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Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 23 2010,14:52) Mike………God rules from with in a His (TRUE) Kingdom is within a person. His (TRUE) Subjects are those who have Him Living and ruling (IN) them. As far as His kingdom goes The whole World is under GOD Rule and domain it alway has been From it's very beginning and even Now is. Dan 4:32 And they shall drive you from men, and thy dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field: the shall make thee to eat grass as oxen , and seven times shall pass over you, until you know that , THE MOST HIGH RULES IN THE KINGDOM OF MEN, AND GIVES IT TO WHOM HE WILL.
Dan 4:34…> And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven and mine understanding returned unto me, and i blessed the most High , and I praised and Honored him that lives forever, WHOSE DOMINION IS AN EVERLASTING DOMINION, AND HIS (KINGDOM) IS FROM (GENERATION TO GENERATION).
Dan 4: 35….> And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he does according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?
Mike and David think about this. GOD is even (NOW) Ruling HIS CREATION. Even in what He Allows fore his own reasons , But His true Subject are those who Have HIS HOLY SPIRIT SEED (IN) them they are the childern of the kingdom.. Jesus said it right “THE KINGDOM OF GOD COMES (NOT) WITH OBSERVATION , IT IS WITHIN YOU. He was NOT telling the Pharisees that the kingdom of GOD was (IN) them at all but was simply explaining to them where the Kingdom of GOD rules. IMO
peace and love ………………….gene
Gene,Dan 4:32 proves that God ultimately rules the KINGDOM OF MEN, but that does not make the earth the KINGDOM OF GOD that is foretold to be coming to earth.
Dan 4:34 only says that God's Kingdom is everlasting.
Dan 4:35 only repeats what we learned in 4:32.
It is true that God rules His creations in the kingdom of men from His Kingdom in heaven. It is when the Kingdom of God becomes among us that things will be different. Has God wiped every tear from our faces yet? Are we to the point that we will look for evil but not be able to find it? These are some of the things we have to look forward to if we are chosen to live in New Jerusalem – God's Kingdom.
Why did you choose not to answer a single Scripture I quoted? Here they are again:
Here's just a few verses that make little sense if the Kingdom of God is not an actual physical place.
Matthew 19:24 NIV
Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”Matthew 21:32 NIV
Jesus said to them, “I tell you the truth, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you.How can one “enter” what is inside of them?
Mark 14:25 NIV
“I tell you the truth, I will not drink again of the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it anew in the kingdom of God.”If anyone ever had the kingdom of God inside of them, it was Jesus. Yet if that is all the kingdom is, Mark 14:25 makes no sense. Doesn't it sound like Jesus is talking about a physical place?
Luke 7:28 NIV
I tell you, among those born of women there is no one greater than John; yet the one who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.”How can you have various peoples, some great, some least living inside you?
Luke 13:28 NIV
“There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out.Will some people see the prophets living inside of them, and be thrown out of themselves?
Luke 13:29 NIV
People will come from east and west and north and south, and will take their places at the feast in the kingdom of God.Boy Gene, if you don't feel full from the food of the feast, you sure will from all those people inside of you.
1 Corinthians 15:50 NIV
I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.We are flesh and blood, Gene. How can you say it is inside of you?
And Jesus tells of many signs to let us know when the kingdom of God is near to us in Luke 21.
peace and love,
mikeMike……….First of all (I) did not say the Kingdom of GOD is inside you, Jesus Did so let get that straight. “FOR THE KINGDOM OD GOD COMES (NOT) WITH (OBSERVATIONAL) BECAUSE IT IS WITHIN YOU” , you are not disagreeing with me but Jesus also.
Secondly…………You have partially quoted about the rich man, true Jesus said it is (HARDER) for a Rich man to enter the kingdom of GOD then for a Camel (Arabic rope) to go though the eye of a needle . But lets finish the rest of what was said, Peter said “who then can be saved” (because remember the rich man kept Gods laws and commandments), then Jesus responded “WHAT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR MAN , BUT ALL THING ARE POSSIBLE WITH GOD. Why because God could get inside the man and change his heart and mind and make him a citizen of the Kingdom of GOD.
Mike where have i ever said all the citizens of the Kingdom of GOD are in a Person?. I don't recall saying that. However if You have the Spirit of GOD in You then not only is God (IN) you but Jesus and all the saints are to , because the same (SPIRIT) is working the Same thing in (ALL) of GOD Childern and They posses the Kingdom of GOD. It is (IN) them. Remember a Kingdom is Where someone rules and GOD Rules from the inside out. You and David are focusing on the outside the manifestation of what is to come, but that kingdom is ruled from the (INSIDE) Where GOD LIVES.
