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Bo,
You ask if we are done here, well, is that all of your so called 'discrepancies?' I have answered all of them either by my own thoughts of through the thoughts of others more capable of answering them. If I can offer you explanations myself or through others, isn't that what matters? Do you not appreciate that I am trying to help you overcome your objections or do you just want to not be faced with real possible answers to your objections?I thought your religion believed Jesus to be a true prophet so why do you set out to not believe His prophecies. Isn't that kicking against your own religion.
Jesus is either:
our Lord
a lunatic
or
a liar.Which one do you believe He is, Bo?
It seems by your questions that you believe He is a liar. If His prophecies were not completely true, that would make Him a false prophet.Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 04 2013,08:31) Bo,
You ask if we are done here, well, is that all of your so called 'discrepancies?' I have answered all of them either by my own thoughts of through the thoughts of others more capable of answering them. If I can offer you explanations myself or through others, isn't that what matters? Do you not appreciate that I am trying to help you overcome your objections or do you just want to not be faced with real possible answers to your objections?I thought your religion believed Jesus to be a true prophet so why do you set out to not believe His prophecies. Isn't that kicking against your own religion.
Jesus is either:
our Lord
a lunatic
or
a liar.Which one do you believe He is, Bo?
It seems by your questions that you believe He is a liar. If His prophecies were not completely true, that would make Him a false prophet.
The point is if we are having a discussion just giving references to the thoughts of others is not a discussion
Giving false choices to a question doesn't validate the questionLord, Lunatic or Liar? That is a false trilemma it is an attempt to limit the options as if there could be no other option. Jesu need not be Lord, Lunatic or Liar there are several other possibilities such as theauthor was mistaken about what Jesus said, Jesus said something presumptuously thinking and believing what he said was certain…etc
Keep in mind that while Jesus said those things including his return would be within that generation he had also properly said that he did not know when he would be back because ONLY GOD KNOWS THE HOUR OF THE RETURN OF JESUS.
So so you understand that Jesus does not know what God knows?
So what is Jesus to you if there are other options. Is the Bible inerrant? Is the quaran inerrant?
Does not knowing the hour of His return but knowing EVERYTHING ELSE somehow mean that He is not God, the Son? What if love trumps knowledge in this case. If there is a choice to express knowledge or express love, perhaps it is more loving for the Father not disclose that to the Son for some reason.
Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 05 2013,03:40) So what is Jesus to you if there are other options. Is the Bible inerrant? Is the quaran inerrant? Does not knowing the hour of His return but knowing EVERYTHING ELSE somehow mean that He is not God, the Son? What if love trumps knowledge in this case. If there is a choice to express knowledge or express love, perhaps it is more loving for the Father not disclose that to the Son for some reason.
Jesus is THE CHRIST the Promised Messiah of the Jews and also now those who believe in him. He is a prophet and messenger of God and a Word from God. He is not God but He worships and taught his disciples to do the same to go directly to God in prayer daily he scriptures clearly say how his disciples believed and they knew him first hand.Acts 2:22
Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:This is their testimony they ae not calling him God in any way it is avery direct statement but you won't believe tht statement it probably bothers you to even read it, because you want it to be more than that but it's not.
Ok, Bo…you say He was a man, prophet, messenger of God and a Word from God.
Now tell me what this verse calls Him:
2 Peter 1:1
Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 06 2013,13:07) Ok, Bo…you say He was a man, prophet, messenger of God and a Word from God. Now tell me what this verse calls Him:
2 Peter 1:1
Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:
You are not reading this correctly look at the Authorized King James Version:2 Peter 1
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ: 2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
Notice this version clarifies the difference by saing “and our” in otherwords Jesus isn't God and also saviour
This can be proven by using another translation that reads as your's does:
2 Peter 1
New International Version (NIV)
1 Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ,
To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:
2 Grace and peace be yours in abundance through the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.
The second verse clarifies by saying “and of”
This in no way is calling Jesus God and you should understand that if Jesus was God it would be repeated all throughout the scriptures why would God be concealing it, doesn't he want to be Glorified and Praised, but Jesus said referring to God:
John 17:4
I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.And who did Jesus Glorify on earth:
John 17:3
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.So Jesus is declaring the Only True God and then mentions himself as the one that the ONLY TRUE GOD sent. So Jesus can not be God if there is ONLY ONE TRUE GOD and Jesus worships HIM
Bo,
They both are God…that is what Peter is saying. the AKJV is not consistent in translating 2Peter 1:1 when you compare 2Peter 1:11 that has the same word construction with the only difference being the word Lord for God in v. 11.Here are several translations of each of these two verses written by the same author in the same chapter and notice that the AKJV and the KJV are the ones that are inconsistent.
