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Hi TJ,
The ruler of this world has been judged.
Now judgement is only about the reaction of men to Christ and his servants.We serve either sin in the flesh or the Spirit of God
Hi:
The serpent is that evil spirit that entered into the world through Adam and Eve.
Quote 1Jo 2:16 For all that [is] in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. This spirit entered through Eve when the serpent tempted her to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in disobedience to God.
Quote Gen 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree [was] good for food(lust of the flesh because they could have eaten from any tree in the garden except from the tree of knowledge of good and evil), and that it [was] pleasant to the eyes (lust of the eyes), and a tree to be desired to make [one] wise, she took of the fruit thereof(pride of life), and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. And it is that spirit through men who are practicing sin entice others to sin.
Quote Pro 1:10 My son, if sinners entice thee, consent thou not.
Pro 1:11 If they say, Come with us, let us lay wait for blood, let us lurk privily for the innocent without cause:
Pro 1:12 Let us swallow them up alive as the grave; and whole, as those that go down into the pit:
Pro 1:13 We shall find all precious substance, we shall fill our houses with spoil:
Pro 1:14 Cast in thy lot among us; let us all have one purse:
Pro 1:15 My son, walk not thou in the way with them; refrain thy foot from their path:
Pro 1:16 For their feet run to evil, and make haste to shed blood.
Pro 1:17 Surely in vain the net is spread in the sight of any bird.
Pro 1:18 And they lay wait for their [own] blood; they lurk privily for their [own] lives.
Pro 1:19 So [are] the ways of every one that is greedy of gain; [which] taketh away the life of the owners thereof.Quote Psa 1:1 ¶ Blessed [is] the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful God Bless
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 08 2008,12:31) Hi 94,
Man chose the dominion of the Adversary.
He rules natural men from within.
Amen. I agree.Quote (942767 @ Sep. 08 2008,12:25) Hi: The serpent is that evil spirit that entered into the world through Adam and Eve.
Quote 1Jo 2:16 For all that [is] in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. This spirit entered through Eve when the serpent tempted her to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in disobedience to God.
Quote Gen 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree [was] good for food(lust of the flesh because they could have eaten from any tree in the garden except from the tree of knowledge of good and evil), and that it [was] pleasant to the eyes (lust of the eyes), and a tree to be desired to make [one] wise, she took of the fruit thereof(pride of life), and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. And it is that spirit through men who are practicing sin entice others to sin.
Quote Pro 1:10 My son, if sinners entice thee, consent thou not.
Pro 1:11 If they say, Come with us, let us lay wait for blood, let us lurk privily for the innocent without cause:
Pro 1:12 Let us swallow them up alive as the grave; and whole, as those that go down into the pit:
Pro 1:13 We shall find all precious substance, we shall fill our houses with spoil:
Pro 1:14 Cast in thy lot among us; let us all have one purse:
Pro 1:15 My son, walk not thou in the way with them; refrain thy foot from their path:
Pro 1:16 For their feet run to evil, and make haste to shed blood.
Pro 1:17 Surely in vain the net is spread in the sight of any bird.
Pro 1:18 And they lay wait for their [own] blood; they lurk privily for their [own] lives.
Pro 1:19 So [are] the ways of every one that is greedy of gain; [which] taketh away the life of the owners thereof.Quote Psa 1:1 ¶ Blessed [is] the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful God Bless
942767……You have it right , except the serpent was the women subtle lusts as you brought out (NOT) some person or being that jumped into Her it was her own lusts in her and Adam that caused it to happen no some other god being. God told Adam and Eve Not to eat (take to yourself) from the tree (that which produced from self) of the knowledge of good and evil. What the woman saw was not wrong because the Knowledge of good and evil does produce wisdom, the word knowledge implies far more the just knowing about something it implies knowing by experiencing it. But whats interesting is their eyes were opened after they took to themselves to experience good and evil. God even said look man has become like us knowing (experiencing) good and evil.I believe it was in God's plan all along that they would do what they did, or else how could Jesus be Sacrificed from the foundations of the world if God did not know Man would fall and also it says God knows the end from the beginning. So all this was in the plan of God for us to experience both good and evil, the fall of man was not any accident. It was all part of Gods plan. IMO
peace to you and yours………….gene
GB,
Jesus was not sacrified from the foundation of the World.
It was about 2000 years ago.
KJV lets us down at times.God's plan allows for some men to end in the lake of fire, created for the devil and his angels[mt25]
Quote and therefore we are the evil one, the evil ruler of the world. So you're suggesting every person is the “RULER” of the world.
