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The naming of ‘Old’ and ‘New’ Testament was the creation of Christianity.
Quite useful. Like the calendar, you put the messiah in the middle. BC AD.
Hebrew Bible is full and all sufficient for its religion and does not require any thing more as its Canon was already finalized with all the books in the Tanakh. Christian statement of Old (Law) required only for condemning sin is a another misinterpretation of God’s Torah.
Got it. So when the messiah comes, we do not have to hear his teachings and record them because the Old Testament is everything. If so, then why do we even need the messiah if the Old Testament has everything?
Messiah is expected to rule physical kingdom (Not spiritual as imagined by Christianity) for God’s people Israel.
The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.
And of course, he will be King of Israel. Every king has a throne. But he is the king of the whole earth and all people, not just a small slither of land in the Middle East and those who occupy it.
God’s Spirit is a promise to us and the deposit that gives us entry into the kingdom.
The messiah doesnt just restore Israel, but creation. God’s plan is bigger than you think. He even can restore your own soul. Up to you though.
Hi Proclaimer, thanks for your patience in replying my posts.
Got it. So when the messiah comes, we do not have to hear his teachings and record them because the Old Testament is everything. If so, then why do we even need the messiah if the Old Testament has everything?
Please remember that the Hebrew Messiah will not change Tanakh and in fact he will up hold it. It was purely the creation of NT writers that the Messiah would change every thing and invent a new religion. No where this is supported in the Hebrew Bible.
Characteristics of the Messiah
The Book of Jeremiah in the Tenakh states that the Messiah will be a great leader descended from King David.The days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will raise up for David a righteous branch, a king who will reign wisely. (Jeremiah 23:5)
The Book of Isaiah teaches that the Messiah will be a political leader and judge. He will create a fair government in Israel, which will become a centre for all politics worldwide.
Many Jews believe that when the Messiah comes, he will:
Rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem.
Bring about the end of war so that everyone can live in peace.
Unite all people regardless of differences like religion or culture.
Bring a true awareness of God to all people.
Signal the end of the world.Jews use the Hebrew term olam ha-ba, which means ‘the world to come’, to refer to the time after the Messiah’s arrival, which is also called the Messianic Age.
One of the principles of Jewish faith enumerated by Maimonides is that one day there will arise a dynamic Jewish leader, a direct descendant of the Davidic dynasty, who will rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem, and gather Jews from all over the world and bring them back to the Land of Israel.
All the nations of the world will recognize Moshiach to be a world leader, and will accept his dominion. In the messianic era there will be world peace, no more wars nor famine, and, in general, a high standard of living.
All mankind will worship one G‑d, and live a more spiritual and moral way of life. The Jewish nation will be preoccupied with learning Torah and fathoming its secrets.
The coming of Moshiach will complete G‑d’s purpose in creation: for man to make an abode for G‑d in the lower worlds—that is, to reveal the inherent spirituality in the material world.
Moshiach will be a man who possesses extraordinary qualities. He will be proficient in both the written and oral Torah traditions. He will incessantly campaign for Torah observance among Jews, and observance of the seven universal Noahide laws by non-Jews. He will be scrupulously observant, and encourage the highest standards from others. He will defend religious principles and repair breaches in their observance. Above all, Moshiach will be heralded as a true Jewish king, a person who leads the way in the service of G‑d, totally humble yet enormously inspiring.
What exactly will happen when Moshiach comes?
Maimonides states in his Mishneh Torah—a compendium of the entire halachic tradition—that Moshiach will first rebuild the Temple and then gather in the exiles. Jerusalem and the Temple will be the focus of divine worship, and “from Zion shall go forth Torah, and the word of the L‑rd from Jerusalem.”The Sanhedrin—the supreme Jewish law court of 71 sages—will be re-established, and will decide on all matters of law. At this time, all Jews will return to full Torah observance and practice. It should be noted that in this present age of great assimilation and emancipation, an unprecedented return of Jews to true Torah values has taken place. This “baal teshuvah” phenomenon is on the increase, and paves the way for a full return in the messianic era.
First error
Please remember that the Hebrew Messiah will not change Tanakh and in fact he will up hold it. It was purely the creation of NT writers that the Messiah would change every thing and invent a new religion. No where this is supported in the Hebrew Bible.
