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Hi GB,
I enjoy the mercy of God every day.
Everyone does.Why do you think this verse relates to eternal salvation for all?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 17 2008,14:25) Hi Irene,
Mal4
1For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.2But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
3And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.
Yes the Son will return after the great tribulation, the burning of the earth to rescue the remnant.
But that is the start of the millenium.
It has to be after the Millenium because Satan will be loosed and will deceive a multitude of men that will follow Him. If the earth is kept for the destruction of all evil men, that would include those after the Millenium.IMO
IreneHi Irene,
So establish for me from scripture please what you say here
“the earth is kept for the destruction of all evil men”Hi Irene,
I presume you mean
2Peter 3
7But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.So the heavens and the earth are mentioned.
Not all men and not just the earth?GB
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 17 2008,14:23)
Jodi…..Amen, Amen, you nailed it, It amazes me how these blind guides can't see or understand that.Why, because we don’t agree with you? Or is it because we take the scriptures literally for what they say without having to reinterpret the interpretations with special pleading and apologetics? So you and jodi are the only ones with the Spirit and are the only ones with the truth?
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 17 2008,14:23)
They are stuck in tradition of men and trying to say there represent the truth of Scriptures and they don't even understand it. Just puppets who don't use their GOD GIVEN MINDS of REASON and apply it to scripture…Puppets of whom? Of man? Then why don’t you engage and show us something or address my points rather than just standing on the sidelines as a cheerleader for jodi? According to you we are all puppets just acting out “cause and effect” by the strings attached and have no freedom over any choices or decisions but are just being dragged around by either God or our evil natures which makes no sense for if God is greater than our evil natures and desires that all men come to him then all men would be serving him now.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 17 2008,14:23)
…and when the see someone us their God given minds guided by His spirit and produce understanding and logic of Scripture they start making all kinds of trash talk, but can not counter the sound logic given, they are simple void of understanding and logic.
Show me some sound logic based on pure scriptures and not just an interpretation of interpretations or inference.Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 17 2008,14:23)
They try to brand people who give there opinions as “wisdom of the world” or “human Logic” To try to make people look up to them as if 'THEY” have the true understanding when in fact they understand very little if nothing at all.
Excellent post Jodilove your logic and God given mind to know scripture………..gene
Yes, of course this is how you win them over, just call them blind guides and ignorant while all along lifting yourself up above everyone else here by exalting your truth above everyone else’s, instead of showing them where they are wrong by addressing their points. We are supposed to have dialogue here and not attack others person.
Is this what we are supposed to believe is fruit of the Spirit and the acting out of his grace and works is? Is this the result of God forcing you to keep his commandments?
WJ
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 17 2008,15:42) Hi Irene,
I presume you mean
2Peter 3
7But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.So the heavens and the earth are mentioned.
Not all men and not just the earth?
Yes it is 2 Peter 3:7
But what does that say? Until that day of judgement…………
IreneHi Irene,
Against not untilNumber 1519
Transliteration:
eis {ice}
Word Origin:
a primary preposition
TDNT:
2:420,211
Part of Speech:
prep
Usage in the KJV:
into 573, to 281, unto 207, for 140, in 138, on 58, toward 29, against 26, misc 321Total: 1773
Definition:
into, unto, to, towards, for, among Wigram's frequency count is 1770 not 1773.
?Look all of these Scriptures up in Biblegateway: it makes it easier.
LAKE OF FIRE
If you want to know about the lake that is burning with fire and brimstone – whether or not it is literal – go to the (first) source: Enoch 67:4-7. It tells about how the Lake of Fire is a place under the earth. Scripture explicitly says Jesus has been “given all authority …beneath the earth.” In Enoch 1:7, Scripture declares that the earth will be “…wholly rent in sunder…”; at this time, the lake of fire and brimstone will be visible – and in this way alone the beast and his false prophet may be thrown “into” it Daniel 7:11 and Rev. 19:20. Let's go to Is. 66:24, where God says it will be located near enough to the righteous on the earth that the corpses of those who “..transgressed against [the Lord]” will be visible – and will be “an abhorrence to all flesh”.WJ…….you were given sound logical proof about many things . you just refuse to believe it, and it really is you who try to elevate yourself in every ones eyes not me. You attack any who does not agree with your dogma or trinitarian concepts and try to ridicule them if what they say doesn't meet your views You as well as Nick, use terms like “human wisdom”, “worldly Logic” or any thing you can to knock down what any one says that doesn't agree with your views, it oblivious to all. You even slam Issac Newton because He doesn't believe in the trinity and devil and Satan, and ridicule Jodi and me also. And when Jodi gave scriptural proof you refuse to even see it and began to ridicule it and her, God has given Jodi very good incite into this subject of devils and demons. You would do better to listen to what being said even if it disagree with your dogma.
