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Hi GB,
It would be better to align your ideas with the Master.
He met him and was taken to the top of the temple.Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 08 2008,16:07) Irene…..the word Satan only means adversary nothing else, What do you do with Jesus calling Peter Satan then. He did not mean Peter was actually the being Satan did He, and if Jesus did not lie then there has to be another way of looking at the word Satan . The bible is full of metaphor's, and symbolism and parables,and analogies, in fact it can't be understood completely without knowing them.
even the gospel of the Kingdom is all given in parables there must be 30 or 40 of them. So a person could not even understand the Gospel with out Know them.Satan i believe is metaphorically speaking. imo
love and peace to you and yours…………….gene
Jesus was tempted by Satan. He is a real being and not just a adversary. That is what He however is.
As far as Jesus saying to Peter get behind me, Satan, is simply that what Peter was doing displeased Jesus. So you give the only Scripture that stands out in a symbolic way and ignore all other Scripture is not wise to do.
Luke 10:18, Luke 22:31, Job 1:6, Math. 4:10,Math. 16:23
Mark 3:28 Acts 5:3, 1 Corinth. 5:5 2 Corinth. 11:14, 2 Thes. 2:9, Rev. 2:9, Rev. 2:24, Rev.12:9, Rev. 20:7
These are all the Scriptures that say something about Satan.The one Scripture that I like is in Luke 10:18
This is Jesus speaking that He saw Satan falling like Lightning from Heaven.
Also in Mark Jesus talks about Satan.
And of course Math. were Satan tempts Jesus. Here the first verses say Devil. But then Jesus calls Him Satan.I just can't see how anybody can say that Satan is not real. Like I said before the biggest lie he is telling now. He has deceived many.
Peace and Love Irene
Isaiah 54:16. Behold! I,I created the artificer who blows inyo the fire of coal,
And brings forth an implement for his occupation.
And I, I created the ruiner to harm.
God created Satan, the “adversary”.
How can anything exist that God did not creat? Is there another creator?Blessings.
Chosenone ….yes God did create Adversary's or Satan's and God himself can be an adversary at time saying to go tell them i am against them. Is there an actual being as a Satan i am not sure of that, I know Issac Newton at first thought there was but after a long study of the subject He concluded there was not such thing a Devil or Satan being, Remember Jesus said the Pharisees were of their father the devil, does that mean the being the devil father them, No, they were just being adversary's and therefore took on the nature or image of a devil. They literally were not devils. The bible has a lot of symbolic language in it , and it can be confusing at times.
peace to you…….gene
Quote (chosenone @ July 08 2008,17:51) Isaiah 54:16. Behold! I,I created the artificer who blows inyo the fire of coal,
And brings forth an implement for his occupation.
And I, I created the ruiner to harm.
God created Satan, the “adversary”.
How can anything exist that God did not creat? Is there another creator?Blessings.
look in more than one translation…and you will see what this scripture is saying brother JerryQuote (Gene Balthrop @ July 09 2008,04:38) Chosenone ….yes God did create Adversary's or Satan's and God himself can be an adversary at time saying to go tell them i am against them. Is there an actual being as a Satan i am not sure of that, I know Issac Newton at first thought there was but after a long study of the subject He concluded there was not such thing a Devil or Satan being, Remember Jesus said the Pharisees were of their father the devil, does that mean the being the devil father them, No, they were just being adversary's and therefore took on the nature or image of a devil. They literally were not devils. The bible has a lot of symbolic language in it , and it can be confusing at times. peace to you…….gene
GBSicknesses, or infections or mental illness, or adversaries that are not spirit beings does not have a kingdom which Yeshua says satan has.
Infections or the like do not carry on conversations. And Yeshua doesnt give them permision to cause 2 thousand swine to commit suicide unless they are spirit beings called demons, or Legion.
Jodi teaches heresy.
WJ
WJ….Satan's so to speaks kingdom is the whole earth which He deceives. For the whole earth lyes in deception. But besides , all the sickness and illness are allowed and there fore caused by God. Before you go off by what is said, let me tell you a true story.
my youngest daughter had a walking problem she was born with, and when she was about 8 years old we took her to the Shinier Hospital to get he legitimates cut so they would grow longer, she had to stay there for a whole week, so we left Her there and came home and after a week we went back to pick her up, and we went into the room she was in and she was so happy to see us, and she said to me “Dad i want you to meet my friend and She pointed to another bed and I looked and the site took my breath away and she tried to smile to show me she was glad to meet me but i could only stare and in order to keep from bursting out in tears I said i was going to get a drink of water, I almost ran out the door into a very large Hall room with tears pouring down my face i sat down on a bench that was there and looked up and said to God How could you do this to this little girl and put my face in my hands continued to weep, and suddenly this gentle voice said to me I did that for your sake Gene, and then He let me understand the little girl was fine because God was with her and God was using Her to soften hearts,” I will take out of you the stony Heart and give you a heart of Flesh”, this is done by these types of experiences in every ones life we are being created by them to be merciful and kind. now ask yourself if it were not for these things that God caused and allows How could we ever come to understand what evil and good is. What sickness and health is, There all teaching tools used and brought about by God, for our ultimate good.We only experience these things for around svnenty years or so, whats that to eternity hardly nothing, But God chose to teach us these things in our beginning and we will never forget these lesson either for ever, they are absolute needful for us to experience. So i believe God is behind everything that goes on in this world and only lets it go so far.
