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Quote Either you can believe that the witness John was interpreting their actions and agree with their words (for he doesn’t clarify that it was a lie, neither does Yeshua correct them), or you accept that the Jews believed that because Yeshua said “God was his Father”, that he was making himself equal to God. Of course, he didin't really claim to be equal with God anymore than he really broke the Sabbath. He may have broken their man made rules from the Mishnah or whatever.
Quote If there was nothing wrong with claiming to be “The Son Of God”, (a term that was virtually unheard of among the Hebrews), then why would that be considered a reason for his death? I'm not saying there wouldn't be considered anything wrong with claiming this. I'm saying it would be a much more severe charge if he was actually claiming to be God himself. And that's what they would have charged him with.
I doubt that anyone is siding with the pharisees.
They are simply saying unto what they “Thought” he was blaspheming…GOD in their unbelief.
Thats why Jesus told them:
Quote
John 81Jesus went unto the mount of Olives.
2And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them.
3And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
4They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
5Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
6This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
7So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
8And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
9And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
10When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
11She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
12Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
13The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true.
14Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go.
15Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.
16And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.
17It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
18I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
19Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.
20These words spake Jesus in the treasury, as he taught in the temple: and no man laid hands on him; for his hour was not yet come.
21Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.
22Then said the Jews, Will he kill himself? because he saith, Whither I go, ye cannot come.
23And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
24I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
25Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.
26I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him.
27They understood not that he spake to them of the Father.
28Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
29And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.
30As he spake these words, many believed on him.
31Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
33They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
34Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
35And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
36If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
37I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
38I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
39They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
40But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
41Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
42Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
45And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
46Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
47He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
48Then answered the Jews, and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil?
49Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me.
50And I seek not mine own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth.
51Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.
52Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.
53Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?
54Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:
55Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.
56Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
Some people have some twisted views on who Jesus really is.
The answers are in the Bible…if we read it with prayer and the spirit of the Holy Ghost we would not need to ask questions of men.
GOD can show you what you need to know.Hi,
The most successful advertising campaign ever run.
Satan has convinced some bible students he does not exist.Nick…..is that right well I guess Isaac Newton was also deceived by Satan right ?, it could be your insistence of seeing everything through literal eyes might be the problem did you ever think about that?, BY saying God created a great Lucifer being who insubordinately turned against His WILL and became Known as SATAN, is to say GOD is then a failure, and His WILL is not truly done in Heaven right?. The devil and satans are men, not some creatures jumping in and out the them. Satan is an adversary attitude that is prevalent in man.If you understood biblical symbolism you would have not problem understanding that.
Nick…..who are you in God's eyes? I am sure no more the Issac Newton , but I also believe what his findings were and so does Jodi and others, This man could read and write Latin, Greek. and Hebrew fluently and spent most of His life studying and expounding scriptures, have you? To dismiss his understand is ignorance on your part at best. IMO
peace………gene
Nick…..NO, Isaac Newton was (NOT) a Satanist but was falsely accused of it as Jesus was also, by carnal minded people, who themselves were servants of Satan and did not even know it. All alchemist were accused to be satanist in his day. If you were to study the reason for that you could understand why. Discrediting a man as brilliant as Newton only show you lack of scriptural understand IMO. Even Ernestine said he was probably the most brilliant man who ever lived and He could not even advanced His throry without Newtons work.
So we have two of the most brilliant God given Minds in all history and you come along and dismiss one as a satanist, because he disagree with you view of the devil and Satan.
interesting………gene
Hi GB,
Servants of one you do not believe in?If you had to choose between the intellectual scientist who did not believe in Satan and Jesus who did, and who spoke of him often, what would be your choice?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 25 2008,11:01) Hi GB,
So studying the world elevates men in God's eyes?
Was Isaac not a satanist?
Hi brother Nick,
I think we should not judge those whom we don't know fully.Peace and love to you
AdamQuote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 25 2008,10:58) Nick…..who are you in God's eyes? I am sure no more the Issac Newton , but I also believe what his findings were and so does Jodi and others, This man could read and write Latin, Greek. and Hebrew fluently and spent most of His life studying and expounding scriptures, have you? To dismiss his understand is ignorance on your part at best. IMO peace………gene
Hi GBQuote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 25 2008,10:58) This man could read and write Latin, Greek. and Hebrew fluently and spent most of His life studying and expounding scriptures, have you? You still have not shown any proof of this.
Sir Isaac Newton was a scientist and not a Biblical scholar.
He like you and Jody practically stand alone in your belief that satan, demons or devils is man.
Yeshua wasnt having a conversation with himself in the wilderness.
WJ
Nick…….Jesus never said Satan was an actual begin did he and if He did, then Peter must have been Him, Because we all know Jesus did not lie, and the Pharisees were literal sons of their Father the DEVIL. I think you and WJ need to reexamine you belief system in demons and devils, imo .
peace……….gene
WJ…….you are wrong about Newton he certainly was a bible scholar as recent reveled letters have shown He did large biblical studies on the Bible and bible prophesies. He included God in all his observations including gravity. I will try to find where i read about his linguistic abilities.
peace…….gene
Hi GB,
So you would rather follow Isaac Newton?
He had a fascination with alchemy, sort of Harry Potter stuff.Gen I wonder how Satan fell from Heaven, if He was not a being? That is the biggest lie Satan wants you to belief.
Peace and Love IreneNick…today we call it chemistry not alchemy. You need to really check out what you are saying Nick. There was a reason the Kingdoms branded everyone who dealt with chemistry in those days as alchemist, they were afraid that they would discover how to create Gold and that would destory their monetary system of their day. There was no chemist only alchemist's at that time as i understand it.
Nick……..quite trying to brand me as a devout because I happen to think Newton was right in his observation of the devil.
peace…………….gene
Hi everyone!
I have been working on a post now for awhile in response to WJ's questions. It is turning out to be quite lengthy and I think I should try a different approach if we are really going to get somewhere with this topic.
The past week I have been evaluating countless numbers of scriptures. Yesterday and today I have been looking specifically at the word spirit, going through every scripture using the word.
What is interesting is that I did not find one scripture that speaks of a spirit as being defined as a malevolent supernatural being.
In the Hebrew language there is not an equivalence to the meaning of the English word demon? There IS NO word in the Hebrew that represents malevolent supernatural beings that are against God and influence man? As a matter of fact the ONLY supernatural being in the Hebrew language that had the power to inflict evil on humans was YHWH.
The Hebrew word for demon (shed) actually stood for false beings, beings that had no power because they were not real, they were thought up by man.
People, do you not find this to be very odd?
Pagans believed in demons. Demons were defined as being lower then gods and that they could bring both good and bad upon man. The Old Testament is very clear that YHWH's powers alone bring blessings and cursing upon man.
Looking at the history of the Christian church and its morphing doctrines on demons it should be absolutely clear that the church has allowed false ideas consistent with that of paganism to define the evil in the New Testament instead of using the clarity of the Old Testament.
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