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David……..A kingdom consists of subject under the influence of a King, GOD is a KING and His Kingdom is In the heart and minds of his subjects, ” the kingdom of God comes without (OBSERVATION) for it is within you)”. GOD IS SPIRIT and HIS KINGDOM IS A SPIRITUAL KINGDOM DAVID. It existed even at the time of Jesus and still does NOW on the earth through His disciples. Haven't you read where Jesus said the kingdom of GOD has come near unto you. You JW's make a religion out of your Kingdom preaching and the name Jehovah. But scripture plainly shows the Kingdom of GOD is a SPIRITUAL Kingdom, both now and in the future. David I realize it can feel good to belong to the “INSIDE” Group, but be careful it is full of deceptions. Don't let feeling good as the “INSIDE GROUP” fool you into believing they have the “TRUTH” Brother. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………..gene
Quote It existed even at the time of Jesus and still does NOW on the earth through His disciples. Gene, do you pray for God's kingdom to come? And if so, what are you praying for? And why do you pray this?
Quote But scripture plainly shows the Kingdom of GOD is a SPIRITUAL Kingdom
It is a “heavenly kingdom” as the Bible says, but as I've pointed out and has been largely ignored, the Bible also repeatedly indicates that it's a government made up of people.You mention the word “truth.” The truth is that the only Bibles that translates it that way, give alternate renderings in the footnotes, renderings that agree with what I'm saying and that agree with every other Bible on the planet. Why do you reject that and the whole of scripture? Why do you like this idea so much, that the kingdom is inside of you, when the Bible plainly and repeatedly says it is made up of people, that it is a government? You can metaphorically and poetically say all day that these people are inside of you, in your heart, but of course, they are really not. You can say your wife is in your heart, but of course, literally, she is a person, who is quite outside of your heart. It's nice to say things like it's “in my heart” but let's get back to what the Bible actually says.
David………..You brought up a good point , You ask If i Prayed for God'S Kingdom to Come which you believe is a future even, But you forgot the rest of the verse, Lets look at it. “Thy kingdom come , THY WILL BE DONE, in earth as in Heaven. Now with that in mind, that is, (THY WILL BE DONE) Now Let me quote you some more, “FOR HE (GOD) WORKS IN US (BOTH) TO (WILL) AND DO OF HIS GOOD PLEASURE” , do you get the connection here, GOD'S Kingdom is His (WILL) working in Us Through His SPIRIT in US. Think about it.
peace and love to you and yours……………………gene
I have thought about it. You didn't actually answer my question. Let's put some scriptures together.
“They kingdom come , THY WILL BE DONE, in earth as in Heaven.”
It is God's kingdom (a government) that will bring about his will on earth. Suffering, death, war, poverty, etc, are not God's will, and they are things that human govenrnments cannot solve.
DANIEL 2:44
““And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite;”Would the replacing of human kingdoms with God's kingdom bring about his will on earth, that we are to pray for?
The Bible speaks of people making up the kingdom. And here in Daniel, we are told he will set up this kingdom, and that unlike human governments, it won't be passed on to other people.Quote It existed even at the time of Jesus and still does NOW on the earth through His disciples.
Gene, how does your idea about this kingdom fit in with scriptures like Daniel 2:44? For me, it fits perfectly with the fact that we are to pray for a time when this kingdom brings about God's will of peace on earth, as in heaven.David…….God will indeed Set up (A) Kingdom (the Kingdom of Christ Jesus) ON EARTH. “Who soever overcomes even as if Have and am sit down with my Father in (HIS) Kingdom I will also grant to Sit with Me in (MY) Kingdom”, The kingdom of Christ Jesus and the Saints is not the Kingdom of GOD the FATHER, That is not to say the seven spirits of GOD are not in control of Christs Kingdom though, Jesus' Kingdom will be turned over to GOD the FATHER at the end of His reign as King with the Saints. Why? 'THAT GOD MAY BE ALL (IN) ALL and THROUGH ALL, DAVID I maintain that the kingdom OF GOD IS WITHIN A PERSON, and there He rules in their hearts and minds. it is (NOT) a Physical Kingdom but a Spiritual ONE. He rules from the inside out brother. What is being manifested in the World is only a manifestation of what is within. It is GOD or the CHRISTOS (anointing) in you which is the Hope of GLORY, God lives vicariously (IN) and THROUGH His CREATION.