Peace to you ………..gene
thats the way I see it………peace …..gene
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 09 2008,05:15) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 09 2008,04:38) Chosenone ….yes God did create Adversary's or Satan's and God himself can be an adversary at time saying to go tell them i am against them. Is there an actual being as a Satan i am not sure of that, I know Issac Newton at first thought there was but after a long study of the subject He concluded there was not such thing a Devil or Satan being, Remember Jesus said the Pharisees were of their father the devil, does that mean the being the devil father them, No, they were just being adversary's and therefore took on the nature or image of a devil. They literally were not devils. The bible has a lot of symbolic language in it , and it can be confusing at times. peace to you…….gene
GBSicknesses, or infections or mental illness, or adversaries that are not spirit beings does not have a kingdom which Yeshua says satan has.
Infections or the like do not carry on conversations. And Yeshua doesnt give them permision to cause 2 thousand swine to commit suicide unless they are spirit beings called demons, or Legion.
Jodi teaches heresy.
WJ
W.J. Again I agrree, and some on this Website have followed Her and do not believe in a Satan either. Biggest lie ever told.
IreneQuote (Irene @ July 09 2008,06:21) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 09 2008,05:15) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 09 2008,04:38) Chosenone ….yes God did create Adversary's or Satan's and God himself can be an adversary at time saying to go tell them i am against them. Is there an actual being as a Satan i am not sure of that, I know Issac Newton at first thought there was but after a long study of the subject He concluded there was not such thing a Devil or Satan being, Remember Jesus said the Pharisees were of their father the devil, does that mean the being the devil father them, No, they were just being adversary's and therefore took on the nature or image of a devil. They literally were not devils. The bible has a lot of symbolic language in it , and it can be confusing at times. peace to you…….gene
GBSicknesses, or infections or mental illness, or adversaries that are not spirit beings does not have a kingdom which Yeshua says satan has.
Infections or the like do not carry on conversations. And Yeshua doesnt give them permision to cause 2 thousand swine to commit suicide unless they are spirit beings called demons, or Legion.
Jodi teaches heresy.
WJ
W.J. Again I agrree, and some on this Website have followed Her and do not believe in a Satan either. Biggest lie ever told.
Irene
IreneThanks!
But, I thought the “Trinity” was?
WJ
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 09 2008,06:19) WJ….Satan's so to speaks kingdom is the whole earth which He deceives. For the whole earth lyes in deception. But besides , all the sickness and illness are allowed and there fore caused by God. Before you go off by what is said, let me tell you a true story. my youngest daughter had a walking problem she was born with, and when she was about 8 years old we took her to the Shinier Hospital to get he legitimates cut so they would grow longer, she had to stay there for a whole week, so we left Her there and came home and after a week we went back to pick her up, and we went into the room she was in and she was so happy to see us, and she said to me “Dad i want you to meet my friend and She pointed to another bed and I looked and the site took my breath away and she tried to smile to show me she was glad to meet me but i could only stare and in order to keep from bursting out in tears I said i was going to get a drink of water, I almost ran out the door into a very large Hall room with tears pouring down my face i sat down on a bench that was there and looked up and said to God How could you do this to this little girl and put my face in my hands continued to weep, and suddenly this gentle voice said to me I did that for your sake Gene, and then He let me understand the little girl was fine because God was with her and God was using Her to soften hearts,” I will take out of you the stony Heart and give you a heart of Flesh”, this is done by these types of experiences in every ones life we are being created by them to be merciful and kind. now ask yourself if it were not for these things that God caused and allows How could we ever come to understand what evil and good is. What sickness and health is, There all teaching tools used and brought about by God, for our ultimate good.We only experience these things for around svnenty years or so, whats that to eternity hardly nothing, But God chose to teach us these things in our beginning and we will never forget these lesson either for ever, they are absolute needful for us to experience. So i believe God is behind everything that goes on in this world and only lets it go so far.
Peace to you ………..gene
thats the way I see it………peace …..gene
GBPraise God that he did something in you by that experience.
I do believe that God does things that cause us to respond to him. But we still make the choice to respond or not too.
