person. Anyone or anything that is in opposition to something or someone else is a Satan. –jodi.
So, I'm just trying to understand. You believe there is no spirit being called Satan, specifically, but that in each instance the “satan” or “adversary” is just an individual who is an adversary. Is that correct?
1 JOHN 3:8
“He who carries on sin originates with the Devil [Gr., tou Di·a·bo′lou], because the Devil has been sinning from [the] beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was made manifest, namely, to break up the works of the Devil.”If this is just talking about adversaries (of God) in general, wouldn't it say “adversaries” (in plural) and not “the devil”?
Even if you use the word “adversary” or “resistor” or whatever, there are many scriptures that seem to indicate that there is ONE special adversary. Let's call him…oh I don't know “the adversary” (devil.)And this adversary, the adversary, seems to have been hurled down from heaven, with his angels, so he seems to be a spirit creature:
REVELATION 12:9
“So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him.”Oh, and it seems from the Bible that he's great at misleading people. (See scripture above.)
I wonder if it would help his purposes if he made people believe he didn't exist. hmmmm.
Quote (david @ Sep. 18 2008,18:55) Quote How can this “one” the one called Satan and devil mislead the “entire inhabited earth”? –rev 12:9
Anyone?
REVELATION 12:9
“So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him.”
Hi david,
This speaks of the time of tribulation when the sons of God will not be on earth but be meeting with Christ in the air.Quote Show us where one place that says SATAN is a person or some kind of an actual being other then man himself. –Gene.
Let me think.
REVELATION 12:9
“So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called DEVIL and SATAN, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him.”Gene, do you think it is a man here that is hurled down from HEAVEN and that has angelic followers? Really?
REVELATION 20:7
“Now as soon as the thousand years have been ended, SATAN will be let loose out of his prison,”
REVELATION 20:2
“And he seized the dragon, the original serpent, who is the DEVIL and SATAN, and bound him for a thousand years.”
Which man “adversary” do you really think this is?JOB 2:7
“So SATAN went out away from the person of Jehovah and struck Job with a malignant boil from the sole of his foot to the crown of his head.”Gene, what man did this?
JOB 1:6-9
“Now it came to be the day when the sons of the [true] God entered to take their station before Jehovah, and even SATAN proceeded to enter right among them. Then Jehovah said to SATAN: “Where do you come from?” At that SATAN answered Jehovah and said: “From roving about in the earth and from walking about in it.” And Jehovah went on to say to SATAN: “Have you set your heart upon my servant Job, that there is no one like him in the earth, a man blameless and upright, fearing God and turning aside from bad?” At that SATAN answered Jehovah and said: “Is it for nothing that Job has feared God?”Again, Satan (the adversary) was in heaven. Do men reside in heaven?
MATTHEW 4:9-10
“and he said to him: “All these things I will give you if you fall down and do an act of worship to me.” Then Jesus said to him: “Go away, Satan! For it is written, ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’””
If you believe this was Jesus' intellect telling him these things, what do you imagine his intellect was saying here? “I (your intellect) will give you all these things if you worship me”? ?
Do you imagine Jesus was talking to himself? “Tempting” himself? Remember, in this account it often uses the word “devil” (slanderer), not adversary. Was Jesus lying to himself?LUKE 10:18
“At that he said to them: “I began to behold SATAN already fallen like lightning from heaven.”
The adversary seems to be a spirit creature of some sort.ACTS 26:18
“to open their eyes, to turn them from darkness to light and from the authority of SATAN to God, in order for them to receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those sanctified by [their] faith in me.’”
Who is this great adversary that seems to have so much authority, and power?ROMANS 16:20
“For his part, the God who gives peace will crush SATAN under YOUR feet shortly. May the undeserved kindness of our Lord Jesus be with YOU.”1 CORINTHIANS 7:5
“Do not be depriving each other [of it], except by mutual consent for an appointed time, that YOU may devote time to prayer and may come together again, that SATAN may not keep tempting YOU for YOUR lack of self-regulation.”2 CORINTHIANS 2:11
“that we may not be overreached by SATAN, for we are not ignorant of his designs.”2 CORINTHIANS 11:14
“And no wonder, for SATAN himself keeps transforming himself into an angel of light.”Why do we not find “adversary” (satan) in plural in these scriptures? Why is it often “the satan” (translated “satan”)?
JOHN 13:2
“So, while the evening meal was going on, the DEVIL having already put it into the heart of Judas Iscaŕiot, the son of Simon, to betray him,”
Which man did this?JAMES 4:7
“Subject yourselves, therefore, to God; but oppose the DEVIL, and he will flee from YOU.”ACTS 26:18
“to open their eyes, to turn them from darkness to light and from the authority of SATAN to God, in order for them to receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those sanctified by [their] faith in me.’”
1 JOHN 3:10
“The children of God and the children of the DEVIL are evident by this fact: Everyone who does not carry on righteousness does not originate with God, neither does he who does not love his brother.”
Notice the contrast between God and the devil.Here we see something interesting:
1 PETER 5:8
“Keep your senses, be watchful. YOUR adversary [Satan], the DEVIL, walks about like a roaring lion, seeking to devour [someone].”Yet, in so many scriptures above, it doesn't say “your adversary” or “your adversaries” but it says “Satan” with the definite article in front of it, meaning “the Satan” or “the adversary.”
It's like it's speaking of one special adversary.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 18 2008,19:25) Quote (david @ Sep. 18 2008,18:55) Quote How can this “one” the one called Satan and devil mislead the “entire inhabited earth”? –rev 12:9
Anyone?
REVELATION 12:9
“So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him.”
Hi david,
This speaks of the time of tribulation when the sons of God will not be on earth but be meeting with Christ in the air.
Nick, focus.
How does this scripture apply to what we're actually discussing?David just put all the Scriptures down that speak of Satan. I will also join Him, and explain, how many Scriptures talk about Satan. Not in any Humans mind. He was a beautifully Angel going bad.
1 Ch. 21:1 Now Satan stood up against Israel, and moved David to number one. Hear Satan is influencing David.
I am not going to repeat all of Davids post,if you can't see a being there. I don't know what anybody can tell you. IMO you are like so many that will be deceived like it says in Rev. I do not want to judge anybody, but I am concerned about my Brother and Sister in Christ. One thing I do know that we are in the end times and Satan has only a short time left, till he will be chained, and he will do just about anything to deceive us. He was a murderer from the beginning.
Peace and Love IreneAll Scriptures I found that has Satan in it.
1 Ch.21:1
Job 1:6
Math. 4:10, 16:23,
Mark 1:23
Luke 10:18, 22:31
Acts 5:3
1 Cor. 5:5
2 Cor. 11:14
2 Thes. 2:9
Rev. 2″9, 2:13, 2:24, 12:9, 20:7
IreneQuote (Tiffany @ Sep. 18 2008,03:31) All Scriptures I found that has Satan in it.
1 Ch.21:1
Job 1:6
Math. 4:10, 16:23,
Mark 1:23
Luke 10:18, 22:31
Acts 5:3
1 Cor. 5:5
2 Cor. 11:14
2 Thes. 2:9
Rev. 2″9, 2:13, 2:24, 12:9, 20:7
Irene
Good morning Irene,Since the word satan is directly referred to in the bible as man and also God's messengers, where do you see in the bible that it became known to be a proper name for ONE particular being?
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