- This topic is empty.
- Posts
LUKE 17:21
“neither will people be saying, ‘See here!’ or, ‘There!’ For, look! the kingdom of God IS WITHIN YOU.” (KJ, NIV)(Both the KJ margins and the NIV footnote give alternate translations: (“among you” and “in your midst”)
I have to think the alternate translations are the correct ones. Here's why:
…1. CONTEXT! Read Luke 17:20 and 21. (Not just 21)
(He “answered” the pharisees. His statement was directed towards them. Do you think the kingdom of God is in the hearts of the pharisses? I don't! Jesus called them “hypocrites” and “serpents” and said “how are you to flee from the judgement of Gehenna?” Is God’s kingdom in such ones?..2. MODERN BIBLES translate it “in your midst” or “among you.” (Even KJ and others that have “within you” also have “among you” as an alternate translation in the margins.)
…3. MANY SCRIPTURES SHOW KINGDOM TO BE A GOVERNMENT –dan 2:44; Is 9:6,7; 1 cor 15:24; Rev 1:6; 5:9,10.
I personally find it fascinating how influencial the KJ Bible is. It wouldn't be so bad if people considered the alternate translation of the translators for this one and only verse that people get this idea from.
MODERN BIBLES:
“The kingdom of God is in your midst.” (New World Translation)
“For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst.” (NASB)
“Because God's kingdom is already among you.” (The Message)
“For the Kingdom of God is already among you.[a]” (New Living)
“the kingdom of God is in the midst of you.”[a] (English Standard)
“the kingdom of God is in the midst of you. (Darby Translation)
“the kingdom of God is among you.” (holman)
“God's kingdom is among you.” (New International readers version)
“because the kingdom of God is in your midst.” [a] (todays new international version)
“The kingdom of God is among you” (The New English Bible)
“is in the midst of you.” (The Jerusalem Bible)
“is in the midst of you.” (Revised Standard Version)
“God’s royal majesty is among you.” (The Emphatic Diaglott)
etc.kJ AND NIV FOOTNOTES AND MARGINAL REFERENCES:
“among you” and “in your midst”All these translations make sense, because the king of that kingdom, (Jesus) was right among them, in their midst. No, This holy Kingdom was not in the hearts of the wicked Pharisees. That the kingdom is “within” people is a lie meant to confuse people as to what God's kingdom really is: A Royal Government, with Jesus set up as King.
[[As Nick has thousands of times taken subjects “off topic” I ask that if Nick decides to comment in this thread, he only do so if the post is in some way related to this subject. Every time Nick takes this thread “off subject” I will simply create another duplicate thread. Yes, spamming is against the rules, but so is nagging at people in unrelated ways to the subject. (That's almost a form of spamming in itself, so it's really like breaking two rules.) Nick, being a moderator should be an example in this. Please, Nick, I actually want to discuss this subject. Please, Nick, I do not want to create countless threads on the same subject. Nick, please, this one time, as a favor to me, can you do me that favor, and go by the rules?]]
david
20And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you
When the Holy Ghost came down on the Day of Pentacost is when the Kingdom came to Earth. All those who receive the Holy Ghost are now a part of the Kinddom of God. Without his Spirit you are not part of the Kinddom of God and you will not be raised to new life on the Day of Judgement.
T8…..correct, and it must be in a body in order for a soul to exist. Body + Spirit=Soul. It's just that simple. When a Man dies His thought PARISH He is no longer a (LIVING) SOUL. And will remain that way for ever unless GOD (recreates his body) in some form and supplies it with Spirit, and he then will continue to exist as a SOUL. One of the biggest misunderstanding in religion is not understanding what SPIRIT really is. It is what animates our bodies, without Spirit (intellect) we would cease to exist, and without a Body Spirit is useless. GOD is PURE SPIRIT and is only seen through His creation because He exist (IN) HIS creation. John said no man can see GOD and Jesus said no one has seen GOD, the SON has disclosed or made him known to us. How? by His WORDS (expressed intellect)He has made Himself known through the Prophets and later through His son Jesus. GOD is pure Spirit and live and animates all creation, he is the life of all creation. IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………………………….gene
G,
Where do you get this formula from.
Not from scripture.I thought you knew scripture but you keep teaching from your own stuff.??
The kingdom of God–“within” the Pharisees, or “among” the Pharisees?
