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GB,
Does this reflect your love of the INTELLECT?
The carnal intellect is a poor servant of God.Better to be transformed by renewal according to the Word of God
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 12 2008,15:04) Nick….a parrot can parrot any thing but he has noi understanding of what he is parroting ,Anyone who has no rationalisation is what i would call a idiot. A person who can not rationalize truth doesn't understand it, he can only parrot it. Total void of sense. Is that what people lead by the spirit are to you. I think we need to break off this discussion it going no where. IMO
GB,
Rationalisations and justifications are ways men attempt to transform lies into truth and we do not need to do that as truth is written.[jn17.17]NIck….And accusers of such thing are doing the work of the devil and don't realize God is Perfectly able to preserve His Sheep. And the only one Justifying Himself is you by accusing other of “worldly Knowledge”, or some one trying to transform the truth into a lie, just because you don't have enough sense to understand what being said. You want it to appear as if you understand what truth is and others that disagree with you don't. IMO
When speaking with Eve, Satan hid his identity behind a serpent. He is still trying to hide today. He “has blinded the minds of the unbelievers” so as to conceal the extent of his powerful influence.—2 Corinthians 4:4.
The Bible is clear.
John 13:27
Luke 10:18,19
Rom 16:20
Rev 12:9,10
Rev 20:10
Heb 2:14
Rev 20:2,3
Job 1:6-12 and 2:1-7 tell about conversations between Jehovah God and Satan. If Satan were the evil in a person, the evil in this case would have to be in Jehovah. But that is in complete disagreement with what the Bible tells us about Jehovah as being One “in whom there is no unrighteousness.” (Ps. 92:15; Rev. 4:8) It is noteworthy that the Hebrew text uses the expression has·Sa·tan′ (the Satan) in the accounts in Job, showing that reference is being made to the one who is outstandingly the resister of God.
Luke 4:1-13 reports that the Devil endeavored to tempt Jesus to do his bidding. The account relates statements made by the Devil and answers given by Jesus. Was Jesus there being tempted by evil within himself? Such a view does not harmonize with the Bible’s description of Jesus as being sinless. (Heb. 7:26; 1 Pet. 2:22) Although at John 6:70 the Greek word di·a′bo·los′ is used to describe a bad quality that had developed in Judas Iscariot, in Luke 4:3 the expression ho di·a′bo·los (the Devil) is used, thus designating a particular person.
Quote God can not hold us responsible for any evil then because it was all the devils fault. If I convince you to sin, is it all my fault.
NOPE.
Still your fault.
Yet you continue to misunderstand this.
The devil didn't MAKE anyone do anything, as though the person were a puppet.
JAMES 1:14-15
“But each one is tried by being drawn out and enticed by his own desire. Then the desire, when it has become fertile, gives birth to sin; in turn, sin, when it has been accomplished, brings forth death.”Over time, Judas became completely, inexcusably corrupt.
“From the beginning Jesus knew . . . who was the one that would betray him.” (Joh 6:64) From Hebrew Scripture prophecies Christ knew that he would be betrayed by a close associate. (Ps 41:9; 109:8; Joh 13:18, 19) God also, by use of his foreknowledge, had seen that such a one would turn traitor, but it is inconsistent with God’s qualities and past dealings to think that Judas had to fail, as if he were predestined.
At the beginning of his apostleship Judas was faithful to God and to Jesus. Thus Christ must have meant that “from the beginning” of when Judas started to go bad, started to give in to imperfection and sinful inclinations, Jesus recognized it. (Joh 2:24, 25; Re 1:1; 2:23)
The Bible does not discuss in detail the motives for his corrupt course, but an incident that occurred on Nisan 9, 33 C.E., five days before Jesus’ death, sheds light on the matter. At Bethany in the house of Simon the leper, Mary, Lazarus’ sister, anointed Jesus with perfumed oil worth 300 denarii, about a year’s wages for a laborer. (Mt 20:2) Judas strongly objected that the oil could have been sold and the money “given to the poor people.” Evidently other apostles merely assented to what seemed to be a valid point, but Jesus rebuked them. Judas’ real reason for objecting was that he cared for the money box and he “was a thief . . . and used to carry off the monies” put in the box. So Judas was a greedy, practicing thief.—Joh 12:2-7; Mt 26:6-12; Mr 14:3-8.
Luke 22:3 says that “Satan entered into Judas” likely in the sense that the traitorous apostle gave himself in to the will of the Devil, allowing himself to be a tool to carry out Satan’s design to stop Christ.
As I said before:
If I convince you to sin, is it all my fault.
NOPE.
Still your fault.If you are already a greedy person, and I influence you to steal, who goes to jail, you or me?
If I tell you to murder, and you do, who goes to jail, you or me?
If I pressure you into thinking smoking is a great thing and you become addicted, who will get the lung cancer, you or me?
Hi David,
certainly, and of course if folks do not recognise the evil one who becomes their foe?Other men become the enemy.
That is a worse problem for us because individuals, even armies can overcome us while in reality in Christ we can battle against the beaten unseen forces in his name and see men set free and able to to respond to the grace of God.