1 Peter 1:1 in Greek:
tou qeou hmwn kai swthrov Ihsou Xristou
1 Peter 1:11 in Greek:
tou kuriou hmwn kai swthrov Ihsou XristouNew International Version
v. 1 our God and Savior Jesus Christ
v. 11 our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.New Living Translation
v. 1 Jesus Christ, our God and Savior.
v. 11 our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.English Standard Version
v. 1 our God and Savior Jesus Christ:
v. 11 our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.New American Standard Bible
v. 1 our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:
v. 11 our Lord and Savior Jesus ChristKing James Bible
v. 1 of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
v. 11 our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.Holman Christian Standard Bible
v. 1 our God and Savior Jesus Christ.
v. 11 our Lord and Savior Jesus ChristInternational Standard Version
v. 1 our God and Savior, Jesus the Messiah.
v. 11 our Lord and Savior Jesus, the Messiah.NET Bible
v. 1 our God and Savior, Jesus Christ
v. 11 our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ,GOD'S WORD® Translation
v. 1 our God and Savior, Jesus Christ.
v. 11 our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.King James 2000 Bible
v. 1 of God and our Savior Jesus Christ:
v. 11 our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.American King James Version
v. 1 of God and our Savior Jesus Christ:
v. 11 our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.Douay-Rheims Bible
v. 1 our God and Saviour Jesus Christ.
v. 11 our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.Darby Bible Translation
v. 1 our God and Saviour Jesus Christ:
v. 11 our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.English Revised Version
v. 1 our God and Saviour Jesus Christ:
v. 11 our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.World English Bible
v. 1 our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:
v. 11 our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.Young's Literal Translation
v. 1 our God and Saviour Jesus Christ:
v. 11 our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.So you see, the AKJV and the KJV were inconsistent with how they translated both verses which had the same word construction in Greek. The other versions were consistent.
So, maybe it is YOU who is not reading this correctly.
Btw, Bo, is Jehovah of hosts, God?
Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 06 2013,15:43) Bo,
They both are God…that is what Peter is saying. the AKJV is not consistent in translating 2Peter 1:1 when you compare 2Peter 1:11 that has the same word construction with the only difference being the word Lord for God in v. 11.Here are several translations of each of these two verses written by the same author in the same chapter and notice that the AKJV and the KJV are the ones that are inconsistent.
1 Peter 1:1 in Greek:
tou qeou hmwn kai swthrov Ihsou Xristou
1 Peter 1:11 in Greek:
tou kuriou hmwn kai swthrov Ihsou XristouNew International Version
v. 1 our God and Savior Jesus Christ
v. 11 our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.New Living Translation
v. 1 Jesus Christ, our God and Savior.
v. 11 our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.English Standard Version
v. 1 our God and Savior Jesus Christ:
v. 11 our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.New American Standard Bible
v. 1 our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:
v. 11 our Lord and Savior Jesus ChristKing James Bible
v. 1 of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
v. 11 our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.Holman Christian Standard Bible
v. 1 our God and Savior Jesus Christ.
v. 11 our Lord and Savior Jesus ChristInternational Standard Version
v. 1 our God and Savior, Jesus the Messiah.
v. 11 our Lord and Savior Jesus, the Messiah.NET Bible
v. 1 our God and Savior, Jesus Christ
v. 11 our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ,GOD'S WORD® Translation
v. 1 our God and Savior, Jesus Christ.
v. 11 our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.King James 2000 Bible
v. 1 of God and our Savior Jesus Christ:
v. 11 our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.American King James Version
v. 1 of God and our Savior Jesus Christ:
v. 11 our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.Douay-Rheims Bible
v. 1 our God and Saviour Jesus Christ.
v. 11 our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.Darby Bible Translation
v. 1 our God and Saviour Jesus Christ:
v. 11 our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.English Revised Version
v. 1 our God and Saviour Jesus Christ:
v. 11 our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.World English Bible
v. 1 our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:
v. 11 our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.Young's Literal Translation
v. 1 our God and Saviour Jesus Christ:
v. 11 our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.So you see, the AKJV and the KJV were inconsistent with how they translated both verses which had the same word construction in Greek. The other versions were consistent.