He does draw us. Your reaction was good to the cause, however some would react the other way and accuse God of the evil done to the child.
God is not the author of evil and sickness. If YHWH was the author of these things then Yeshua went around undoing the works of YHWH.
WJ
Irene….believe me i did not follow Jodi i read a paper by Issac Newton on it and compared His writing with what i knew in scripture and found He was right in my opinion. Go to the Sir Issac Newton Project and read what He had to say on the subject. You might find it very interesting.
love to you and yours…….gene
Quote (Irene @ July 07 2008,22:47) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 08 2008,16:07) Irene…..the word Satan only means adversary nothing else, What do you do with Jesus calling Peter Satan then. He did not mean Peter was actually the being Satan did He, and if Jesus did not lie then there has to be another way of looking at the word Satan . The bible is full of metaphor's, and symbolism and parables,and analogies, in fact it can't be understood completely without knowing them.
even the gospel of the Kingdom is all given in parables there must be 30 or 40 of them. So a person could not even understand the Gospel with out Know them.Satan i believe is metaphorically speaking. imo
love and peace to you and yours…………….gene
Jesus was tempted by Satan. He is a real being and not just a adversary. That is what He however is.
As far as Jesus saying to Peter get behind me, Satan, is simply that what Peter was doing displeased Jesus. So you give the only Scripture that stands out in a symbolic way and ignore all other Scripture is not wise to do.
Luke 10:18, Luke 22:31, Job 1:6, Math. 4:10,Math. 16:23
Mark 3:28 Acts 5:3, 1 Corinth. 5:5 2 Corinth. 11:14, 2 Thes. 2:9, Rev. 2:9, Rev. 2:24, Rev.12:9, Rev. 20:7
These are all the Scriptures that say something about Satan.The one Scripture that I like is in Luke 10:18
This is Jesus speaking that He saw Satan falling like Lightning from Heaven.
Also in Mark Jesus talks about Satan.
And of course Math. were Satan tempts Jesus. Here the first verses say Devil. But then Jesus calls Him Satan.I just can't see how anybody can say that Satan is not real. Like I said before the biggest lie he is telling now. He has deceived many.
Peace and Love Irene
Luke 10:18 He replied, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.”Good Morning Mrs,
Jesus saw the adversary fall like lightening from heaven.
I believe that you are reading this scripture to fit your doctrine which is NOT substantiated in the bible. Everyone who believes in the fall of an angel from heaven must rely on IMO one poor interpretation of scripture added to another. Such as trying to say that Genesis 6 is talking about half breed angels and men, when it clearly and distinctively is speaking of MEN and MEN's wickedness. All because Son's of God are conveniently interpreted as being fallen angel's when YOU yourself said that after the angel's fell, were no longer called angels but demons, evil spirits, Satan. So why in the world would they be called in Genesis 6, 'Sons of God'? And why would scripture continue on to speak of Men and men's own evil coming from their OWN heart and mind if they were half breeds causing the evil? Then you try and extract from Isaiah and Ezekiel that these scriptures dually represent the fall of an angel. This is NOT truth but your interpretation of scripture that you use to prove a story that comes FROM OUTSIDE the bible. And of course we have Revelation 12. Which the dragon is said specifically to represent Kings. You take scripture once again and plug it not into the bible but to fit a made up story. When the truth is within the bible.
There is NO story in the bible of an angel being cast out of God's presence, due to jealousy and sin. The whole idea of such discredits God's plan and makes God a fool. For earth is to be as Heaven/God's Abode, and only the righteous and those worthy are able to dwell in God's presence. God's creatures capable of sin CANNOT dwell with God, for he is a consuming fire of which only those made Holy can see face to face.
We are told in the bible of several stories of Man's FALL, how man believes he is ABOVE God, and how he believes he can ascend above God, but God brings man down from his arrogance and position of authority.
Job 20:4 “Surely you know how it has been from of old, ever since man was placed on the earth, 5 that the mirth of the wicked is brief, the joy of the godless lasts but a moment. 6 Though his pride reaches to the heavens and his head touches the clouds, 7 he will perish forever, like his own dung; those who have seen him will say, 'Where is he?'
Pr 16:18 Pride goes before destruction, a haughty spirit before a fall.
When the Adversary falls like lightening from heaven, you are conveniently interpreting that to mean from God's heavenly abode. The heaven in these scriptures represents the sky, a place on high.
In Luke 10:17 we see an adversary, an enemy of Christ and his followers, fall. In that period of time usually, if you were not for something or someone then you were against it, or them. Christ sent out 7o into cities giving them power to overcome their enemies, which would be those that would want to persecute them and those who knew not the truth but worshiped and practiced lies and falsehood.
This is CLEAR if you chose to apply it to what is being told just a few short verses before, and those that follow after, rather then trying to fit it into your unsubstantiated doctrine.