IMO……….gene
Thanks DK, for suggesting I read Job again.
We know that like most generations in cultures past, story telling was a huge part of life. This was no exception to the Israelites. Just the other day I was reading about how the Israelites would tell stories where they would refer to the Messengers OF God, the ones of which came down to punish or curse them, Satans. If one could picture for a moment how one of these stories might go, it would be awfully similar to the story of Job.
So thanks again DK, I seemed to have read Job at an opportune time, that has revealed to me a different understanding from what I had even spoke about just a few days ago that makes greater sense.
In the Book of Job, the adversary is an adversary unto Job, even God in the book of Job is an adversary unto Job. A crucial point here is that we never see in the book of Job the adversary being an adversary unto God, but rather the adversary is respectful to God. If you are an Israelite you understand that God sends Messengers for help and Messengers to punish and curse. A messenger of God that comes to punish and curse is called by the Israelites Satan.
Within the book of Job there is no evidence of an evil celestial spirit being that is against God. Neither is there evidence that Job, or anyone else for that matter, is at any time a vessel doing sins according to the manipulation of another being.
We see in the book of Job the same understanding as we are given throughout the bible, that man’s own heart is the cause of his sins.
Job 1:5 When a period of feasting had run its course, Job would send and have them purified. Early in the morning he would sacrifice a burnt offering for each of them, thinking, “Perhaps my children have sinned and cursed God in their hearts.” This was Job's regular custom.
Job 5:12 He thwarts the plans of the crafty, so that their hands achieve no success. 13 He catches the wise in their craftiness, and the schemes of the wily are swept away.
God punishes man for man’s evils.
Job 8:3 Does God subvert judgment? Or does the Almighty pervert justice? 4 If your sons have sinned against Him, He has cast them away for their transgression.
Are we ever told in the bible that man is punished for allowing himself to be a vessel doing the evils of another being, or for allowing himself to follow another being?
Job 14: 1 “Man who is born of woman Is of few days and full of trouble.
Job 15:12 Why does your heart carry you away, And what do your eyes wink at, 13 That you turn your spirit against God, And let such words go out of your mouth? 14 “What is man, that he could be pure? And he who is born of a woman, that he could be righteous?
Psalms 10:2 The wicked in his pride persecutes the poor; Let them be caught in the plots which they have devised. 3 For the wicked boasts of his heart's desire; He blesses the greedy and renounces the Lord. 4 The wicked in his proud countenance does not seek God; God is in none of his thoughts. 5 His ways are always prospering; Your judgments are far above, out of his sight; As for all his enemies, he sneers at them. 6 He has said in his heart, “I shall not be moved; I shall never be in adversity.” 7 His mouth is full of cursing and deceit and oppression; Under his tongue is trouble and iniquity. 8 He sits in the lurking places of the villages; In the secret places he murders the innocent; His eyes are secretly fixed on the helpless. 9 He lies in wait secretly, as a lion in his den; He lies in wait to catch the poor; He catches the poor when he draws him into his net. 10 So he crouches, he lies low, That the helpless may fall by his strength. 11 He has said in his heart, “God has forgotten; He hides His face; He will never see.”
So the hiding wicked spirit, is the spirit of man ready to take advantage of another person due to the fact that God is not in his thoughts but rather his heart has turned to pride and is filled with greed.
Hi Jodi,
Did the ADVERSARY of Job have the power to inflict boils, to cause fire to come from heaven and to raise up the power of the wind? Job is scripture.Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 17 2008,11:31) Hi Jodi,
Did the ADVERSARY of Job have the power to inflict boils, to cause fire to come from heaven and to raise up the power of the wind? Job is scripture.
Hi Nick,I am seeing the story of Job from the perspective of an Israelite story. Picture the story as if an Israelite is telling it to a group of his own people. Keep in mind that the Israelites called a messenger of God, a Satan, when the messenger was coming down with the powers of God to punish and curse them.
Quote (Jodi @ July 18 2008,07:04) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 17 2008,11:31) Hi Jodi,
Did the ADVERSARY of Job have the power to inflict boils, to cause fire to come from heaven and to raise up the power of the wind? Job is scripture.