So, maybe it is YOU who is not reading this correctly.
Btw, Bo, is Jehovah of hosts, God?
If what you are saying is true the the are giving Jesus all the glory of God and they are saying that Jesus is the ONLY TRUE GOD although Jesus said he was sent by the ONLY TRUE GOD. So I ask you, who is THE ONLY TRUE GOD that JESUS worships?The translators who call Jesus 'our God and Savior' are not only calling Jesus God but also the Father. Jehovah who is both, the God of gods and the Lord of lords does not give His glory to another. The Father and the Son are together the God of gods and the Lord of lords who does not give His glory to another.
Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 07 2013,06:52) The translators who call Jesus 'our God and Savior' are not only calling Jesus God but also the Father. Jehovah who is both, the God of gods and the Lord of lords does not give His glory to another. The Father and the Son are together the God of gods and the Lord of lords who does not give His glory to another.
Malachi 2:10
Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?“Both” cannot be ONE
1 Corinthians 8:6
but to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.The word Lord does not indicate divinity at all.
Genesis 19:1-2
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
19 And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground; 2 and he said, Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you, into your servant’s house, and tarry all night, and wash your feet, and ye shall rise up early, and go on your ways. And they said, Nay; but we will abide in the street all night.
Here lot is calling two angels “lords”
Genesis 23:10-12
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
10 And Ephron dwelt among the children of Heth: and Ephron the Hittite answered Abraham in the audience of the children of Heth, even of all that went in at the gate of his city, saying, 11 Nay, my lord, hear me: the field give I thee, and the cave that is therein, I give it thee; in the presence of the sons of my people give I it thee: bury thy dead. 12 And Abraham bowed down himself before the people of the land.
Here Abraham is being called lord
Genesis 24:17-18
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
17 And the servant ran to meet her, and said, Let me, I pray thee, drink a little water of thy pitcher. 18 And she said, Drink, my lord: and she hasted, and let down her pitcher upon her hand, and gave him drink.
Here a servant is being called lord
1 Corinthians 8:6
but to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.1 John 4:12
No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.So how do we know Jesusis not “God”? He was seen by all
Bo,
No one has seen Jehovah in His fullest form. Moses spoke with God face to face and he saw the backside of God. Stephen saw Jesus standing at the right hand of God.Also, the word God and the word Lord are both words used to identify Jehovah as well as gods and lords who are not Jehovah.
Psalms 8:6 shows two who are both called Jehovah and the NT identifies the one called Jehovah of hosts as Jesus the Christ.
First read Isaiah 8:
11For the LORD spake thus to me with a strong hand, and instructed me that I should not walk in the way of this people, saying,12Say ye not, A confederacy, to all them to whom this people shall say, A confederacy; neither fear ye their fear, nor be afraid.
13Sanctify the LORD of hosts himself; and let him be your fear, and let him be your dread.
14And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.
Peter writes this in 1 Peter 3 and refers to Jesus as the LORD of hosts of the Isaiah passage:
1 Peter 3: 14b-15a
AND DO NOT FEAR THEIR INTIMIDATION, AND DO NOT BE TROUBLED, 15but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts,Romans 9
32b…They stumbled over the stumbling stone,33just as it is written,
“BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A STONE OF STUMBLING AND A ROCK OF OFFENSE,
AND HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED.”Jesus is Jehovah of hosts whom we are to sanctify as Lord in our hearts. He is the stone laid in Zion…a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense.
Believe in Jehovah of hosts who is Jehovah our Righteousness, our God and Savior, Jesus Christ.
Peter is consistent. He refers to Jesus as our God and Savior in 2 Peter 1:1 and identifies Him as Jehovah of hosts from Psalms 8:13 in 1 Peter 3:15 where he replaces ' Jehovah of hosts' with 'Christ.'
Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 07 2013,14:54) Bo,
No one has seen Jehovah in His fullest form. Moses spoke with God face to face and he saw the backside of God. Stephen saw Jesus standing at the right hand of God.Also, the word God and the word Lord are both words used to identify Jehovah as well as gods and lords who are not Jehovah.
Psalms 8:6 shows two who are both called Jehovah and the NT identifies the one called Jehovah of hosts as Jesus the Christ.
First read Isaiah 8:
11For the LORD spake thus to me with a strong hand, and instructed me that I should not walk in the way of this people, saying,12Say ye not, A confederacy, to all them to whom this people shall say, A confederacy; neither fear ye their fear, nor be afraid.
13Sanctify the LORD of hosts himself; and let him be your fear, and let him be your dread.
14And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.
Peter writes this in 1 Peter 3 and refers to Jesus as the LORD of hosts of the Isaiah passage:
1 Peter 3: 14b-15a
AND DO NOT FEAR THEIR INTIMIDATION, AND DO NOT BE TROUBLED, 15but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts,Romans 9
32b…They stumbled over the stumbling stone,33just as it is written,
“BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A STONE OF STUMBLING AND A ROCK OF OFFENSE,
AND HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED.”Jesus is Jehovah of hosts whom we are to sanctify as Lord in our hearts. He is the stone laid in Zion…a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense.
Believe in Jehovah of hosts who is Jehovah our Righteousness, our God and Savior, Jesus Christ.
Peter is consistent. He refers to Jesus as our God and Savior in 2 Peter 1:1 and identifies Him as Jehovah of hosts from Psalms 8:13 in 1 Peter 3:15 where he replaces ' Jehovah of hosts' with 'Christ.'
I wish you well. May God have Grace and Mercy upon you and bless you with more insight.Believe me I love you, thank you for the discussion.
Ok Bo, I always want more insight from the God of gods and the Lord of lords.
I wish you well on your search for truth and I pray that what I have discussed with you will lead you closer to that truth.
It has been my pleasure to attempt to tackle your questions…I love you too and hope the best for you. If you have any more to say to me, put it here and if I don't respond, pm me to get my attention.
Is it ok with you to open this up to a discussion between me and other people that lean towards the Muslim faith?
Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 08 2013,08:07) Ok Bo, I always want more insight from the God of gods and the Lord of lords. I wish you well on your search for truth and I pray that what I have discussed with you will lead you closer to that truth.
It has been my pleasure to attempt to tackle your questions…I love you too and hope the best for you. If you have any more to say to me, put it here and if I don't respond, pm me to get my attention.
Is it ok with you to open this up to a discussion between me and other people that lean towards the Muslim faith?
No, it's not okay with me but you can do what you want to do. The reason why I say it's not okay with me is because you are not willing to discuss these things objectively.If I said it was okay with me it would be a lie because if it was okay I would still be continuing the dialogue myself but I have left the dialogue not because I don't care about you or your point of view, it's because you are ignoring obvious things and then attempting to make them mystical.
James 1:27
New International Version (NIV)
27 Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.
You ever notice it never says”God our Son” or “God the Son”?
You should read James
Perfect example of “YOU ignoring obvious things” that I show you:
Quote
You ever notice it never says”God our Son” or “God the Son”?That is a strange response from someone who has recently been shown that Jesus is called our God and Savior in 2 Peter 1:1 and in 1 Peter 3:10-15 He is shown to be the Jehovah of hosts from Isaiah 8. After that evidence, why worry that “God the Son” isn't specifically written that way…the evidence is there to support it. “God our Son” would be incorrect though because He is not our Son…He is Jehovah our Righteousness…our God and Savior, Jesus Christ…and Jehovah of hosts. He is God the Father's Son…not ours.
Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 08 2013,12:23) Perfect example of “YOU ignoring obvious things” that I show you: Quote
You ever notice it never says”God our Son” or “God the Son”?That is a strange response from someone who has recently been shown that Jesus is called our God and Savior in 2 Peter 1:1 and in 1 Peter 3:10-15 He is shown to be the Jehovah of hosts from Isaiah 8. After that evidence, why worry that “God the Son” isn't specifically written that way…the evidence is there to support it. “God our Son” would be incorrect though because He is not our Son…He is Jehovah our Righteousness…our God and Savior, Jesus Christ…and Jehovah of hosts. He is God the Father's Son…not ours.
