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Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 22 2010,15:50) mike
what the scriptures saying is that the flesh has one live and the spirit has one live,that s what i understand by combining both scriptures that is .but men as power to kill only one live,the flesh it is not given to men to be able to kill the spirit in men,that s only trough God s power,
this way the spirit + flesh =soul is true – but spirit + flesh =soul is not totally the same at birth than at dead;the spirit at dead includes all who we are + flesh = soul- but what we can see that there is only one component who can died by the hands of men,and that , what is left after that now represented by our soul with our acquired live experience good and bad for judgment .this is why it is said that birth in the beginning and dead the end after that is judgement;
terrariccaLet me just add this. The soul/body has a life, but the spirit/mind is not alive as the body is, but it is the part of our brain were all our memories are stored, and even though our brain decays, God preserves our memory so that when we are resurrected, we will be our self again, just as before, remembering all the good and the bad.
It is in the second death when both, body/soul and spirit/mind, will be destroyed.
A child is not born with a spirit/mind, it is born to acquire a mind/spirit as it grows and the brain develops. You could say, we create our own spirit/mind as we grow, and depending were we grow up, and who raises us, will form our spirit/mind. For instant, if a Russian baby is raised by American parents, it will speak American, it is totally dependent; now take an animal in the wild, it knows were to find milk, it knows to lie very still when danger comes, and it can run an hour after birth if it has to, we call that instinct.Georg
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 22 2010,15:53) Mikeboil……the word used there is not Garanna but GRAVE. It comes from the English word Hellos , which simply means to bury. Some like Nic uses Shilo, which also means grave.
Hi Gene,I appreciate your help and support always (even if you do call me mikeboil. It's BOLL
)The word is actually Gehenna, though. Here's some info on it:
Quote Gehenna” means “valley of Hinnom,” for it is the Greek form of the Hebrew geh hin‧nom′. In Jos 18:16, where “valley of Hinnom” occurs, LXX reads “Gehenna.” It occurs 12 times in the Christian Greek Scriptures, first appearing in Mt 5:22. The New World Translation renders it “Gehenna” in all its occurrences, namely, in Mt 5:22, 29, 30; 10:28; 18:9; 23:15, 33; Mr 9:43, 45, 47; Lu 12:5; Jas 3:6. The valley of Hinnom lay to the west and south of ancient Jerusalem. (Jos 15:8; 18:16; Jer 19:2, 6) Under the later kings of Judah it was used for the idolatrous worship of the pagan god Molech, to which god human sacrifices were offered by fire. (2Ch 28:3; 33:6; Jer 7:31, 32; 32:35) To prevent its use again for such religious purposes, faithful King Josiah had the valley polluted, particularly the part called Topheth.—2Ki 23:10.
The Jewish commentator David Kimḥi (1160?-1235?), in his comment on Ps 27:13, gives the following historical information concerning “Gehinnom”: “And it is a place in the land adjoining Jerusalem, and it is a loathsome place, and they throw there unclean things and carcasses. Also there was a continual fire there to burn the unclean things and the bones of the carcasses. Hence, the judgment of the wicked ones is called parabolically Gehinnom.”
The valley of Hinnom became the dumping place and incinerator for the filth of Jerusalem. Bodies of dead animals were thrown in to be consumed in the fires to which sulphur, or brimstone, was added to assist the burning. Also bodies of executed criminals, who were considered undeserving of a decent burial in a memorial tomb, were thrown in. If such dead bodies landed in the fire they were consumed, but if their carcasses landed upon a ledge of the deep ravine their putrefying flesh became infested with worms, or maggots, which did not die until they had consumed the fleshy parts, leaving only the skeletons.
And I still can't see why, if man is a living soul as the Bible says, Jesus would say what he said. If the soul is the person, and the spirit is taken away so that the soul dies and is conscience of nothing – why would we fear what God could do to a lifeless body/soul?
peace and love
mikeMikeboll64….Sorry my eyes sometimes are so good, forgive me brother, and you are right it is Gehanna. You bask why would we fear what God could do to a lifeless body/soul. He could leave it in the grave and that is it for ever for us. Yes we should Frear himmwhon could destory bus in the Grave by leaving us their. Jesus was telling us GOD the Father is in Complete control of Us, When we die there is not hope for us except in GOD the FATHER, and that Hope is that He will not Leave us in the GRAVE , because we do not exist in that state at all. This whole idea that we still exist in some form is false, when we are dead we are really dead. when Jesus was dead He was really dead gone for ever as far as he knew. That is why he said I commend My Spirit into thine Hands, He was gone Period as we are to , and unless God the FATHER makes us a Body and adds Spirit back into it , it is over for ever. “IN THE DAY THAT A MAN DIES HIS THOUGHTS PARISH, THAT IS IT. But we die in Hope as Jesus did that GOD will not leaves us in that state. ASOUL IS A BODY + SPIRIT IN IT, that is all it is. IMO
peace and love to you and yours…………………pgene
georg
thanks for your help with your added commend,
you know i have always wander since our spirit are thoughts ,brain is a container and dies with the body,and our spirit (thoughts)?go back to God and waits until judgement.
because what we are in reality is spirit(thoughts) in a human body .so angels would be defferent spirits in a different body or schell.
its a thoughtHi T,
Our thoughts are our major problem and most do not originate from our God.
