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Nick said:
Quote Hi tim4,
So the God of the bible is not nice enough to be your God?
God owes nobody anything.Nick,
Do you think you could try to speak in a non condensending manner? You put questions to people in a way as to belittle them. You're not interested in relating to people.I haven't been here that long and your way is already getting old.
thinker
Hi Tim,
Quote You put all of your faith in a book that was written by superstitious tribesmen, and voted on by a bunch of men that were ordered to come up with the book under penalty of their kings whim.. And…
Quote Most of the Christian religion is not about God, it is about the bible. Many do not love God as much as they love the bible. Seems to make the most sense than anything I have read so far. I wonder what God will tell us when we meet him? Maybe he will say, “Kids, come on, did you really think that every word written about me was the truth? Did you not know me? Did you not listen to that small voice that told you something was wrong with what you were reading? How could you…..”. Maybe it would go down like this, maybe not. But it certainly makes sense, considering.
Thanks, Tim.
MandyQuote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 27 2009,07:23) Hi TT,
Men need hard questions.
Tickling ears is unhelpful.
But when you are asked hard questions you don't answer. You just reply with a question. You don't interact with people on this board. You judge them.thinker
Nick……….your assumption GOD speaks through the Bible is in error, GOD Speak through the Spirit , He that has ears to hear let him hear what the SPIRIT Says to the Churches. GOD Speaks through the Spirit, You can quoted the Bible from one end to the other and not understand one word of It. What you are saying is exactly why we have thousands of different Churches and interpretations around confusing people. Anyone can parrot scripture , doesn't mean they understand it right, That why we are here to discuss these things, not to be insulted by you or anyone else, you are not the guarding of truth, simply because you don't have the truth, as well as you think you do. “for we see in part” meaning we don't have it all, Sometimes it pays to listen brother and be a little more Kind. I am not saying to not have Salt in yourself, but you can have salt and still have peace also. IMO
love and peace to you and yours………………..gene
G,
Big call.
But it explains why you do not honour it as you should.2Peter1
19We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:20Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
Nick………..So whats that got to do with what i posted, You either agree with what i posted or not, why add insults in, is it in you nature to do that or what? I can give you quoted Prophecies and you have (NO IDEA) what they mean, even the one Prophesying them didn't Know as in the case of Daniel. So don't give us you bull. If you so good at understand what said then explain the whole book of Revelations to us , I will personally pin a Star on you if you can do it with out speculating. There are many thing written in scripture you have (NO) idea what they truly mean. You can't even tell the difference between what is Literal and what is Symbolic, much the rest. Parroting Scripture doesn't cut it brother. IMO
peace and love……………………….gene
Quote (dirtyknections @ Feb. 27 2009,04:39) Quote (TimothyVI @ Feb. 26 2009,23:34) Well there you have it. Now I must be a heathen according to Nick, and all I, and all humanity, justly deserves is death according to kerwin, all because we are exactly as God made us. Kerwin, you are correct about one thing. I don’t understand the justice of God.
David screws up and God kills his son. David screws up again and God kills a bunch of his people. That will teach David, a man after God’s own heart.I think that it is the blind, unquestioned acceptance of the bible cruelty that contributes to enabling evil to go into the world.
What most Christians do not understand is that any God capable of creating the mind boggling expanse and complexity of earth, let alone of the universe, could not give a fig leaf about whether one tiny part of His creation rested on Saturday or Sunday, or roasted pigeons on Monday for Him. You put all of your faith in a book that was written by superstitious tribesmen, and voted on by a bunch of men that were ordered to come up with the book under penalty of their kings whim..
So it does not matter if I believe in God, the same God that you believe in. I am a heathen if I do not believe some of the lies told about Him in the bible.
Most of the Christian religion is not about God, it is about the bible. Many do not love God as much as they love the bible.
Tim
TRUTH
AGREED!TimothyVI wrote:
Quote Well there you have it. Now I must be a heathen according to Nick, and all I, and all humanity, justly deserves is death according to kerwin, all because we are exactly as God made us.
I do not know what Nick means nor can I really state you are an unbeliever, as far as a strict definition is concerned, because what you are doing is judging and condemning God because he does not enable evil behavior like you do and have been taught to do. I am not sure if you know what the term “enabler” means so here is one definition.
Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary. 2009 reads:
Quote one that enables another to achieve an end ; especially : one who enables another to persist in self-destructive behavior (as substance abuse) by providing excuses or by making it possible to avoid the consequences of such behavior
The sad thing is that the world has taught us wrong and we have to reject many of the traditions we have been taught as too often they are of the Devil’s making. I certainly emphasize with your struggles against temptation as I myself struggle with enabling and have fallen to that snare way too often but it is not good to do so and does no one any favors.
