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t8 said
All that is living lives because God gives his Spirit. He also takes away his Spirit
Lives on Earth are not even one second compared to eternity.
The truth is that this moment matters a lot to us, but we will all die whether we are cattle or humans. We also all become food. Plants and animals that we eat will eat us in return when our bodies rot in the ground.
Yes but sheep and cattle and baby goats are innocent.
Read again the verse “If you had known what this means ‘I want mercy and not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the innocent.”
Please explain.
Plus, marshmallow contains gelatin.
(which btw is made by the skin, cartilage, and bones of dead animals).
t8 said
The wise focus on eternity and know that the living God is good and has the best intentions for all living things. Sometimes sacrifice is necessary especially in an imperfect world. In a perfect world maybe not, but in this world it means a lot.
The bloody sacrifice of innocent animals is needed??
Why then did God say he DID NOT speak to the fathers concerning animal sacrifices?
Do you think perhaps they made that part up.. copied the nations around them?
Look, you trust in lying words, that can’t profit. Will you steal, murder, and commit adultery, and swear falsely, and burn incense to Baal, and walk after other gods that you have not known, and come and stand before me in this house, which is called by my name, and say, “We are delivered”; that you may do all these abominations? Is this house, which is called by my name, become a den of robbers in your eyes? Look, I, even I, have seen it, says the LORD.
But go now to my place which was in Shiloh, where I caused my name to dwell at the first, and see what I did to it for the wickedness of my people Israel. Now, because you have done all these works, says the LORD, and I spoke to you, rising up early and speaking, but you did not hear; and I called you, but you did not answer: therefore I will do to the house which is called by my name, in which you trust, and to the place which I gave to you and to your fathers, as I did to Shiloh. I will cast you out of my sight, as I have cast out all your brothers, all the descendants of Ephraim.
Therefore do not pray for this people, neither lift up a cry nor prayer for them, neither make intercession to me; for I will not hear you. Do you not see what they do in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem? The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead the dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings to other gods, that they may provoke me to anger. Do they provoke me to anger?” says the LORD. “Do they not provoke themselves, to the confusion of their own faces?” Therefore thus says the Lord GOD: “Look, my anger and my wrath shall be poured out on this place, on man, and on animal, and on the trees of the field, and on the fruit of the ground; and it shall burn, and shall not be quenched.”
Thus says the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel: “Add your burnt offerings to your sacrifices, and eat meat. For I did not speak to your fathers, nor command them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices: but this thing I commanded them, saying, ‘Listen to my voice, and I will be your God, and you shall be my people; and walk in all the way that I command you, that it may be well with you.’ But they did not listen nor turn their ear, but walked in their own counsels and in the stubbornness of their evil heart, and went backward, and not forward. Since the day that your fathers came forth out of the land of Egypt to this day, I have sent to you all my servants the prophets, daily rising up early and sending them: yet they did not listen to me, nor inclined their ear, but made their neck stiff: they did worse than their fathers.”
“You shall speak all these words to them; but they will not listen to you: you shall also call to them; but they will not answer you. You shall tell them, ‘This is the nation that has not listened to the voice of the LORD their God, nor received instruction: truth is perished, and is cut off from their mouth.
Cut off your hair, and throw it away, and take up a lamentation on the bare heights; for the LORD has rejected and forsaken the generation of his wrath.'”
“For the children of Judah have done that which is evil in my sight,” says the LORD: “they have set their abominations in the house which is called by my name, to defile it. They have built the high places of Topheth, which is in the Valley of Ben Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I did not command, nor did it come into my mind.
Therefore look, the days come,” says the LORD, “that it shall no more be called Topheth, nor The Valley of Ben Hinnom, but The Valley of Slaughter: for they shall bury in Topheth, until there is no place to bury. The dead bodies of this people shall be food for the birds of the sky, and for the animals of the earth; and none shall frighten them away. Then will I cause to cease from the cities of Judah, and from the streets of Jerusalem, the voice of mirth and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom and the voice of the bride; for the land shall become a waste.” (Jeremiah 7)
t8, you really need to fix your forum? I made a post and it vanished after I posted it and clicked edit.