His thoughts are higher than ours.We must be transformed by renewal of our mind-unto the mind of Christ
Hi All,
Hey Gene, I think I finally got it. Thanks for explaining it so well. Fear Him who can throw your soul in Gehenna basically means fear Him who after you die has the choice of bringing you back.
It's so simple, but I wouldn't have got there without you guys.
Thanks again
peace and love
mikeHi MB,
It means fear Him Who can destroy body and soul in gehenna.
All will be raised to face judgement except those who already have passed from death to life.[Jn5]That judgement shown in Mt 25 is of works as they have not been found in Christ and now can only hope for mercy according to their actions towards the brothers.
Those not found merciful towards the body of Christ will face the lake of fire, the second death.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 25 2010,09:27) At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.
Hi Nick,Please explain.
Thanks, mike
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 25 2010,09:27) That judgement shown in Mt 25 is of works as they have not been found in Christ and now can only hope for mercy according to their actions towards the brothers.
Sorry, wrong quote. Please explain what you mean.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 25 2010,09:52) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 25 2010,09:27) At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.
Hi Nick,Please explain.
Thanks, mike
Hi MB,
The more carnal men study the simple things of God according to science and logic the further they go away from truth.Seek first the kingdom of God is what Jesus said to do yet it is the last thing reasoning folk want to do.
They want to know and understand first but simple faith is what matters.
Children know enough that the safe way is to obey righteous commands.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 25 2010,09:27) That judgement shown in Mt 25 is of works as they have not been found in Christ and now can only hope for mercy according to their actions towards the brothers.
Hi Nick,Thanks for your wonderful insight on the “children” verse. I agree. But this quote is what I need explained.
Thanks,
mikeHi MB,
Read mt 25 in the light of Jn5.
John 5 says those who are of him do not come under judgement but have already passed over from death to life. They enter into the millenial kingdom as kings and judges with Jesus[Rev20].The rest of the unsaved are only raised when the 1000 years are passed.[Rev20]
Then see the parameters for possible salvation under the terms shown in Mt 25 for these folk.
There is no mention of Jesus or God or faith but only the works done by them to the brothers of Jesus. God takes these works as sufficient evidence of faith and they are found as sheep in the shepherd's flock too.
We who follow the way of Jesus, having been reborn from above, are not saved by our own works as we rely on the works of Jesus, yet these folk are. They are surprised to be given mercy but we should not be surprised but know our names are written in heaven.
To be found in this Mt25 judgement is not our hope but the last dregs that God can save from mankind are saved here. The remainder are for the second death, the lake of fire
Nick
What do you think Paul meant by this?
Act 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.
Georg
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 25 2010,13:39) We who follow the way of Jesus, having been reborn from above, are not saved by our own works as we rely on the works of Jesus, yet these folk are. They are surprised to be given mercy but we should not be surprised but know our names are written in heaven. To be found in this Mt25 judgement is not our hope but the last dregs that God can save from mankind are saved here. The remainder are for the second death, the lake of fire
Hi Nick,Maybe I'm slow, but I don't even understand your second attempt at explaining this. Can you “dumb it down”?
Plus, I thought only the 144000 would reign with Christ. I know I'm not in that number, so I'm one of the last dregs?
peace and love
mikeQuote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 26 2010,12:10) Hi Georg,
All men will indeed be resurrected.
you are such a terrific teacher.Georg
Hi MB,
The 144,000 are mentioned twice in Revelation as being from the Jews. They are not spoken of in terms of rulership.Reigning with Christ is mentioned in several places incl 2 Tim2 and Rev 20 and more detail is given in Lk 19.12f[cfMt25] and there is no mention of the number being 144,000 in this context.
The JWS have spread some nonsense about this that has confused folk
Mike
I read your response to Nick; there are more then just 144000.
Rev 7:9 ¶ After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
Rev 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.There are two groups of saints that will reign with Christ,
Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
Georg
Quote (Elizabeth @ Feb. 26 2010,12:42) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 26 2010,12:10) Hi Georg,
All men will indeed be resurrected.
you are such a terrific teacher.Georg
Hi Georg,
What does such a response achieve?
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