Luke 10:1 After these things the Lord appointed seventy others also,* and sent them two by two before His face into every city and place where He Himself was about to go. 2 Then He said to them, “The harvest truly is great, but the laborers are few; therefore pray the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into His harvest. 3 Go your way; behold, I send you out as lambs among wolves. 12 But I say to you that it will be more tolerable in that Day for Sodom than for that city. 13 “Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the mighty works which were done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago, sitting in sackcloth and ashes. 14 But it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the judgment than for you. 15 And you, Capernaum, who are exalted to heaven, will be brought down to Hades. 16 He who hears you hears Me, he who rejects you rejects Me, and he who rejects Me rejects Him who sent Me.”
17 Then the seventy returned with joy, saying, “Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name.” 18 And He said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. 19 Behold, I give you the authority to trample on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall by any means hurt you. 20 Nevertheless do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rather rejoice because your names are written in heaven.”
Mrs, in my opinion you let your imagination define these words I put in bold, rather then looking to the bible as to what they represent. You have been blinded by a story that does not exist in the bible. If you use scripture and don't ADD, then you can see the truth.
Matthew 23:27 `Wo to you, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye are like to whitewashed sepulchres, which outwardly indeed do appear beautiful, and within are full of bones of dead men, and of all uncleanness; 28 so also ye outwardly indeed do appear to men righteous, and within ye are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness. (2 Co 11:14 And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.) 29 `Wo to you, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the sepulchres of the prophets, and adorn the tombs of the righteous, 30 and say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the b
lood of the prophets. 31 So that ye testify to yourselves, that ye are sons of them who did murder the prophets; 32 and ye — ye fill up the measure of your fathers. 33 `Serpents! brood of vipers! how may ye escape from the judgment of the gehenna?1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, 3 forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.
Heb 12:23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect,
1Pe 3:19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison,
1Jo 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
A spirit or spirits refers to human beings.
Spirits and doctrines of demons ARE not fallen angels, but MEN who are following their own made up traditions, rituals and regulations! Remember the word demon also represents false gods, how perfect then does that fit with false prophets.
Jer 16:19O Lord, my strength and my fortress, my refuge in time of distress, to you the nations will come from the ends of the earth and say, “Our fathers possessed nothing but false gods, worthless idols that did them no good.
Rev 9:20 But the rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands, that they should not worship demons, and idols of gold, silver, brass, stone, and wood, which can neither see nor hear nor walk.
No scripture substantiates the idea that sinful angels manipulate people into creating falsehood and 'traditions of men'. Demons, and false gods and the false doctrine that goes with them are FULLY the work of man and come from his own mind.
Ps 4:2 How long, O men, will you turn my glory into shame? How long will you love delusions and seek false gods? Selah
Jer 14:14 Then the Lord said to me, “The prophets are prophesying lies in my name. I have not sent them or appointed them or spoken to them. They are prophesying to you false visions, divinations, idolatries and the delusions of their own minds.
Jer 23:26How long will this continue in the hearts of these lying prophets, who prophesy the delusions of their own minds?
Mrs, there is not a scripture in the bible that says sinful angels deceive us. This is an idea that comes from a made up story. The bible is clear that man follows the delusions of his own mind. By these delusions come forth false gods, demons and their lying doctrines. All through out the bible we are given countless examples of the rise and fall of men in positions of authority and power. When Jesus said that he saw the adversary fall like lightening from heaven, he was not talking about an angel falling from God's abode, but the fall of men and their falsehood after he sent out the seventy into cities, whom he gave powers to overtake such serpents and scorpions.
Mrs, you said,
I just can't see how anybody can say that Satan is not real. Like I said before the biggest lie he is telling now. He has deceived many.”Could you tell me specifically, just HOW exactly a fallen angel goes around telling people lies that he does not exist?
Peace and love, Jodi
WJ….the voice i heard said (I) did it for your sake Gene. Here something else maybe you saw this on TV a few months ago, On a new reel, they had this camera set up in this street in Irac
more like a ally and the shells and bombs were going of all over the place and these two little girls maybe 3 or 4 years old, were there just horrified, and they didn't know what to do, so one of them just put out Her little hand and held the other ones little hand, when i saw that it was i was horrified and shut the TV off and said “O” God I HATE WAR and anything that has to do with it. I still see those little girls in my mind and it still brings tears to my eyes. And i hate War. So i guess we all hopefully are learning to hate evil no matter what form it comes in.You remember when they ask Jesus who sin was it the boy or his parents and He said neither, but it was done to glorify God.
I believe God is in control of it all and wants us to experience these things to learn to appreciate things and to hate evil, and to become thankful and love the good.
It's all for our ultimate good i believe.