Anyway I said something like:
Does God need bloody animal sacrifices?
If so, why then did God say he did NOT speak to the fathers concerning animal sacrifices?
Perhaps they made their own mind up, copied the nations around them?
‘Look, you trust in lying words, that can’t profit. Will you steal, murder, and commit adultery, and swear falsely, and burn incense to Baal, and walk after other gods that you have not known, and come and stand before me in this house, which is called by my name, and say, “We are delivered”; that you may do all these abominations? Is this house, which is called by my name, become a den of robbers in your eyes? Look, I, even I, have seen it, says the LORD.
But go now to my place which was in Shiloh, where I caused my name to dwell at the first, and see what I did to it for the wickedness of my people Israel. Now, because you have done all these works, says the LORD, and I spoke to you, rising up early and speaking, but you did not hear; and I called you, but you did not answer: therefore I will do to the house which is called by my name, in which you trust, and to the place which I gave to you and to your fathers, as I did to Shiloh. I will cast you out of my sight, as I have cast out all your brothers, all the descendants of Ephraim.
Therefore do not pray for this people, neither lift up a cry nor prayer for them, neither make intercession to me; for I will not hear you. Do you not see what they do in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem? The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead the dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings to other gods, that they may provoke me to anger. Do they provoke me to anger?” says the LORD. “Do they not provoke themselves, to the confusion of their own faces?” 20Therefore thus says the Lord GOD: “Look, my anger and my wrath shall be poured out on this place, on man, and on animal, and on the trees of the field, and on the fruit of the ground; and it shall burn, and shall not be quenched.”
Thus says the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel: “Add your burnt offerings to your sacrifices, and eat meat. For I did not speak to your fathers, nor command them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices: but this thing I commanded them, saying, ‘Listen to my voice, and I will be your God, and you shall be my people; and walk in all the way that I command you, that it may be well with you.’ But they did not listen nor turn their ear, but walked in their own counsels and in the stubbornness of their evil heart, and went backward, and not forward. Since the day that your fathers came forth out of the land of Egypt to this day, I have sent to you all my servants the prophets, daily rising up early and sending them: yet they did not listen to me, nor inclined their ear, but made their neck stiff: they did worse than their fathers.”
“You shall speak all these words to them; but they will not listen to you: you shall also call to them; but they will not answer you. You shall tell them, ‘This is the nation that has not listened to the voice of the LORD their God, nor received instruction: truth is perished, and is cut off from their mouth.
Cut off your hair, and throw it away, and take up a lamentation on the bare heights; for the LORD has rejected and forsaken the generation of his wrath.'”
“For the children of Judah have done that which is evil in my sight,” says the LORD: “they have set their abominations in the house which is called by my name, to defile it. They have built the high places of Topheth, which is in the Valley of Ben Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I did not command, nor did it come into my mind.
Therefore look, the days come,” says the LORD, “that it shall no more be called Topheth, nor The Valley of Ben Hinnom, but The Valley of Slaughter: for they shall bury in Topheth, until there is no place to bury. The dead bodies of this people shall be food for the birds of the sky, and for the animals of the earth; and none shall frighten them away. Then will I cause to cease from the cities of Judah, and from the streets of Jerusalem, the voice of mirth and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom and the voice of the bride; for the land shall become a waste.” (Jeremiah 7).
t8 said
The truth is that this moment matters a lot to us, but we will all die whether we are cattle or humans. We also all become food. Plants and animals that we eat will eat us in return when our bodies rot in the ground.
Just as an aside, seeing you said this have you heard of the Yulin dog festival, or dog torture in general in China? Look it up.
What about the whales.. etc?
t8. you REALLY need to fix your forum. I made TWO posts and lost both of them when I tried to edit them…
For the THIRD TIME, I said something like…..
If bloody animal sacrifices were needed why did God say he DID NOT command the fathers concerning animal sacrifices??
Perhaps they made their own mind up and said “God said”?
