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Mike………..You and T8 and Pierre ,can not believe Jesus is a GOD, but you can believe Satan is a GOD, Now if that is not a twist of opinions i don't know what is. On the one hand you people argues SATAN is your GOD of this age, and on the other hand you say Jesus is not and never was a GOD, but Satan is a GOD. Talk about delusions and confusion>
I believe what GOD himself said He said He ALONE is GOD and there is NO other GOD BESIDE HIM> in many scriptures he said that, but you people figure you can rearrange his words to fit you false teachings and create another GOD . You can't even understand when Paul said ” there be so called GOD'S many , that So-Called is saying there really isn't any, other God, He even went on to say But unto us there is ONLY ONE GOD
I think your understanding of what TRUE GOD (IS) screwed up. I see no scripture that say GOD gave his power and authority to any other “being” except Jesus and even that is limited, where is there a scripture where he say he gave it to a Satan? Your problem is you see satan as a Being instead of a Spirit working in the childern of disobedience . Spirit is NOT a BEING it is (INTELLECT) in Beings. Any one can be a Satan so does that mean anyone can be a GOD also seeing they can be a Satan too, as Peter was according to Jesus. nd the Pharisees were also as well a Judas.
peace and Love……………………………………………………gene
Quote (t8 @ Feb. 07 2012,15:45) Quote (journey42 @ Feb. 06 2012,14:33) Quote (t8 @ Feb. 06 2012,08:40) KJ challenges me by saying that 2 Corinthians 4:4 is the only scripture that says or alludes to Satan being the God of this age. We have already given him other scriptures such as the ruler of this world being cast out, price of the air, do not love the world, or Satan offering high positions in the world to Jesus if he would bow down and worship him. But here is another that he cannot manipulate at all because it is straight to the point and clear for all to understand.
Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world.
KJ says, that Jesus is the God of this world.So who shall we believe.
A crazy Kangaroo who jumps from one view to another so longs as it backs up his false doctrine, or shall we believe Jesus Christ.Don't know about you, but I am with Jesus Christ. Who else?
Hi T8KJ is all muddled up.
I don't know where he gets that strange idea from?I would call him caught out
and he has no case
Agreed Journey42 and thanks.KJ, see my post in quotes.
What say you?
t8,I have already answered these points. For instance, you pointed out that Jesus said “NOW is the prince of this world cast out.” Uh yeah! He said “NOW.” Not our “now” but His “now.” Satan has been cast out! When Jesus said, “Now is the Son of Man glorified” did He mean our “now” or His “now?” He meant His own “now.” The same is true of satan being cast out.
NOW MEANS NOW t8! I marvel that you would invoke a statement which CLEARLY puts the timing of satan's demise in Jesus own time and construe it to mean that he is still operating in our time.
Come on! Does language mean anything to you?
But you think that by asking me the same thing over and over again ad infinitum will pressure me to change my mind.
I have also answered the point about satan's offering the kingdoms of the world. Mike first brought it up here and both Keith and I have answered this saying that satan was a liar and the father of lies. A liar says that he can give the kingdoms of the world to someone and you believe it?
But you think that by asking me the same thing over and over again ad infinitum will pressure me to change my mind.
This is why I am done debating with you t8. You won't move on to new arguments. You force us to keep on repeating ourselves. I would like to give you the benefit of the doubt that you have not seen my replies to these exact same points. But I know you better. I know that you are trying to pressure me to back off my answers. I can't do that until you first disprove me.
Grow up dude and move on to new arguments!
ACCEPT THE FACT THAT EVEN IF SATAN IS CALLED “THE PRINCE OF THE POWER OF THE AIR” AND IS OPERATING IN OUR “NOW” IS A FAR CRY FROM CALLING HIM “HOTHEOS.” YOU HAVE NOTHING IN THE NEW TESTAMENT THAT CALLS SATAN “HOTHEOS” AS I HAVE PROVEN FROM 2 CORINTHIANS 4:4.
LIVE UP TO YOUR SIGNATURE!!
KJ
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Feb. 06 2012,20:59) Your'e very arrogant because you insist that satan is God when you have been disproven.