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
Second error
Characteristics of the Messiah
The New Testament teaches that the messiah came as a suffering servant. That he was despised, rejected, and sacrificed.
Then he returns as the reigning King headquartered in Israel where he will rule the nations. The messiah’s kingdom is glorious beyond your belief. You and others put little stock in the work of God, his mercy, and the scale at which he works with.
@t8
Ok, maybe this quote was not clear enough.
I have found a very clear quote from Irenaeus.
He said in his Book Against Heresies, 4.5.2.
“Christ Himself, therefore, together with the Father, is the God of the living, who spoke to Moses, and who was also manifested to the fathers.”What about that?
If you reject that, then you are cherry picking.
That’s not very honest, don’t you think?Gene,
I have found a very clear quote from Irenaeus.
He said in his Book Against Heresies, 4.5.2.
“Christ Himself, therefore, together with the Father, is the God of the living, who spoke to Moses, and who was also manifested to the fathers.”What about that?
If you reject that, then you are cherry picking.
That’s not very honest, don’t you think?Berean……yes God’s word was indeed with God, just us as your word is with you. You can’t separate yourself from your words, neither can God either .
peace and love to you and yours……….gene
Danny……………….Your hunting for anything that can contradict what Irenaeus said and clearly explained in (ca 185 AD) . Danny that the problem here people hunt and peck and add words and change meanings in order to force the truths that are clearly written, in other places in our text.
Danny I am telling you , Irenaeus in (ca.185 AD)peace and love to you and yours……Danny
Gene
Berean……yes God’s word was indeed with God, just us as your word is with you. You can’t separate yourself from your words, neither can God either .
Me
YOU WILL HAVE WON A GREAT VICTORY WHEN YOU UNDERSTAND HOW A CHILD CAN UNDERSTAND IT THAT IT IS NAMED THE WORD (OF GOD) AND WELL IT IS JESUS HIMSELF.
ELSEWHERE JOHN SAYS IN JOHN 1: 3
All things were made by HIM (THE PERSON JESUS); and without it nothing has been done that has been done.AND IN VERSE 7
The same (the Baptist) came for a witness, to bear witness to the Light, which all men through HIM (THE PERSON JESUS) could believe.HIM = JESUS but not a word spoken by God
And I saw the sky open, and here is a white horse; and he that sat on him was called Faithful and True, and with righteousness he judges and makes war.
[12] His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written down, which no one knew but himself.
[13] And he was clothed with a garment soaked in blood: and his name is called THE WORD OF GOD.God bless
Hey Guys,
Hebrews 1 tell us all that it was the Son that was in the beginning, the mystery is solved but you keep denying it Gene.
But in these last days He has spoken to us by His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, and through whom He made the universe.
Later in Hebrews 1 the Father identifies the Son as YHVH.
10And:
“In the beginning, O Lord (the Son, YHVH,-Psalms 102), You laid the foundations of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of Your hands.
11They will perish, but You remain;
they will all wear out like a garment.
12You will roll them up like a robe;
like a garmenth they will be changed;
but You remain the same,
and Your years will never end.”
If Gene wants to keep avoiding this truth, just cut and paste Heb 1 until it sticks. It really is insane to keep trying to understand what is meant by “the Word.” Hebrews 1 clears it all up. Jesus is the Son YHVH of the Father YHVH. They are two persons who are ONE.
“Christ Himself, therefore, together with the Father, is the God of the living, who spoke to Moses, and who was also manifested to the fathers.”
How do you not understand this yet? Yes, he was the one who appeared to Moses. And he is not God. Scripture teaches you this. If you have ears to hear, then listen to these verses. They are telling you that God is invisible, a Spirit, and no one can see him. And that his Son is his visible image and his messenger and representative. It teaches that when men saw God and spoke to him face to face, they were talking to the Messenger. Do you not understand that you cannot see and perceive God because he is not a man or an angel. He doesn’t have a body like you an me. And if creation let’s us see God as it is written, then for that reason, no man has an excuse to deny his existence right? If creation lets you see God, then how much more the full express image of the invisible God? How have you not understood this about God and his Son?
