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Numbers 5:14 And the spirit of jealousy come upon him, and he be jealous of his wife, and she be defiled: or if the spirit of jealousy come upon him, and he be jealous of his wife, and she be not defiled:
Does this scripture represent that there is some supernatural being out there that roams around possessing people to be jealous? No, the spirit of jealousy arises from within man, and it can rouse up other evil spirits as well, such as anger and hatred. The reality is, man can say and do horrible things unto others when these evil spirits rule over his mind and lead his mind to do evil works.
Galatians 5:19 And manifest also are the works of the flesh, which are: Adultery, whoredom, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, strifes, emulations, wraths, rivalries, dissensions, sects, 21 envyings, murders, drunkennesses, revellings, and such like, of which I tell you before, as I also said before, that those doing such things the reign of God shall not inherit.
When the mind of man sets itself on the flesh evil spirits manifest and when man follows those evil spirits sins are committed.
This is what happened to Cain.
Genesis 4:4 Abel also brought of the firstborn of his flock and of their fat. And the Lord respected Abel and his offering, 5 but He did not respect Cain and his offering. And Cain was very angry, and his countenance fell. 6 So the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? 7 If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it.”James 1:14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. 15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.
So not only from within man are we told that evil spirits can arise, for jealousy is indeed an evil spirit, but also God himself can inflict us with evil spirits.
Judges 9:23 Then God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the men of Shechem; and the men of Shechem dealt treacherously with Abimelech:
1Sa 16:14 But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.
Isaiah 19:14 The Lord has poured into them a spirit of confusion; and they have made Egypt stagger in all its doings as a drunkard staggers around in vomit.
Isaiah 29:9 Stay yourselves, and wonder; cry ye out, and cry: they are drunken, but not with wine; they stagger, but not with strong drink. 10 For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered.
1Ki 22:21 `And the spirit goeth out, and standeth before Jehovah, and saith, I — I do entice him; and Jehovah saith unto him, By what? 22 And he saith, I go out, and have been a spirit of falsehood in the mouth of all his prophets; and He saith, Thou dost entice, and also thou art able; go out and do so.
What I do not see in the bible is a scripture that speaks of another power that can inflict man with evil spirits.
The bible does not substantiate the notion that there are angels out there who have separated themselves from God, but yet still obtain HIS powers.
WJ….And Nick….>.Here is Just a few of many descriptions of Newton, Newton lived 300 years ago (1642-1727), was on of the greatest geniuses in all history—Perhaps the greatest, He is called the Father of modern science and the industrial revolution. he discovered many scientific laws. God chose Isaac Newton to impart many of His deepest secrets.
Newton is also said to be a devout believer in Christ and a Bible Scholar, (FLUENT) in ancient languages and (who translated directly from Hebrew). He was unusually drawn to the Prophet Daniel, which He began studying at age 12 AND continued until he died at age 85.
Another writes …> He was a wise virgin, he never had commerce with the opposite sex and was known for his powers of discernment, he had a nose for the truth often seeing the solutions to complex mathematical problems before proving them. He Knew more about the Bible, church history and prophecy than ALL of England. His library was rich in books of theological interests. He studied the Bible daily and was a firm believer in it's authority. His religion was charged with emotions and praise for the wonder of the infinite power of the Creator. He paid for the distributing of Bibles to the poor.
So gentlemen before i would start downing Newton I would at least read and study more of what He wrote. He in my opinion was a very devout man of GOD.
peace to you all……….gene
Nick………your making that call not me I believe Jesus was speaking to them on there level of understanding at that time they were completely emerged in pagan thought and practices. Show us one place where Jesus every said Satan was a Specific Person or there was a specific Devil going around jumping in and out of people. You problem is you don't understand what Spirit Is as i have explained to you before. Quite trying to make it appear me, Jodi, Newton, and others who do not believe in a literal devil being are against Jesus we are not. Its you who lack understanding on what we are saying thats the problem.
peace………..gene
Hi GB,
Jesus spoke of Satan often.