Hi Nick,I am seeing the story of Job from the perspective of an Israelite story. Picture the story as if an Israelite is telling it to a group of his own people. Keep in mind that the Israelites called a messenger of God, a Satan, when the messenger was coming down with the powers of God to punish and curse them.
This is where you take a false stepQuote (dirtyknections @ July 17 2008,12:09) Quote (Jodi @ July 18 2008,07:04) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 17 2008,11:31) Hi Jodi,
Did the ADVERSARY of Job have the power to inflict boils, to cause fire to come from heaven and to raise up the power of the wind? Job is scripture.
Hi Nick,I am seeing the story of Job from the perspective of an Israelite story. Picture the story as if an Israelite is telling it to a group of his own people. Keep in mind that the Israelites called a messenger of God, a Satan, when the messenger was coming down with the powers of God to punish and curse them.
This is where you take a false step
How is that?Have you studied the formation of how the Old Testament came to be?
Just because I said 'story' doesn't mean that I am implying that it is just a story.
The bible is made up of true stories!
Quote (Jodi @ July 18 2008,07:04) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 17 2008,11:31) Hi Jodi,
Did the ADVERSARY of Job have the power to inflict boils, to cause fire to come from heaven and to raise up the power of the wind? Job is scripture.
Hi Nick,I am seeing the story of Job from the perspective of an Israelite story. Picture the story as if an Israelite is telling it to a group of his own people. Keep in mind that the Israelites called a messenger of God, a Satan, when the messenger was coming down with the powers of God to punish and curse them.
Hi Jodi,
We do not have the right to turn the truth of scripture into myths.Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 17 2008,12:14) Quote (Jodi @ July 18 2008,07:04) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 17 2008,11:31) Hi Jodi,
Did the ADVERSARY of Job have the power to inflict boils, to cause fire to come from heaven and to raise up the power of the wind? Job is scripture.
Hi Nick,I am seeing the story of Job from the perspective of an Israelite story. Picture the story as if an Israelite is telling it to a group of his own people. Keep in mind that the Israelites called a messenger of God, a Satan, when the messenger was coming down with the powers of God to punish and curse them.
Hi Jodi,
We do not have the right to turn the truth of scripture into myths.
Um, did you not just read my last post dude.Have you ever heard of the term, 'true story.'
Just because I said story, you automatically have to assume that I mean a made up one?
Just like I said a few weeks ago, you are not a man of substance just one who likes to bother people….and to actually think that I almost felt bad for saying it earlier.
Quote (dirtyknections @ July 17 2008,12:09) Quote (Jodi @ July 18 2008,07:04) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 17 2008,11:31) Hi Jodi,
Did the ADVERSARY of Job have the power to inflict boils, to cause fire to come from heaven and to raise up the power of the wind? Job is scripture.
Hi Nick,I am seeing the story of Job from the perspective of an Israelite story. Picture the story as if an Israelite is telling it to a group of his own people. Keep in mind that the Israelites called a messenger of God, a Satan, when the messenger was coming down with the powers of God to punish and curse them.
This is where you take a false step
And this is all you have to say DK?I don't mind you declaring that I have taken a false step, but how about a little insight brother?
What is your understanding of the adversary in Job.
How do you identify him?
Hi Jodi,
I notice you only quoted the OT in your last post.
What of the teachings of Jesus Christ of Nazareth?
He spoke the truth of God and to listen to him is essential.Quote (Jodi @ July 18 2008,07:30) Quote (dirtyknections @ July 17 2008,12:09) Quote (Jodi @ July 18 2008,07:04) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 17 2008,11:31) Hi Jodi,
Did the ADVERSARY of Job have the power to inflict boils, to cause fire to come from heaven and to raise up the power of the wind? Job is scripture.
Hi Nick,I am seeing the story of Job from the perspective of an Israelite story. Picture the story as if an Israelite is telling it to a group of his own people. Keep in mind that the Israelites called a messenger of God, a Satan, when the messenger was coming down with the powers of God to punish and curse them.
This is where you take a false step
And this is all you have to say DK?I don't mind you declaring that I have taken a false step, but how about a little insight brother?
What is your understanding of the adversary in Job.
How do you identify him?
Job 1… 6 One day the angels [a] came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them. 7 The LORD said to Satan, “Where have you come from?”
Satan answered the LORD, “From roaming through the earth and going back and forth in it.”Do I need to go any further?
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