David the Kingdom of GOD comes without Observation is a right Statement. We can not now or ever will physically see GOD he is SPIRIT, and inhabits His creation. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………..gene
David ….I want to mention something else < you said WE are to pray for a time the Kingdom brings about Gods Will and Peace on the earth. That time is Not in the 1000 yrs reign of Jesus and the Saints, but After that Period of time When Jesus turn His Kingdom over to GOD the FATHER. The only reason there is Peace on the earth at the time of Jesus and the Saints reign, is because GOD Has removed Evil from the earth, from Man and even from animals, their natures will all be changed as a result. But at the end of that times The evil will be released and Man and Animals will once again turn violent and come against Jesus and the Saints at Jerusalem, as the bible say they will and fire will come down from heave and devour them. Then God the FATHER will take over and HIS KINGDOMS WILL will be done. AS it is said "BEHOLD I (GOD) MAKE (ALL) THINGS (NEW). IMO
peace and love to you and yours David…………………………gene
Hi all,
I agree with David that the kingdom of God is a physical kingdom. IMO, it exists in heaven right now, and will later be brought to earth in the form of New Jerusalem. That is why we pray for His kingdom to come (to earth) and His will to be done on earth – as it already is done in heaven.
If it only exists inside of those who are righteous and faithful followers of Christ, then how do we explain Matthew 12:28?
28 But if it is by means of God’s spirit that I expel the demons, the kingdom of God has really overtaken YOU.
Jesus said this to the Pharisees who had just accused him of expelling demons by means of Beelzebub. Was he saying to those Pharisees that God's kingdom was dwelling inside of them? Seems unlikely to me.
peace and love,
mikeMikeboll4……….Do you realize what you just quoted, “28….> But it it si by means of God's Spirit that I expel the demons, (Notice Now) the Kingdom of GOD has really overtaken you. Get it, Jesus had the kingdom of GOD at work in Him, and that power was Being shown to them. The Kingdom of GOD is Within a person, it is not visible from the outside except for the fruits it produces in the individuals life. AS it did Jesus and the Apostles. “For the kingdom of God comes not with observation, but is with in you”. God works from the (INSIDE) of a Person there is where He rules in the heart and minds of His Childern. Mike remember GOD is SPIRIT, Spirit is (NOT) Physical or seen.
peace and love to you and yours………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 12 2010,13:25) Mikeboll4……….Do you realize what you just quoted, “28….> But it it si by means of God's Spirit that I expel the demons, (Notice Now) the Kingdom of GOD has really overtaken you. Get it, Jesus had the kingdom of GOD at work in Him, and that power was Being shown to them. The Kingdom of GOD is Within a person, it is not visible from the outside except for the fruits it produces in the individuals life. AS it did Jesus and the Apostles. “For the kingdom of God comes not with observation, but is with in you”. God works from the (INSIDE) of a Person there is where He rules in the heart and minds of His Childern. Mike remember GOD is SPIRIT, Spirit is (NOT) Physical or seen. peace and love to you and yours………………..gene
gene
in Mat 12;28
what Jesus really says to the pharisees is ;if you recognize that what i do is by the spirit of God then the kingdom as come to you,because this recognition would be a understanding equal to Peter recognizing Christ as the son of the living God,
understand that the kingdom start with the king,then is people,
Christ came to show how to become citizen of that kingdom,
and either we support the kingdom or we do not .if we do we obey the king and his leaders (apostles)the scriptures.we will make the changes in our lives what scriptures teaches,not because they are good things to do but because we love justice,because we love God and his King ,and want to be in that kingdom,and for all of that, we live as strangers in this world between the enemies of that kingdom.
we suffer and do not find peace,our blessings are to come.
Quote “For the kingdom of God comes not with observation, but is with in you”. –Gene.
Gene, what does the footnote say? Without even knowing which of the 2 Bible's you're quoting from, I'll tell you. It says: “or, 'among you.'” or something to that effect. The rest all read similarly, in the main text.
Add in all the other scritpures that speak of the kingdom being a government and we have to conclude that it is a government.