Dan 7:18…….> “But the Saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom forever even forever and ever”.
These are the rulers of the Kingdom and they are the Kings and Priest of that kingdom because GOD rules (IN) them and Through Them.
You people are looking at the outward manifestation of that Kingdom, but the truth is GOD Rules from WITHIN a PERSON and There is where HIS (TRUE) KINGDOM and DOMAIN IS.My question to you and David is, Why would you Not believe What Jesus Said concerning the Kingdom of GOD in the first place, trying to change the text to meet you view or forcing the text is not right is it Mike?. Look I know full well that (A) kingdom of Christ and the Saint is coming in the future , but it is GOD that is Ruling (IN) them Who is in control of that Kingdom Just as He is in control of It in his Saints NOW and the Fruits of them reflect that KINGDOM (IN) them. Remember Jesus said GOD is (SPIRIT) and we must worship him in SPIRIT and TRUTH. His domain is NOW and Lives (IN) His Saints.
Mike i Just went through about twenty scriptures i could Post to Prove the Kingdom of GOD already exists, By Jesus' own words. But this one i will leave with you.
Luk 13:18…….”THEN SAID HE, UNTO WHAT IS THE KINGDOM OF GOD LIKE? AND WHERE-UNTO SHALL I RESEMBLE IT? verse 19…..> IT IS LIKE A GRAIN OF MUSTARD SEED, WHICH A MAN TOOK, AND CAST INTO HIS GARDEN; AND IT GREW, AND WAXED A GREAT TREE; AND THE FOWLS OF THE AIR LODGED IN THE BRANCHES OF IT. verse 20…> And again he said Where unto shall i liken the kingdom of God verse 21….> It is like leaven, which a woman took and his in a three measures of meal the the whole was leavened.
That seed started Growing and that leaven started raising the Kingdom of GOD from the time of Jesus even is at work NOW in all who have GOD'S Spirit (IN) Them. Remember the Leaven was sown in the Meal. Not out side of IT. The Seed was sown in the Garden not outside of IT, Mike i maintain the Kingdom of GOD is With in a person and is manifested externally through what he is doing.
You and David are looking for a time when GOD will remove all evil influence from the earth and bind it for a thousand years , and there will be grate peace on the the earth (FOR A THOUSAND YEARS) then utter destruction will again take over when evil is again released on the earth and men turn to evil again. Fire will come down and devour those “happy Kingdom People” because they turn back to the evil that again will be influencing them. The only ones who do not turn to it are the Saints and Jesus, because they are where the true KINGDOM of GOD is RULING and it is (IN) them, but the rest are burned with the FIRE (intense judgement of God) which come down from heaven.
peace and love to you and yours…………………….gene
Hi Gene,
Do you believe there will be a new heavens and a new earth and a New Jerusalem? Do you believe that God will make all things new? Do you believe there will be a time when all the tears are wiped from our faces? Do you believe there will be a time when one will look for evil and not be able to find it because it won't exist? These are all in Scripture.
You said:
Quote Mike i Just went through about twenty scriptures i could Post to Prove the Kingdom of GOD already exists, By Jesus' own words. But this one i will leave with you. Who ever said the Kingdom of God doesn't already exist?
You said:
Quote You and David are looking for a time when GOD will remove all evil influence from the earth and bind it for a thousand years , and there will be grate peace on the the earth (FOR A THOUSAND YEARS) then utter destruction will again take over when evil is again released on the earth and men turn to evil again. Fire will come down and devour those “happy Kingdom People” because they turn back to the evil that again will be influencing them. The only ones who do not turn to it are the Saints and Jesus, because they are where the true KINGDOM of GOD is RULING and it is (IN) them, but the rest are burned with the FIRE (intense judgement of God) which come down from heaven. I think you need to reread Rev. Here is the first part of 21,
1Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
5He who was seated on the throne said, “I am making everything new!”
Thus begins the Kingdom of God on earth. It is the understanding of that Kingdom that rises like leaven and grows like a seed planted inside us. IMO
peace and love,
mikeMike……well sorry then i thought you did not believe hat GOD'S Kingdom now exists, and Yes i do believe GOD will make all thing New AGAIN, and an looking forward for that time to. But you see David thinks that the thousand year Period is that time, the JW'S preach and teach that, and Mesmerize there followers with this teaching. Yes the Kingdom of GOD on the earth started by the Sowing of the Seed of GOD in the hearts and minds of all He calls at this time starting with Jesus and the Apostles and disciples and is continuing to grow even now. I am glad you understand that.