God is truly invisible
1 John 4:12
No one has ever seen God; ….1 Timothy 6:15-16
which God will bring about in his own time, God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords,
who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see.John 1:18
No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.The Son is the visible image of the invisible God
Colossians 1:15
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.John 14:9
Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, `Show us the Father’? Here we can see that Jesus was teaching the disciples about the Father.Despite the Son being the image of God and representing him. there is one God and that is the Father. He is a Spirit and is invisible. Jesus is not that God but his Son. He is God’s image and by looking at him, you will see God. If you have seen him, you have seen the Father.
1 Corinthians 8:5-6
For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”),
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.John 17:3 (English-NIV)
Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.@t8
Hi Proclaimer,
I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
But the question is if He is also God or just a god?
Hi Danny,
Jesus is the only begotten God and the Father identifies Him as YHVH who laid the foundation of the earth and the heavens are the work of His hands.
John 1:18
No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
Hi LU,
Thanks for your answer.
I believe that Jesus is an only begotten God.There is no article in the greek.
Do you believe that Jesus is Almighty God or a lesser God?
Hi Danny,
YOU: Do you believe that Jesus is Almighty God or a lesser God?
ME: Scripture:
John 13:3 Knowing that the Father had given him ALL THINGS into his hands and that
he came from God, and goeth to God;
JESUS “THE WORD” SPOKEN OF GOD, LEFT THE FATHER AS A SPIRIT, AND RETURNED TO THE FATHER GLORIFIED ONE SUBSTANCE
BOTH SPIRIT, GODLY AND FLESH, HUMAN.
GOD OF ALL FLESH Jeremiah 32:27
Hebrews1:2 In these days hath spoken to us by his Son, whom he hath appointed
heir of all things,
even the title of God. For the pleasure of the Father.
John17:10 And ALL MY THINGS are thine, and thine are MINE;
and I am glorified in them.
ONLY JESUS IS GLORIFIED IN ONE UNIQUE BODY BOTH
SPIRIT GODLY AND FLESH HUMAN, BOTH
GOD and MAN
THUS THE FATHER AS JUST, GAVE ALL THINGS TO JESUS? FOR THE SIMPLE REASON THAT JESUS DIED AND ESTABLISHED THE FATHER ON EARTH
AS THE ONLY TRUE GOD IN JESUS CHRIST, HIS SON!
1 John5:20And we know that the Son of God is come: and he hath given us understanding
that we may know the true God,
and may be in his true Son.
This is the true God and life eternal.
THE FACT THAT THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS
THE KINGDOM OF THE SON!
PLUS THAT JESUS, ON HIS DEATH, BECAME THE PROPRIETOR OF THE HUMAN FLESH BODY AND ITS ENTIRE PROCESS OF THIS WORLD. ORIGINALLY SATAN’S THROUGH SIN. THUS
JESUS AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME IS JUSTIFIED AS THE SOLE SOVEREIGN SPIRIT IN ALL HUMANS AT ALL COSTS, BOTH GOOD AND EVIL. ALL SUSTAINED BY HIM.
Colossians 1:15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16For in him were all things created in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, or dominations, or principalities, or powers:
ALL THINGS were created by him and in him.
17And he is before all,
and by him all things consist.
THE FATHER COULD IN NO WAY MANIFEST HIMSELF ON EARTH IN THE SATANIC FLESH AND BLOOD, BUT EMBODIED IN JESUS, HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN OF THE FATHER, DESPITE GODLY, HE COULD NOT ONLY BECOME HUMAN IN ALL THINGS LIKE HIS BRETHREN BUT EVEN DIE! FOR THE SIMPLE REASON THAT THE FATHER EMBODIED IN JESUS, SUPPORTED JESUS AGAINST SATAN AND HIS ENTIRE FORCE ON EARTH.
Jesus is the highest divine being FOR THE PLEASURE OF THE FATHER, and possesses
THE UNIQUE SUBSTANCE BOTH SPIRIT AND FLESH IN ONE INSTANT!
JESUS THOUGH PHYSICALLY MANIFESTED HIMSELF AFTER HIS RESURRECTION
AT THE SAME TIME STILL MAINTAINED HIMSELF AS A SPIRIT BEING!