All your spiritual talk that you are trying to insert into what God's kingdom is, just ignores these other facts.
David………First the foot notes you speak of shows that what i am saying is true if it say the kingdom of God is AMONG you what does that mean? Does it not mean that the Kingdom of GOD was there and indeed it was it was (IN) Christ Jesus as well as in the apostles after they recieved the Spirit of GOD into them. God's Kingdom is a (SPIRITUAL) Kingdom He rules from within and the Physical outside is only a manifestation of what is going on inside a person. JW's look at when the lions and the lambs natures are changed and evil is removed from the earth as the Kingdom of GOD, When in fact those People (all )fail at the end of the reign of Christ and the Saints when evil is released on the earth again. The true Kingdom of GOD comes when GOD Himself receives the Kingdom of Christ and the Saints at the end of the Millennium reign. The only ones ho were truly ruled by GOD in the Millennium is Jesus and the SAINTS because they have the (SPIRIT of GOD) (IN) then and therefore GOD is Ruling in their lives.
David what does this mean to you “THAT GOD MAY BE IN ALL AND (THROUGH) ALL”. When that happens then the Kingdom of GOD will truly exist in (ALL). You cannot separate GOD'S Spirit from his Kingdom, God rules from the inside out. Is is a SPIRITUAL KINGDOM, The Physical is only a manifestation of what is going on INSIDE a PERSON. “The kingdom of GOD does not come with observation (physical appearance) But is within you”. These are both true and faithful words as written. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………gene
Quote (terraricca @ May 12 2010,14:15) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 12 2010,13:25) Mikeboll4……….Do you realize what you just quoted, “28….> But it it si by means of God's Spirit that I expel the demons, (Notice Now) the Kingdom of GOD has really overtaken you. Get it, Jesus had the kingdom of GOD at work in Him, and that power was Being shown to them. The Kingdom of GOD is Within a person, it is not visible from the outside except for the fruits it produces in the individuals life. AS it did Jesus and the Apostles. “For the kingdom of God comes not with observation, but is with in you”. God works from the (INSIDE) of a Person there is where He rules in the heart and minds of His Childern. Mike remember GOD is SPIRIT, Spirit is (NOT) Physical or seen. peace and love to you and yours………………..gene
gene
in Mat 12;28
what Jesus really says to the pharisees is ;if you recognize that what i do is by the spirit of God then the kingdom as come to you,because this recognition would be a understanding equal to Peter recognizing Christ as the son of the living God,
understand that the kingdom start with the king,then is people,
Christ came to show how to become citizen of that kingdom,
and either we support the kingdom or we do not .if we do we obey the king and his leaders (apostles)the scriptures.we will make the changes in our lives what scriptures teaches,not because they are good things to do but because we love justice,because we love God and his King ,and want to be in that kingdom,and for all of that, we live as strangers in this world between the enemies of that kingdom.
we suffer and do not find peace,our blessings are to come.
Teraricca……….Again you make it mans power and leaving GOD the Father completely out of the picture, Don't you understand yet , We are (CREATED) unto good works. The Kingdom of GOD is within and is not physically seen except for the manifestation of what is going on inside a person by the Spirit of GOD operating within him. All who have the Spirit of GOD and Jesus operating (IN) them are citizens of the Kingdom of GOD (NOW). GOD rules within his Childern.Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 13 2010,02:36) Quote (terraricca @ May 12 2010,14:15) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 12 2010,13:25) Mikeboll4……….Do you realize what you just quoted, “28….> But it it si by means of God's Spirit that I expel the demons, (Notice Now) the Kingdom of GOD has really overtaken you. Get it, Jesus had the kingdom of GOD at work in Him, and that power was Being shown to them. The Kingdom of GOD is Within a person, it is not visible from the outside except for the fruits it produces in the individuals life. AS it did Jesus and the Apostles. “For the kingdom of God comes not with observation, but is with in you”. God works from the (INSIDE) of a Person there is where He rules in the heart and minds of His Childern. Mike remember GOD is SPIRIT, Spirit is (NOT) Physical or seen. peace and love to you and yours………………..gene
gene
in Mat 12;28
what Jesus really says to the pharisees is ;if you recognize that what i do is by the spirit of God then the kingdom as come to you,because this recognition would be a understanding equal to Peter recognizing Christ as the son of the living God,
understand that the kingdom start with the king,then is people,
Christ came to show how to become citizen of that kingdom,
and either we support the kingdom or we do not .if we do we obey the king and his leaders (apostles)the scriptures.we will make the changes in our lives what scriptures teaches,not because they are good things to do but because we love justice,because we love God and his King ,and want to be in that kingdom,and for all of that, we live as strangers in this world between the enemies of that kingdom.
we suffer and do not find peace,our blessings are to come.