But you cannot accept his words?
Do you prefer those of MODERN men?You should not insult God's servant
He is truthNick……Jesus called Peter SATAN so do you believe SATAN WAS PETER Because Jesus called Him that. If You don't believe Peter is SATAN then I guess i could say the same thing about you, you don't Believe Jesus do you. You deny His words you must not be a believer then. If you say the Pharisees were not really the DEVILS children then you are denying Jesus word also right. Satan and devils are Spiritual metaphors not real beings. And like Jodi said in the old testament there is no mention of them ask yourself why, could it be because they don't exist?.And why aren't we today seeing all these mystic demons around jumping in and out of people like they were then, then, could it be because we have learned that there weren't real demons and devils at all but people with mental illnesses and things like epilepsies and personality disorders etc. Jesus said that KNOWLEDGE would be greatly increased, and it has we are no longer living in the dark ages of that time.
peace…………gene
Hi GB,
Did he?
Of what spirit were the sons of thunder?Luke 9:55
But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 25 2008,21:27) Hi GB,
Did he?
Of what spirit were the sons of thunder?Luke 9:55
But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.
Hi Nick,So of what spirit do you believe were the sons of thunder?
Also,
If Peter was a Satan for having in mind the things of men, why is it exactly that we need a supernatural being to make us think like ourselves?
So who exactly is this Satan of yours? Because to me he seems a lot like a character who suspiciously has a lot of the same powers as YHWH?
Hi Jodi,
They were not led of the Spirit of God.
Neither was Peter.
Neither is every man whose speech is not pure.Let your yes be yes… Mt5
The first question from WJ that he has been waiting for me to answer was,
1. How do you explain that the Greek shows the evil spirits doing the action as LU has pointed out.
To answer,
I do believe that it was the evil spirits that were doing the action. It is the identity of the evil spirits that we have a disagreement with. While your view of evil spirits mirrors that of the pagans, my understanding of evil spirits I believe keeps in better line with scripture, reflects quite clearly the reality of life, and as well aligns perfectly with the recent knowledge God has given us regarding the human brain and body.
As God did inflict King Neb. to act crazy, and as God said He would inflict and possess people with such curses as confusion of mind and madness and that such mental illnesses would be passed down genetically from one generation to the next, I can easily see how in the New Testament evil spirits or demons ‘devine powers’ would obviously represent that of YHWH’s.
When an evil spirit speaks, it is not the ‘person’ speaking, because that person is temporary out of commission because the disease has taken over their mind and that person is no longer themselves. The mind and body has been taken over by the disease.
The disease or condition could be anything from an infectious microorganism affecting the brain, to a brain tumor, or to something as simple as brain trauma, or something more complex like an imbalance of chemicals and hormones going on within the body and mind, or a combination of these things. Certain conditions affecting the brain can cause a person to speak uncontrollably at times and in some cases separate personalities can form within a person. In these cases it is NOT the true person we know speaking, but rather it is the infected body speaking because of the condition. This is why in scripture we see that it is the evil spirit doing the action, because the true person has been suppressed by the disease or condition.
Man can further hinder the genetic disorder if the person is exposed to negative environmental factors. As a matter of fact, many mental disorders lie dormant until a negative environmental factor inhibits the disorder.
In my opinion the worst environmental factor is that of man when he allows himself to be selfish, acting in sin towards other people.
Child abuse and neglect is one perfect example of a negative human environmental factor that can bring up a dormant disease. Abuse from one person to another is known alone to cause mental disorders. I personally do not know of one malevolent supernatural being that does such things, why would I, my mind is not stuck in the dark ages.
The unrighteous evil that comes into the world is established through man. When man follows his weak flesh uncleanness and evil spirits arise.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 25 2008,22:31) Hi Jodi,
They were not led of the Spirit of God.
Neither was Peter.
Neither is every man whose speech is not pure.Let your yes be yes… Mt5
My question was, by what spirit do you think that they were led by?WJ you said, Again Jodi, we do not need a translation of the translations. The scriptures generally are to be taken literally as they are without special pleading and inference.