Peace and love to you and yours……..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 09 2008,07:11) WJ….the voice i heard said (I) did it for your sake Gene. Here something else maybe you saw this on TV a few months ago, On a new reel, they had this camera set up in this street in Irac
more like a ally and the shells and bombs were going of all over the place and these two little girls maybe 3 or 4 years old, were there just horrified, and they didn't know what to do, so one of them just put out Her little hand and held the other ones little hand, when i saw that it was i was horrified and shut the TV off and said “O” God I HATE WAR and anything that has to do with it. I still see those little girls in my mind and it still brings tears to my eyes. And i hate War. So i guess we all hopefully are learning to hate evil no matter what form it comes in.You remember when they ask Jesus who sin was it the boy or his parents and He said neither, but it was done to glorify God.
I believe God is in control of it all and wants us to experience these things to learn to appreciate things and to hate evil, and to become thankful and love the good.
It's all for our ultimate good i believe.
Peace and love to you and yours……..gene
GBI agree to disagree with you.
You believe that God does all these evil things to teach us about good.
I believe God is Love and while his love allows these things to happen to man because of mens own wickedness and sin.
God does punish sin and he is the righteous judge and the potter so he can do as he pleases with his creation.
But he does not put sickness and desease upon little children.
These things are a result of mans own sinfulness, or the kingdom of darkness.
The thief comes to steal and to kill and to destroy.
WJ
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 08 2008,11:19) WJ….Satan's so to speaks kingdom is the whole earth which He deceives. For the whole earth lyes in deception. But besides , all the sickness and illness are allowed and there fore caused by God. Before you go off by what is said, let me tell you a true story. my youngest daughter had a walking problem she was born with, and when she was about 8 years old we took her to the Shinier Hospital to get he legitimates cut so they would grow longer, she had to stay there for a whole week, so we left Her there and came home and after a week we went back to pick her up, and we went into the room she was in and she was so happy to see us, and she said to me “Dad i want you to meet my friend and She pointed to another bed and I looked and the site took my breath away and she tried to smile to show me she was glad to meet me but i could only stare and in order to keep from bursting out in tears I said i was going to get a drink of water, I almost ran out the door into a very large Hall room with tears pouring down my face i sat down on a bench that was there and looked up and said to God How could you do this to this little girl and put my face in my hands continued to weep, and suddenly this gentle voice said to me I did that for your sake Gene, and then He let me understand the little girl was fine because God was with her and God was using Her to soften hearts,” I will take out of you the stony Heart and give you a heart of Flesh”, this is done by these types of experiences in every ones life we are being created by them to be merciful and kind. now ask yourself if it were not for these things that God caused and allows How could we ever come to understand what evil and good is. What sickness and health is, There all teaching tools used and brought about by God, for our ultimate good.We only experience these things for around svnenty years or so, whats that to eternity hardly nothing, But God chose to teach us these things in our beginning and we will never forget these lesson either for ever, they are absolute needful for us to experience. So i believe God is behind everything that goes on in this world and only lets it go so far.
Peace to you ………..gene
thats the way I see it………peace …..gene
Amen, brother Gene,We have the same understanding of such things.
I had a very similar experience when I was 15 years old. I was channel surfing, we had just gotten a satellite dish which was quite a change from having just one channel. I came across real footage of an orphanage in Romania and the conditions there. There were hundreds of babies and toddlers who had flies swarming about them, they were hungry and were not developing properly because there was no one to love and hold them. I was utterly devastated and wondered how on earth a loving God could allow such a thing. After three days of depression and not eating and speaking to God, He comforted me in a similar way.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 08 2008,11:43) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 09 2008,06:19) WJ….Satan's so to speaks kingdom is the whole earth which He deceives. For the whole earth lyes in deception. But besides , all the sickness and illness are allowed and there fore caused by God. Before you go off by what is said, let me tell you a true story. my youngest daughter had a walking problem she was born with, and when she was about 8 years old we took her to the Shinier Hospital to get he legitimates cut so they would grow longer, she had to stay there for a whole week, so we left Her there and came home and after a week we went back to pick her up, and we went into the room she was in and she was so happy to see us, and she said to me “Dad i want you to meet my friend and She pointed to another bed and I looked and the site took my breath away and she tried to smile to show me she was glad to meet me but i could only stare and in order to keep from bursting out in tears I said i was going to get a drink of water, I almost ran out the door into a very large Hall room with tears pouring down my face i sat down on a bench that was there and looked up and said to God How could you do this to this little girl and put my face in my hands continued to weep, and suddenly this gentle voice said to me I did that for your sake Gene, and then He let me understand the little girl was fine because God was with her and God was using Her to soften hearts,” I will take out of you the stony Heart and give you a heart of Flesh”, this is done by these types of experiences in every ones life we are being created by them to be merciful and kind. now ask yourself if it were not for these things that God caused and allows How could we ever come to understand what evil and good is. What sickness and health is, There all teaching tools used and brought about by God, for our ultimate good.We only experience these things for around svnenty years or so, whats that to eternity hardly nothing, But God chose to teach us these things in our beginning and we will never forget these lesson either for ever, they are absolute needful for us to experience. So i believe God is behind everything that goes on in this world and only lets it go so far.
