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Hi Jodi,
Which human adversary caused Job to get boils?
Jb2
7So went Satan forth from the presence of the LORD, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown.8And he took him a potsherd to scrape himself withal; and he sat down among the ashes.
9Then said his wife unto him, Dost thou still retain thine integrity? curse God, and die.
Hi Jodi,
How did the human adversary give him boils?Is the LORD you say is a man at the start of Job the same MAN speaking at the end?
Hi Jodi,
Is this a man speaking out of a whirlwind?Jb40
6Then answered the LORD unto Job out of the whirlwind, and said,7Gird up thy loins now like a man: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me.
8Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous?
9Hast thou an arm like God? or canst thou thunder with a voice like him?
10Deck thyself now with majesty and excellency; and array thyself with glory and beauty.
11Cast abroad the rage of thy wrath: and behold every one that is proud, and abase him.
12Look on every one that is proud, and bring him low; and tread down the wicked in their place.
13Hide them in the dust together; and bind their faces in secret.
Hi Jodi,
Did men send fire from heaven to kill the sheep?
How?
Jb1
16While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, The fire of God is fallen from heaven, and hath burned up the sheep, and the servants, and consumed them; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.I think finally we have come to a serious discussion on Satan and real devil. I also don't believe that some fallen angels have become evil spirits out of which one is called Satan. I am not able to get who exactly is the Satan and devil. We can not deny the existence of evil spirits which torment men which were also cast out by Jesus during his days. I think our Sis Jodi's interpretation of scriptures in Job and other places is alarming. I never heard such inferences before that only men are called Satan and no spirit. Please others also share your views.
Peace to you
AdamQuote (Nick Hassan @ July 11 2008,17:29) Hi Jodi,
Did men send fire from heaven to kill the sheep?
How?
Jb1
16While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, The fire of God is fallen from heaven, and hath burned up the sheep, and the servants, and consumed them; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.
What on earth are you talking about?Did men send fire from heaven?
Context, Nick.
Job attributed all his suffering to being the cause of God. God allowed for the wishes of the adversary to come upon Job. Whatever the adversary wanted upon Job God granted it to happen.
God holds the powers to inflict people with boils. Not some superstitious being.
God speaks to man through many means, I am sorry that you cannot see that simple truth and have to conveniently view scripture in such a narrow fashion in order to keep to your doctrine.
I guess you answered my question, apparently you do not understand what it meant for a Levitical priest to be a mediator between God and the Israelites and you are unfamiliar with the process of which they would communicate with their God.
Hi Jodi,
Why not take scripture as written?
Human contrivances to justify a belief are not of the way of Christ.Hi Jodi,
We should not make our own limited knowledge of truth greater than what is written.
We learn from what is written and do not filter what is written through our theology.Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 11 2008,20:42) Hi Jodi,
Why not take scripture as written?
Human contrivances to justify a belief are not of the way of Christ.
Why don't you take scripture as written?Hi Nick,
Why does man give into his flesh in a manner that causes him to sin?
Does the bible say that fallen angels cause us to be self centered and selfish?
I suppose you want to blame fallen angels on our ignorance and inexperience too?
I think it would be helpful to those following and sharing in this topic to do a bible search and read through all the scriptures that use the word spirit.
NkJ it appears 523 times and in YLT it appears 571.
I have read through all of them twice before, but will do so again. Some interesting scriptures I have found so far.
De 34:9 Now Joshua son of Nun was filled with the spirit of wisdom because Moses had laid his hands on him. So the Israelites listened to him and did what the Lord had commanded Moses.
Judges 9:23 God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the citizens of Shechem, who acted treacherously against Abimelech.
1 Samuel 16:14 Now the Spirit of the Lord had departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the Lord tormented him.
1Sa 16:23 Whenever the spirit from God came upon Saul, David would take his harp and play. Then relief would come to Saul; he would feel better, and the evil spirit would leave him.
2Sa 13:39 And the spirit of the king longed to go to Absalom, for he was consoled concerning Amnon's death.
1 Kings 22:20 And the Lord said, 'Who will entice Ahab into attacking Ramoth Gilead and going to his death there?' “One suggested this, and another that. 21 Finally, a spirit came forward, stood before the Lord and said, 'I will entice him.' 22 “'By what means?' the Lord asked. “'I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouths of all his prophets,' he said. “'You will succeed in enticing him,' said the Lord. 'Go and do it.' 23 “So now the Lord has put a lying spirit in the mouths of all these prophets of yours. The Lord has decreed disaster for you.”
