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Hi david,
Thank you.This thread is about Satan, the serpent, the dragon, the devil, the acciuser of the brethren, the Murderer from the beginning, the deceiver, the Father of lies etc.EPHESIANS 6:11-12
“Put on the complete suit of armor from God that YOU may be able to stand firm against the machinations of the Devil; because we have a wrestling, not against blood and flesh, but against the governments, against the authorities, against the world rulers of this darkness, against the wicked spirit forces in the heavenly places.”If not a literal wicked spirt person, who is this slanderer (devil) that we are to stand firm against?
WHO ARE THE WICKED SPIRIT FORCES IN THE HEAVENLY PLACES?
They would appear to be wicked. They would appear to be spirit forces. And they would appear to be in heavenly places.
Rev. 12:7-12: “War broke out in heaven . . . the dragon and its angels battled but it did not prevail, neither was a place found for them any longer in heaven. So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him. . . . ‘On this account be glad, you heavens and you who reside in them! Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to you, having great anger, knowing he has a short period of time.’”
(This increased woe to the world has occurred since Satan was hurled out of heaven following the birth of the Kingdom. See verse 10.)Here, we are told that the one called Devil (slanderer) and Satan (opposer, resister) is misleading THE ENTIRE INHABITED EARTH. Quite a job for a human resister. And who is this resister if he is a human? And how is it that a human resister was hurled out of heaven, to the earth, with his angels? There was war in heaven. So this resister was in heaven. Are there human resisters in heaven?
This means woe for the earth, because this resister has come down to us, expelled from heaven, no longer allowed access, and he knows his time is short. Who is he?ACTS 10:38
“namely, Jesus who was from Naz´a·reth, how God anointed him with holy spirit and power, and he went through the land doing good and healing all those oppressed by the Devil; because God was with him.”If we take the word Devil out and insert the word “slanderer,” (Greek di·a´bo·los means “slanderer”) then this will not lead us to believe that the devil here represents sickness, as the demons are supposed to.
If demons are sicknesses, then how do we explain James 2:19? There is no way to explain it, unless one finds a way to make it so that scipture isn't really a part of the Bible.
Was Jesus just going along with popular superstitions when he cast them out?
Doesn't seem like something Jesus would do.When he told a legion of them to go into a herd of swine, you suppose that this was sicknesses he was putting into the swine?
But then how are we to understand James’ words: “The demons believe and shudder”?—Jas. 2:19.Hi,
By the beginning of Genesis Satan was already in rebellion surely. His appearance as the serpent was after his own fall and was specifically to encourage the newly created man to join him in rebellion against God. Jesus said he is a murderer from the beginning and the father of lies. Surely darkness was on the face of the deep.Was the Serpent mentioned in the garden of Eden actually Satan or was it a creature under his control? Even as Cain, Judas …
Quote (malcolm ferris @ June 03 2006,14:21) Was the Serpent mentioned in the garden of Eden actually Satan or was it a creature under his control? Even as Cain, Judas …
Hi Malcolm,
In Revelation he is identified as the serpent. But as you say the animal is not Satan and was used by him.Hi,
One of the greates lies Satan has spread is that we must strive and struggle in our own strength and rely on ourselves and our churches and their favourite versions to find truth.The reality is that we need the Spirit of God who wrote the bible through men and which God longs to give His children.
“Whoever wishes to save his own life will lose it”
If we seek and find as we were told to do then it becomes true that;
“I can do all things through Him who strengthens me”
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 03 2006,20:16) Quote (malcolm ferris @ June 03 2006,14:21) Was the Serpent mentioned in the garden of Eden actually Satan or was it a creature under his control? Even as Cain, Judas …
Hi Malcolm,
In Revelation he is identified as the serpent. But as you say the animal is not Satan and was used by him.
It says the serpent was an upright creature and that he was changed to go about on his belly as a result of what he did in Eden.