Luke 24:36 Now whilst they were speaking these things, Jesus stood in the midst of them, and saith to them: Peace be to you; it is I, fear not.
37But they being troubled and frightened, supposed that they saw a spirit.
the above is as clear as crystal: THOUGH THEY SAW JESUS PHYSICALLY THEY THAUGHT HE WAS A SPIRIT BEING. a state manifested on earth by angels!
38And he said to them: Why are you troubled, and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
39See my hands and feet, that it is I myself; handle, and see:
for a spirit hath not flesh and bones,
as you see me to have.
Jesus simply declared that HE IS A PERFECT SPIRIT BEING WITH FLESH AND BONES!
40And when he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet.
41But while they yet believed not, and wondered for joy, he said: Have you anything to eat?
NOTICE THEY WERE CERTAIN THAT JESUS, ALL OF A SUDDEN,
CAME FROM NOWHERE IN THEIR MIDST, SO, THEY WERE SURE THAT HE WAS A SPIRIT.
BUT JESUS ASSERTED TO THEM THAT HE IS NOT JUST A NORMAL SPIRIT BEING! BUT HE ALSO POSSESSED THE HUMAN FLESH AND BONES! STILL, THEY DIDN’T BELIEVE IT, AND HOW! SO JESUS ASKED THEM TO GIVE HIM ANYTHING TO EAT.
42And they offered him a piece of a broiled fish, and a honeycomb.
NOW, GOD, THE FATHER HAS NOT THIS KIND OF STATE AS A SPIRIT, AS ONLY JESUS, SUPPORTED BY THE FATHER IN HIM FROM CONCEPTION, CAME IN FLESH, AND BECAME SPIRIT EVEN BEFORE HIS PASSION.
Luke 13:32 And he said to them: Go and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day
I AM CONSUMMATED.
READY TO DIE!
A PERFECT FLESH AND BLOOD BODY INNOCENT SIMPLY SO ON HIS RESURRECTION HE GAVE HIS PERFECT BODY TO THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE! HENCE ALL AUTHENTIC BROTHERS, CHILDREN OF GOD EMBODIED IN JESUS, THE MAN BORN AGAIN John3:3
FROM ALL THE DEAD SOULS BOTH IN HELL AND ON EARTH. This is pinpointed out by Jesus in the last supper when He said;
Luke 22:19……This is my body, which is
GIVEN FOR YOU…..
JESUS’ BODY GLORIFIED GODMAN ON THE CROSS BOTH SPIRIT AND FLESH ONE SUBSTANCE WITH THE HOLY GHOST! John 13:31-32, THUS HE NEVER REQUIRED HIS BODY ANY MORE AND HE GAVE HIS DEAD BODY TO THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE ON HIS RESURRECTION. THE MAIN REASON TO DIE, SO BY HIS DEATH, HE DESTROYED BOTH DEATH AND SATAN’S FLESH AND BLOOD BODY THROUGH SIN PLUS THAT HE BROUGHT MOSES LAW TO FUTILE.
Well declared in
1Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy hath REGENERATED us unto a lively hope, by the RESURRECTION of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4Unto an INHERITANCE INCORRUPTIBLE and UNDEFILED,
( UNIQUE HEAVENLY DIVINE BODY NOTHING OF THIS SATANIC WORLD.
GOD THE FATHER COULD NEVER ACCEPT ANYTHING OF THIS CURSED WORLD NEVER MIND SATAN’S SUBSTANCE OF FLESH AND BLOOD THROUGH SIN)
and that cannot fade, reserved in heaven for you,
5Who, by the power of God, are kept by faith unto salvation, ready
to be revealed in the last time.
ON THE LAST DAY OF THE LORD!
WHEN GOD WOULD BE ALL IN ALL IN
JESUS CHRIST
GOD THE FATHER WOULD EVENTUALLY POSSESS CURRENT JESUS OWN BODY!
ON THE LAST DAY OF THE LORD! PLUS THAT
HUMANITY WOULD BE LIKE HIM!
1John 3:2 Dearly beloved, we are now the sons of God; and it hath not yet appeared what we shall be. We know, that, when he shall appear,
we shall be like to him:
because we shall see him as he is.
obvious GOD THE FATHER AS JESUS CHRIST
John16:25 These things I have spoken to you in proverbs. The hour cometh, when I will no more speak to you in proverbs
but will show you plainly of the Father.
