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Bo,
I already discussed that with you. In one genealogy you have the father of Joseph and the other genealogy you have the father-in-law of Joseph. Luke 3 is the line of Mary and Mat 1 is the line of Joseph. I showed you how the son-in-law who was from the same tribe became the heir when there were no sons…Mary had no brothers apparently. If you look at the genealogy, it is all about fathers and sons. Not all men have sons but those that don't have sons, have son-in-laws.Mary and Joseph were both from David of the tribe of Judah. Mary came from David's son Nathan and Joseph came from David's son Solomon from what I understand through these genealogies. I don't know if I can find where we already discussed this but we did.
Here Bo, I found where we discussed this (fourth post from the top):
Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 21 2013,15:06) Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 20 2013,22:08) Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 19 2013,14:31) Bo, I saw where you wrote that truth never defies logic. I believe you are mistaken here. example: Jesus is the root of Jesse and the offspring of David. He is the Root AND the Shoot!
How is Jesus the literal offspring of David? Is David “God” too? if not why was Jesus caled son of David?
He was called the Son of David because He is one of David's descendents through Mary and Joseph, according to the flesh. Jesus was the promised one that was promised to David to sit on his throne as a descendent of David and one that would not undergo decay.2 Samuel 7:16And your house and your kingdom shall be made sure forever before me. Your throne shall be established forever.’” 17In accordance with all these words, and in accordance with all this vision, Nathan spoke to David.
“and one that would not undergo decay.”You cannot die and not undego decay
Quote (bodhitharta @ July 09 2013,21:56) Jesus did not die as Jonah did not die
Bo,
The Bible doesn't say that Jesus died as Jonah died. It says that they were both in the center of the earth (buried-one by water and another in a cave-tomb) for three days and three nights.Also, you say that you can not 'not decay' after being dead for three days. Really?
Apparently, a person can be dead for FOUR days and not undergo decay when resurrected:
John 11:38 Then Jesus, deeply moved again, came to the tomb. It was a cave, and a stone lay against it. 39Jesus said, “Take away the stone.” Martha, the sister of the dead man, said to him, “Lord, by this time there will be an odor, for he has been dead four days.” 40Jesus said to her, “Did I not tell you that if you believed you would see the glory of God?” 41So they took away the stone. And Jesus lifted up his eyes and said, “Father, I thank you that you have heard me. 42I knew that you always hear me, but I said this on account of the people standing around, that they may believe that you sent me.” 43When he had said these things, he cried out with a loud voice, “Lazarus, come out.” 44The man who had died came out, his hands and feet bound with linen strips, and his face wrapped with a cloth. Jesus said to them, “Unbind him, and let him go.”
Bo, I have been showing you clear answers or possible scenarios to your questions and you have not acknowledged that I have. I thought you were going to acknowledge that!? I saw where you asked Ed the same question about the genealogies and you were answered but go on like you haven't been answered. Why is that?
Quote (Lightenup @ July 11 2013,06:43) Bo, I have been showing you clear answers or possible scenarios to your questions and you have not acknowledged that I have. I thought you were going to acknowledge that!? I saw where you asked Ed the same question about the genealogies and you were answered but go on like you haven't been answered. Why is that?
First of all I did not indicate that Jesus needed to be swallowed by a whale, wht I said is the condition of Jonah would to be “as Jonah” The time of 3 days and 3 nights cannot work so it cannot be about time if him “rising on the third day” is right.Your scenarios kept over looking the facts and you kept ignoring them, If you don't believe me I can show you exactly how you ignore the facts. Shall I show you?
Regarding the geneaologies I was explaining to ED tht when he says the Quran is wrong using the term “Oh' Sister of Aaron” on Mary when they were shocked to see baby Jesus is an expression he said no Muhammad thought Mary was Miriam the actual sister of Aaron and that meant the Quran was in error. I shoed him similar expressions like Elizabeth being called Daughter of Aaron an others like son of David…etc
He decided to Judge the cases according to his own scale instead of Judging th wa the Bible say to Judge. That is between him and God but for a certainty I proved there was no error there and he refused to ackowledge it.
Ed said there were no words in Hebrew to say grandfather or grand mother
Saba, Savta
The Hebrew words for grandfather and grandmother.Ed has been caught in a lie unlesshe really didn't know
Quote First of all I did not indicate that Jesus needed to be swallowed by a whale
I never said you did indicate this.Quote wht I said is the condition of Jonah would to be “as Jonah” The time of 3 days and 3 nights cannot work so it cannot be about time if him “rising on the third day” is right. I felt that I clearly showed you how this could be very possible. Please show me how I ignored the facts in your opinion. Thanks.
Quote (Lightenup @ July 02 2013,21:32) Bo,
I don't understand the problem!!
Thursday day-day one
Friday day-day two
Saturday day-day three
Rose before daylight on day four (before dawn on Sunday)
=three daysThursday night-night one
Friday night-night two
Saturday night-night three
=three nightsHe rose just before dawn probably on Sunday.