That doesn't really make sense. Billions of rulers. Who do they rule over? Themselves I guess.
The scriptures speak of “the ruler of the world.” I do not believe “ruler” is plural.Quote Your not CHOOSING to follow the influence if you don't even know it exists. You cannot choose something that you are completely unaware of can you? Therefore you couldn't be blamed if the influence that you were unaware of affected your choices. I believe you are wrong here. Even if I am unaware of peer pressure, I am still ultimately responsible for what I do.
That doesn't mean the peer pressure doesn't exist.Quote David, I don't see how McDonalds would be partly to blame. They are not the ones making people eat too many burgers.
They are not to blame for any individual getting fat or having a heart attack. They are PARTIALLY responsible for this happening though. Especially, because they know what they are doing.Quote Satan means adversary and there is not one single scripture that says that the adversary is an evil supernatural being. Satan is said to be the man who has in mind the things of men.
Revelations 12 shows the old serpent and Satan to be one and the same.Therefore we can conclude that Eve was having a conversation with a human who has in mind the things of humans.
The Bible doesn't contradict itself. If it does contradict itself, then our conversation is meaningless anyone.
So, who was this human?
As well, just as you keep asking me how Satan can influence others, I now ask the same of you: How can Satan (the person you think Satan is) influence and mislead the “entire inhabited earth”?
REVELATION 12:9
“So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him.”And of course, flesh (man) does not reside in heaven, yet verse 8 and 12 say that Satan was removed from heaven.
And, heaven is here contrasted with earth, so in this case, “heaven” probably actually means “heaven” (as opposed to the earth.)How would you answer such things?
Quote So David, does God share in the guilt as well for making the apple look good? I would never suggest God or anyone is guilty for doing something “good.”
And maybe I said this wrong, but what I meant, was, Satan made the fruit look like something she should have, when clearly she had no right to it. What Satan did, wasn't good. It was a lie. And more than that, it would be a lie that would lead to her death, and the sin and death of all mankind.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 09 2008,06:50) GB,
Jesus was not sacrified from the foundation of the World.
It was about 2000 years ago.
KJV lets us down at times.God's plan allows for some men to end in the lake of fire, created for the devil and his angels[mt25]
Nick…..wrong again , scripture says Jesus was sacrificed from the foundations of the world , He was in fact destined for that fate before the world began, What you are saying is God does not know the end from the beginning. God knew all along what was going to happen, Even says that people were chosen before the foundation of the world. Saying whose names were written in the book of life from the foundations of the world. You need to stop limiting GOD to a human level. You can not make him fit your , as you would say (HUMAN LOGIC) . God said He has purposed everything saying my purposes will stand.Quote (david @ Sep. 08 2008,15:43) Quote and therefore we are the evil one, the evil ruler of the world. So you're suggesting every person is the “RULER” of the world.
That doesn't really make sense. Billions of rulers. Who do they rule over? Themselves I guess.
The scriptures speak of “the ruler of the world.” I do not believe “ruler” is plural.Quote Your not CHOOSING to follow the influence if you don't even know it exists. You cannot choose something that you are completely unaware of can you? Therefore you couldn't be blamed if the influence that you were unaware of affected your choices. I believe you are wrong here. Even if I am unaware of peer pressure, I am still ultimately responsible for what I do.
That doesn't mean the peer pressure doesn't exist.Quote David, I don't see how McDonalds would be partly to blame. They are not the ones making people eat too many burgers.
They are not to blame for any individual getting fat or having a heart attack. They are PARTIALLY responsible for this happening though. Especially, because they know what they are doing.
The bible is clear from the beginning to the end that the ruler of this world and the cause of evil is from Man's heart.Genesis 6:5 The Lord saw that the wickedness of humankind was great in the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of their hearts was only evil continually.
Genesis 8:21 And when the Lord smelled the pleasing odor, the Lord said in his heart, “I will never again curse the ground because of humankind, for the inclination of the human heart is evil from youth; nor will I ever again destroy every living creature as I have done.
Ps 28:3 Draw me not with the wicked, And with workers of iniquity, Speaking peace with their neighbours, And evil in their heart.
Jer 3:17 At that time they cry to Jerusalem, `O throne of Jehovah,' And gathered unto her hath been all the nations, For the name of Jehovah, to Jerusalem, Nor do they go any more after the stubbornness of their evil heart.