Teraricca……….Again you make it mans power and leaving GOD the Father completely out of the picture, Don't you understand yet , We are (CREATED) unto good works. The Kingdom of GOD is within and is not physically seen except for the manifestation of what is going on inside a person by the Spirit of GOD operating within him. All who have the Spirit of GOD and Jesus operating (IN) them are citizens of the Kingdom of GOD (NOW). GOD rules within his Childern.
genethe kingdom is in you only if you become a citizen of that kingdom and you produce the fruits of that kingdom.
if not you belong to the world.
Terraricca………….Where have i said any different then that ?. Those who have Gods Spirit (INTELLECT) do produce the fruits of the Spirit. All who have the Spirit of GOD in them (ARE) Citizens of the Kingdom of GOD. They have been translated into the Kingdom of GOD's dear son Jesus. We are (NOW) the Sons of the Living GOD according to John.
The problem Here is men think they have a greater Power in themselves called, (“FREE WILLS”) then GOD Does, they think they are in control of their salvation and will only agree with GOD if it suites their EGO'S These are all (I) gods who only really trust in themselves and do not truly trust GOD, Nor His Power to Save Them . They are seeking their own glory not the glory which comes from GOD. “Having an appearance of Godliness but denying the POWER THERE OF”. Not understanding That it is GOD who works in them (BOTH To WILL) and do of (HIS) good Pleasure. They think God needs their permission to recreate them and conform them into the image of Christ.The created saying to the Creator ” only if you have my permission can you save me, The are those who profess with the mouth but truly deny the power of GOD. Shall the created say to the Creator you will create me as (I) see Fit? IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 12 2010,13:25) Mikeboll4……….Do you realize what you just quoted, “28….> But it it si by means of God's Spirit that I expel the demons, (Notice Now) the Kingdom of GOD has really overtaken you. Get it, Jesus had the kingdom of GOD at work in Him, and that power was Being shown to them. The Kingdom of GOD is Within a person, it is not visible from the outside except for the fruits it produces in the individuals life. AS it did Jesus and the Apostles. “For the kingdom of God comes not with observation, but is with in you”. God works from the (INSIDE) of a Person there is where He rules in the heart and minds of His Childern. Mike remember GOD is SPIRIT, Spirit is (NOT) Physical or seen. peace and love to you and yours………………..gene
Hi Gene,I hope you are well. You didn't answer my question. I said:
Jesus said this to the Pharisees who had just accused him of expelling demons by means of Beelzebub. Was he saying to those Pharisees that God's kingdom was dwelling inside of them? Seems unlikely to me.
What do you think?
peace and love,
mikeQuote gene the kingdom is in you only if you become a citizen of that kingdom and you produce the fruits of that kingdom.
–Gene.
Well then, this argument is closed. As I have said before and as Mike just asked you:
Was he saying to those Pharisees that God's kingdom was dwelling inside of them?
Apparently, Gene, in your view, the Pharisees to whom Jesus was speaking when he said those words were citizens of the kingdom and produced the fruits of that kingdom.
But wait, didn't Jesus condemn the Pharisees as offsprings of vipers and say Gehenna awaited them because of their actions?
Gene, the Bible is just not with you on this one. You have to ignore what was actually said (in all Bibles but 2, and even the footnotes in them agree with the rest) and also ignore who it was said to, in order to support your belief.
It is like your eyes are closed. How can you reason your way out of what you just said, given who Jesus was speaking to?
Quote David………First the foot notes you speak of shows that what i am saying is true if it say the kingdom of God is AMONG you what does that mean? Since Jesus is the king of that kingdom, what do you think those footnotes in those two Bibles you keep quoting mean?