2 Kings 19:5 When King Hezekiah's officials came to Isaiah, 6 Isaiah said to them, “Tell your master, 'This is what the Lord says: Do not be afraid of what you have heard–those words with which the underlings of the king of Assyria have blasphemed me. 7 Listen! I am going to put such a spirit in him that when he hears a certain report, he will return to his own country, and there I will have him cut down with the sword.'”
2Ch 18:22“So now the Lord has put a lying spirit in the mouths of these prophets of yours. The Lord has decreed disaster for you.”
Job 4:15 A spirit glided past my face, and the hair on my body stood on end. 16 It stopped, but I could not tell what it was. A form stood before my eyes, and I heard a hushed voice: 17 'Can a mortal be more righteous than God? Can a man be more pure than his Maker? 18 If God places no trust in his servants, if he charges his angels with error, 19 how much more those who live in houses of clay, whose foundations are in the dust, who are crushed more readily than a moth! 20 Between dawn and dusk they are broken to pieces; unnoticed, they perish forever. 21 Are not the cords of their tent pulled up, so that they die without wisdom?'
Job 32:8 But it is the spirit in a man, the breath of the Almighty, that gives him understanding.
Ps 51:12 Restore to me the joy of your salvation and grant me a willing spirit, to sustain me.
Psalms 76:7 You alone are to be feared. Who can stand before you when you are angry? 8 From heaven you pronounced judgment, and the land feared and was quiet– 9 when you, O God, rose up to judge, to save all the afflicted of the land. Selah 10 Surely your wrath against men brings you praise, and the survivors of your wrath are restrained. 11 Make vows to the Lord your God and fulfill them; let all the neighboring lands bring gifts to the One to be feared. 12 He breaks the spirit of rulers; he is feared by the kings of the earth.
Isa 4:4 The Lord will wash away the filth of the women of Zion; he will cleanse the bloodstains from Jerusalem by a spirit of judgment and a spirit of fire.
Isa 19:14 The Lord has poured into them a spirit of dizziness; they make Egypt stagger in all that she does, as a drunkard staggers around in his vomit.
Isa 37:7 Listen! I am going to put a spirit in him so that when he hears a certain report, he will return to his own country, and there I will have him cut down with the sword.'”
So far from Genesis to Isaiah I have yet to find what would constitute as a third spirit party. We have 'spirit' that involves man, and 'spirit' that involves God and those beings in heaven who follow Him.
Hi Jodi,
Yes God allows spirits to test men and achieve His purposes.
Satan cannot win as he is an agent to refine men who serve God.Hi brother,
I believe there are evil spirits as there is Holy Spirit. Both are real things not any human beings spoke figuratively.Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 12 2008,04:53) Hi Jodi,
Yes God allows spirits to test men and achieve His purposes.
Satan cannot win as he is an agent to refine men who serve God.
Good Morning Nick,So, I am a little confused.
Is this what you believe?
Satan is against God, but God uses him to refine those who are trying to follow Him?
So you believe that God uses Satan to tempt us into sinning, often doing so without our even knowing it, to refine us?
I fail to see this idea substantiated in the bible. What I do see, is that God is all powerful and knowing, he does not need to use some sinful being who is against Him to try and 'refine' us.
As we see in Deuteronomy 28, we should look to famine, disease, madness, all curses and darknesses of the like as coming from God, and NOBODY else, if we are indeed to heed His words.
As we see in the Gospels, we should heed to the word's of Yeshua who says that our sins come from within us, and the sinful ways of this world are brought on by man.
Those of false religions have created OTHER ideas as to where curses and inflictions come. The bible warns against taking on these false gods, and the false prophets who teach what they do not know.
Both Jews and early Christians have taken false religions and created the idea that angels against God have something to do with man's inflictions and or his sins. This is why we see in non cannocal books and in ancient religions other beings besides the Lord, causing cursing and infliction. But we are told in Jeremiah that these false religion and their 'demons', have no power, they cannot talk, or walk.
Jodi…..Amen, men want to blame some devil or demonic being who is fighting against God for the problems with the world when in fact it's whats in them that is. Religions have created this false ideology's and use it to cause fear giving them more control over peoples lives.
