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Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 16 2008,16:57) Hi Jodi,
Indeed satan does his works through the tainted vessels of men
And once again I will ask you Nick who do you believe the adversary to be?John 12:31
“Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world will be driven out.”John 14:30
“I will no longer talk much with you, for the ruler of this world is coming. He has no power over me.”John 16:8, 11
“And when he [the Holy Spirit] comes, he will prove the world wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment . . . about judgment because the ruler of this world has been condemned.”1 John 3:8
“The Son of God was revealed for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil.”Ephesians 1:20-21
“God put this power to work in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right had in the heavenly places, far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the age to come.”Colossians 1:13-14
“He has rescued us from the power of darkness and transferred us into the kingdom of his beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.”Colossians 2:13-15
“And when you were dead in trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive together with him, when he forgave us all our trespasses, erasing the record that stood against us with its legal demands. He set this aside, nailing it to the cross. He disarmed the rulers and authorities and made a public example of them, triumphing over them in it.”Hebrews 2:14-15
“Since, therefore, the children share flesh and blood, he himself likewise shared the same things, so that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil, and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by the fear of death.”Luke 10:18
“See, I have given you authority . . . over all the power of the enemy.”Ephesians 6:11-13
“Put on the whole armor of God, so that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For our struggle is not against enemies of blood and flesh, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers of this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. Therefore take up the whole armor of God, so that you may be able to withstand on that evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm.”2 Corinthians 11:14
“Even Satan himself disguises himself as an angel of light.”James 4:7
“Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.”1 Peter 5:7-11
“Cast all your anxiety on him, because he cares for you. Discipline yourselves, keep alert. Like roaring lion your adversary the devil prowls around, looking for someone to devour. Resist him, steadfast in your faith, for you know that your brothers and sisters in all the world are undergoing the same kinds of suffering. After you have suffered for a little while, the God of all grace, who has called you to his eternal glory in Christ, will himself restore, support, strengthen, and establish you. To him be the power forever and ever. Amen.”
still in denialI thought this was a good synopsis…( I disagree with a couple of the interpretations..but it still is a good read)
http://answersnow.homestead.com/files/devlreal.htm
The devil has a personality and possesses a heavenly body. He does not have an earthly body like ours, but an angelic body, since he is a created being, an angel. However, he rebelled against God and became a “fallen” angel. Yet even as a demon (fallen angel), he still has his amazing angelic body with the powers and abilities which are inherent to such bodies (which is another subject in itself.)
The devil possesses intelligence (2 Cor. 2:11 & 11:3) and he has a memory (he had apparently memorized and remembered Psalms 91:11-12 which he quoted when talking to Jesus in Matthew 4:6).
The devil has a will (2 Timothy 2:26).
The devil has emotions including those of desire (Luke 22:31), pride (1 Timothy 3:6), and wrath (Rev. 12:12).
The devil has the ability to think and to organize and has, therefore, devised his own synagogues, doctrines, and “deep things” (1 Timothy 4:1, Rev. 2:9, Rev. 2:24, Rev 12:4, Rev 20:7-9).
He does things (has actions and activities) including trying to imitate God. He does this by having his own false trinity (Rev 13:2 & 16:3), and by having his own synagogues (Rev. 2:9) and doctrines (1 Timothy 4:1). The devil also has his own mysteries (2 Thess. 2:7), his own throne (Rev. 2:13 & 13:2), kingdom (Luke 4:6), worshipers (Rev. 13:4), angels (Rev 12:7), and ministers (2 Cor. 11:15). He does miracles (2 Thess 2:9 & Matthew 7:21-23) and sacrifices are offered to him (1 Cor. 10:20).
The devil has armies to fight for him (Isaiah 24:21, & Rev 14:14-17) — but one day he and his armies will be defeated by the REAL God, the Lord of Lords and King of Kings (see Revelation 19:11-16).
What else does the devil “do”? Well, he sows tares among God's wheat (Matthew 13:24-30), he puts false doctrine into the world (1 Timothy 4:1-3), and he perverts the Bible, the Word of God, in several ways including causing it to be misinterpreted and by taking it out of context (Matthew 4:6, Genesis 3:1-4).
Quote (Jodi @ Sep. 17 2008,12:29) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 16 2008,16:57) Hi Jodi,
Indeed satan does his works through the tainted vessels of men
And once again I will ask you Nick who do you believe the adversary to be?
Hi Jodi,
satan
the dragon.
the devil
the serpent of old.
the god of this world.
the prince of the power of the air.Dk…..”resist the devil and he shall flee from you”, it appears the devil is in everybody, and he is, in our Carnal Natures as he was in the Pharisees “for you do the deeds of your father the devil. The devil is not some separate person or being , the devil is carnal man. When you are submitting yourself to GOD you ARE resisting the Devil in YOU, your carnal nature. WE must overcome that devil nature in us , even as Jesus overcame His carnal nature also.
