- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 19 2009,17:11) Hi WJ,
That is why He sent His son so that whosoever believes in him will not remain under His wrath.
Are these lies to you who would make the Son his own God?
NHThe Lie is that the son is not God! Titus 2:13
Hi WJ,
Do you have a personal relationship with your god?
WE do with the Father and also with the Son of God.Wj…….Let's get back to the subject here (LAW), it is my opinion that the word Law, is a key word in understanding Paul's meanings He used the scriptures. To Me (LAW) implies (forced of some kind) Not a voluntary option. For instance the LAW of SIN and DEATH , means the force that (causes) sin and of course death with it.. There is also a Law of Love and Life, meaning there is a force that causes it.
When GOD writes His Laws in our hearts He is in effect forcing righteousness in us, through the operation of installing them in us. We keep them naturally because our nature has been changes by GOD , so in affect he is forcing our behavior, which keeps His commandments. I do not view this as bad in fact it is the Only way we could ever be perfected, God has to effect that change in Us. When Paul said No man is Justified before GOD by obedience to (LAW) . His inferences is (justified) or made acceptably right to GOD, by the way LAW works (forced compliance) You see no external LAW could ever Change our Hearts and Minds, GOD Has to recreate us to truly keep His commandments our very natures have to be reforged by HIM.
WE also read of the Law of the Spirit of Christ, that is the (force) that was in Christ Jesus, and that (FORCE) or LAW ,can be in us also. I believe more and more true righteousness is a totally separate creation, that GOD performs and installs it into us. Many think they are the authors of their righteousness by their so-called (FREE Choices) when in fact nothing could be further from the truth. Another words we are not saved by our choices , but by the (Law or force) that guides our choices. It is truly a CREATION of GOD the FATHER HIMSELF. IMO
Peace and love…………….gene
Gene,
You were going fine and then you went to far over the edge on that one. It does not follow that because God “forcefully” writes his laws into the hearts of believers that they do not have a free choice. Scripture tells us that we choose whether to follow Jesus or not. That choice is not based on random chance as some seem to claim. On the other hand we are not puppets as you seem to claim.
Kerwin……..Their Choices are (INFLUENCED) one, they are not (FREE) in the scene of no influences. We do not chose to do right we are created to do right. Remember “for you are created unto good works”. Also remember it is FRUITS of (from) the SPIRIT. Men are created right not self made right. It is a Gift of GOD by his GRACE (influencing of the hearts). IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………….gene
Quote (Gene @ Oct. 20 2009,17:31) Kerwin……..Their Choices are (INFLUENCED) one, they are not (FREE) in the scene of no influences. We do not chose to do right we are created to do right. Remember “for you are created unto good works”. Also remember it is FRUITS of (from) the SPIRIT. Men are created right not self made right. It is a Gift of GOD by his GRACE (influencing of the hearts). IMO peace and love to you and yours………………….gene
I like that answerG,
We choose.
Grace forces nobody to do anything.
The saved are created unto good works but of course not all are saved or will be.Nick………I was not addressing those who are not called at this time, only those GOD is working with Now. Grace is (GOD'S influencing on the Heart) it is not just (opportunity) to Choose something. Grace is GOD'S creating process to (CAUSE) Change in our hearts and minds. Nick you must understand we are (recreated unto good works). This is not the nature we are born with , it is a (NEW) Nature given to us by GOD and this new Nature is a Change of our hearts and minds, (causing) a change in our behaviors, this process is the way GOD writes His law (force) on our hearts and minds. Nick we are (CREATED) unto Righteousness by this taking place in our lives, and this change produces it Fruits, better Known as the FRUIT of the SPIRIT.
The more a person is self reliant the more he would have a problem with this idea, most want there righteousness to come from there own self, a self righteousness , Pride is a source of much of this. But truth is there is no righteousness that does not already exist. Just like there is no good or evil that does not already exist, there is (NOTHING) new under the sun. We simply are conformed to what is GOOD or Evil. When GOD begins to change us he does it through our minds changing our thinking and conforming it to His by His Spirit (intellect) “let this mind be (IN) you that was in Christ Jesus our Lord”.
That mind was the mind of GOD Now that mind is LIFE and SPIRIT, it is GOD in US. When Jesus said the FATHER was in HIM He really met it , GOD was (LITERALLY) IN HIM> That mind can not die it is eternal and can not die. “If this mind is in you that was in Christ Jesus the Lord (IT) will also quicken (bring to life) your mortal bodies”. If we have GOD Spirit in us we Have eternal life in US. WE have Passed from death to life by virtue of (THAT) mind, not our so-called (FREE) or self choices> Our choices will conform to that mind, because it says greater is He the is in you then he that is in the earth. God's influence is greater then all influences.