Quote Hi David,
The King was among them as he spoke.DANIEL 2:44
““And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite;”ISAIAH 9:6-7
“For there has been a child born to us, there has been a son given to us; and the princely rule will come to be upon his shoulder. And his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace. To the abundance of the princely rule and to peace there will be no end, upon the throne of David and upon his kingdom in order to establish it firmly and to sustain it by means of justice and by means of righteousness, from now on and to time indefinite. The very zeal of Jehovah of armies will do this.”1 CORINTHIANS 15:24
“Next, the end, when he hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power.”REVELATION 1:6
“and he made us to be a kingdom, priests to his God and Father—yes, to him be the glory and the might forever. Amen.”REVELATION 5:9-10
“And they sing a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, because you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought persons for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.””Jesus and his joint heirs (Rom 8:17; James 2:5) of this government make up this kingdom. Nick correctly states that the king, Jesus, was among them, so it could be said that the kingdom was “among” them or “in [their] midst.”
Quote (david @ Aug. 31 2009,09:45) The kingdom of God–“within” the Pharisees, or “among” the Pharisees? Quote Hi David,
The King was among them as he spoke.DANIEL 2:44
““And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite;”ISAIAH 9:6-7
“For there has been a child born to us, there has been a son given to us; and the princely rule will come to be upon his shoulder. And his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace. To the abundance of the princely rule and to peace there will be no end, upon the throne of David and upon his kingdom in order to establish it firmly and to sustain it by means of justice and by means of righteousness, from now on and to time indefinite. The very zeal of Jehovah of armies will do this.”1 CORINTHIANS 15:24
“Next, the end, when he hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power.”REVELATION 1:6
“and he made us to be a kingdom, priests to his God and Father—yes, to him be the glory and the might forever. Amen.”REVELATION 5:9-10
“And they sing a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, because you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought persons for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.””Jesus and his joint heirs (Rom 8:17; James 2:5) of this government make up this kingdom. Nick correctly states that the king, Jesus, was among them, so it could be said that the kingdom was “among” them or “in [their] midst.”
davidi have but one question ,all you verses you are quoting;
what do they have in common??
Quote (Gene @ Aug. 31 2009,02:49) T8…..correct, and it must be in a body in order for a soul to exist. Body + Spirit=Soul. It's just that simple. When a Man dies His thought PARISH He is no longer a (LIVING) SOUL. And will remain that way for ever unless GOD (recreates his body) in some form and supplies it with Spirit, and he then will continue to exist as a SOUL. One of the biggest misunderstanding in religion is not understanding what SPIRIT really is. It is what animates our bodies, without Spirit (intellect) we would cease to exist, and without a Body Spirit is useless. GOD is PURE SPIRIT and is only seen through His creation because He exist (IN) HIS creation. John said no man can see GOD and Jesus said no one has seen GOD, the SON has disclosed or made him known to us. How? by His WORDS (expressed intellect)He has made Himself known through the Prophets and later through His son Jesus. GOD is pure Spirit and live and animates all creation, he is the life of all creation. IMO peace and love to you and yours………………………………….gene
geneif you have a body or not ,make no difference,if God removes his spirit of live to you ,you are dead.
so the reverse is also true,if you do not have a body but if God does not remove his spirit of live from you ,then you will stay alive with or without body.
terricca……….A Soul can not exist without a BODY with Spirit (IN) it. The problem here is you are not thinking who the YOU IS. YOU are a SOUL, and A SOUL Must have a Body with Spirit (IN) IT. Then you have a YOU> Jesus has a BODY the one He was raised with and when into heaven with is the exact same one that will return back to earth , except it can never die. The same will be with US also. IMO
peace and love………….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 13 2010,03:02) terricca……….A Soul can not exist without a BODY with Spirit (IN) it. The problem here is you are not thinking who the YOU IS. YOU are a SOUL, and A SOUL Must have a Body with Spirit (IN) IT. Then you have a YOU> Jesus has a BODY the one He was raised with and when into heaven with is the exact same one that will return back to earth , except it can never die. The same will be with US also. IMO peace and love………….gene
genethats live as you know it ,it seems you do not know God and Christ.