I do agree with what your saying
love and peace to you and your……………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 12 2008,09:07) Jodi…..Amen, men want to blame some devil or demonic being who is fighting against God for the problems with the world when in fact it's whats in them that is. Religions have created this false ideology's and use it to cause fear giving them more control over peoples lives. I do agree with what your saying
love and peace to you and your……………gene
Thanks brother Gene,Hoping your having a good weekend. I am getting ready to go shopping for all the stuff I need for my annual 41 mile hike down the wild and scenic Rogue River. It is a four day, three night trip. My husband and I are taking a large group this year. I am very excited, especially since I missed last year being pregnant and all. The trail is unbelievably beautiful and I always feel so close to God when I am there, my heart has been aching to go. I also have Rogue River Indian ancestry in my blood, so that makes it even more special, knowing that much of the trail we hike my ancestors made.
We encounter all sorts of wild life including beers and rattlesnakes. Thank goodness we have yet to see a cougar on the trail! Prayers for a safe trip would be much appreciated.
I'll probably be back later this evening. I am hoping to go through some more scriptures on the word spirit, and share what I find.
Peace and love, Jodi
Hi Sis Jodi,
Were your ancestors from India? Hmmm your name spells like our Indian name which means “Twin” or a “Pair”. What is this “Rogue river” you are talking about? where it is?Love to you
AdamHello brother Adam,
I don't know of any ancestors from India, I am pretty much a mutt of mainly white heritage, Scottish, French and German. My Grandfather on my mother's side has Rogue River Native American ancestry and my Grandfather on my Dad's side had some Cherokee ancestry too.
The Rogue River is located in Southern Oregon and has been one of my favorite places to be since I started camping down there at the age of 14. When I was 21 my friends bought some nice property and I spent 6 weeks getting paid to paint their house and all the out buildings. Let me tell you it was a tough job
, I think we spent as much time rafting and floating the river as we did painting!Love to you, Jodi
Adam……there is a good site you can go to it's Sir Issac Newton Project, if you get a cahnce read his work on the devil and demons, i believe you will find it quite good . I also, believe like Newton and Jodi on the subject of Satan and demons. The whole idea of a metaphysical Satan and demons, has it roots in paganism. Pagans believe in the demonic world and had all kinds of practices involved in their worship of them , this was called Idolatry and was completely forbidden by GOD. Because it deludes the minds of people and causes them to fall into all kinds of imaginary things, like witchcraft, magics, mysticism, God even told Moses to Kill anyone practicing any of these things, the belief of these things, generally incorporates two things, one is Idol worship with Sexual activity, as when Moses went up to the mountain to get the ten commandments and Aron made the Idol of Gold and the Children of Israel began to have a sex orgy. To ascribe some form of Spirit being to something that is not is idolatry. In the time of Christ people related all mental illness to demonic activity because they just did not understand why people would act that way so they ascribed it to demons,. While the early Hebrews were prevented from any of that type of reasonings, basically all the rest of the world was fill with it, and it was always influencing the ancient Israelites, And God many times spoke out against it and said He even destroyed the nations before Israel because of it. why because it causes a person to become debuted in His or Her thinking and still does today and these ideologies are every where even in Modern Christianity . If you get a chance go to the site and read up on what Newton said. This is a very important subject to understand,in order to get rid of all kinds of superstitions and idolatries.
Peace brother…………..gene
Quote (Jodi @ July 14 2008,03:03) Hello brother Adam, I don't know of any ancestors from India, I am pretty much a mutt of mainly white heritage, Scottish, French and German. My Grandfather on my mother's side has Rogue River Native American ancestry and my Grandfather on my Dad's side had some Cherokee ancestry too.
The Rogue River is located in Southern Oregon and has been one of my favorite places to be since I started camping down there at the age of 14. When I was 21 my friends bought some nice property and I spent 6 weeks getting paid to paint their house and all the out buildings. Let me tell you it was a tough job
, I think we spent as much time rafting and floating the river as we did painting!Love to you, Jodi
Hi Jodi,
Thanks for sharing your personal information. I misunderstood when you mentioned Indian ancestory in your earlier post. Even the name Jodi is similar to our Indian names. Nice memories of yours of Rogue River. Have nice time when you go there. I do enjoy your posts especially posts on conception of Jesus and denying the existence of real Satan. Still I am not convinced on denying real Satan and devil. May be I have to go through the sites that our brother Gene mentioned in his post. I only request you to come down to my level who only believed the existence of real devil and Satan so far and explain Satan and devil. I know you also might have believed their existence earlier. If you bring out the background how you understood this new concept of denying the existence of real Satan and devil may be helpful to me.
Thanks and love to you
Adam
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