Jer 4:14 Wash from evil thy heart, O Jerusalem, That thou mayest be saved, Till when dost thou lodge in thy heart Thoughts of thy strength?
Jer 11:8 And they have not hearkened nor inclined their ear, And they walk each in the stubbornness of their evil heart, And I bring on them all the words of this covenant, That I commanded to do, and they did not.'
Jer 14:14 Then the Lord said to me, “The prophets are prophesying lies in my name. I have not sent them or appointed them or spoken to them. They are prophesying to you false visions, divinations, idolatries and thedelusions of their own minds.
Jer 18:12 And they have said, It is incurable, For after our own devices we do go, And each the stubbornness of his evil heart we do.
Jer 23:26 How long will this continue in the hearts of these lying prophets, who prophesy the delusions of their own minds?
Matthew 7:21 For it is from WITHIN, from the human heart, that evil intentions come: fornication, theft, murder, 22 adultery, avarice, wickedness, deceit, licentiousness, envy, slander, pride, folly. 23 All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person.”
Mt 9:4 And Jesus, having known their thoughts, said, `Why think ye evil in your hearts?
Mt 12:34 `Brood of vipers! how are ye able to speak good things — being evil? for out of the abundance of the heart doth the mouth speak.
Mt 15:19 for out of the heart come forth evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, whoredoms, thefts, false witnessings, evil speakings:
Lu 6:45 `The good man out of the good treasure of his heart doth bring forth that which [is] good; and the evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart doth bring forth that which [is] evil; for out of the abounding of the heart doth his mouth speak
Mr 8:33 But when Jesus turned and looked at his disciples, he rebuked Peter. “Get behind me, Satan!” he said. “You do not have in mind the things of God, but the things OF MEN.”
Colossians 1:21 And you — once being alienated, and enemies in the mind, in the evil works, yet now did he reconcile,
Why on earth after reading all these scriptures, where there is NO mention whatsoever of a celestial being affecting man's heart, that we would consider an adversary to be such. Wouldn't the adversary represent someone who is using their heart for wickedness?
In Revelation the devil was referred to as those that were going to put the Christians into prison. They were devils NOT because they were being influenced to do things by celestial beings, they were persecuting Christians according to evil coming from their own hearts.
Our enemy, our adversary, our satan is the mind or heart of man when he chooses his ways over that of God's. When our fleshly desires rule over our mind, evil arises. This evil manifests itself into governments and nations, where power and authority inflict the weak. It is a beastly rulership, it is a fiery dragon set on high, exalting itself as if it were a god from heaven, ruling from heaven. Time and time again throughout history these spirits of wickedness who produce evil forces are brought down into shame to learn humility, they are brought back down to earth. As one falls however it seems another is in the waiting ready to rise up.
David, who is saying that peer pressure doesn't exist. Peer pressure exists in the form of influence, it's power is in the influence, but the force behind the evil act is with the person who decides what to follow. Those giving the peer pressure are humans who are following the lust of their own hearts, those who end up being influenced by those who have followed their own lusts, are following in their own lusts as well.
There is nothing in the bible that says that celestial beings influence man to follow after his own lusts and his own heart.
David listen to yourself. You said that Mcdonalds is not to blame but that they are partially responsible. If you are partially responsible then it can most certainly be said that you then are partially to blame.
David this is very silly. People are solely responsible for the foods they put into their mouths. It is not Mcdonalds fault, or any other business that sells junk food, the fault solely goes to the person who does not follow the four basic food group guide they learned in elementary school. The fault goes to the person who has no self control over what they eat.
David you might as well blame God for designing the taste buds!
Quote (david @ Sep. 08 2008,15:51) Quote Satan means adversary and there is not one single scripture that says that the adversary is an evil supernatural being. Satan is said to be the man who has in mind the things of men.
Revelations 12 shows the old serpent and Satan to be one and the same.Therefore we can conclude that Eve was having a conversation with a human who has in mind the things of humans.
The Bible doesn't contradict itself. If it does contradict itself, then our conversation is meaningless anyone.
So, who was this human?
As well, just as you keep asking me how Satan can influence others, I now ask the same of you: How can Satan (the person you think Satan is) influence and mislead the “entire inhabited earth”?
REVELATION 12:9
“So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him.”And of course, flesh (man) does not reside in heaven, yet verse 8 and 12 say that Satan was removed from heaven.
And, heaven is here contrasted with earth, so in this case, “heaven” probably actually means “heaven” (as opposed to the earth.)How would you answer such things?