You read into verses things that are not there, the reason is you expect it to say what you want. The problem is if what you were saying was true in anyway it would be constantly and clearly repeated and not only it isn't constantly and clearly repeated it doesn't even say it at all 2 Peter 1:12 Peter 1:1
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
How do you not read that clearly?
John 8:42
Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not “Trinity”: desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah: Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.
( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #171)
Bo,
You say things like this even though I have shown you how what you believe 2 Peter 1:1 should be translated is NOT the way it should be translated and proved that to you by showing you the inconsistency of how 2 Peter 1:11 was translated. They are BOTH the same word construction. Yet you completely ignore the evidence. You ignore the evidence that 'Lord' is indeed a word that is used for Jehovah. Jesus is called Lord all over the NT, even called 'Lord of ALL.' Jehovah is called 'Lord' all over the OT. You think that in Jesus' case 'Lord' refers to a human master only and give no room to the possibility it is used as in Lord Jehovah. The reason you do not see a clear teaching that Jesus is God is because you dismiss all the times He is referred to as a theos or the theos and when He is being referred to as the Jehovah of the OT in OT quoted passages about Jehovah and applied to Jesus. The reason you do not think it is clear is because you have obviously not been given the faith to believe yet probably due to a hardened and deceived heart. If you soften your heart and ask Jesus to reveal Himself to you as One who is the God and Savior of the Christian Church and if He could be YOUR God and Savior too, He will answer you if you ask with an open heart to receive His answer.You cannot continue to deny who He is. If satan wanted to start a religion to deny that God has an only begotten Son who existed before creation and came as a man hundreds of years after creation and that the Son did not shed His own blood in order to defeat the power of satan over death, then satan would have come up with a religion that would look just like the Muslim faith. In your religion there is no God who had an only begotten Son that became man and died for our sins so that sinners could repent and gain eternal life. The Bible clearly says that He died for our sins and was resurrected and because of that, if we believe and serve Him as Lord, we will have eternal life with Him and the Father. You want something that is said about Jesus clearly and many times, well, it clearly says that He died and was resurrected many times but you still don't believe that. So, what does it matter. You will only see what you want to see NO MATTER HOW CLEAR AND HOW FREQUENTLY SOMETHING IS SAID OF JESUS.
Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 08 2013,13:47) Bo,
You say things like this even though I have shown you how what you believe 2 Peter 1:1 should be translated is NOT the way it should be translated and proved that to you by showing you the inconsistency of how 2 Peter 1:11 was translated. They are BOTH the same word construction. Yet you completely ignore the evidence. You ignore the evidence that 'Lord' is indeed a word that is used for Jehovah. Jesus is called Lord all over the NT, even called 'Lord of ALL.' Jehovah is called 'Lord' all over the OT. You think that in Jesus' case 'Lord' refers to a human master only and give no room to the possibility it is used as in Lord Jehovah. The reason you do not see a clear teaching that Jesus is God is because you dismiss all the times He is referred to as a theos or the theos and when He is being referred to as the Jehovah of the OT in OT quoted passages about Jehovah and applied to Jesus. The reason you do not think it is clear is because you have obviously not been given the faith to believe yet probably due to a hardened and deceived heart. If you soften your heart and ask Jesus to reveal Himself to you as One who is the God and Savior of the Christian Church and if He could be YOUR God and Savior too, He will answer you if you ask with an open heart to receive His answer.You cannot continue to deny who He is. If satan wanted to start a religion to deny that God has an only begotten Son who existed before creation and came as a man hundreds of years after creation and that the Son did not shed His own blood in order to defeat the power of satan over death, then satan would have come up with a religion that would look just like the Muslim faith. In your religion there is no God who had an only begotten Son that became man and died for our sins so that sinners could repent and gain eternal life. The Bible clearly says that He died for our sins and was resurrected and because of that, if we believe and serve Him as Lord, we will have eternal life with Him and the Father. You want something that is said about Jesus clearly and many times, well, it clearly says that He died and was resurrected many times but you still don't believe that. So, what does it matter. You will only see what you want to see NO MATTER HOW CLEAR AND HOW FREQUENTLY SOMETHING IS SAID OF JESUS.