It also clearly identifies him as a part of the natural creation of beasts of the field, cattle …Was the serpent descriptive a hebrew idiom?
Was it a snake or was it satan himself?serpent = Hebrew word # 5175: nachash (naw-khawsh'); a snake (from its hiss). From # 5172: nachash (naw-khash'); a primitive root; properly, to hiss, ie: whisper a (magic) spell; generally, to prognosticate: to practice divination, to divine, to observe signs, to learn by experience, to diligently observe, to practice fortune telling, to take as an omen.
This verse implies satan actually was the snake.
Rev 12:9
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.Was the curse to crawl on his belly a literal transformation of a snake under Satans control or a curse declaring Satans fallen status?
Was “upon thy belly shalt thou go” a Hebraism (figure of speech) for utter defeat as in Ps 72:9 & Isa 49:23. *2 dust shalt thou eat = A Hebraism (figure of speech) meaning an ultimate term of degradation, as in Ps 44:25.
Then who are the two seeds mentioned when God curses him and says
There will be enmity between the serpent's seed and the woman's seed?Christ was the woman's seed – I beleive.
And if we are Christ's then we are included in this 'seed' which is a lineage called sons of God.
Cheif heir of which is Jesus Christ our elder brother.
For Christ is the royal seed of Abraham (Gal 3:16) and we are Abrahams seed and heirs according to the promise.(Gal 3:29)So there has been a lineage of the 'seed' sons of God – which was redeemed back to God through the blood of Jesus Christ.
Who then are these serpent seed?
So Cain and his descendants are natural men are they not?
Adam was a natural man and was called the son of God.
He had natural sons Cain and Abel.
Of whom it is said Abel was righteouss (Matt 23:35, Heb 11:4)
And Cain OF that wicked one(1 John 3:12)How is it then that two seeds – at emnity from Eden came forth?
Read that link.
Basically I believe the sin in the garden has nothing to do with fruit.
Eve was beguiled and seduced by Satan.
Cain is the son of Satan.
Quite so – but Satan is a spirit not a physical being.
Satan is also not a creator – rather a perverter.
He can only take someting God has created and use it for a wrong purpose and to
produce a perversion.There were two trees in the garden of Eden – Satan was one of those two spiritual beings of which were not for natural food.
One yielded eternal life the other death.Notice the law of life stated in Gen 1:11 that every seed must bear life according to kind.
What happens when this law is broken? we get a hybrid – and a hybrid can produce no further generations – it is dead – its seed is not in itself…There were two spiritual choices and two physical choices.
The choice of the perverted word from the wrong spiritual source then led to the adulterous physical union that produced the mixed seed.
But there had to be a natural vessel for Satan to use to achieve this.You assume angels can't become flesh.
The bible is full of walking, talking, eating, drinking angels who look just like men.
Where do we get our ideas of what a spirit is and what it is capable of?
I don't think possession is needed, angels can incarnate.
Satan did become flesh – in the Serpent.
Even as he is constantly made flesh in his earthly servants.
He can only copy what God does and seek to pervert it.God alone can create. He alone can make a natural life and call it His son.
And he does so outside of sexual reproduction.You assume that angels – spirit beings that are less than the Mighty God.
Can at will interfere in the plan of almighty God and mix their life –
have the ability to produce a seed of an entirely new kind of life, apart from God's will.You say I don't think that possession is needed – angels can incarnate.
Angels that incarnate are still on the right side – at least all the recorded instances of this in the bible that I know of.
Can the same be said of fallen angels? or demons – evil spirits – call them what you will?MATTHEW 8:28-31
And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way.
And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?
And there was a good way off from them an herd of many swine feeding.
So the devils besought him, saying, If thou cast us out, suffer us to go away into the herd of swine.MATTHEW 12:43-45
When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.They seem to be somewhat limited in their capacity to possession. Which is no more than a counterfiet of the real – the dwelling of Christ's Spirit in our hearts by faith.
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