peace and love to you and yours brother…………………….gene
Mike……..Matt 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until NOW the Kingdom of Heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force. Yes Mike and it still does suffer Violence and the apostates have overtaken it with violence, but still there are some who have not yielded and the Kingdom of GOD is in them. “THY KINGDOM COME AND THY (WILL) BE DONE IN EARTH AS IN HEAVEN”, and in some that WILL is still being DONE, and the Kingdom of GOD is (IN) them. IMO
peace and love to you and yours mike……………………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 24 2010,02:52) Mike……..Matt 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until NOW the Kingdom of Heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force. Yes Mike and it still does suffer Violence and the apostates have overtaken it with violence, but still there are some who have not yielded and the Kingdom of GOD is in them. “THY KINGDOM COME AND THY (WILL) BE DONE IN EARTH AS IN HEAVEN”, and in some that WILL is still being DONE, and the Kingdom of GOD is (IN) them. IMO peace and love to you and yours mike……………………gene
Hi Gene,The Kingdom of God being among us is IMO much like the Father and Son making their abode in us. There is a real physical Father and a real physical Son, but they don't really physically live inside of us, as if they are constrained to the inside of a human body, do they?
It is the same with the Kingdom. God, through His Spirit puts thoughts and feelings of Him, His Son and His Kingdom within those of us who believe, but the physical Kingdom is not physically inside of people.
Do we agree, brother?
peace and love,
mikeQuote First of all (I) did not say the Kingdom of GOD is inside you, Jesus Did so let get that straight. “FOR THE KINGDOM OD GOD COMES (NOT) WITH (OBSERVATIONAL) BECAUSE IT IS WITHIN YOU” , you are not disagreeing with me but Jesus also. –Gene
Gene, so you would say the vast majority of Bibles are wrong? There's really only 2 Bibles that translate it that way, and they provide the alternate (correct) translations in the footnotes/margins.
Gene, you are in a bad position:
1. You continue to ignore the vast majority of Bible translations and also ignore the marginal references in the 2 Bibles that support you.
2. You ignore the context. (Jesus was “answering” the “Pharisees” question. How else can that be taken?)
3. You completely ignore the many scriptures that speak of God's kingdom as a real government. They are written in simple language. This is why you must completely ignore them and not even acknowledge their existence.
Given these things, why should others buy what you are proposing?
All you continue to do is mention that God is in all. (Wrong subject matter my friend.) And at the end of many of your posts, you tie a little bow on it, stating that it is because I'm a JW that I believe wrong things. Is that your idea of solid argumentation? Until you at least start acknowledging that 1,2 and 3 exist, why should we buy your down playing of God's kingdom as a real government?
Point #2 does exist:
“But on being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God was coming, he answered them . . .”
“the Pharisees” “asked” Jesus a question. “he answered THEM.”
So, why wouldn't it apply to them, since he was speaking to them, answering their question?
David………..Jesus was answering there question, He never said that they were the one in that kingdom, that is a JW Twist to confuse what Jesus was saying. Jesus was plainly saying to the Pharisee that the KINGDOM OF GOD IS WITHIN A PERSON. What is so hard to understand about that. If you were truly believing all scriptures regarding that fact, then you could easily understand what is written. David You are letting your JW indoctrination influence you understanding, much like the TRINITARIANS do with their false trinity teachings. Why would even think GOD rules externally and not internally in the Hearts and Minds of His subjects. Why do you think Jesus said ” THY KINGDOM COME (how by) THY WILL BEING DONE. and Again we have scripture that says “FOR GOD WORKS IN US BOTH TO (WILL) AND DO OF HIS GOOD PLEASURE”, get the picture God's Will and Kingdom are tied together and that Will he CREATES (IN) us.
David you have a lot of Knowledge of Scriptures , and i find it hard to believe you don't understand this. Start thinking for yourself, come out side those JW's false teaching and connect with GOD the FATHER, and He will show you these things, let nothing come between you and Him and direct you thinking. GOD Teaches us by His Spirit of Truth, you don't not need a organization to pump you up with false teachings, by holding out a carrot like you are special future KINGDOM PEOPLE.
peace and love……………………gene
Mike………God can not be (PHYSICALLY) SEEN, He is SPIRIT, He will never be Physically seen, He lives vicariously (I) his creation. He is the Anointing that Dwelt (IN) Jesus and all Who have his SPIRIT (IN) them. Remember when Jesus said the FATHER who is (IN) Me (HE) doth the works. Mike remember when Jesus said “destory this temple and in three days (I) shall raise it up”, that was GOD the FATHER speaking Through Jesus' Mouth , He considered Jesus a temple he lived in , again “know you not that you are the temples of the living God”. God the Father lives in His Childern BY his Spirit SEED that is in them. Think about it brother.
Peace and love to you and yours…………………..gene
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