First you are incorrect since God did not create us as slaves to sin. We are slaves to sin because Adam and Eve chose to sin without considering the effect that sin had on their descendents. Still I do not judge them, or David who also did not consider the effect of his sins on his son and his people as I myself have done just what they did and also had the result of my sins effect others. God certainly has the power to stop that result but he chooses not to hoping that I will out of compassion for others change my ways. In this way God resists my evil behavior with hopes I will change. I ask you did Jesus die for his own sins or did he die as a result of the sins of others. I assure you that if you choose to do sin(do evil) others suffer for your actions and if you truly feel compassion then for that reason alone you like David will seek to stop sinning.
Hi Seeking,
Quote I have read much of what you post and see you as a person who is a woman after God's own heart.
Wow, I really appreciate this! I certainly have spent the majority of my life worshipping God, and loving His Word. I do want more than anything to understand Him, and to know Him.Quote I am convinced that seeking knowledge thinking it would lead me to God hurt me often…. Paul wrote, 1Cor.8:1 ” “knowledge” puffs up, but love builds up.” What to do with the Bible? May I suggest – spend your time discovering God's love for you. Receive it, accept it, own it. All the knowledge on all these posts cannot hold a candle to knowing His love.
You've raised a very good point, that knowledge does tend to “puff up” those who believe they have it. I have wondered if I would rather have the answers, or be one who just loves everyone and trusts in grace to see me through. Perhaps I should strive for love and grace over knowledge? Thank you for bringing this up, somehow it helps me to put things into perspective a bit.Quote I too am praying for you. You will return stronger than ever.
Thank you so much! I truly appreciate your love and encouragement.Love,
MandyQuote (kerwin @ Feb. 27 2009,10:34) I do not know what Nick means nor can I really state you are an unbeliever, as far as a strict definition is concerned, because what you are doing is judging and condemning God because he does not enable evil behavior like you do and have been taught to do.
You are wrong Kerwin.
Unless you too bow down to the book as if it were God, then you can not say that I am judging and condemning God.I have been judging the bible for judging and condemning God.
Do not continue to say that I am judging God.I am not judging God.
I am not judging God.
I am not judging God.I guess that no matter how many times I say that, I will never be able to make it clear to the people that worship the bible as if it were God.
Tim
Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 27 2009,10:34) First you are incorrect since God did not create us as slaves to sin. We are slaves to sin because Adam and Eve chose to sin without considering the effect that sin had on their descendents.
Hi Kerwin,This is a whole other story, but why would you believe that God had no idea what exactly Adam and Eve would do with the tree that He stuck in the middle of Eden?
Do you judge God ignorant? Of course you do not.
If He already knew the outcome, and did it anyway, then it was all part of his plan.Tim
Not3in1,Feb. wrote:[/quote]
Quote Hi Seeking, I have read much of what you post and see you as a person who is a woman after God's own heart.
Wow, I really appreciate this! .Mandy,
You have lifted my spirits! Actually, a man, but striving to be a person after God's own heart. I pray this has been your experience as it is my only intent –
Pro 27:9 Oil and perfume make the heart glad, and the sweetness of a friend comes from his earnest counsel.
Quote I have wondered if I would rather have the answers, or be one who just loves everyone and trusts in grace to see me through. Mandy,
There seems to be no greater place, other than the word, than these forums to see the result of pursuing knowledge
and neglecting love and grace.These passages hold much meaning for me –
If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.
Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
Love never fails. (1C0r.13:1-8)
It's not “mushy love” that falls for everything but, but rather,
a new discernment that enables us to see through ourselves and others. If you sense a lack of love, Biblical love, RUN!It is so easy to get caught up and impressed with what seems to be so much knowledge and apparent depth of understanding. It creates a sense of awe but, in the long run, only confuses and entraps into the latest philosophy.
I tell you this so that no one may deceive you by fine-sounding arguments. Col.2:4This has become the bottom line for me at this point in my walk with our Lord –
Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. iJn.4:8 NIV)
Sometimes I don't understand His ways – what He is doing or why. Why He does what He does or did what He did. My faith falters and then I remember, GOD IS LOVE!
Marty, God is blessing us! Stay in His love – He will not leave you or forsake you!!!
With His love,
Seeking
Quote (Not3in1 @ Feb. 27 2009,17:42) Hi Seeking, Quote I have read much of what you post and see you as a person who is a woman after God's own heart.
Wow, I really appreciate this! I certainly have spent the majority of my life worshipping God, and loving His Word. I do want more than anything to understand Him, and to know Him.Quote I am convinced that seeking knowledge thinking it would lead me to God hurt me often…. Paul wrote, 1Cor.8:1 ” “knowledge” puffs up, but love builds up.” What to do with the Bible? May I suggest – spend your time discovering God's love for you. Receive it, accept it, own it. All the knowledge on all these posts cannot hold a candle to knowing His love.
You've raised a very good point, that knowledge does tend to “puff up” those who believe they have it. I have wondered if I would rather have the answers, or be one who just loves everyone and trusts in grace to see me through. Perhaps I should strive for love and grace over knowledge? Thank you for bringing this up, somehow it helps me to put things into perspective a bit.Quote I too am praying for you. You will return stronger than ever.