No I haven't.Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Feb. 06 2012,20:59) You must first disprove the concept of plural unity in God before you can disprove that Christ is God. You have never disproven plural unity in God and never will.
Jehovah our God is ONE, Jack. He has a Son named Jesus. Remember that it was YOU who walked away from our “Plural God” debate.Quote (carmel @ Feb. 07 2012,08:06) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 07 2012,10:15) We know that the Son of God can't possibly be the God he is the Son of, Jack. Does that make us “arrogant”?
Mike,………….that's what the majority of christians believe in since the moment Jesus glorified.
Well,I have to grant you that, Charles. There is a vast amount of “Christians” who also worship Mary as the Mother of God, too.
I'm sure you're not blind enough to think that more believers make the doctrine more true.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 07 2012,08:38) Mike………..You and T8 and Pierre ,can not believe Jesus is a GOD, but you can believe Satan is a GOD…………..
We do believe Jesus is a god, Gene. He is the god who was with THE God in the beginning.Jesus, Satan, and many others in heaven and on earth are the gods that Jehovah is the God of. Hence the title “God OF gods”.
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Feb. 07 2012,09:00) ACCEPT THE FACT THAT EVEN IF SATAN IS CALLED “THE PRINCE OF THE POWER OF THE AIR” AND IS OPERATING IN OUR “NOW” IS A FAR CRY FROM CALLING HIM “HOTHEOS.” YOU HAVE NOTHING IN THE NEW TESTAMENT THAT CALLS SATAN “HOTHEOS” AS I HAVE PROVEN FROM 2 CORINTHIANS 4:4. KJ
Jack,Why do you keep narrowing the search to the NT? Satan is called “ho theos” by Jehovah Himself in the OT. Even if you won your 2 Cor point, you'd still be in the same boat because of 2 Kings.
Hi KJ,
Scriptural language is different.Speaking of the saints scripture says
they are SAVED
they are BEING SAVED
and they WILL BE SAVEDAll are true but from different perspectives
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 08 2012,01:38) You and T8 and Pierre ,can not believe Jesus is a GOD, but you can believe Satan is a GOD,
Jesus only does what he sees the Father doing and says what the Father says.Satan does what he wants. His will is to do what he wants.
He is the Father of lies and a murderer from the beginning.
Jesus openly says that he comes to do the will of the Father. Satan does his own will.
Therefore Satan is not to be equated to Jesus in the sense of calling one Theos OF something.
Jesus is not the God but was made both Lord and Christ.
Satan is the God (of this age). And as this age is temporary, so is his status as God of this age.Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Feb. 08 2012,02:00) ACCEPT THE FACT THAT EVEN IF SATAN IS CALLED “THE PRINCE OF THE POWER OF THE AIR” AND IS OPERATING IN OUR “NOW” IS A FAR CRY FROM CALLING HIM “HOTHEOS.” YOU HAVE NOTHING IN THE NEW TESTAMENT THAT CALLS SATAN “HOTHEOS” AS I HAVE PROVEN FROM 2 CORINTHIANS 4:4.
This is an admission that your Trinity Doctrine is wrong.You know that Satan being THE God of this age is a thorn in your side. So what do you do? You simply make YHWH the God of this age and problem solved right? No problem not solved.
Woe to those who say that good is evil and evil is good. We are told that we are to not love the world and the things in the world because the love of the Father cannot be in us. We are told by Jesus that his kingdom is not of this world. And KJ knowing all this insists that YHWH is the God of this wicked age.
You comment about my signature KJ, but it is applicable to you. You know what I am telling you because it is scripture and now you have 2 choices, you will align with scripture or cease to be honest.
Your choice your soul. No one can be held accountable for what you do but yourself.
You have been told beforehand.Quote (t8 @ Feb. 08 2012,17:25) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 08 2012,01:38) You and T8 and Pierre ,can not believe Jesus is a GOD, but you can believe Satan is a GOD,
Jesus only does what he sees the Father doing and says what the Father says.Satan does what he wants. His will is to do what he wants.
He is the Father of lies and a murderer from the beginning.