Hi David,The bible gives several examples speaking about man, or Kings and their nations, trying to rise up to the heavens.
All throughout the bible and history we see kings rise and fall. Their hearts are full of pride, they oppress people because of it and so their authority must be destroyed.
Men who follow the ways of the flesh and not the ways of God, must be brought down.
Isa 2:11 The eyes of the arrogant man will be humbled and the pride of men brought low; the Lord alone will be exalted in that day.
Isa 2:17 The arrogance of man will be brought low and the pride of men humbled; the Lord alone will be exalted in that day,
Isa 37:23 Who is it you have insulted and blasphemed? Against whom have you raised your voice and lifted your eyes in pride? Against the Holy One of Israel!
Jer 49:16 The terror you inspire and the pride of your heart have deceived you, you who live in the clefts of the rocks, who occupy the heights of the hill. Though you build your nest as high as the eagle's, from there I will bring you down,” declares the Lord.
Ob 1:3 The pride of your heart has deceived you, you who live in the clefts of the rocks and make your home on the heights, you who say to yourself, 'Who can bring me down to the ground?'
Job 20:4 “Surely you know how it has been from of old, ever since man was placed on the earth, 5 that the mirth of the wicked is brief, the joy of the godless lasts but a moment. 6 Though his pride reaches to the heavens and his head touches the clouds, 7 he will perish forever, like his own dung; those who have seen him will say, 'Where is he?'
Isaiah 14:13 For you have said in your heart: 'I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation On the farthest sides of the north;
14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.'
14:15 Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol, To the lowest depths of the Pit.
14:16 “Those who see you will gaze at you, And consider you, saying: 'Is this the man who made the earth tremble, Who shook kingdoms,
Revelation 12 is a sign, with symbols of what was to come on earth concerning man and man's kingdoms.
Revelation 12:3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on his heads.
Revelation 17:9 “This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. 10 They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for a little while. 11 The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction. 12 “The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast.
Satan is specifically referred to as being man and man's kingdoms. Satan is the evil authority of men, evil because they are men full of pride whom follow after their own hearts and their own sinful desires and oppress other people because of it.
Satan is not some fallen angel or other celestial being, who has control over the world through secret influences.
Matthew 6:9 “Pray then in this way: Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name. 10 Your kingdom come. Your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.
The idea of an angel falling from the presence of God is so absurd. It destroys all of God's credibility of Him being able to bring peace to earth, if He can't even manage to keep it with the angels of whom dwelt in His presence and already possessed the gift of immortality.
Jeremiah 25:30 And thou, thou dost prophesy unto them all these words, and hast said unto them: Jehovah from the high place doth roar, And from His holy habitation giveth forth His voice, He surely roareth for His habitation, A shout as of treaders down, God answereth all the inhabitants of the land,
What Holy Habitation? What authority, if God cannot even keep sin and peace out of the place of which He dwells?
Ps 118:20 This is the gate to Jehovah, The righteous enter into it.
Ps 140:13 Only — the righteous give thanks to Thy name, The upright do dwell with Thy presence!
The bible is clear, their could be NO angels in heaven capable of sin only God's creatures who have been made pure and are righteous do dwell in His presence. Angels have immortality for a reason.
The dragon in Revelations is directly said to represent Kingdoms on earth and is never said to be a pack of sinful angels fighting God in His Heavenly abode. The rulers of these Kingdoms think that they are above God, but God will cut them down, they will fall. They will see their fall coming and know that they have little time left, so they will try to cause as much destruction as they possible can until their bitter end.
Quote Nick…..wrong again , scripture says Jesus was sacrificed from the foundations of the world Hi Gene. What scripture is this?
Quote Even says that people were chosen before the foundation of the world. Rom. 8:28, 29: “We know that God makes all his works cooperate together for the good of those who love God, those who are the ones called according to his purpose; because those whom he gave his first recognition he also foreordained [“predestinated,” KJ] to be patterned after the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.” (Also Eph. 1:5, 11) Yet, to these same ones, 2 Peter 1:10 says: “Do your utmost to make the calling and choosing of you sure for yourselves; for if you keep on doing these things you will by no means ever fail.” (If the individuals were predestinated to salvation, they could not possibly fail, regardless of what they did. Since effort is required on the part of the individuals, it must be the class that is foreordained. God purposed that the entire class would conform to the pattern set by Jesus Christ. Those selected by God to be part of that class, however, must prove faithful if they are actually to attain the reward set before them.