I guess you don't understand that I was a “Christian” for over 35 years I was baptized and anointed with holy anointing oil from Jerusalem as my mother who is a Christian Minister visited Jerusalem/Israel I havealways been very religious since birth in-fat I used to tell my mother about God before she decided to be an active Christian.God has blessed me so much and guided me from birth and I was surprised he guided me to Islam 9 years ago, but before he led me to Islam he confirmed my suspicions in the Bible.
So I was shown in the Bible how Jesus was not crucfied and then when I read the Quran it was CONFIRMED. I can tell you about the SCAPEGOAT but you are too deeply invested in being right (I could be wrong about you)rather than pleasing God Almighty.
The fact is Jesus did not get killed or crucified and the scriptures record how Pilate declared he would let Jesus go free and wash his hands of the matter, the Bible goes on to say that in the latte days the mystery of God should be finished. tell me besides Jesus not really being killed or crucified what coul that mystery be?
Revelation 10:6-11
New International Version (NIV)
6 And he swore by him who lives for ever and ever, who created the heavens and all that is in them, the earth and all that is in it, and the sea and all that is in it, and said, “There will be no more delay! 7 But in the days when the seventh angel is about to sound his trumpet, the mystery of God will be accomplished, just as he announced to his servants the prophets.”
8 Then the voice that I had heard from heaven spoke to me once more: “Go, take the scroll that lies open in the hand of the angel who is standing on the sea and on the land.”
9 So I went to the angel and asked him to give me the little scroll. He said to me, “Take it and eat it. It will turn your stomach sour, but ‘in your mouth it will be as sweet as honey.’[a]” 10 I took the little scroll from the angel’s hand and ate it. It tasted as sweet as honey in my mouth, but when I had eaten it, my stomach turned sour. 11 Then I was told, “You must prophesy again about many peoples, nations, languages and kings.”
I have faith that you want to know the reality of what I am saying here, this is not something I am searching for I am not searching for “The Truth” this is the truth and I am sharing it with you because of you and your will to find what you want to know.
Sorry Bo, I have no desire for what you call the truth and to be oppressed by the same spirits that are having their way with you. You think you have found the truth but you are the one asking most all the questions which I have taken time to try to answer. I can only pray for you now. Take care my friend and thank you for your time.
Perhaps you should consult an expert in Christianity and Judaism to help explain the correct role of the scapegoat and how that does not apply the way you think. Try Dr. Michael Brown. http://realmessiah.com/
Leciticus 17:11
'For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you on the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood by reason of the life that makes atonement.'Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 09 2013,14:31) Sorry Bo, I have no desire for what you call the truth and to be oppressed by the same spirits that are having their way with you. You think you have found the truth but you are the one asking most all the questions which I have taken time to try to answer. I can only pray for you now. Take care my friend and thank you for your time. Perhaps you should consult an expert in Christianity and Judaism to help explain the correct role of the scapegoat and how that does not apply the way you think. Try Dr. Michael Brown. http://realmessiah.com/
Leciticus 17:11
'For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you on the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood by reason of the life that makes atonement.'
New International Version (NIV)10 “‘I will set my face against any Israelite or any foreigner residing among them who eats blood, and I will cut them off from the people. 11 For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one’s life.
You see how you grab content out of context we are not talking about eating blood so look:
Leviticus 16:7-9
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
7 And he shall take the two goats, and present them before the Lord at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. 8 And Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats; one lot for the Lord, and the other lot for the scapegoat. 9 And Aaron shall bring the goat upon which the Lord’s lot fell, and offer him for a sin offering.
Leviticus 16:10-11
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
10 But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the Lord, to make an atonement with him, and to let him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness. 11 And Aaron shall bring the bullock of the sin offering, which is for himself, and shall make an atonement for himself, and for his house, and shall kill the bullock of the sin offering which is for himself:
Now the question is who takes the sin of the people:
Leviticus 16:20-22
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
20 And when he hath made an end of reconciling the holy place, and the tabernacle of the congregation, and the altar, he shall bring the live goat: 21 and Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness: 22 and the goat shall bear upon him all their iniquities unto a land not inhabited: and he shall let go the goat in the wilderness.
The goat that takes away the sins would symbolize Jesus an after Jesus was baptized wasn't he sent into the wilderness?
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