WE simply must come to see we (ARE CREATED UNTO GOOD WORKS). There is only one creator that i know of, and that is GOD the FATHER Alone. Now with that understanding , where is boasting seeing salvation is accomplished outside of ourselves. By way of a Creation of GOD. God get all the GLORY and why shouldn't He He did it. WE like Jesus can say we of ourselves can do nothing it is GOD who does the WORK. IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………………..gene
G,
God has not given His Spirit to all men but only His people.
When men are born again they daily have the chance to die to themselves and let the Spirit teach and lead them.Daily choices.
NICK……So to you being born again is not really what is delivering you but your (own) Chance choices are, right. GOD plays little or no part except present choices that you somehow figure out what you want to do, your changed Heart does not come into play them right, Just your own “”FREE” uninfluenced Choices. Then YOU CERTAINLY have some what to Boast about Nick, YOU SAVED YOURSELF. congratulation on YOUR SELF ACHIEVEMENTS.
Nick……I notice you say they have (chances) and die to themselves and (LET) the Spirit teach them and lead them. It would appear you are in complete control of your salvation, tell me what part does GOD perform if any, as far as Chances go WE already Have the commandments , “I have laid before you Life and death Choose you this day”. but interesting no one seem able to properly choose them, But suddenly GOD announces them again to you and you just make the right choices on our own so He really doesn't (CAUSE) righteousness to come into you, you (choose it) yourself. right? YOU are your own savior Nick, congratulations to you and your marvelous Job of saving yourself. But the rest of US 'ARE (CREATED) unto GOOD WORKS. I prefer it GOD'S way of CREATING ME RIGHT, by changing my mind and Heart and in the process writing His Laws in me. Not your way Nick of self choices where GOD'S Grace only serves as a Chance Machine . IMO
peace and love………………gene
Quote (Gene @ Oct. 21 2009,07:31) Kerwin……..Their Choices are (INFLUENCED) one, they are not (FREE) in the scene of no influences. We do not chose to do right we are created to do right. Remember “for you are created unto good works”. Also remember it is FRUITS of (from) the SPIRIT. Men are created right not self made right. It is a Gift of GOD by his GRACE (influencing of the hearts). IMO peace and love to you and yours………………….gene
I have nothing against stating God influences the choices that mankind makes but the tenet of predestination accuses God of doing evil.I think humanity is more like robots that God programed to act in a certain way and then made them autonomous. Then he and our accuser stove to influence the action of those robots. The accuser became unhappy with this and mucked with machinery. God then answered that by proposing a time when a correction to the corrupted machinery would take effect. The accuser then through a fit and complained he did not have his own robots so God made some robots that were programed to serve the accuser.
Those robots are self aware and the programming is their real self so destroy the programming is to destroy the individuality of the robot. In other words you cannot reprogram a robot without destroying it though you can fix the machinery.
This example is roughly based on the parable of the wheat and the weeds.
And thou shalt teach them ordinances and laws, and shalt shew them the way wherein they must walk, and the work that they must do.
Ye shall do my judgments, and keep mine ordinances, to walk therein: I [am] the LORD your God.
Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set the dominion thereof in the earth?
They continue this day according to thine ordinances: for all [are] thy servants.
Yet they seek me daily, and delight to know my ways, as a nation that did righteousness, and forsook not the ordinance of their God: they ask of me the ordinances of justice; they take delight in approaching to God.
That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.
Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered [them] to you.
Then verily the first [covenant] had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
Nick……..What does scripture say “God looked for (ONE) righteous person but could find (NONE) not NOT EVEN ONE, wherefore He took it on His own arm to bring salvation”. Interesting seems NO ONE could make the right choices. They blew the “CHANCES” RIGHT?
gene
Quote (Gene @ Nov. 03 2009,11:01) Nick……..What does scripture say “God looked for (ONE) righteous person but could find (NONE) not NOT EVEN ONE, wherefore He took it on His own arm to bring salvation”. Interesting seems NO ONE could make the right choices. They blew the “CHANCES” RIGHT? gene
It is my understanding that the general spirit of man was corrupted by the sins of Adam and Eve. God then created Jesus whose spirit was unblemished by that sin.
Jesus did make the right choices.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 03 2009,12:25) Hi KW,
There is no such thing as a GENERAL SPIRIT of man in scripture is there?
I am not sure that you are correct in that as this passage surely seems to be speaking of mankind in general instead of specifically.Ecclesiastes 7:29(KJV) reads:
Quote Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions.
It is my understanding that each of us inherit the spirit of man from our parents but that Jesus did not do so as he was a new creation.
Hi KW,
Man is MEN.
They do not share a spirit.
They are not one in spirit but divided in every way possible.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