The son of God was revealed for this purpose, to destory the WORKS of the devil. The work of the “devil” was in him, through his human nature and He overcame it and put it to death. HOW?, by putting HIS OWN WILL TO DEATH. Thats why the devil had no hold on HIM, had he not put His WILL to DEATH the devil (carnal mind) would have had a hold on Him.
The (ONLY DEVIL OR SATINS) are CARNAL MINDED MAN KIND THEMSELVES> NOT some other mystic PAGAN beings going around jumping in and out of people. Jodi has totally explained it right you need to read and think about what she and i both have said, and come out of pagan ideologies.God holds us completely responsible for our sins not some other beings influencing us.
peace to you and yours………………..gene
GB,
Did Jesus see carnal natures falling from heaven?
If you believed Jesus you would not need to add your rationalisations.
You really ought not align your master's teaching with paganism.Nick….Jesus know Mans state was a fallen state, Man fell from His heavenly state God has in mind for him. Man commended or fell to a adversarial state. You should already have known that. You are the one going against the masters teaching not me, but i realize you simply do not understand . IMO
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 17 2008,13:40) Dk…..”resist the devil and he shall flee from you”, it appears the devil is in everybody, and he is, in our Carnal Natures as he was in the Pharisees “for you do the deeds of your father the devil. The devil is not some separate person or being , the devil is carnal man. When you are submitting yourself to GOD you ARE resisting the Devil in YOU, your carnal nature. WE must overcome that devil nature in us , even as Jesus overcame His carnal nature also. The son of God was revealed for this purpose, to destory the WORKS of the devil. The work of the “devil” was in him, through his human nature and He overcame it and put it to death. HOW?, by putting HIS OWN WILL TO DEATH. Thats why the devil had no hold on HIM, had he not put His WILL to DEATH the devil (carnal mind) would have had a hold on Him.
The (ONLY DEVIL OR SATINS) are CARNAL MINDED MAN KIND THEMSELVES> NOT some other mystic PAGAN beings going around jumping in and out of people. Jodi has totally explained it right you need to read and think about what she and i both have said, and come out of pagan ideologies.God holds us completely responsible for our sins not some other beings influencing us.
peace to you and yours………………..gene
…pagan ideologies?Everytime you speak on this topic all I can think of is this scripture..
2 Corinthians 11:14
And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.Gene…what does this scripture mean based on your theory about satan?
Luke 10:18
He replied, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 17 2008,14:11) Nick….Jesus know Mans state was a fallen state, Man fell from His heavenly state God has in mind for him. Man commended or fell to a adversarial state. You should already have known that. You are the one going against the masters teaching not me, but i realize you simply do not understand . IMO
GB,
Jesus does not need your additions.Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 17 2008,14:11) Nick….Jesus know Mans state was a fallen state, Man fell from His heavenly state God has in mind for him. Man commended or fell to a adversarial state. You should already have known that. You are the one going against the masters teaching not me, but i realize you simply do not understand . IMO
Ok..I quit..
This is so far from what Jesus was describing that it makes me
Gene…When Jesus spoke these words:
Luke 10:18
He replied, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.He was simply foretelling this event:
Revelation 12:7-10
7And there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. 9The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.10Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:
“Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God,
and the authority of his Christ.
For the accuser of our brothers,
who accuses them before our God day and night,
has been hurled down.Come on brother Gene…you know better..you really can't believe this fluff about “satan is our carnal minds”
Gene..cmon..you mean to tell these verses describe our “carnal minds” talking6 One day the angels [a] came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them. 7 The LORD said to Satan, “Where have you come from?”
Satan answered the LORD, “From roaming through the earth and going back and forth in it.”8 Then the LORD said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil.”
9 “Does Job fear God for nothing?” Satan replied. 10 “Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. 11 But stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face.”
12 The LORD said to Satan, “Very well, then, everything he has is in your hands, but on the man himself do not lay a finger.”