David…..It is not the devil as to some other (BEING) causing you to do anything , a man is lead away by the lust of his (OWN) heart not some invisible separate being jumping in and out of Him. Good and Evil always existed and will always exist , because life contains the potential of each , and always will. In all your and Nick , quotes you present demons and devils and Satan as some seperated being and fail to see they are just evil expression of what people do in relation with evil Spirit (INTELLECT) that is in man Himself. We are told there has nothing overtaken us that is not common among man, and a man is brought into captivity when he is lead away by his (OWN) lust not the lusts of some other being or person jumping in and out of him. Lest i get accused of not using scripture.
1 Cor 10:13..> there has (NO) temptation taken you but such as is (COMMON to MAN); but GOD is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that you are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye man be able to bear it.
I guess Paul had a mental laps and forget to mention the other tempter right. So let look at another scripture lest Nick or you say it;s not scripture,…Jesus speaking here, Mat 15:18 -19….> “but those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from (HEART); and they defile the man. 19..> “for out of the (HEART) proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies, These are the things which defile the man. Now where in all that do you see a devil mentioned or some demon or a Satan being doing anything to defile the man by jumping in and out of Him. Its the mans own Heart that the problem nothing else, we are born with a propensity to do evil it is part of our created existence and we recieve it from the world like John said.. 1 John 2:16..> “for (ALL) thats in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes and the pride of life , is not of the Father, but is of the World. Do you see any thing mentioned about it comming from some demon or devil or SATAN?, NO because it come from the world and was introduced into the world by Adam, just as it say as in or through Adam (ALL) died. and in Christ (ALL) shall be made alive. The word ALL leaves no one out. Unless All does not mean ALL as you and Nick would like it to mean.
In none of these scriptures is a devil or demnon influencing on the heart blamed for man defilement, Its what (IN) the MAN (HIMSELF) That defiles HIM (NOTHING ELSE) thats why a man is held accountable for His sins, the only devil is the man himself not some super demonic being of some kind causing it. Judas' own carnal mind was the devil in him, and Peters own carnal mind was the Satan in Him, not some other being controlling them. Just a plain carnal nature and that is exactly what the Pharsiees had working in them when Jesus said you are of your father the devil, there father the devil was Adam, not some mysterious being going around jumping in and out of people as you two falsely assert. YOU both need to go and read what Jodi wrote and consider it. IMO
peace ………..gene
GB,
Nothing Paul or James said is above the words of Jesus.
Jesus spoke of satan and you should respect him and his words.Nick….I don't oppose any teaching of Jesus , its you who can't understand what He meant thats the problem. Your in ability to see the spiritual intent of Jesus' words is your problem. So if believe Satan beings go around jumping in and out of people go ahead thats fine with me.
Gb,
Was there HIDDEN INTENT in his words that sometimes opposed the SIMPLE UNDERSTANDING?
No.
Simplicity is a key to understanding.
It is you who has denied the truth in favour of your ideas.Nick…….. Yes there was hidden intent in His words, if you understood scripture you would know that.
Luk 8:10…> And He said unto them, unto you it is given to know the (MYSTERIES) of the kingdom of GOD; but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not (UNDERSTAND), Does that ring a bell NICK, what so stupid as thinking demons are going around jumping in and out of people when they want too, and we are controlled by them, and THEY CAUSE US TO SIN, Like your religion seem to think.. You definitely do think with simple and unintelligent understanding . You see Jesus words through carnal eyes and do not see the Mysteries (unknown understandings) that takes the Spirit of God to perceive. It takes GOD spirit to understand Spiritual things . God's spirit has revealed a lot of truth here but carnal eyes can not see them, so they do the same things the Pharisees did being lead by there father the devil . You do not perceive or understand the truth given here. IMO
GB,
There are mysteries but all is not mystery but simplicity is paramount.2Cor 11
2For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.3But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
4For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
Certainly you do not seem to know the Spirit in the words of Christ or you would believe him.
NIck…..SO say you, but who are you, to disagree with what Jesus said. Without the SPIRIT OF GOD, you can't understand SPIRITUAL Things, you can only see them through CARNAL EYES because of the darkness thats in you. You need to pray and perhaps GOD will let you See His Spiritual meanings of His word. Even Jesus could not open the eyes that GOD blinded, or they never would have killed him. The spirit (to recognize does not come from a book) it comes from GOD HIMSELF> IMO
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 10 2008,20:40) Hi Jodi, You say
“Satan is said to be the man who has in mind the things of men.
Revelations 12 shows the old serpent and Satan to be one and the same.Therefore we can conclude that Eve was having a conversation with a human who has in mind the things of humans. “
So your FALSE LOGIC has led you to the amazing thought that ADAM and EVE were not the first humans?
Hi Nick,I would say on a daily basis I have conversations with myself, within my head. My reasoning within my mind is what I use to justify the actions I am about to take or have taken already.
I have NEVER once had a conversation with any sort of evil spiritual being, or with a talking animal.
Every sin that I have ever committed I can say FOR SURE came from within myself, just exactly as Jesus said they would. Any deception that I have experienced in my life has come through the means of either my own mind and faulty reasoning, or it has come through the lies of another human being.
A supernatural being has never lied to me, nor anyone else I know.
Nick, I have stated in more then one post that the serpent would either have to represent deception coming out of Eve's own mind, or the deception came through Adam.
Nick, could you explain how the punishment given to the serpent makes sense if the serpent was an evil angel in disguise?
Hi Jodi,
Is your personal experience sufficient to use for others?Col2
18Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind,19and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.
We need to hold on to the HEAD and ensure we do not oppose the teaching of the one who is the TRUTH
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