JESUS AS A SPIRIT, WAS SLAIN LIKE A LAMB FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD Rev.13:8 IN ALL SOULS, SINCE ADAM’S SIN, BUT IMMEDIATELY, AS SOON AS HE DIED, HE BECAME ALIVE BOTH AS A SPIRIT AND AS A HUMAN, AT LEAST TILL PENTECOST, SPIRITUALLY, HE GAVE ETERNAL LIFE TO ALL SOULS BOTH IN HELL AND ON EARTH!
John17:3 Now this is ETERNAL LIFE: That they (ALL THOSE IN HELL) may know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
ON JESUS’ DEATH, THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE WAS RECREATED ANEW PURIFIED BY JESUS’ OWN BLOOD. DESPITE THEY LIVED AS SINFUL AS EVER, UNAWARE OF WHAT OCCURRED IN THEIR SOUL.
GOD’S KINGDOM CAME GOD’S WILL WAS ON EARTH AS IT IS IN HEAVEN. TILL PENTECOST FOR SURE.
Luke 23:34 And Jesus said: Father, forgive them,
for they know not what they do….
Luke 17:20 And being asked by the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come? he answered them, and said: The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: (physically and visibly, but spiritually and hidden) 21Neither shall they say: Behold here, or behold there. For lo, the kingdom of God is within you.(SLAIN LIKE A LAMB….) 22 And he said to his disciples: The days will come, when you shall desire to see one day of the Son of man; and you shall not see it. 23And they will say to you: See here, and see there. Go ye not after, nor follow them: 24For as the lightening that lighteneth from under heaven, shineth unto the parts that are under heaven, so shall the Son of man be in his day. (GLORIFIED ON HIS DEATH) 25But first he must suffer many things, and be rejected by this generation. 26And as it came to pass in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. 27They did eat and drink, they married wives, and were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark: and the flood came and destroyed them all. 28Likewise as it came to pass, in the days of Lot: they did eat and drink, they bought and sold, they planted and built. 29And in the day that Lot went out of Sodom, it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. 30Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man shall be revealed. 31In that hour, ( OF HIS DEATH) he that shall be on the housetop, and his goods in the house, let him not go down to take them away: and he that shall be in the field, in like manner, let him not return back. 32Remember Lot’s wife. 33Whosoever shall seek to save his life, shall lose it: and whosoever shall lose it, shall preserve it. 34I say to you: in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. 35Two women shall be grinding together: the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left: two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be keft. 36They answering, say to him: Where, Lord? 37Who said to them: Wheresoever the body shall be, thither will the eagles also be gathered together.
JESUS LEFT THIS WORLD AND CARRIED WITH HIM IN FULL GLORY ALL SOULS IN HELL, ORIGINALLY SPIRITUALLY DEAD FROM ADAM’S SIN AND PRESENTED THEM HOLY AND PERFECT TO THE FATHER!
ALSO IN HIS PRESENCE, HE IS PRESENTING US AND ALL THE HUMAN RACE TILL THE END OF TIMES YET TO COME LIKEWISE TO THE FATHER.
Colossians 1:22 Yet now he hath reconciled in the body of his flesh through death,
to present you holy and unspotted, and blameless before him:
GOD THE FATHER COULD IN NO WAY ACHIEVE ALL THIS SINCE ALL CAME THROUGH DEATH!
THE DEATH OF JESUS!
THUS GOD THE FATHER FOR HIS OWN PLEASURE, EXALTED JESUS ONE SUBSTANCE WITH THE HOLY GHOST IN
JESUS CHRIST TO THE HIGHEST STATE EVER!
GODMAN!
GOD THE MIGHTY
Isaiah 9:6 For a CHILD IS BORN to us, and a son is given to us, and the government is upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called, Wonderful, Counsellor,
God the Mighty,
the Father of the world to come, the Prince of Peace.
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Hi LU,
I have to correct my statement.
There are manuscripts that calls Jesus with the article “THE only begotten God” in John 1.18.
And some without the article.
Does this make any difference?
Well, I have to study that a little bit more.
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