If we are to take scripture literally as you say, then Satan means adversary, not the proper name of some invisible supernatural being. We should use the context of the scripture surrounding the given adversary or slanderer/liar and use it to define who or what the adversary or liar is. You’re the one WJ, with all due respect, that uses inference, and your inference comes directly from paganism.
Perfect example is in how you choose to define the spirit in Ephesians 2 according to man’s superstitions, instead of using the DIRECT definition given.
Ephesians 2:2…. the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
The spirit that is against us is defined quite clearly in Ephesians 2 as being nothing other then that which is IN man, his desires and his lusts. Man is led away by the evil spirit defined to us specifically in the bible as being our own desires and lusts.
Ephesians 2 aligns perfectly with, Mt 18:7 “Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to sin! Such things must come, but woe to the man through whom they come!
WJ…..it is man who has the evil workings in his heart that defiles him not some other being that is jumping in and out of him as you seen to think. Jesus said the things that defile the man come from (HIS) own Heart , not some thing else, and thats what defiles the man. Jodi and Newton are both right on this. IMO
peace………..gene
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 26 2008,18:12) Hi Jodi,
The spirit of the world.
The fruit of such is all shown in Gal5
Nick……they are received into the heart of man from the world, but once in the heart they are expressed by there words and actions for all that in the world, the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life comes from the world. It is this which we all have received into us and it caused our choices we made , but He who receives into his Heart the Spirit or intellect of GOD overcomes the world and all the lusts with it.No where does it say we received this from some external (Being) of some kind jumping in and out of us does it. We are being washed by the words of GOD, being cleaned up so to speak. James plainly say it's our own selves where lusts entices us and we are drawn away, not some other being working on or in us. The whole idea of demons and demon worship is Pagan and Has it origins in paganism. It has infected the Church ever since the apostasy's started way back. It is a lie there are no demons going around jumping in and out of people. IMO
peace……….gene
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 25 2008,23:12) Hi Jodi,
The spirit of the world.
The fruit of such is all shown in Gal5
Hi Nick,By nature we are said to be children of wrath. It is not said that some supernatural evil force whispers to us or jumps in and out of us and causes us to be children of wrath.
Ephesians specifically tells us that the spirit that is against us comes from within us. The bible warns us that if we do not rule over our spirit sin lies at the door.
Ge 4:7 If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it.”
Proverbs 16:1 Of man are arrangements of the heart, And from Jehovah an answer of the tongue. 2 All the ways of a man are pure in his own eyes, And Jehovah is pondering the spirits.
9 The heart of man deviseth his way, And Jehovah establisheth his step.
18 Before destruction is pride, And before stumbling — a haughty spirit.'
27 A worthless man is preparing evil, And on his lips — as a burning fire. 28 A froward man sendeth forth contention, A tale-bearer is separating a familiar friend.
32 Better is the slow to anger than the mighty, And the ruler over his spirit than he who is taking a city.
We must rule over our spirit, not rule over the influence of an evil spirit person named Satan. Our spirit is the Satan when it follows after the flesh instead of the wisdom of that which God gives.
Proverbs 25:28 Whoever has no rule over his own spirit Is like a city broken down, without walls.
Mal 2:16 For the LORD, the God of Israel, saith that he hateth putting away: for one covereth violence with his garment, saith the LORD of hosts: therefore take heed to your spirit, that ye deal not treacherously.
Ro 6:19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.
17 For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want.
Reality tells us that it is our environment that tests our flesh. We live in a world where it is survival of the fittest. The elements of this world arouses evil within our nature. Such elements come from God such as weather and natural resources, while others come from the creations of mankind and our relationships with one another.
The bible communicates to me that the spirit of the world is the spirit within man that allows itself to be directed by it's weak flesh.
Nick, how do you define the spirit of the world?
Nick………by what i have just stated i am not saying God Himself does not inflect evil conditions on man at times, because scripture plainly shows He has, just wanted to clarify that.
peace ……….gene
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