Thank you so much! I truly appreciate your love and encouragement.Love,
Mandy
Mandy let me give you some more “TRUTH”The bible tells people to rely on “Faith” when it CAN”T provide an answer to a question…notice the bibles defintion of faith:
“The assured expectation of things hoped for tho not yet beheld”
Translated this means…believing without PROOF…
Then it tells you that “KNOWLEDGE puffs up”….simply put this is malarcky!!!
Knowledge on the other hand “builds up” and “assures” and “comforts”…
Lemme give you an easy to follow example…you are married correct….Well say your husband tells you that he loves you..
then he goes about doing NOTHING to prove it…he just says have “Faith” that I do….or as the bible says “hope for it, tho not beholding it”
Would your “faith” that he loves you be able to sustain you…or would action on his part have to be involved in order to provide you with the “proof” which conversely provides you with the “knowledge” of his love….
be needed to sustain you, and assure you?
(disclaimer: the above example is not about god loving us or not)
Mandy………..Your love and Reliance on God is Known by Him, and is far more important then Scripture Knowledge, “tell me this does He who does miracles among you , do it by (works of Law) or Hearing with Faith”. Mandy God is there and i know in my heart He loves you very much in fact he loves all who are seeking Him, He knows what we know and what we don't . Tim and you are right do not make the Bible your GOD. Those who condemn other based on their limited understanding will reap what they sow, it interesting how they alway condemn other but when it comes to them they reserve all of God mercy , simply hypocrites. God the Father is far greater the the Bible in mercy and saving Power.
love and peace to you and yours……………………………………………….gene
TimothyVI wrote:
Quote Unless you too bow down to the book as if it were God, then you can not say that I am judging and condemning God.
I believe God handed the bible over to the enemy a long time ago and the enemy has corrupted it which is why we have original texts that do not completely agree with one another as well as many different translations at the current time. It does not care since God exists and reveals His truth to those that really seek Him. Still I use the bible as a tool.
Still the discussion is not about the bible but it is about God and His justice which you have determined is unjust. I call that judging but I also said condemning which is only correct if you consider God evil for administrating the justice you disprove of.
TimothyVI wrote:
Quote This is a whole other story, but why would you believe that God had no idea what exactly Adam and Eve would do with the tree that He stuck in the middle of Eden?
Why does it care what God knew since it is the actions of Adam and Eve that are at issue? The government can pass a law knowing that some people will violate that law. Does that make the government responsible for what those who violate the law do? Not in my book. The one who sins is the one who is responsible for their actions though others may suffer for their sin.
TimothyVI wrote:
Quote If He already knew the outcome, and did it anyway, then it was all part of his plan.
It is certainly part of His plan and by that plan some shall be rescued from their slavery to sin and others destroyed and therefore the human race will be perfected. That is why it is wise to strive to be one of those rescued from slavery to sin and not one of those that shows contempt for that rescue that comes through faith in Jesus Christ.
dirtyknections wrote:
Quote Translated this means…believing without PROOF…
What a foolish statement from one who claims to be rational. Are you not aware that everyone lives by faith since the only thing that is provable is that “I think therefore I am“. Anything beyond that is based on assumptions which is to say faith.
So I choose to seek to love my neighbors and myself with knowledge that God will fill me with His love. What do you choose to do?
Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 28 2009,07:36) dirtyknections wrote: Quote Translated this means…believing without PROOF…
What a foolish statement from one who claims to be rational. Are you not aware that everyone lives by faith since the only thing that is provable is that “I think therefore I am“. Anything beyond that is based on assumptions which is to say faith.
So I choose to seek to love my neighbors and myself with knowledge that God will fill me with His love. What do you choose to do?
I love…simple as that…
Ok..lets put this to the test…the bible says that the dead will be resurrected..correct? (no semantics as to specifically who..this is just for discussion)
Have you ever seen this happen? I will go out on a limb and say..NO (i'm not talking about spiritual resurrection, baptising in the spirit, new creation stuff either)
Yet you have faith that this will happen…without having ever seen this? Why? Because the GOD of the bible…says so…
And mind you he didn't say audibly…or in a vision to you… or thru an angelic messenger…but thru a 2000 yr old “book” compiled by apostates (i know you believe different on this) from the way of the savior talked about in the book
Him maybe you should be careful about throwing around the words “foolish” and “rational”
By the way if you truly believed the essence behind the statement “I believe therefore I am” you would know that GOD is much bigger than the one you see thru your lens of religion
DK,
you bring up a good point, one gift would be raising the dead, I sometimes ponder on that myself, do I believe it can happen, most definitly yes, it will be a big Praise and Amen.
you know dk, in that 2000 year old book, by the true and living Yah it states that we are not to eat blood, now we have all the warnings about comsuming under cooked red meat, also science had proven that comsuming blood can lead to disease. Check out the Hebrew scriptures what science has given 'proof' to today, it already had been written 2000 years ago.
much love to you and yours,
olive
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