Jesus openly says that he comes to do the will of the Father. Satan does his own will.
Therefore Satan is not to be equated to Jesus in the sense of calling one Theos OF something.
Jesus is not the God but was made both Lord and Christ.
Satan is the God (of this age). And as this age is temporary, so is his status as God of this age.
t8yes,I back this up in full speed.
Pierre
jkoo
Quote ACCEPT THE FACT THAT EVEN IF SATAN IS CALLED “THE PRINCE OF THE POWER OF THE AIR” AND IS OPERATING IN OUR “NOW” IS A FAR CRY FROM CALLING HIM “HOTHEOS.” YOU HAVE NOTHING IN THE NEW TESTAMENT THAT CALLS SATAN “HOTHEOS” AS I HAVE PROVEN FROM 2 CORINTHIANS 4:4. 2Co 4:3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing.
2Co 4:4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.JACK ,YOU THINK YOU HAVE SOMETHING
YOU ARE SO BLIND YOU ARE IN TOTAL DARKNESS;LET ME HELP HERE ;LOOK IN VERSE 3 I HAVE IT QUOTED HERE IT SAYS; it is veiled to those who are perishing.
DO YOU SEE WHAT PAUL SAYS ? THE ISRAEL WAS BLINDED BY THE FACE OF MOSES AND SO HE PUT A VEIL ON,BUT PAUL GOES ON NOW THAT MOSES IS GONE IT IS THE GOD OF THIS AGE (SATAN) THAT BLINDED THE UNBELIEVERS SO THAT THEY MAY NOT SEE THE LIGHT OF CHRIST,Jn 1:5 The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.
Jn 1:10 He(CHRIST) was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.
Jn 1:12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—
Jn 3:19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.
Jn 3:20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.
Jn 3:21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God.”THIS IS WHAT THE BLINDNESS THAT SATAN THE GOD OF THIS AGE DO NOT WANT TO HAPPEN ,SO HE BLINDS PEOPLE SO THEY CAN NOT SEE OR EAR THE TRUTH OR THE LIGHT AND BE SAVED,
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 08 2012,10:57) jkoo Quote ACCEPT THE FACT THAT EVEN IF SATAN IS CALLED “THE PRINCE OF THE POWER OF THE AIR” AND IS OPERATING IN OUR “NOW” IS A FAR CRY FROM CALLING HIM “HOTHEOS.” YOU HAVE NOTHING IN THE NEW TESTAMENT THAT CALLS SATAN “HOTHEOS” AS I HAVE PROVEN FROM 2 CORINTHIANS 4:4. 2Co 4:3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing.
2Co 4:4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.JACK ,YOU THINK YOU HAVE SOMETHING
YOU ARE SO BLIND YOU ARE IN TOTAL DARKNESS;LET ME HELP HERE ;LOOK IN VERSE 3 I HAVE IT QUOTED HERE IT SAYS; it is veiled to those who are perishing.
DO YOU SEE WHAT PAUL SAYS ? THE ISRAEL WAS BLINDED BY THE FACE OF MOSES AND SO HE PUT A VEIL ON,BUT PAUL GOES ON NOW THAT MOSES IS GONE IT IS THE GOD OF THIS AGE (SATAN) THAT BLINDED THE UNBELIEVERS SO THAT THEY MAY NOT SEE THE LIGHT OF CHRIST,Jn 1:5 The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.
Jn 1:10 He(CHRIST) was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.
Jn 1:12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—
Jn 3:19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.
Jn 3:20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.
Jn 3:21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God.”THIS IS WHAT THE BLINDNESS THAT SATAN THE GOD OF THIS AGE DO NOT WANT TO HAPPEN ,SO HE BLINDS PEOPLE SO THEY CAN NOT SEE OR EAR THE TRUTH OR THE LIGHT AND BE SAVED,
Pierre
Quote SO HE BLINDS PEOPLE SO THEY CAN NOT SEE OR EAR THE TRUTH Pierre,
You are right,
That's what is happening to JWs.
peace and loe in Jesus
Charles.