The word that came to Jeremiah from the LORD, saying, “Stand in the gate of the LORD’s house, and proclaim there this word, and say, ‘Hear the word of the LORD, all you of Judah, who enter in at these gates to worship the LORD. Thus says the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, Amend your ways and your doings, and I will cause you to dwell in this place. Do not trust in lying words, saying, “The LORD’s temple, The LORD’s temple, The LORD’s temple, are these.” For if you thoroughly amend your ways and your doings; if you thoroughly execute justice between a man and his neighbor; if you do not oppress the foreigner, the fatherless, and the widow, and do not shed innocent blood in this place, neither walk after other gods to your own hurt: then will I cause you to dwell in this place, in the land that I gave to your fathers, from of old even forevermore.Look, you trust in lying words, that can’t profit. Will you steal, murder, and commit adultery, and swear falsely, and burn incense to Baal, and walk after other gods that you have not known, and come and stand before me in this house, which is called by my name, and say, “We are delivered”; that you may do all these abominations? Is this house, which is called by my name, become a den of robbers in your eyes? Look, I, even I, have seen it, says the LORD.
But go now to my place which was in Shiloh, where I caused my name to dwell at the first, and see what I did to it for the wickedness of my people Israel. Now, because you have done all these works, says the LORD, and I spoke to you, rising up early and speaking, but you did not hear; and I called you, but you did not answer: therefore I will do to the house which is called by my name, in which you trust, and to the place which I gave to you and to your fathers, as I did to Shiloh. I will cast you out of my sight, as I have cast out all your brothers, all the descendants of Ephraim.
Therefore do not pray for this people, neither lift up a cry nor prayer for them, neither make intercession to me; for I will not hear you. Do you not see what they do in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem? The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead the dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings to other gods, that they may provoke me to anger. Do they provoke me to anger?” says the LORD. “Do they not provoke themselves, to the confusion of their own faces?” Therefore thus says the Lord GOD: “Look, my anger and my wrath shall be poured out on this place, on man, and on animal, and on the trees of the field, and on the fruit of the ground; and it shall burn, and shall not be quenched.”
Thus says the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel: “Add your burnt offerings to your sacrifices, and eat meat. For I did not speak to your fathers, nor command them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices: but this thing I commanded them, saying, ‘Listen to my voice, and I will be your God, and you shall be my people; and walk in all the way that I command you, that it may be well with you.’ But they did not listen nor turn their ear, but walked in their own counsels and in the stubbornness of their evil heart, and went backward, and not forward. Since the day that your fathers came forth out of the land of Egypt to this day, I have sent to you all my servants the prophets, daily rising up early and sending them: yet they did not listen to me, nor inclined their ear, but made their neck stiff: they did worse than their fathers.”
“You shall speak all these words to them; but they will not listen to you: you shall also call to them; but they will not answer you. You shall tell them, ‘This is the nation that has not listened to the voice of the LORD their God, nor received instruction: truth is perished, and is cut off from their mouth.
Cut off your hair, and throw it away, and take up a lamentation on the bare heights; for the LORD has rejected and forsaken the generation of his wrath.'”
“For the children of Judah have done that which is evil in my sight,” says the LORD: “they have set their abominations in the house which is called by my name, to defile it. They have built the high places of Topheth, which is in the Valley of Ben Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I did not command, nor did it come into my mind.
Therefore look, the days come,” says the LORD, “that it shall no more be called Topheth, nor The Valley of Ben Hinnom, but The Valley of Slaughter: for they shall bury in Topheth, until there is no place to bury. The dead bodies of this people shall be food for the birds of the sky, and for the animals of the earth; and none shall frighten them away. Then will I cause to cease from the cities of Judah, and from the streets of Jerusalem, the voice of mirth and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom and the voice of the bride; for the land shall become a waste.” (Jeremiah 7).
IF YOU HAD KNOWN WHAT THIS MEANS: ‘I want MERCY and NOT SACRIFICE,’ you would not have condemned THE INNOCENT.” Matthew 12.7
Jesus Himself was like an innocent lamb.
He became after death a Lion.
There’s more to this than you imagine.