Peace to you ………..gene
thats the way I see it………peace …..gene
GBPraise God that he did something in you by that experience.
I do believe that God does things that cause us to respond to him. But we still make the choice to respond or not too.
He does draw us. Your reaction was good to the cause, however some would react the other way and accuse God of the evil done to the child.
God is not the author of evil and sickness. If YHWH was the author of these things then Yeshua went around undoing the works of YHWH.
WJ
Deuteronomy 7:15 and Jehovah hath turned aside from thee every sickness, and none of the evil diseases of Egypt (which thou hast known) doth He put on thee, and He hath put them on all hating thee.Ru 1:21 – I went out full, and empty hath Jehovah brought me back, why do ye call me Naomi, and Jehovah hath testified against me, and the Almighty hath done evil to me?'
2Ki 21:12 – therefore thus said Jehovah, God of Israel, Lo, I am bringing in evil on Jerusalem and Judah, that whoever heareth of it, tingle do his two ears.
Job 42:11 And come unto him do all his brethren, and all his sisters, and all his former acquaintances, and they eat bread with him in his house, and bemoan him, and comfort him concerning all the evil that Jehovah had brought upon him, and they gave to him each one kesitah, and each one ring of gold.
Exodus 4:11 “So the Lord said to him,” Who has made man's mouth? Or who makes the mute, the deaf, the seeing, or the blind? Have not I the Lord?”
Isaiah 45:6-7 “That they may know from the rising of the sun to its setting that there is none besides Me. I am the Lord, and there is no other; I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I the Lord do all these things.”
Deuteronomy 28:14 And thou shalt not go aside from any of the words which I command thee this day, to the right hand, or to the left, to go after other gods to serve them. 15 But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee:16 You will be cursed in the city and cursed in the country. 17 Your basket and your kneading trough will be cursed. 18 The fruit of your womb will be cursed, and the crops of your land, and the calves of your herds and the lambs of your flocks.
De 28:20 The Lord will send on you curses, confusion and rebuke in everything you put your hand to, until you are destroyed and come to sudden ruin because of the evil you have done in forsaking him.
27 The Lord will afflict you with the boils of Egypt and with tumors, festering sores and the itch, from which you cannot be cured. 28 The Lord will afflict you with madness, blindness and confusion of mind. 29 At midday you will grope about like a blind man in the dark. You will be unsuccessful in everything you do; day after day you will be oppressed and robbed, with no one to rescue you.
Yeshua was indeed HEALING people who reaped the curses of their fathers given to them by YHWH.
WJ I suggest your read ALL of Deuteronomy 28.
Hi GB
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 08 2008,11:19) . now ask yourself if it were not for these things that God caused and allows How could we ever come to understand what evil and good is. This is a confusing statement, for if God “caused it” how could he “allow it”?
It is false GB to say that we have to learn evil in order to know good.
Would that be the way you teach your children good is to teach them evil?
Would you take your child to witness a murder so that he or she would know the commandment which is good “thou shalt not kill”?
Quote (Jodi @ July 09 2008,07:44) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 08 2008,11:43) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 09 2008,06:19) WJ….Satan's so to speaks kingdom is the whole earth which He deceives. For the whole earth lyes in deception. But besides , all the sickness and illness are allowed and there fore caused by God. Before you go off by what is said, let me tell you a true story. my youngest daughter had a walking problem she was born with, and when she was about 8 years old we took her to the Shinier Hospital to get he legitimates cut so they would grow longer, she had to stay there for a whole week, so we left Her there and came home and after a week we went back to pick her up, and we went into the room she was in and she was so happy to see us, and she said to me “Dad i want you to meet my friend and She pointed to another bed and I looked and the site took my breath away and she tried to smile to show me she was glad to meet me but i could only stare and in order to keep from bursting out in tears I said i was going to get a drink of water, I almost ran out the door into a very large Hall room with tears pouring down my face i sat down on a bench that was there and looked up and said to God How could you do this to this little girl and put my face in my hands continued to weep, and suddenly this gentle voice said to me I did that for your sake Gene, and then He let me understand the little girl was fine because God was with her and God was using Her to soften hearts,” I will take out of you the stony Heart and give you a heart of Flesh”, this is done by these types of experiences in every ones life we are being created by them to be merciful and kind. now ask yourself if it were not for these things that God caused and allows How could we ever come to understand what evil and good is. What sickness and health is, There all teaching tools used and brought about by God, for our ultimate good.We only experience these things for around svnenty years or so, whats that to eternity hardly nothing, But God chose to teach us these things in our beginning and we will never forget these lesson either for ever, they are absolute needful for us to experience. So i believe God is behind everything that goes on in this world and only lets it go so far.