Terraricca………If you KNOW differently PLEASE POST it (from) scriptures. Otherwise why make another assumption with no scripture support. If a body is not required to be a SOUL them why even have a resurrection at all. You are believing the teachings of MYSTERY Religion, they believe when you die you go off floating in the air as a “Spirit” Being of some kind. But scripture Shows no such thing exists and say when a man dies His thoughts Parishes He is dead and ceases to function as a being of any kind.
peace and love………………..gene
Quote (terraricca @ April 13 2010,01:10) Quote (david @ Aug. 31 2009,09:45) The kingdom of God–“within” the Pharisees, or “among” the Pharisees? Quote Hi David,
The King was among them as he spoke.DANIEL 2:44
““And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite;”ISAIAH 9:6-7
“For there has been a child born to us, there has been a son given to us; and the princely rule will come to be upon his shoulder. And his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace. To the abundance of the princely rule and to peace there will be no end, upon the throne of David and upon his kingdom in order to establish it firmly and to sustain it by means of justice and by means of righteousness, from now on and to time indefinite. The very zeal of Jehovah of armies will do this.”1 CORINTHIANS 15:24
“Next, the end, when he hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power.”REVELATION 1:6
“and he made us to be a kingdom, priests to his God and Father—yes, to him be the glory and the might forever. Amen.”REVELATION 5:9-10
“And they sing a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, because you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought persons for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.””Jesus and his joint heirs (Rom 8:17; James 2:5) of this government make up this kingdom. Nick correctly states that the king, Jesus, was among them, so it could be said that the kingdom was “among” them or “in [their] midst.”
davidi have but one question ,all you verses you are quoting;
what do they have in common??
They show the kingdom to be a government made up of people.These verses also show that this kingdom will be on the earth forever. Read Psalm 37, and look at the number of references to the inheritance destined for those who have lived godly lives (sometimes it says “land”; sometimes it says “earth” and the “forever” flavor is laced throughout.
Jesus said that the meek would “inherit the earth” in the Beatitudes of Matthew 5. Jesus also said the following in Luke 22:28, 29:
“You are they which have continued with me in my temptations. And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father has appointed unto me; That you may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.”
And why wouldn't this same truth also apply to faithful Christians today who “continue with him”. The whole idea of the believer's everlasting rest being in heaven is unscriptural IMO.
gl td
you right ;And why wouldn't this same truth also apply to faithful Christians today who “continue with him”. The whole idea of the believer's everlasting rest being in heaven is unscriptural IMO
not only faithful also righteous in truth.
Quote (david @ Aug. 30 2009,08:44) LUKE 17:21
“neither will people be saying, ‘See here!’ or, ‘There!’ For, look! the kingdom of God IS WITHIN YOU.” (KJ, NIV)(Both the KJ margins and the NIV footnote give alternate translations: (“among you” and “in your midst”)
I have to think the alternate translations are the correct ones. Here's why:
…1. CONTEXT! Read Luke 17:20 and 21. (Not just 21)
(He “answered” the pharisees. His statement was directed towards them. Do you think the kingdom of God is in the hearts of the pharisses? I don't! Jesus called them “hypocrites” and “serpents” and said “how are you to flee from the judgement of Gehenna?” Is God’s kingdom in such ones?..2. MODERN BIBLES translate it “in your midst” or “among you.” (Even KJ and others that have “within you” also have “among you” as an alternate translation in the margins.)
…3. MANY SCRIPTURES SHOW KINGDOM TO BE A GOVERNMENT –dan 2:44; Is 9:6,7; 1 cor 15:24; Rev 1:6; 5:9,10.
I personally find it fascinating how influencial the KJ Bible is. It wouldn't be so bad if people considered the alternate translation of the translators for this one and only verse that people get this idea from.
MODERN BIBLES:
“The kingdom of God is in your midst.” (New World Translation)
“For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst.” (NASB)
“Because God's kingdom is already among you.” (The Message)
“For the Kingdom of God is already among you.[a]” (New Living)
“the kingdom of God is in the midst of you.”[a] (English Standard)
“the kingdom of God is in the midst of you. (Darby Translation)
“the kingdom of God is among you.” (holman)
“God's kingdom is among you.” (New International readers version)
“because the kingdom of God is in your midst.” [a] (todays new international version)
“The kingdom of God is among you” (The New English Bible)
“is in the midst of you.” (The Jerusalem Bible)
“is in the midst of you.” (Revised Standard Version)
“God’s royal majesty is among you.” (The Emphatic Diaglott)
etc.kJ AND NIV FOOTNOTES AND MARGINAL REFERENCES:
“among you” and “in your midst”All these translations make sense, because the king of that kingdom, (Jesus) was right among them, in their midst. No, This holy Kingdom was not in the hearts of the wicked Pharisees. That the kingdom is “within” people is a lie meant to confuse people as to what God's kingdom really is: A Royal Government, with Jesus set up as King.