I know what I think they mean. I think they mean the kingdom was “within their midst” in that the very king of that kingdom stood before them. Jesus as King represents the kingdom.Gene, how would you explain what those footnotes convey?
Quote David what does this mean to you “THAT GOD MAY BE IN ALL AND (THROUGH) ALL” Gene, you continue to misapply Scripture.
I know that is what that scripture said. But this subject is not whether God is in all. It is about the kingdom, as I'm sure you've noticed.Does God = Kingdom in your mind?
It is referred to frequently as God's kingdom, hence God and kingdom are not the same. If the phrase “the kingdom of God” occurs, that means the the kingdom is something that God possesses, and is not God himself.You do understand that we are speaking of God's “kingdom” and not God?
The kingdom of God is eternal life.
Creation, people in hell and everything will perish.
But those who commune with Jesus and The Father will never taste death. They will inherit eternal life.
In the beginning was The Word, The word was with God, The Word was God….The Word was eternal life.
The price for sin is Death…the price for righteousness is life…eternal life.
So when Jesus said The Kingdom of God is within you, you can look at it as eternal life…because all who dwell in the kingdom will have the kingdom.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 13 2010,13:29) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 12 2010,13:25) Mikeboll4……….Do you realize what you just quoted, “28….> But it it si by means of God's Spirit that I expel the demons, (Notice Now) the Kingdom of GOD has really overtaken you. Get it, Jesus had the kingdom of GOD at work in Him, and that power was Being shown to them. The Kingdom of GOD is Within a person, it is not visible from the outside except for the fruits it produces in the individuals life. AS it did Jesus and the Apostles. “For the kingdom of God comes not with observation, but is with in you”. God works from the (INSIDE) of a Person there is where He rules in the heart and minds of His Childern. Mike remember GOD is SPIRIT, Spirit is (NOT) Physical or seen. peace and love to you and yours………………..gene
Hi Gene,I hope you are well. You didn't answer my question. I said:
Jesus said this to the Pharisees who had just accused him of expelling demons by means of Beelzebub. Was he saying to those Pharisees that God's kingdom was dwelling inside of them? Seems unlikely to me.
What do you think?
peace and love,
mike
Mikeboll………..No those Pharisees were not of the Kingdom of GOD I never said that , Jesus was and all who have the Holy Spirit (IN) them are also In the Kingdom of GOD Because GOD rules from the (INSIDE OUT) Not from the outside (IN). The Kingdom of GOD Does NOT come with OBSERVATION it is WITHIN YOU No matter How hard David and other JW'S try to make it appear. We are translated into the Kingdom of God's Dear son Buy the workings of the HOLY SPIRIT. Why would Jesus and the Disciples come Peaching the Kingdom of GOD if it were not Present?One of the Big Pitch for JW'S is to get people to think they are special people who are representing the “True” Kingdom ministry . But they fail to see, that pitch, is to cause then to (feel) Special as a representative of a (Special) Group of (SPECIAL) people. This is their big lock that keeps there members feeling good. Much what Jim Jone's bunch were like until they all drank the Poisoned Kool Aid. Most all religions use the same means of (exclusiveness) to lure there subject into there trap. They preach about the Great “Utopian Kingdom” when the lion and the lamb lie together and everyone is Happy, when they are there in this great time of eternal peace on the earth. Not even realizing that after that thousand year period everything totally fall apart and the whole world turns to corruption again, when evil is released back on the earth.
They are Snake Charmers , charming there People with false hoods, and this does give them great power over there subjects, minds and of course there Pocket books to.
Back to what i was saying before the Kingdom of GOD (IS) within a Person, it comes Just as Jesus said without Observation. GOD the KING is SPIRIT and NO ONE CAN SEE SPIRIT. HIS KINGDOM is a SPIRITUAL KINGDOM. ALL who are Lead by HIS SPIRIT (IN) them are Members of that Kingdom. (NOW as Well as in the FUTURE). Remember the outward manifestation is only What is going on in the (INSIDE). God will take away evil (influence) from the earth and Jesus and the Saints will rule for a thousand years and then Jesus will turn His kingdom over to GOD the FATHER then GOD will BE (ALL) and IN ALL, and so will his Kingdom be. IMO
peace and love to you and your……………………………gene,
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