It was on the third day (during the third 24 hour period after His death) that He rose from what I can tell.
Once again:
3pm Thursday-3pm Friday (first 24 hour period/one day)
3pm Friday-3pm Saturday (second 24 hour period/second day)
3 pm Saturday to just before dawn Sunday (third 24 hour period/third day)=On the third day He rose.
Why are you having such a struggle with this?
Here Bo, I bumped this for you so you can show me what is wrong with this. It seems clear and logical to me and I don't know why you are having a problem with it. Please show me. Thanks!
Quote (Lightenup @ July 12 2013,07:43) Quote (Lightenup @ July 02 2013,21:32) Bo,
I don't understand the problem!!
Thursday day-day one
Friday day-day two
Saturday day-day three
Rose before daylight on day four (before dawn on Sunday)
=three daysThursday night-night one
Friday night-night two
Saturday night-night three
=three nightsHe rose just before dawn probably on Sunday.
It was on the third day (during the third 24 hour period after His death) that He rose from what I can tell.
Once again:
3pm Thursday-3pm Friday (first 24 hour period/one day)
3pm Friday-3pm Saturday (second 24 hour period/second day)
3 pm Saturday to just before dawn Sunday (third 24 hour period/third day)=On the third day He rose.
Why are you having such a struggle with this?
Here Bo, I bumped this for you so you can show me what is wrong with this. It seems clear and logical to me and I don't know why you are having a problem with it. Please show me. Thanks!
You cannot sa 3 to 3 one day 3 to 3 two days and 3 to sometime before 3It has to be 3 days AND 3 nights which would mean hewoul riseon th 4th day if it was about time.
Jonah 2
New International Version (NIV)
2 1 From inside the fish Jonah prayed to the Lord his God. 2 He said:
“In my distress I called to the Lord,
and he answered me.
From deep in the realm of the dead I called for help,
and you listened to my cry.
3 You hurled me into the depths,
into the very heart of the seas,
and the currents swirled about me;
all your waves and breakers
swept over me.
4 I said, ‘I have been banished
from your sight;
yet I will look again
toward your holy temple.’
5 The engulfing waters threatened me,
the deep surrounded me;
seaweed was wrapped around my head.
6 To the roots of the mountains I sank down;
the earth beneath barred me in forever.
But you, Lord my God,
brought my life up from the pit.7 “When my life was ebbing away,
I remembered you, Lord,
and my prayer rose to you,
to your holy temple.8 “Those who cling to worthless idols
turn away from God’s love for them.
9 But I, with shouts of grateful praise,
will sacrifice to you.
What I have vowed I will make good.
I will say, ‘Salvation comes from the Lord.’”Jonah was SAVED in his darkest hour and so was Jesus
The point is you can't say h rose on the sam day your counting as he didn't rise
Bo, I have shown you that a part of the day or night was counted as a day or as a night.
Quote The point is you can't say h rose on the sam day your counting as he didn't rise What? There are no discrepancies if you consider two different meanings of the word 'day.' 1. daylight (12 hours long or a part of it) 2. twenty-four hours or a part of it.
He had spent a part of a daylight day in the tomb on Thursday, then a full night Thursday night, a full daylight day in the tomb on Friday, then a full night Friday night, and another full daylight day in the tomb on Saturday then when Saturday night was just about to become daylight on Sunday, He rose.
That is two full daylight days and part of a third plus two full night times and part of a third, therefore since 'parts of' are considered 'one' then that would be three days and three nights. If He died at 3 pm on Thursday and rose just before 6am on Sunday, then that is about 24 hours+ 24 hours + 15 hours. That makes Him rising on the third 24 hour period…the third 24 hour day.
Quote (Lightenup @ July 12 2013,13:41) Bo, I have shown you that a part of the day or night was counted as a day or as a night. Quote The point is you can't say h rose on the sam day your counting as he didn't rise What? There are no discrepancies if you consider two different meanings of the word 'day.' 1. daylight (12 hours long or a part of it) 2. twenty-four hours or a part of it.
He had spent a part of a daylight day in the tomb on Thursday, then a full night Thursday night, a full daylight day in the tomb on Friday, then a full night Friday night, and another full daylight day in the tomb on Saturday then when Saturday night was just about to become daylight on Sunday, He rose.
That is two full daylight days and part of a third plus two full night times and part of a third, therefore since 'parts of' are considered 'one' then that would be three days and three nights. If He died at 3 pm on Thursday and rose just before 6am on Sunday, then that is about 24 hours+ 24 hours + 15 hours. That makes Him rising on the third 24 hour period…the third 24 hour day.
You seem to start counting from his death but the clock would start at him being in the tomb, it doesn't matter anyway because you will play with th definitions and do whatever needs to be done to be right.Here is the verse I said that will show you about how you work:
Matthew 24:30-34
King James Version (KJV)
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Did that generation pass without those things being fulfilled?