Quote (carmel @ Feb. 09 2012,00:15) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 08 2012,10:57) jkoo Quote ACCEPT THE FACT THAT EVEN IF SATAN IS CALLED “THE PRINCE OF THE POWER OF THE AIR” AND IS OPERATING IN OUR “NOW” IS A FAR CRY FROM CALLING HIM “HOTHEOS.” YOU HAVE NOTHING IN THE NEW TESTAMENT THAT CALLS SATAN “HOTHEOS” AS I HAVE PROVEN FROM 2 CORINTHIANS 4:4. 2Co 4:3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing.
2Co 4:4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.JACK ,YOU THINK YOU HAVE SOMETHING
YOU ARE SO BLIND YOU ARE IN TOTAL DARKNESS;LET ME HELP HERE ;LOOK IN VERSE 3 I HAVE IT QUOTED HERE IT SAYS; it is veiled to those who are perishing.
DO YOU SEE WHAT PAUL SAYS ? THE ISRAEL WAS BLINDED BY THE FACE OF MOSES AND SO HE PUT A VEIL ON,BUT PAUL GOES ON NOW THAT MOSES IS GONE IT IS THE GOD OF THIS AGE (SATAN) THAT BLINDED THE UNBELIEVERS SO THAT THEY MAY NOT SEE THE LIGHT OF CHRIST,Jn 1:5 The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.
Jn 1:10 He(CHRIST) was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.
Jn 1:12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—
Jn 3:19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.
Jn 3:20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.
Jn 3:21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God.”THIS IS WHAT THE BLINDNESS THAT SATAN THE GOD OF THIS AGE DO NOT WANT TO HAPPEN ,SO HE BLINDS PEOPLE SO THEY CAN NOT SEE OR EAR THE TRUTH OR THE LIGHT AND BE SAVED,
Pierre
Quote SO HE BLINDS PEOPLE SO THEY CAN NOT SEE OR EAR THE TRUTH Pierre,
You are right,
That's what is happening to JWs.
peace and loe in Jesus
Charles.
CharlesWhat happen to JWs happen to all believers that pick a religion group to represent them.
Not only they have the burden to support that organization financially but they also get feed on it whatever they receive from it good or bad
This is because they have rejected to serve God our father directly just as Jesus and his apostles and early Christian did,so they have placed God and Christ in second and third position and a man made organization in position ONE,
Just as Israel wanted a king.
Pierre
True T,
The body of Christ is not divided and neither is the Spirit.
Grasp a hold of faith people and seek.Quote (t8 @ Feb. 08 2012,10:25) Satan does what he wants. His will is to do what he wants.
T8………….So produce a Scripture that says “Satan does what he wants.” Please show us this in scripture then you may have a point of him being a GOD. Lets see this scripture T8.peace and love………………………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 09 2012,06:10) Quote (t8 @ Feb. 08 2012,10:25) Satan does what he wants. His will is to do what he wants.
T8………….So produce a Scripture that says “Satan does what he wants.” Please show us this in scripture then you may have a point of him being a GOD. Lets see this scripture T8.peace and love………………………………..gene
genewe understand that t8 means within his power ,this means what God allow him to do,
it seems you are the only one to not understand this from scriptures ,we do not discuss the thing Satan his allowed to do but rather who he his in this world ,
Pierre
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 08 2012,23:10) So produce a Scripture that says “Satan does what he wants.”
Gene. Satan is the Father of lies and a murderer from the beginning. Who was the first to lie? Satan was. Who told him to lie? I doubt that anyone told him to lie, rather that he did it by his own accord.Jesus said “not my will but your will”. Obviously Satan does not follow suit and instead does his own will.
Of course YHWH has set boundaries that is a given. But within the boundaries of free will, Satan was able to exercise his own will and was able to lie by his own accord.
If you disagree Gene, then show me who it was that told Satan to lie and don't tell me God told him to do it because there is no lie in God and a being with no lies in him is not going to tell someone else to lie on behalf of him.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 09 2012,17:51) Quote (t8 @ Feb. 08 2012,17:47) But within the boundaries of free will……………
Oh no. Here we go again.
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