Peace to you ………..gene
thats the way I see it………peace …..gene
GBPraise God that he did something in you by that experience.
I do believe that God does things that cause us to respond to him. But we still make the choice to respond or not too.
He does draw us. Your reaction was good to the cause, however some would react the other way and accuse God of the evil done to the child.
God is not the author of evil and sickness. If YHWH was the author of these things then Yeshua went around undoing the works of YHWH.
WJ
Deuteronomy 7:15 and Jehovah hath turned aside from thee every sickness, and none of the evil diseases of Egypt (which thou hast known) doth He put on thee, and He hath put them on all hating thee.Ru 1:21 – I went out full, and empty hath Jehovah brought me back, why do ye call me Naomi, and Jehovah hath testified against me, and the Almighty hath done evil to me?'
2Ki 21:12 – therefore thus said Jehovah, God of Israel, Lo, I am bringing in evil on Jerusalem and Judah, that whoever heareth of it, tingle do his two ears.
Job 42:11 And come unto him do all his brethren, and all his sisters, and all his former acquaintances, and they eat bread with him in his house, and bemoan him, and comfort him concerning all the evil that Jehovah had brought upon him, and they gave to him each one kesitah, and each one ring of gold.
Exodus 4:11 “So the Lord said to him,” Who has made man's mouth? Or who makes the mute, the deaf, the seeing, or the blind? Have not I the Lord?”
Isaiah 45:6-7 “That they may know from the rising of the sun to its setting that there is none besides Me. I am the Lord, and there is no other; I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I the Lord do all these things.”
Deuteronomy 28:14 And thou shalt not go aside from any of the words which I command thee this day, to the right hand, or to the left, to go after other gods to serve them. 15 But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee:16 You will be cursed in the city and cursed in the country. 17 Your basket and your kneading trough will be cursed. 18 The fruit of your womb will be cursed, and the crops of your land, and the calves of your herds and the lambs of your flocks.
De 28:20 The Lord will send on you curses, confusion and rebuke in everything you put your hand to, until you are destroyed and come to sudden ruin because of the evil you have done in forsaking him.
27 The Lord will afflict you with the boils of Egypt and with tumors, festering sores and the itch, from which you cannot be cured. 28 The Lord will afflict you with madness, blindness and confusion of mind. 29 At midday you will grope about like a blind man in the dark. You will be unsuccessful in everything you do; day after day you will be oppressed and robbed, with no one to rescue you.
Yeshua was indeed HEALING people who reaped the curses of their fathers given to them by YHWH.
WJ I suggest your read ALL of Deuteronomy 28.
JodiSo you think these scriptures prove that God is evil?
So when it speaks of satan appearing before God and is given the authority to afflict Job that God personally put his hand to Job and afflicted him with boils?
Scriptures are clear that satan is the arch-enemy of man and God, and that God uses “allows” him to bring his judgments upon sinful wicked men. Just as God uses wicked nations to punish his people.
Because of this and being that God is soveriegn, yes it is his ultimate responsibility and no man can blame him.
However, we are under a New Covenant.
Maybe you can find something in the New Testament that says God does these evil things you say he does with his own hands?
There is a kingdom of darkness that we as children of light have been translated out of. That kingdom has been around since the conflict in the garden of Eden.
Satan for a time is the god of this world to those who have not been translated into the kingdom of Yeshua.
You still havent answered the questions.
How can a sickness or disease or infection carry on a conversation with Yeshua?
How can a sickness or disease or infection request to go into swine and Yeshua give it permision to go and cause 2000 swine to commit suicide?
How can sickness or disease or infection have a kingdom?
Jodi
I suggest that you read the NT and find where the Father placed sickness and desease and infections on men woman and children by his own hand as you believe.
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and t
o kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. Jn 10:10Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows. James 1:17
God has not changed. He is a good God and is Love. The works of evil are of satan and man and not from the hands of the Lord or else God's kingdom would be divided against itself.
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 08 2008,10:15) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 09 2008,04:38) Chosenone ….yes God did create Adversary's or Satan's and God himself can be an adversary at time saying to go tell them i am against them. Is there an actual being as a Satan i am not sure of that, I know Issac Newton at first thought there was but after a long study of the subject He concluded there was not such thing a Devil or Satan being, Remember Jesus said the Pharisees were of their father the devil, does that mean the being the devil father them, No, they were just being adversary's and therefore took on the nature or image of a devil. They literally were not devils. The bible has a lot of symbolic language in it , and it can be confusing at times. peace to you…….gene
GBSicknesses, or infections or mental illness, or adversaries that are not spirit beings does not have a kingdom which Yeshua says satan has.