Bo,
Sorry that it has been a while since I have responded…life happens, out-of-town guest come, etc.you said:
Quote You seem to start counting from his death but the clock would start at him being in the tomb
The 'clock' that would start at Him being in the tomb began during daylight, hence counts as one day and the actual death begins at 3 pm and starts the first period of a 24 hour day. These things aren't hard to understand.Quote it doesn't matter anyway because you will play with th definitions and do whatever needs to be done to be right. Can you show me that there is only one definition of 'day' that is used in the Bible? If not, then your point is moot. My intention with pointing out possible scenarios with you is because you seem to think it is impossible for Jesus to be buried for three days and three nights and also to have risen on the third day. You are the one that asked me how that could work and I showed you.
I will address the rest of your post but right now, I have to go skype with my son in S. Korea.
Quote (Lightenup @ July 21 2013,02:03) Bo,
Sorry that it has been a while since I have responded…life happens, out-of-town guest come, etc.you said:
Quote You seem to start counting from his death but the clock would start at him being in the tomb
The 'clock' that would start at Him being in the tomb began during daylight, hence counts as one day and the actual death begins at 3 pm and starts the first period of a 24 hour day. These things aren't hard to understand.Quote it doesn't matter anyway because you will play with th definitions and do whatever needs to be done to be right. Can you show me that there is only one definition of 'day' that is used in the Bible? If not, then your point is moot. My intention with pointing out possible scenarios with you is because you seem to think it is impossible for Jesus to be buried for three days and three nights and also to have risen on the third day. You are the one that asked me how that could work and I showed you.
I will address the rest of your post but right now, I have to go skype with my son in S. Korea.
I'll wait for you to address the last part of the post. Enjoy your visit with your sonBo,
you asked:Quote
Matthew 24:30-34King James Version (KJV)
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Did that generation pass without those things being fulfilled?
These things refer to the destruction of Jerusalem during that generation's time. So, that generation did not pass till all those things were fulfilled.
See this for a fuller explanation:
http://lavistachurchofchrist.org/LVarticles/UnderstandingMatthew24.htmQuote (Lightenup @ July 22 2013,16:58) Bo,
you asked:Quote
Matthew 24:30-34King James Version (KJV)
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Did that generation pass without those things being fulfilled?
These things refer to the destruction of Jerusalem during that generation's time. So, that generation did not pass till all those things were fulfilled.
See this for a fuller explanation:
http://lavistachurchofchrist.org/LVarticles/UnderstandingMatthew24.htm
So you are saying they saw Jesus coming in the clouds with Power and Glory an the angel gathered his elect from the wind? That has already happened?Bo, I know that they saw Jesus on earth after He ascended to heaven to receive all authority in heaven and on earth. He tells Mary at the tomb not to touch Him because He has not yet ascended to the Father and then tells her to tell His disciples that He is going to the Father. Later, He meets them and tells them that all authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Him. So there He stood with power and glory. The elects that the angels gathered from the wind could mean the martyrs that were killed for their faith in Christ. I don't know exactly what Jesus meant but I believe that His words are true and that the generation at that time experienced those events, like He said.
Quote (Lightenup @ July 24 2013,05:10) Bo, I know that they saw Jesus on earth after He ascended to heaven to receive all authority in heaven and on earth. He tells Mary at the tomb not to touch Him because He has not yet ascended to the Father and then tells her to tell His disciples that He is going to the Father. Later, He meets them and tells them that all authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Him. So there He stood with power and glory. The elects that the angels gathered from the wind could mean the martyrs that were killed for their faith in Christ. I don't know exactly what Jesus meant but I believe that His words are true and that the generation at that time experienced those events, like He said.
Are you saying they saw him coming in the clouds at that time?Also how could the Martyrs could have been gathered at that time for their faith in Christ when there were NO Martyrs of Christ when he met up with his disciples?
One more thing if you back up a little more it says:
Mark 13:24-31
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, 25 and the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
This already happened too? Please be honest…is it as I said that you cannot or will not be honest? Is it your opinion that these things have already taken place?
Seriously did these things happen too?
Matthew 24:21-35
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
21 for then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened.
Just be honest it's the only way we can move forward
Bo,
I haven't put the time and energy into this passage. I believe Jesus' words to be true and read them as such. I found this article that explains your quetions. If you are truly seeking to reconcile this passage then I encourage you to ask people who have studied it to a great degree of consideration. See here for example:Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 04 2013,05:35) Bo,
I haven't put the time and energy into this passage. I believe Jesus' words to be true and read them as such. I found this article that explains your quetions. If you are truly seeking to reconcile this passage then I encourage you to ask people who have studied it to a great degree of consideration. See here for example:
Are our discussons over here? Your responses are starting to be referrals of other literature and you are not participating, even if I responded to the referral what would be the point wouldn't it make sense fo you to read your reference material agree with it then present it to me?
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