Quote (david @ Sep. 09 2008,10:51) Quote Satan means adversary and there is not one single scripture that says that the adversary is an evil supernatural being. Satan is said to be the man who has in mind the things of men.
Revelations 12 shows the old serpent and Satan to be one and the same.Therefore we can conclude that Eve was having a conversation with a human who has in mind the things of humans.
The Bible doesn't contradict itself. If it does contradict itself, then our conversation is meaningless anyone.
So, who was this human?
As well, just as you keep asking me how Satan can influence others, I now ask the same of you: How can Satan (the person you think Satan is) influence and mislead the “entire inhabited earth”?
REVELATION 12:9
“So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him.”And of course, flesh (man) does not reside in heaven, yet verse 8 and 12 say that Satan was removed from heaven.
And, heaven is here contrasted with earth, so in this case, “heaven” probably actually means “heaven” (as opposed to the earth.)How would you answer such things?
Hi jodi. I'm wondering if you could explain this post.David…..what do you do with Eph 1:4 according as he hath chosen us before the foundations of the world.
And what do you do with what Jesus said (NO) MAN (CAN COME) unto me except the FATHER DRAW (Greek drag) HIM> Why do you want to leave GOD out of the picture, is it because your want to take credit for you salvation by your works, at the expense of GOD the Father.
Concerning Christ , 1 PET1:20 who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifested in these last times for you. How was he foreordained was it not to be the sacrifice for our sins. So in conclusion then Jesus was sacrificed before the foundations of the world. Is was all in the plan of God before the world began. Rev 13:8…> and all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb (SLAIN FROM THE FOUNDATIONS OF THE WORLD), and again Rev 17:8 …>the beast that thou sawest was and is not and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life (FROM) the FOUNDATION of the world, when they behold the beast the was and is not and yet is. Have you ever considered that the Beast the was and is not (during the 1000 year period ) and shall be for a short short season (IS) HUMAN NATURE ITSELF> and not an actual separate being but the evil in man himself. Evil during the thousand year reign of Christ and the Saints will be removed from man and even animals Natures will be changed also. And when people (Behold this) or come to realize this , it will cause them to wonder about it, because they never realized it before. Just and interesting side point.
peace………..gene
Quote David…..what do you do with Eph 1:4 according as he hath chosen us before the foundations of the world. I'm going to repeat much of what I've already posted.
Rom. 8:28, 29: “We know that God makes all his works cooperate together for the good of those who love God, those who are the ones called according to his purpose; because those whom he gave his first recognition he also foreordained [“predestinated,” KJ] to be patterned after the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.”
(Also Eph. 1:5, 11)Yet, to these same ones, 2 Peter 1:10 says: “Do your utmost to make the calling and choosing of you sure for yourselves; for if you keep on doing these things you will by no means ever fail.”
(If the individuals were predestinated to salvation, they could not possibly fail, regardless of what they did. Since effort is required on the part of the individuals, it must be the CLASS that is foreordained. God purposed that the entire class would conform to the pattern set by Jesus Christ. Those selected by God to be part of that class, however, must prove faithful if they are actually to attain the reward set before them.)
Eph. 1:4, 5: “He chose us in union with him [Jesus Christ] before the founding of the world, that we should be holy and without blemish before him in love. For he foreordained us to the adoption through Jesus Christ as sons to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will.”
(It is noteworthy that, at Luke 11:50, 51, Jesus parallels “the founding of the world” with the time of Abel. Abel is the first human who continued to have God’s favor throughout his life. Thus, it was after the rebellion in Eden but before the conception of Abel that God formed his purpose to produce a “seed” through which deliverance would be provided. [Gen. 3:15] God purposed that associated with the principal Seed, Jesus Christ, would be a group of his faithful followers who would share with him in a new government over the earth, the Messianic Kingdom.)
David….again you neglect the posted scriptures in Revelations to support you theology, and the construct Genesis to meet your theology. still neglecting Revelations. Your message of self salvation is purely wrong. Why did not (ANY) CHOSEN Diciple fail except for JUDAS then if it all a self choice religion and GOD did not know who would Fail before it ever happened . Jesus said he did not loose any except for the son of perdition that the scripture might be fulfilled. Why did not any of the others fail, even though they were no converted yet and broke faith with Jesus and scattered. Your work your way into the kingdom of God is flawed. WE are SAVED BY (GRACE) and that (NOT) of OURSELVES> you either believe that or not. IMO
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