Just as an aside, seeing you said this have you heard of the Yulin dog festival, or dog torture in general in China? Look it up.
I hate cruelty to animals and people. I feel great empathy for living things and condemn cruel acts. I’m not debating or arguing for anyone being cruel. In fact I am pretty vocal when I see a person do something cruel.
That said, I was simply pointing out that sin requires a sacrifice of some kind because the price of sin is death. And sacrifice was necessary to pay the price of death. Now that it is paid, we can be restored.
In other words, sacrifice is good if the price paid reaps a greater good. And of course God prefers our heart rather than petty sacrifices.
We live with the impact of Christ’s sacrifice for us and we are asked in return to sacrifice our bodies urges to not allow the flesh to rule us, rather the Spirit to guide us toward the light and love of God.
Giving up earthly things to gain eternal heavenly things is a cost worth paying. It is a sacrifice not all are willing to pay, but it is worth it for sure.
Has nothing to do with a marshmallow test.
There is a lesson there if you are willing to hear it pertain to sacrifice. Just saying.
t8. you REALLY need to fix your forum. I made TWO posts and lost both of them when I tried to edit them…
Not sure what caused that, but suffice to say I post here more than you and this has never happened to me. Once a post is made, it stays. A user cannot delete it intentionally or by mistake.
I checked your posts in the CMS area and nothing is recorded there apart from what is already showing here. Perhaps when you edited your post, you overwrite the old content thinking you were making a new post?
T8. …king David said “sacrifice and offering do you not want else I would give it to you, but a broken and contrite heart is considered a sacrifice unto God.
Lets think about that , is Jesus sacrifice to be considered as God sacrificing a human being to forgive our sins ? Is that what forgives us?, or was it God the Father love for us so much that the Father planned and “allowed” Jesus to sacrifice himself for us all. I contend that it was the “love” shed abroad in Jesus’ heart, by the spirit of God, for us all, that caused him to sacrifice his life for us, and God out of his love for us all, planned it from the very beginning.
So in one sense it was indeed a true sacrifice, on the other hand it was a “self-sacrifice”, showing Jesus’ great love for us and the Fathers also, so in that sense it was nothing like the sacrifice of animal’s because animals don’t sacrifice themselves for us as Jesus did. But because he did sacrifice himself for us, through the will of GOD the Father, he can be looked at as God’s sacrifice for our sins or the, “lamb of God”.
Peace and love to you and yours. …………..gene
t8 said:
I hate cruelty to animals and people. I feel great empathy for living things and condemn cruel acts. I’m not debating or arguing for anyone being cruel. In fact I am pretty vocal when I see a person do something cruel.
Yeah… Just after my posts last week a video auto played on Youtube, something about the fur trade in China. It had me so upset… God knows.
t8 said:
I hate cruelty to animals and people. I feel great empathy for living things and condemn cruel acts. I’m not debating or arguing for anyone being cruel. In fact I am pretty vocal when I see a person do something cruel.
In other words, sacrifice is good if the price paid reaps a greater good. And of course God prefers our heart rather than petty sacrifices.
Why is “a sacrifice of some kind” needed when in your own words “God prefers our heart”?
I wouldn’t call the killing of innocent beings petty.
I checked your posts in the CMS area and nothing is recorded there apart from what is already showing here. Perhaps when you edited your post, you overwrite the old content thinking you were making a new post?
Not sure t8 but I edited the post and clicked send or whatever and it was gone (two posts). Never mind I won’t edit again 😀
Not sure t8 but I edited the post and clicked send or whatever and it was gone (two posts). Never mind I won’t edit again
If that happened it would be a first. Further, it would be a bug in the code that should be reported because this is setup does not allow deletions, thus what you stumbled across is a way round this.
The forum is built using BBPress and that sits on the most popular CMS on the Internet called WordPress which currently runs one-third of all websites worldwide. They have a bug reporting system here:
In the meantime, I can assure you that you can edit your posts by clicking on the Edit link. I doubt it would happen again to you, but if it did, it would be a good chance to describe how you actually achieved this. That info would be worth you suffering the loss of a post and I would then report the bug.
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