Then Satan went out from the presence of the LORDGene/ Jodi..what about this verses…
Jude 1:9
But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring a slanderous accusation against him, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!”Or these
Revelation 2:24
Now I say to the rest of you in Thyatira, to you who do not hold to her teaching and have not learned Satan's so-called deep secrets (I will not impose any other burden on you):Zechariah 3
Clean Garments for the High Priest
1 Then he showed me Joshua [a] the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right side to accuse him. 2 The LORD said to Satan, “The LORD rebuke you, Satan! The LORD, who has chosen Jerusalem, rebuke you! Is not this man a burning stick snatched from the fire?”1 Timothy 3:6
He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil.Romans 16:20
The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. The grace of our Lord Jesus be with you.2 Corinthians 12:7
To keep me from becoming conceited because of these surpassingly great revelations, there was given me a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me.1 Thessalonians 2:18
For we wanted to come to you—certainly I, Paul, did, again and again—but Satan stopped us.2 Thessalonians 2:9
The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders,Revelation 2:9
I know your afflictions and your poverty—yet you are rich! I know the slander of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.Hebrews 2:14
Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil—1 John 3:8
He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work.Revelation 20:10
And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 16 2008,18:26) Quote (Jodi @ Sep. 17 2008,12:29) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 16 2008,16:57) Hi Jodi,
Indeed satan does his works through the tainted vessels of men
And once again I will ask you Nick who do you believe the adversary to be?
Hi Jodi,
satan
the dragon.
the devil
the serpent of old.
the god of this world.
the prince of the power of the air.
Nick, we are getting nowhere this response just puts us all the way back to the beginning.Who is the devil? Who is Satan? Who is the dragon?
I have shown you through scripture what I understand. You have shown me nothing and you keep dodging my direct question, would you just please answer, and quit horsing around.
Hi Jodi,
You want detail on him.
Sorry but you may find more in scripture.
Looking forward to when we can crush him under our feet[rom16]
Good news is that he will be put away for 1000 years while his mess on earth gets tidied up.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 16 2008,19:04) GB,
Did Jesus see carnal natures falling from heaven?
If you believed Jesus you would not need to add your rationalisations.
You really ought not align your master's teaching with paganism.
Hi Nick,Jesus declares that he saw the adversary fall from heaven like lightening.
Is this the clinching scripture for you to establish the man made story of some fallen angel that does not exist in the bible?
I think this scripture HARDLY proves that the adversary is a celestial being. Especially given that there are several scriptures that refer to man falling from heaven, the heaven of which he has placed himself do to his pride. Of course there is also the symbolism given to us of the Jews position of heaven. The priests are heavenly priests, and the temple is a heavenly temple. When Jesus came and the priests rejected him they became adversaries and did indeed fall from their heavenly position.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 16 2008,20:22) Hi Jodi,
You want detail on him.
Sorry but you may find more in scripture.
Looking forward to when we can crush him under our feet[rom16]
Good news is that he will be put away for 1000 years while his mess on earth gets tidied up.
Nick what are you afraid of, or rather what are you hiding from? Why don't you just tell me just what you think the devil is?Do you believe that the devil/satan is a fallen angel?
Come on why don't you clear the air?
Is it because you are not exactly sure??
Hi Jodi,
Satan.
The adversary.
Have you searched the scriptures for more?
He will be thrown from heaven to earth with a third of the angels.Romans 8:13
For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.Where in scripture are we told that it takes a manipulating fallen angel to make us live according to our own selves??
I need to put to death the deeds of MY BODY, pretty plain and simple. If I don't stop the deeds of my body then I become not only an adversary to myself and God, but also to other people.
There is not a scripture that says I need to put to death the secretive influence of an evil spirit being.
Quote (dirtyknections @ Sep. 16 2008,19:24) Gene..cmon..you mean to tell these verses describe our “carnal minds” talking6 One day the angels [a] came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them. 7 The LORD said to Satan, “Where have you come from?”
Satan answered the LORD, “From roaming through the earth and going back and forth in it.”8 Then the LORD said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil.”
9 “Does Job fear God for nothing?” Satan replied. 10 “Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. 11 But stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face.”
12 The LORD said to Satan, “Very well, then, everything he has is in your hands, but on the man himself do not lay a finger.”
Then Satan went out from the presence of the LORD
DK,Satan is the general word for adversary, it does not represent in the bible as one specific person. Anyone or anything that is in opposition to something or someone else is a Satan.
In the book of Job, Job's adversary does not appose God, but questions Job's faithfulness to God.
Quote Are you trying to tell us that the dragon represents men who then are being influenced by some celestial being? No, Jodi, that is what you seem to be saying, that Satan the devil (the dragon) is the carnal mind of man.
REVELATION 12:9
“So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him.”And of course, flesh (man) does not reside in heaven, yet verse 8 and 12 say that Satan was removed from heaven.
And, heaven is here contrasted with earth, so in this case, “heaven” probably actually means “heaven” (as opposed to the earth.)The “one” called Devil and Satan (who was in heaven) was hurled out of heaven.
My question is: How can this “one” the one called Satan and devil mislead the “entire inhabited earth”?
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