[[As Nick has thousands of times taken subjects “off topic” I ask that if Nick decides to comment in this thread, he only do so if the post is in some way related to this subject. Every time Nick takes this thread “off subject” I will simply create another duplicate thread. Yes, spamming is against the rules, but so is nagging at people in unrelated ways to the subject. (That's almost a form of spamming in itself, so it's really like breaking two rules.) Nick, being a moderator should be an example in this. Please, Nick, I actually want to discuss this subject. Please, Nick, I do not want to create countless threads on the same subject. Nick, please, this one time, as a favor to me, can you do me that favor, and go by the rules?]]
david
Hi David,How does this verse fit into your scheme…
John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not,
neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. (Click here)God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ April 29 2010,17:37) Quote (david @ Aug. 30 2009,08:44) LUKE 17:21
“neither will people be saying, ‘See here!’ or, ‘There!’ For, look! the kingdom of God IS WITHIN YOU.” (KJ, NIV)(Both the KJ margins and the NIV footnote give alternate translations: (“among you” and “in your midst”)
I have to think the alternate translations are the correct ones. Here's why:
…1. CONTEXT! Read Luke 17:20 and 21. (Not just 21)
(He “answered” the pharisees. His statement was directed towards them. Do you think the kingdom of God is in the hearts of the pharisses? I don't! Jesus called them “hypocrites” and “serpents” and said “how are you to flee from the judgement of Gehenna?” Is God’s kingdom in such ones?..2. MODERN BIBLES translate it “in your midst” or “among you.” (Even KJ and others that have “within you” also have “among you” as an alternate translation in the margins.)
…3. MANY SCRIPTURES SHOW KINGDOM TO BE A GOVERNMENT –dan 2:44; Is 9:6,7; 1 cor 15:24; Rev 1:6; 5:9,10.
I personally find it fascinating how influencial the KJ Bible is. It wouldn't be so bad if people considered the alternate translation of the translators for this one and only verse that people get this idea from.
MODERN BIBLES:
“The kingdom of God is in your midst.” (New World Translation)
“For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst.” (NASB)
“Because God's kingdom is already among you.” (The Message)
“For the Kingdom of God is already among you.[a]” (New Living)
“the kingdom of God is in the midst of you.”[a] (English Standard)
“the kingdom of God is in the midst of you. (Darby Translation)
“the kingdom of God is among you.” (holman)
“God's kingdom is among you.” (New International readers version)
“because the kingdom of God is in your midst.” [a] (todays new international version)
“The kingdom of God is among you” (The New English Bible)
“is in the midst of you.” (The Jerusalem Bible)
“is in the midst of you.” (Revised Standard Version)
“God’s royal majesty is among you.” (The Emphatic Diaglott)
etc.kJ AND NIV FOOTNOTES AND MARGINAL REFERENCES:
“among you” and “in your midst”All these translations make sense, because the king of that kingdom, (Jesus) was right among them, in their midst. No, This holy Kingdom was not in the hearts of the wicked Pharisees. That the kingdom is “within” people is a lie meant to confuse people as to what God's kingdom really is: A Royal Government, with Jesus set up as King.
[[As Nick has thousands of times taken subjects “off topic” I ask that if Nick decides to comment in this thread, he only do so if the post is in some way related to this subject. Every time Nick takes this thread “off subject” I will simply create another duplicate thread. Yes, spamming is against the rules, but so is nagging at people in unrelated ways to the subject. (That's almost a form of spamming in itself, so it's really like breaking two rules.) Nick, being a moderator should be an example in this. Please, Nick, I actually want to discuss this subject. Please, Nick, I do not want to create countless threads on the same subject. Nick, please, this one time, as a favor to me, can you do me that favor, and go by the rules?]]
david
Hi David,How does this verse fit into your scheme…
John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not,
neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. (Click here)God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Hi Ed. Several people have quoted this scripture with reference to this subject.I'm not sure why. This subject is: The KINGDOM “of” God, and whether it is “in” someone or whether it's a government made up of people.
Many scriptures speak of the kingdom being a government made up of people.
The scripture you quoted says that “for HE dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.” This scripture is not speaking about God's Kingdom.
As a side point, the “he” could actually be “it,” as in “the spirit.”
(Gr., au·to′, neuter) refers to “the spirit” (to pneu′ma, neuter).But regardless, this scripture is not speaking of the Kingdom being inside someone, is it?
Question: Do the scriptures I quoted point to God's kingdom as being a government?
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