Infections or the like do not carry on conversations. And Yeshua doesnt give them permision to cause 2 thousand swine to commit suicide unless they are spirit beings called demons, or Legion.
Jodi teaches heresy.
WJ
People with mental illnesses cannot carry on conversations? People who suffer from multiple personalities, don't carry on conversations? Do you have any clue as to what a brain tumor can cause a person to say and do?
My understanding is that the whole world lies under the wicked one, which is the man who does not want to follow God, and thus he is to God an adversary, a Satan.
Are the kingdoms of the world that will rise and fall that we see in Daniel, evil because of the ways of man, or does scripture tell us that the kingdoms that rule the world are evil because of fallen celestial beings?
Daniel 2:39 “After you, another kingdom will rise, inferior to yours. Next, a third kingdom, one of bronze, will rule over the whole earth. 40 Finally, there will be a fourth kingdom, strong as iron–for iron breaks and smashes everything–and as iron breaks things to pieces, so it will crush and break all the others. 41 Just as you saw that the feet and toes were partly of baked clay and partly of iron, so this will be a divided kingdom; yet it will have some of the strength of iron in it, even as you saw iron mixed with clay. 42 As the toes were partly iron and partly clay, so this kingdom will be partly strong and partly brittle. 43 And just as you saw the iron mixed with baked clay, so the people will be a mixture and will not remain united, any more than iron mixes with clay. 44 “In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever.
Mt 18:7 “Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to sin! Such things must come, but woe to the man through whom they come!
James 4:1 Where do wars and fights come from among you? Do they not come from your desires for pleasure that war in your members? 2 You lust and do not have. You murder and covet and cannot obtain. You fight and war. Yet you do not have because you do not ask. 3 You ask and do not receive, because you ask amiss, that you may spend it on your pleasures. 4 Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. 5 Or do you think that the Scripture says in vain, “The Spirit who dwells in us yearns jealously”? 6 But He gives more grace. Therefore He says: “God resists the proud, But gives grace to the humble.” 7 Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you. 8 Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded. 9 Lament and mourn and weep! Let your laughter be turned to mourning and your joy to gloom. 10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and He will lift you up.
WHO IS THE DEVIL?
Devil means liar, slanderer.The proud is someone who exaggerates and lies, making up stories he knows are not true to enlighten his own ego.
Are we ever told in the bible of a sinful angel being proud and then manipulating people to have the same characteristic?
Scripture shows that man himself is proud by his own nature, and thus is by his own nature a DEVIL!
It is these proud arrogant devils that rule the world and are adversaries to God.
James 3:1 Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly. 2 We all stumble in many ways. If anyone is never at fault in what he says, he is a perfect man, able to keep his whole body in check. 3 When we put bits into the mouths of horses to make them obey us, we can turn the whole animal. 4 Or take ships as an example. Although they are so large and are driven by strong winds, they are steered by a very small rudder wherever the pilot wants to go. 5 Likewise the tongue is a small part of the body, but it makes great boasts. Consider what a great forest is set on fire by a small spark. 6 The tongue also is a fire, a world of evil among the parts of the body. It corrupts the whole person, sets the whole course of his life on fire, and is itself set on fire by hell. 7 All kinds of animals, birds, reptiles and creatures of the sea are being tamed and have been tamed by man, 8 but no man can tame the tongue. It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison. 9 With the tongue we praise our Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in God's likeness. 10 Out of the same mouth come praise and cursing. My brothers, this should not be. 11 Can both fresh water and salt water flow from the same spring? 12 My brothers, can a fig tree bear olives, or a grapevine bear figs? Neither can a salt spring produce fresh water.
13 Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show it by his good life, by deeds done in the humility that comes from wisdom. 14 But if you harbor bitter envy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast about it or deny the truth. 15 Such “wisdom” does not come down from heaven but is earthly, unspiritual, of the devil. 16 For where you have envy and selfish ambition, there you find disorder and every evil practice. 17 But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere. 18 Peacemakers who sow in peace raise a harvest of righteousness.
Mark 7:20 He went on: “What comes out of a man is what makes him 'unclean.' 21 For from within, out of men's hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, 22 greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. 23 All these evils come from inside and make a man 'unclean.'”
Romans 1:8 Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they are senseless,
faithless, heartless, ruthless.Those who believe that fallen angels bring evil into our world are the ones committing heresy. These scriptures are CLEAR that God has given people over to a depraved mind, not over to the hidden manipulation of sinful angels. Instead of destroying sin, God let man's sin grow and mutate into greater more evil sins, all coming from within his own nature.
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